Dillon progressive purchase advice needed

reubenski

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Between 2 650's, a 550 and close to 50 toolheads, case feeders, bullet feeder and rt1500's, dies for precision rifle, dies for plinking rifle, powder hopper mods...the list goes on. But when you have a machine dialed in....it just plain runs. I have one dedicated for pistol and one dedicated for rifle and brass processing...just swap toolheads....

Nobody said it was cheap. Hahaha
Ya, I don't mind it. I've been thinking about buying a 750 or 1100 for pure case prep
 
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padom

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    Ya, I don't mind it. I've been thinking about buying a 750 or 1100 for pure case prep

    I've been thinking hard on an 1100 myself for dedicated pistol....I'd then turn my pistol 650 into a dedicated case prep machine and my other 650 would be 5.56/300blk/6.5cm AR loading...

    My son and I ripping through stacks of 30rd mags of 9mm out of the MP5 and AR9 in the pits shooting reactive steel hurts. I now make my son load his own mags so he maybe slows down a tad......hahahah. anything to load 9mm faster in larger qtys
     
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    Ape_Factory

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    Between 2 650's, a 550 and close to 50 toolheads, case feeders, bullet feeder and rt1500's, dies for precision rifle, dies for plinking rifle, powder hopper mods...the list goes on. But when you have a machine dialed in....it just plain runs. I have one dedicated for pistol and one dedicated for rifle and brass processing...just swap toolheads....

    Nobody said it was cheap. Hahaha

    So true. I'm not in that deep yet but I can see it becoming a possibility as I've already considered it, LOL. But for now I'm relatively content. I will say the last 500 or so rounds of 300 blackout went very smoothly and required about 1/16th of the time it would have taken me on a single stage.
     
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    Huskydriver

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    I got a 650 and will get a 2200 dedicated for 223 and 9mm when the time comes
     

    Kra961

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    I thought I'd update this thread periodically, not so much for the more informed amongst us but for those just getting their feet wet or even considering the Dillon 750. I've loaded 9mm and 300 blackout, both supers and subs so far and will be tackling 5.56 and .308 next (if my carbide Dillon 308 sizing die ever arrives).

    I have to admit, initially it was a hot mess. Took a good bit of effort and going through the motions, learning the components and machine, to get things running right and overall I see the Dillon as being very flawed but fixable. I loaded a test run of 20 9mm rounds and everything went well for the most part, except for seating depth. Read on.

    After my initial round of mods, I was getting less than stellar bullet seating depth consistency with 9mm. I ended up converting all my tool heads with the Uniquetek clamping kits (except for the Armanov which comes that way) which helped but also understanding the machine, how it was being loaded when the press was raised and finitely adjusting the main plate screw so there was zero play was the final recipe for success. It's also imperative the station directly across from the seating die be "loaded" with a case otherwise the seating depth will change. Once I did all of that, the seating depth was pretty much spot-on. My initial batch of 20, I had to go back and adjust the seating depth.

    The modifications I made to the Dillon powder dropper worked well with VV N340 powder for 9mm. It was pretty much spot-on as long as I kept my operating stroke consistent. Priming depth was fine, I really almost no issues once I had everything adjusted and running correctly. That isn't to say that mistakes didn't happen and I did have some primer failure to feeds that I didn't catch until I started seeing powder all over the place. Good times. I'm loading normal pressure rounds, not P+.

    The replacement of the detent ball with a plastic ball and all the other little friction reducers did help in the powder spill department overall. Still, smooth is fast. You'll understand when you start operating it for the first time. It's ultimately not a definite fix and if you're not smooth, you'll spill powder. The rest is all about rhythm, overbite be damned.

    Initially the loading table I was using was free-standing. I ended up building a table from scratch and bolting it to the wall. This helped immensely with powder spillage and cartridge consistency.

    Feeling good about the way things were headed, I moved on to 300 blackout. My first round was subsonic, a plinking range load using Berry's and VV N120 for subs. Metered well with the Dillon powder thrower.

    Ultimately 300 Blackout is where the limitations of the Dillon really started to rear their ugly head, most notably with their powder thrower. It literally would not meter H110 consistently throw to throw. H110! I'd get .3 to .4 grain variances no matter what I did. The small powder bar, either the Dillon or the Double Alpha, would not hold enough for a 19.7 grain throw of H110 for one of my loads so I had to use the large bar. But consistency wasn't there so I began using my RCBS Chargemaster to throw powder and it didn't slow me down too much but it was a lot to watch it, primer feed, bullet feed, etc... I then remembered I had the RCBS comp powder thrower and set that up off the machine with the Area 419 funnel. While that worked, it negated the reason I'd purchased the Dillon in the first place. But I made it work and it sped things up a bit.

    The next fly in the ointment was the Mr. Bullet Feeder lite. It does not work with 300 blackout combined with any flat-based bullet as I do not flare my cases (gas gun only). So count on manual bullet insertion while raising the press. Not a biggie, once in a rhythm it went fairly quickly. Trying to find a boat tail 110grain bullet that doesn't break the bank. The Hornady CX is almost double the cost of say the 110 VMAX. I also loaded up a bunch of Speer 125 grain, again, flat base, and they were more difficult than the Hornady VMAX. I'd likely go up a thou or two with a neck mandrel if I continue loading them. They're cheap and very accurate. Sort of a dual purpose plinker/hunting round.

    After loading a bunch of the VMAX and Speers using manual powder drops, I decided to look at a means to adapt the RCBS to the Dillon. I ended up with a new RCBS Uniflow III and the case-activated linkage. I already had the RCBS Competition with the micrometer but I bought into the marketing on the series III. Boy are they right. Spot on for 20 throws. Adapting it to the Dillon and getting it set up was almost effortless in comparison to the Dillon powder dropper. So absolutely FORGET the Dillon powder dropper. Don't invest any time or effort into it, just get the RCBS kit and you'll be happy as long as it isn't an extruded powder. Hoping it works well with the Vihtavouri powders so we'll see. At the very least I can leave the Dillon on the 9mm tool head.

    For stick powder like Varget, we all know the Lee Perfect Powder Measure is wonderful and the Dillon or the RCBS not so much. It's like $30 and throws Varget perfectly in my experience. So I also ended up with the Lee Auto Drum which uses a similar rubber wipe which doesn't cut stick powder and I'm hoping will work well. You'll also need the Lee Precision 90995 powder charging die kit to adapt it to the Dillon. I haven't tried this setup yet as I'm still waiting on my Dillon carbide .308 sizing die to arrive. I fully expect two recently-purchased suppressors to arrive before the die. Lead time for the carbide dies is crazy at this point. I'm using LC brass for the gas gun but PMC for the bolt gun so I might try my luck with the Hornady CC full sized die for those.

    Beyond that, I started priming off the Dillon. I can't fault Dillon for this but it seems the primer pocket depth on LC brass can vary greatly. I did manage to ream all of them but not all were unified. I'll do so the next round of reloading as painful as it is.

    So that's where I'm at at this point. I expect to have much less to no powder spillage with 5.56 and especially 308. I really think it'll shine with 308 if I can get 4046 and Varget to meter well with the Lee. Other than the initial setup and trouble shooting, it has been a big time saver and I've managed to load quite a bit of 9mm and 300 blackout. I'll try to take a few more photos of my setup and add to this post. I'll also try to add more details and experiences as I encounter them.
    One item that I did on my 750 for 223 was to flatten the shell plate using a flat surface in this case a piece of glass and wet/dry 320 paper doing so stopped the plate from tilting when applying pressure, I was never able to get consistent sizing or seating until I did. Sorry to say I gave up on the priming system, one thing that helps is to have a can of air handy to keep clearing the punch of bit’s of brass which seemed to,find their way into it. One thing I was never able to overcome with the priming system was at the end having it throw primers out or turn them sideways no matter how slow I went with it. I’ve moved to hand priming to keep from crushing or losing them on the floor.
     

    99mpower

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    the primers turning sideway issue is more than likely an improperly swaged crimped pocket.

    2-650s and 2-1050s on Ammobot Autodrives. Planning on getting 3-CP 2000s with the new Dillon Automation for pure case prep.

    Same as a few people here, TONS of Dillon equipment. Once you get everything dialed, they are a dream to work with. Requires some messing to start, but once you get it "right" make sure you mark it all and go from there.

    I processed 50k 223 last year, making sure swage is correct, is one of the most critical items for proper progressive loading.
     
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    Ape_Factory

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    One item that I did on my 750 for 223 was to flatten the shell plate using a flat surface in this case a piece of glass and wet/dry 320 paper doing so stopped the plate from tilting when applying pressure, I was never able to get consistent sizing or seating until I did. Sorry to say I gave up on the priming system, one thing that helps is to have a can of air handy to keep clearing the punch of bit’s of brass which seemed to,find their way into it. One thing I was never able to overcome with the priming system was at the end having it throw primers out or turn them sideways no matter how slow I went with it. I’ve moved to hand priming to keep from crushing or losing them on the floor.

    Forgot to mention, I did hone the bottom of all my plates using a special honing "stone" from Japan in 400 grit, wet sanding. Worked quite well but I did this before even loading the first cartridge.

    I've had ok success with the primers. I did do a major f*ck up early on and forgot to put the right-sized tube in the primer feeder. That'll ruin your day. Bottom line, I find the more I use it, the better I get. It's definitely not a set and forget sort of machine. It does take a bit of practice to get that rhythm down and to be able to pay attention to all the various aspects of reloading which are happening at the same time.


     

    Kra961

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    the primers turning sideway issue is more than likely an improperly swaged crimped pocket.

    2-650s and 2-1050s on Ammobot Autodrives. Planning on getting 3-CP 2000s with the new Dillon Automation for pure case prep.

    Same as a few people here, TONS of Dillon equipment. Once you get everything dialed, they are a dream to work with. Requires some messing to start, but once you get it "right" make sure you mark it all and go from there.

    I processed 50k 223 last year, making sure swage is correct, is one of the most critical items for proper progressive loading.
    For me I had gotten to the point of checking each an every primer before it reaches the case to make sure some bit o stupid wasn’t happening with the primer, the other thing is I don’t use swayed brass. And I’ve changed the tip of the storage rod several items to insure that’s not the issue.
     

    simonp

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    I am shopping the same as you. One thing I am looking at is doing two case prep heads.

    First is only a decapping die. Run with a case feeder and just decal as quick as possible. Then wet tumble/sonic/dry clean (whatever your method).

    Second is a size, mandrel, and then trim with the 1500 set up. After this step again your method clean the sizing lube off. Chamfer the case mouths between this and the next,

    Then move into your loading setups. First step would a mandrel. Choose your method. Maybe even load real long range stuff on the old Rock Chucker.

    The power trimmer is a game changer to me. As well as the dragging set up. Have heard spare parts kits are good.

    Am going to go play with a buddy’s that has some experience, we are going to do a caliber change also. Only ever loaded on a single stage.
    I run two 650's (SP and LP) and I follow a similar routine which works out quite well.
     

    99mpower

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    For me I had gotten to the point of checking each an every primer before it reaches the case to make sure some bit o stupid wasn’t happening with the primer, the other thing is I don’t use swayed brass. And I’ve changed the tip of the storage rod several items to insure that’s not the issue.

    if you are not using swaged brass on a 650/750, and not hand sorting out the military brass, that is most likely your problem with the messed up primers
     

    Kra961

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    if you are not using swaged brass on a 650/750, and not hand sorting out the military brass, that is most likely your problem with the messed up primers
    No that means I stopped using military brass some time ago. which has nothing to do with the primer system screwing up. I do hand priming now and plan on moving to a cps when we can again buy it.
     

    reubenski

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    No that means I stopped using military brass some time ago. which has nothing to do with the primer system screwing up. I do hand priming now and plan on moving to a cps when we can again buy it.
    He's agreeing with you
     
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    ICU22250

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    No that means I stopped using military brass some time ago. which has nothing to do with the primer system screwing up. I do hand priming now and plan on moving to a cps when we can again buy it.
    I have two CPS's and love them, that being said, the priming system on the Dillon XL750 Is why I now own a Dillon RL1100, it's so smooth priming, you don't even feel it like with other presses.. The priming system on the 750 was an absolute pain in my ass, I hated it..
     
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    Kra961

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    Forgot to mention, I did hone the bottom of all my plates using a special honing "stone" from Japan in 400 grit, wet sanding. Worked quite well but I did this before even loading the first cartridge.

    I've had ok success with the primers. I did do a major f*ck up early on and forgot to put the right-sized tube in the primer feeder. That'll ruin your day. Bottom line, I find the more I use it, the better I get. It's definitely not a set and forget sort of machine. It does take a bit of practice to get that rhythm down and to be able to pay attention to all the various aspects of reloading which are happening at the same time.


    It shocked me how far out of flat the plate was when I did mine, made a huge difference with seating and sizing not to mention how much better the rotation ran.
     

    Kra961

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    I have two CPS's and love them, that being said, the priming system on the Dillon XL750 Is why I now own a Dillon RL1100, it so smooth priming, you don't even feel it like with other presses.. The priming system on the 750 was an absolute pain in my ass, I hated it..
    I’ll second and third that!
     

    Mike_in_FL

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    I think in all my time of being on this site, this is the first thread that will cause me to save money. After reading through all this I'm just going to get another 550.
     

    padom

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    I think in all my time of being on this site, this is the first thread that will cause me to save money. After reading through all this I'm just going to get another 550.

    Hahahahha..... idk man...if you load pistol, 5.56, 300blk, 308 or 6.5cm in qty nothing like a 650/750/1100......with a case feeder and bullet feeder...just pull the handle
     

    Gustav7

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    Hahahahha..... idk man...if you load pistol, 5.56, 300blk, 308 or 6.5cm in qty nothing like a 650/750/1100......with a case feeder and bullet feeder...just pull the handle

    Exactly. Been shooting a lot more USPSA this year and I finally broke down and just bought my 750. 550 will get moved upstairs for rifle stuff and 750 will be 9mm only for now.

    Am I the only one who hasn’t had issues with the 550/750 priming system? Lol
     
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    reubenski

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    This thread is why I never recommend beginners to progressive presses or beginners to reloading to outright start with a more complicated progressive like a 650 or 750. It is a lot to take in for them. Especially if you are overly analytical and see a "runout" boogeyman behind every part of the press.
     

    jetsurgeon

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    Once I added the AutoDrive to my 650 it's been totally awesome! Wished I would have added the drive years earlier. I couldn't imagine going back to pulling the handle...... I load 9MM, 38/357 Mag, 5.56, 6mm ARC, and 6.5 CM on the 650......
     

    reubenski

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    Once I added the AutoDrive to my 650 it's been totally awesome! Wished I would have added the drive years earlier. I couldn't imagine going back to pulling the handle...... I load 9MM, 38/357 Mag, 5.56, 6mm ARC, and 6.5 CM on the 650......
    I have been trying to talk myself up to buying an auto drive for years. I'm gonna do it one day....
     

    reubenski

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    Do it....Do It!!!! You wont be sorry!!!
    Right now I really want to buy an 1100 and auto drive just for case prep. But everytime I add everything up I think I don't process enough brass to justify it. That I just need to gut it out the half dozen times or so that I need to process a thousand or so cases.

    ..... meanwhile I'm putting off running about 800 pcs of fired and cleaned brass thu the trimmer and swager and I have a match coming up this weekend and have no prepped brass ...
     
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    99mpower

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    This thread is why I never recommend beginners to progressive presses or beginners to reloading to outright start with a more complicated progressive like a 650 or 750. It is a lot to take in for them. Especially if you are overly analytical and see a "runout" boogeyman behind every part of the press.
    about 7 years ago when I first started reloading, I started with a 650. Best thing I've ever done. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, and methodical, almost OCD sometimes. IMHO, im glad I started with a 650/750. Dillon has great instructions, there are a TON of youtube videos, and forums to help. Its not that bad
     
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    reubenski

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    about 7 years ago when I first started reloading, I started with a 650. Best thing I've ever done. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, and methodical, almost OCD sometimes. IMHO, im glad I started with a 650/750. Dillon has great instructions, there are a TON of youtube videos, and forums to help. Its not that bad
    You don't know what you don't know. But at least you're thankful.
     

    ICU22250

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    Exactly. Been shooting a lot more USPSA this year and I finally broke down and just bought my 750. 550 will get moved upstairs for rifle stuff and 750 will be 9mm only for now.

    Am I the only one who hasn’t had issues with the 550/750 priming system? Lol
    I think this is a real possibility.. 😆 I wanna buy another 1100 and dedicate it for 223..
     

    n2ishun

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    Exactly. Been shooting a lot more USPSA this year and I finally broke down and just bought my 750. 550 will get moved upstairs for rifle stuff and 750 will be 9mm only for now.

    Am I the only one who hasn’t had issues with the 550/750 priming system? Lol
    I have never had an issue either.
     
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    ICU22250

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    My problem was it wouldn't pick up primers half the time, I tried multiple times to adjust it and it never helped. So I looked down the primer chute a little closer and it was out of alignment horizontally instead of being short or too long, at that point I was tired of fucking with it and sent it to a new home. I am happy I did because now I have a press I'm happy with..
     

    Mike_in_FL

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    Exactly. Been shooting a lot more USPSA this year and I finally broke down and just bought my 750. 550 will get moved upstairs for rifle stuff and 750 will be 9mm only for now.

    Am I the only one who hasn’t had issues with the 550/750 priming system? Lol
    So many people in this thread talking about the 750 primer system. Has anyone actually called Dillon?

    I had 2 550B's, the 1st was great from day 1. Second was the opposite. Turns out direct from the factory the priming mechanism was installed incorrectly. Guy on the phone at Dillon had me measure it, made an adjustment and it's been fine since.
     

    ICU22250

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    So many people in this thread talking about the 750 primer system. Has anyone actually called Dillon?

    I had 2 550B's, the 1st was great from day 1. Second was the opposite. Turns out direct from the factory the priming mechanism was installed incorrectly. Guy on the phone at Dillon had me measure it, made an adjustment and it's been fine since.
    No need to call Dillon, I fixed the problem, haven't had one since... 🤣
     
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    Ape_Factory

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    This thread is why I never recommend beginners to progressive presses or beginners to reloading to outright start with a more complicated progressive like a 650 or 750. It is a lot to take in for them. Especially if you are overly analytical and see a "runout" boogeyman behind every part of the press.
    Not sure if you're referring to me but I've been loading on a single stage for a few years prior to purchasing the Dillon. Bottom line, for me anyway, is the Dillon does take a bit of tweaking and an understanding of what it wants to deliver consistent results along with making sure all the correct parts are in place for whatever caliber you're loading for. There's lots of little bits to switch out between calibers. But I was swapping out small/large primer bases no problem, making adjustments, etc...for the most part it ran well and I haven't had to tweak much of the stock Dillon components (other than powder-related stuff). The more I use it the faster I get and the fewer stoppages I have. Once I get into a rhythm, it's all good.

    I'd say the the only real disappointment is their powder measure system. I also think they could produce tighter tolerances on things like shell plates and incorporate some aftermarket improvements like locking tool heads and friction reducers. Most of my mods were directed at smoothing out the mechanism to eliminate powder spillage as that was an early "target" for me prior to even loading my first round.

    It seems, at times, that the final cartridge's quality is dependent upon user input, finesse, rhythm, whatever you want to call it. Makes me wonder how automation produces consistent results as it's a machine, no feel. But it really all comes down to setup and consistency.

    The other frustrating aspect is just KNOWING what all was out there in the aftermarket and getting those components to work with one and other spatially. Had I known I could have adapted the RCBS or Lee powder throwers to the Dillon, I would not have put any effort into the stock Dillon powder drop or invested in a DA short powder bar, things of that nature.

    My own primer issues weren't caused by the Dillon but by not unifying all of my brass on 300 blackout. The primer pockets weren't all the same depth as it was mixed LC military brass that I'd swaged. Some of it was reamed which is tedious (as is unifying) but ultimately would have given me better results if I'd done those steps on every piece of brass. Or used non-military brass. When I had 9mm priming issues it was because I forgot to put the damn small primer tube inside the priming tool. Yeah, I did that. Boy did I feel stupid.

    I won't argue that there's a learning curve. There definitely is and I've experienced it first-hand. But happy with the amount of ammo (to my standards) I'm able to produce within a given time frame. Even though the current expenditure is much higher than I had planned for, it's still less expensive than purchasing factory ammo in the same amount I'm able to produce with the components I have on hand.
     
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    CK1.0

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    IMO the biggest issue/weakness with the 750 priming system is that the stupid "primer operating rod" (#10 in attached pic) doesn't always come with the proper amount of bend in it from the factory: if its bend doesn't have enough kick in it, it won't cycle correctly and allow the shuttle that picks up primers to travel all the way back towards the primer magazine (and if it is short-stroking on you, even just a tiny bit, it will cause it to not pick up fresh primers every time).

    Figuring that out was huge. Fix that, along with the usual stuff, and it actually works great. I've fixed 2 other 750's besides mine by just bending that rod a bit more...

    Screen Shot 2022-07-22 at 10.45.15 AM.png
     
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    impactaddict

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    Forgot to mention, I did hone the bottom of all my plates using a special honing "stone" from Japan in 400 grit, wet sanding. Worked quite well but I did this before even loading the first cartridge.

    I've had ok success with the primers. I did do a major f*ck up early on and forgot to put the right-sized tube in the primer feeder. That'll ruin your day. Bottom line, I find the more I use it, the better I get. It's definitely not a set and forget sort of machine. It does take a bit of practice to get that rhythm down and to be able to pay attention to all the various aspects of reloading which are happening at the same time.


    Is honing really necessary on a 750? unlike the 550, a case on the 750 rides in the slot and is not captured between press plate and shell plate. I honed one of my plates but stopped after some consideration to the above fact. I'm not sure what the point would be to hone a shell plate on a 750, please explain.
     

    CK1.0

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    Is honing really necessary on a 750? unlike the 550, a case on the 750 rides in the slot and is not captured between press plate and shell plate. I honed one of my plates but stopped after some consideration to the above fact. I'm not sure what the point would be to hone a shell plate on a 750, please explain.

    IMO, this is a YMMV/arguable subject...

    Personally, I don't think the 750 requires any of the honing, aftermarket shellplates, aftermarket bearings and much of the other suff that many guys change out. It's a machine that's primarily designed for quantity more so than quality. One can buy and bolt on everything under the sun and it will still never make precision ammo that is as nice as just about any $100 single stage will, that's not a dig though, it's just got too many moving parts.
     

    impactaddict

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    IMO, this is a YMMV/arguable subject...

    Personally, I don't think the 750 requires any of the honing, aftermarket shellplates, aftermarket bearings and much of the other suff that many guys change out. It's a machine that's primarily designed for quantity more so than quality. One can buy and bolt on everything under the sun and it will still never make precision ammo that is as nice as just about any $100 single stage will, that's not a dig though, it's just got too many moving parts.
    I made some of the mentioned improvements to my 750 before I made any ammo, so I'm not sure how the 750 runs in OEM configuration. Its since ran several thousand MK262 clones through w/o a hiccup. Ball powder meters great. I also made a thousand 168gn FGMM clones using the Auto Tricker and Area 419 adaptor for powder drop using XBR 8208. It requires a little more synchronization for off-press throw/on-press charge but its manageable - and slower. Accuracy results for each load are acceptable for their intended purpose. I would dare say PRS ammo could be successfully loaded on the 750 - and I think a few are doing that.

    I have heard that XBR 8208 and the Dillion are a good match for each other. I read this after production so I never tested on my press. Does anyone have experience with that combo? good or bad..
     
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    SalomonQST99

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    IMO, this is a YMMV/arguable subject...

    Personally, I don't think the 750 requires any of the honing, aftermarket shellplates, aftermarket bearings and much of the other suff that many guys change out. It's a machine that's primarily designed for quantity more so than quality. One can buy and bolt on everything under the sun and it will still never make precision ammo that is as nice as just about any $100 single stage will, that's not a dig though, it's just got too many moving parts.
    To make a precision round on the 1050 vs single stage, what really matters?
    1. Sizing - Can't see that a single stage would do better, but I could be very wrong
    2. Swaging - Would be off press for a single stage, so can't see a difference here.
    3. Primer insertion - Can't see that a single stage would do better, but maybe controlling the insertion depth may be better.
    4. Powder Drop - Here I can see where monitoring powder by the grain will give you a better SD and extreme spread.
    5. Powder Check - No effect
    6. Seating - With a micrometer seating die, I can't see a single stage would do all that much better.
    7. Crimp - Not needed with rifle dies.
     

    Huskydriver

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    IMO, this is a YMMV/arguable subject...

    Personally, I don't think the 750 requires any of the honing, aftermarket shellplates, aftermarket bearings and much of the other suff that many guys change out. It's a machine that's primarily designed for quantity more so than quality. One can buy and bolt on everything under the sun and it will still never make precision ammo that is as nice as just about any $100 single stage will, that's not a dig though, it's just got too many moving parts.

    Lol seriously?

    You know how much match ammo with 1-2 tho run out I load on a 650?......
     
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    CK1.0

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    You guys are all missing me...

    I never said you couldn't load precision ammo on a Dillon/progressive, I know you can and that many do.

    I said I didn't think a lot of the aftermarket stuff matters much as compared to what you can get off a mostly stock machine, that's just like my opinion man lol. I personally think it has much more to do with how well the machine is setup/adjusted, and what the monkey pulling the handle does, than what parts get swapped out.
     
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    padom

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    No we understand exactly what you said....maybe you should go back and read it.... You said...and I quote....."One can buy and bolt on everything under the sun and it will still never make precision ammo that is as nice as just about any $100 single stage will"

    You didnt just say adding upgrades makes the same ammo as a stock Dillon..... you said, no matter stock or with all the upgrades in the world...the Dillon will never make precision ammo as nice as just about any $100 single stage....

    First off, I dont know what "nice" means when it comes to making ammo. I know how to measure runout and concentricity.... And I can tell you Ive made 10's of thousands of precision handloads on my Dillons that have identical runout and accuracy as the same ammo made on a single stage Co-Ax. I actually did that very test years ago on here in the Dillon thread where I made identical ammo on my Co-Ax and my 650.... Zero difference in ES/SD or Accuracy......
     

    rdinak

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    Interesting thread with lots of good points. I have owned lots of presses over the years. Would be curious to see what fraction of a percent of trained/above average shooters could shoot the difference between quality loads loaded on one press vs. another? Using the same exact components/dies on a Forster Coax, Redding T7 or Dillon will produce quality results that are more a reflection of consistent loading techniques than mechanical differences. The gauges dont lie.

    When I see shooters pondering a 750 all pimped out, the first thing that comes to mind is why not just cry once and buy a used 1050? In the long run you will save money and time. How you ask? Because you purchased the features you really wanted in the first place. Priming on the up stroke is good, and a built in swager is even better.

    If there is a real person that sold Dillon Equipment to purchase Lee........well....... better you than me. LOL

    YMMV
     

    reubenski

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    Interesting thread with lots of good points. I have owned lots of presses over the years. Would be curious to see what fraction of a percent of trained/above average shooters could shoot the difference between quality loads loaded on one press vs. another? Using the same exact components/dies on a Forster Coax, Redding T7 or Dillon will produce quality results that are more a reflection of consistent loading techniques than mechanical differences. The gauges dont lie.

    When I see shooters pondering a 750 all pimped out, the first thing that comes to mind is why not just cry once and buy a used 1050? In the long run you will save money and time. How you ask? Because you purchased the features you really wanted in the first place. Priming on the up stroke is good, and a built in swager is even better.

    If there is a real person that sold Dillon Equipment to purchase Lee........well....... better you than me. LOL

    YMMV
    I have gone back and forth on a 650 versus 1100 for a couple of years. The price difference is not in the two machines. The price difference is in the tool heads and conversion kits: that's where the 1100 kills you.
     

    CK1.0

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    No we understand exactly what you said....maybe you should go back and read it.... You said...and I quote....."One can buy and bolt on everything under the sun and it will still never make precision ammo that is as nice as just about any $100 single stage will"

    You didnt just say adding upgrades makes the same ammo as a stock Dillon..... you said, no matter stock or with all the upgrades in the world...the Dillon will never make precision ammo as nice as just about any $100 single stage....

    First off, I dont know what "nice" means when it comes to making ammo. I know how to measure runout and concentricity.... And I can tell you Ive made 10's of thousands of precision handloads on my Dillons that have identical runout and accuracy as the same ammo made on a single stage Co-Ax. I actually did that very test years ago on here in the Dillon thread where I made identical ammo on my Co-Ax and my 650.... Zero difference in ES/SD or Accuracy......

    Pardon me, you are correct, I didn't articulate myself properly.

    I guess what I meant was that, figuartivly, a progressive with all its moving parts means much more intreactions for one to try and control than is the case with a simple single-stage and its few moving parts. More variables to keep an eye on usually means more mistakes for most people, and thus, a worse product... but in fairness, "most people" isn't everybody, so it's not a hard rule.

    Again... that's just, like, my opinion, man.
     
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    Huskydriver

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    Pardon me, you are correct, I didn't articulate myself properly.

    I guess what I meant was that, figuartivly, a progressive with all its moving parts means much more intreactions for one to try and control than is the case with a simple single-stage and its few moving parts. More variables to keep an eye on usually means more mistakes for most people, and thus, a worse product... but in fairness, "most people" isn't everybody, so it's not a hard rule.

    Again... that's just, like, my opinion, man.
    49c07fa2-4828-453b-a5dd-2ffde7f3f9a9_text.gif
     

    99mpower

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    I have gone back and forth on a 650 versus 1100 for a couple of years. The price difference is not in the two machines. The price difference is in the tool heads and conversion kits: that's where the 1100 kills you.

    I feel that one in my soul. As someone with (2) 1050s and 14 toolheads, and almost as many conversions, its never cheap. I mitigate a lot of that cost by buying/selling reloading stuff. I buy out people selling their gear, keep what I want, and sell the rest. NORMALLY it all works out in my favor, and I get a lot of great stuff for "free".

    I still want to pick up (3) dedicated CP2000s though, with the new Dillon Automation, to processing 9mm, 45, and 556. Then on occasion run 308/40.
     

    impactaddict

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    Pardon me, you are correct, I didn't articulate myself properly.

    I guess what I meant was that, figuartivly, a progressive with all its moving parts means much more intreactions for one to try and control than is the case with a simple single-stage and its few moving parts. More variables to keep an eye on usually means more mistakes for most people, and thus, a worse product... but in fairness, "most people" isn't everybody, so it's not a hard rule.

    Again... that's just, like, my opinion, man.
    What sold me on the 750 was several f-class guys using them for their match loading. Some have since moved to the zero press but my intention was a high volume and match capable solution in one press. Co-ax fills in the gaps
     
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    99mpower

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    What sold me on the 750 was several f-class guys using them for their match loading. Some have since moved to the zero press but my intention was a high volume and match capable solution in one press. Co-ax fills in the gaps

    Im waiting to pick up a Zero press.. was going to get a T-7 turret, and then the Zero came out. Time to up my precision rifle loading game. I like my chuckers, but having a turret, where once you set the die, it never has to move, has a ton of appeal to me
     

    Hoser

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    Right now I really want to buy an 1100 and auto drive just for case prep. But everytime I add everything up I think I don't process enough brass to justify it. That I just need to gut it out the half dozen times or so that I need to process a thousand or so cases.

    ..... meanwhile I'm putting off running about 800 pcs of fired and cleaned brass thu the trimmer and swager and I have a match coming up this weekend and have no prepped brass ...

    That is exactly why I put an autodrive on one of my 1100s.

    I run all my brass through it and get the FL resizing done at around 2,000 cases per hour while I am doing something else. Just having that one step done makes loading ammo so much easier.

    I have been loading long range ammo on a 550 progressive for 15+ years. I dont use the Dillon powder measure, I use a Prometheus or an autotrickler. But every time I pull the handle a loaded round comes out the other side.

    A lightly tuned Dillon powder measure will throw pistol powders like Titegroup and Bullseye to within 0.04 of where I want it. A tuned Dillon measure will also throw big kernels like Varget to within a tenth or two.

    The 550 will have better shoulder bump consistency and seat depth consistency than the 750/650/1050 family because of the way the shell plates are made.

    My 550 loads everything from 17 Mach IV to 338 Lapua.
     
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