@Eric Stecker EG What's the status of BadRock?
- Thread starter Kms33kms
- Start date
I haven’t been keeping up with actions lately but isn’t the new Defiance pricing somewhat comparable with everyone else? Or am I wrong here. Seems like 14-1600 is about what actions go for.
I do think price increases are becoming the norm, and some companies (not Defiance) have gotten away with price increases beyond covering cost simply because they can get away with it. Again, NOT saying Defiance is doing that- sounds like a different situation altogether.
I do think price increases are becoming the norm, and some companies (not Defiance) have gotten away with price increases beyond covering cost simply because they can get away with it. Again, NOT saying Defiance is doing that- sounds like a different situation altogether.
The more you type, the deeper it gets.
I'll vote with my consumer dollars accordingly.
Good luck in your new venture!
Well the situation is still not the best but @Eric Stecker EG you have a lot better way of explaining what’s going on and far better consumer relations skills than whoever has been posting from the defiance machine account.
This is a difficult question to answer given the current circumstances. We are getting some cancelations, and some are changing from the previously low-priced Tenacity and anTi to other actions. These changes make it difficult to forecast production.
I can say that in December, Defiance shipped more actions than we have for quite a while. Between increasing output and some cancelations, those who want actions will get them sooner than they would have a few months ago. That's the best I give you today.
If it was in that bad of a financial position to where you need to take that exorbitant of a price increase on day one and price yourself out of an already competitive market, why the hell did they buy it? Either way, there’s going to be enough consumer dollars shifting to other action companies, they are likely going to see elasticity impact their sales volume/revenue/margin.
Tin foil hat time- Then they are gonna go after a barrel maker next and make some shittastic outdoor channel custom hunting rifle. Which in that case would make sense why they took a price increase so that they can free up action capacity via elasticity, and pair it up with McMillan and whatever component manufacturer they buy next. All they are missing now are the tubes to screw on for a 95% rifle (sans trigger).
Tin foil hat time- Then they are gonna go after a barrel maker next and make some shittastic outdoor channel custom hunting rifle. Which in that case would make sense why they took a price increase so that they can free up action capacity via elasticity, and pair it up with McMillan and whatever component manufacturer they buy next. All they are missing now are the tubes to screw on for a 95% rifle (sans trigger).
So defiance went from almost belly up to stable in a month. That was fast. I can tell you problem 1 is the ridiculous amount of action model offerings. Between model, sub model and action size for each there has to be over 100 different things to run. Doesn’t seem remotely necessary. Anti gone rebel gone deviant gone tenacity gone based on new pricing. Keep the anit x, the ruckus get rid of the 3 other ruckus offerings, the outcast what more does one need.
If the Rebel and Deviant didn't exist, I wouldn't own any Defiance actions. I would buy an Outcast if they offered it with a Rebel style bolt handle.
Action cost, nitrided:
ARC Coup de Grace $899
Pierce Engineering $1085
Impact 737 $1390
Kelbly Prometheus $1400
Bighorn TL3 $1400
LP Fuzion $1450
Curtis Valor $1450
Terminus Zeus $1550
Surgeon 591 $1700
Defiance Deviant $1900
I love my defiance actions and their quality is amazing. But, time will tell if people are willing to spend 30-100+ % more than the competition.
ARC Coup de Grace $899
Pierce Engineering $1085
Impact 737 $1390
Kelbly Prometheus $1400
Bighorn TL3 $1400
LP Fuzion $1450
Curtis Valor $1450
Terminus Zeus $1550
Surgeon 591 $1700
Defiance Deviant $1900
I love my defiance actions and their quality is amazing. But, time will tell if people are willing to spend 30-100+ % more than the competition.
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Maybe I overpaid, but I spent +$200 on nitriding my last surgeon action I bought a few years ago. $1500 is for a bare action.
Fixed the price on the TL3. I paid $900 years ago, just looked them up and they are $1400 now
Gotcha. I was ready to buy one right now for $900.
Noted on the Surgeon.
Mack Brothers Evo II Stainless is still listing for $775.
the origin is $900Fixed the price on the TL3. I paid $900 years ago, just looked them up and they are $1400 now
Nope. ARC is still making the most technically advanced actions on the public market for right around $1000.
What does a deviant offer that the ruckus doesn’t. If the deviant name was a staple to the company and they didn’t want to get rid of it why not machine the deviant like the ruckus. The ruckus really should be the new deviant. And what does the rebel offer as well that can’t be had. I really see no reason to have more than like 5 actions.
The Deviant is more customizable than the Ruckus. I think there might be a liability concern pertaining to prefits if they kept the same name. I agree that Defiance has had WAY too many options for the majority of the market, but I can also see that would be a huge benefit for a select few.
Before we had all the details, I had posted that I thought the new pricing structure would have been for direct sales through Defiance, while maintaining reasonable prices through retailers. I figured they could streamline production to a few options, but still offer the customizability for those that wanted to pay a premium......I was WAY off
Nitrided Kelbly Atlas Lite for $1060 looked like a hell of a deal to me
Lots of top tier action options at that price point, or cheaper. Some of the most popular current rifle component makers were born from similar decisions. Defiance has left the door wide open.......
Cheers.
Cheers.
Where did you get it nitrided?
Amazing how many folks have such a hard time believing Glen almost bankrupted another action company. An innovator he is, it’s been proven once again…not the best businessman. Loyalty can sometimes be blind, I guess.
A VC firm owned the majority of the company before the buyout, Glen owned 10%. The VC company wanted out, that's when Mr. Beck seized the opportunity.
What other company did he bankrupt?
Glenn was at Nesika before he started Defiance. But who even sees one their actions around anymore? They were popular in BR scene 2 decades ago.
Yes, he started Nesika and eventually sold it to Dakota Arms. We all know what happened next when Freedom Group (Cerberus) bought them out.
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Can throw BAT in there for under $1900 as well. BAT Vampire is $1864 I believe. Not sure about their other models. They have a base price then get more expensive when you add features.
I let this guy at the range with an Impact try my BAT. I felt sorry for the guy because I actually saw regret sweep over his face after he cycled my action.
That sucks lol. Mine isn’t as smooth as I thought. It’s just an action though. I think holding and cycling it makes it harder to pull smoothly. Also haven’t applied any oil or grease on it either.
Which action are you referring to?
I have the vampire. It isn’t in anything though so I’m assuming that’s why it doesn’t feel smooth.
The one Bat I had would bind a bit if you didn’t manipulate the bolt perfectly. Maybe I had a bad example.
So, now, I am corn-fused. I have seen the thread on Defiance being bought out and the great wailing and gnashing of teeth over the price.
Yet, in another thread, I am getting my ass handed to me on a shaky paper plate over inexpensive rifles that perform well.
So, which is it? Spend the price of a sedan on one rifle? Or not?
Yet, in another thread, I am getting my ass handed to me on a shaky paper plate over inexpensive rifles that perform well.
So, which is it? Spend the price of a sedan on one rifle? Or not?
I haven't tried the Vampire. Mine is a BAT TR from SAC. The bolt will bind if I try to bind it, otherwise it's very smooth. I guess it depends how the actions are spec'd as well. I'd imagine if you tried a BAT benchrest action, it would bind quite easily, but the tactical action I have is nice.
The Impact felt just like my suped up Remington with a PTG bolt, which is a good thing. The most important thing is your gunsmiths knowledge about a particular action. They all benefit from a little work by a good gunsmith.
Are
Personal preference. Do you want the most accurate and reliable rifle at any cost, or are you willing to have something that is just decent for a lot less? If you go to 12 matches and spend $15k-$20k a year on shooting, does it make sense to try to compete with a $800 Savage or a $4000 purpose built laser beam?
I’m as green as it gets and I really don’t have knowledgeable opinion. I just got my first bighorn action and added a Curtis vector to the mix because it was a great deal. But from the average man perspective, trying to get into this world of precision bolt actions, I think Defiance just took them selves out of the running for the majority of people looking to spend their hard earned dollars. With all the great actions out there, especially the ones that can be had for under a grand, ie Bighorn, ARC, etc, and be totally capable of delivering a great rifle. What is the advantage to spending more money on the Defiance, all things being equal? Maybe Defiance has to to stay business. Maybe they just don’t care about the group of customer I fall in. But I know I’ll spend my money elsewhere.
I tell lots of folks coming into the shop who want to start competing or get into long range, what guns do you have now that you could use? If you have one you can use, then start learning with that, it doesn't need to be perfect. Over the time you are learning basics and fundamentals upgrade stocks, triggers, muzzle brake/silencer, optics, etc. Once you get a basic grasp of fundamentals, maybe take a couple classes and shoot some matches. Then maybe you want to get some more performance from your rifle so depending what it is, re-build it. Take your rifle to a competent gunsmith to put a good barrel on it, if needed true the action/lap lugs, bed it into the stock. Now your into a rifle for half or less of a custom rifle out of the gate, you've hopefully built a solid foundation with your stock rifle, plus "you already own it" so why not keep shooting it.
If you're not a 1 moa shooter or better with quality ammo, optic, rifle, etc spending $3k+ won't make you a better shooter, it will just take your platform out of the shooting equation for "what went wrong". You miss you miss, its probably not the rifle. (yes there are exceptions to this, but most shooters can't perform to the capability of their rifle)
"You can't buy skill, you can buy performance enhancers but only if properly employed"
Latest and greatest cartridge or wildcat, expensive rifle, expensive optic, and you miss a target because of shooter error/bad fundamentals you still missed, you just have more money and speed/energy into that miss.
Lots or none?
Isn’t it also aluminum?
Yes
So many keyboard financial experts . Cheap asses probably spend the price of an action on their monthly booze . You guys look so foolish talking this bullshit .
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