Disappointed

EchoDeltaSierra

Slightly above average
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Jun 1, 2013
581
336
69
Minnesota
Being a connoisseur of nice stuff, and often wanting to physically see one or two items before making a final decision, I find myself quite disappointed with the fact that Mile High Shooting has a 10% restocking fee, especially for a completely re-sellable accessory that hasn't even had tags removed. When compared to several of the other organizations selling to the same market, this will definitely be something I take in consideration when (and if) I make future purchases.
 

shoot4fun

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Oct 27, 2003
4,171
581
219
Riverside, Alabama, USA, etc
Yup.
A buddy ran into the same harsh reality.
But, to be fair, they were allowing him to return an AIAX rifle. I have never seen a dealer that would take a return on a FFL item before.
Sometimes the glass can truly be half empty and half full at he same time.
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Oct 1, 2005
8,147
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Dallas, TX
Make the decision what you want first, then go buy online.
Buying stuff with the intention of returning it or some of it from the get go, only annoys and costs the seller money and in the end raises the cost for everyone.

Most people who are all thinking they should be able to return everything for free and a full refund get all upset if they get sent something that somebody else had fondled first.....

That's before you add in the time it takes to process, pack and ship the order, then unpack, inspect, verify & process a return.

Stupids say that should all be "free" but all that really means is that the prices have to be raised for everyone based on what people do.
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Sep 28, 2012
6,116
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Central Florida
Make the decision what you want first, then go buy online.
Buying stuff with the intention of returning it or some of it from the get go, only annoys and costs the seller money and in the end raises the cost for everyone.

Most people who are all thinking they should be able to return everything for free and a full refund get all upset if they get sent something that somebody else had fondled first.....

That's before you add in the time it takes to process, pack and ship the order, then unpack, inspect, verify & process a return.

Stupids say that should all be "free" but all that really means is that the prices have to be raised for everyone based on what people do.
Exactly. You want to fondle and try out before you buy, go the the Mile High store. They are very accommodating there. I buy from them regularly and like how they ship very quickly and their prices are competitive.

Or buy from someone else, that's your prerogative.
 

BR7.62

Full Member
Belligerents
Mar 6, 2017
279
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blossburg pa 16912
Holy shit, I'm glad to hear these responses!
Good god think about it from the business owners perspective.
Yeah let me just grab a new box (a couple or few dollars it cost), box this up, mail it to you, hope it doesn't get damaged, wait for it to come back (while probably paying interest on it), open it back up, inspect it, log it back into the system, or it back on the shelf, take the time to issue a refund... Etc.
 

Precision Underground

Rifle Gear
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Jun 21, 2017
2,228
1,930
219
Tallahassee, FL
Being a connoisseur of nice stuff, and often wanting to physically see one or two items before making a final decision, I find myself quite disappointed with the fact that Mile High Shooting has a 10% restocking fee, especially for a completely re-sellable accessory that hasn't even had tags removed. When compared to several of the other organizations selling to the same market, this will definitely be something I take in consideration when (and if) I make future purchases.
If your intent is to order stuff to try it out before deciding if you want it I doubt Mile High will miss you when you take your business elsewhere. In fact I would say companies who have a restocking fee have one to deter people from doing just that. How about post something brand new up on the equipment exchange and send it to me, let me fondle it for a few days and then I’ll let you know if I want to keep it or send it back to you, sound good?
 

tna9001

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Aug 4, 2017
406
137
49
Asheville NC
My experience with MIle high has been outstanding. If they have what I need they get my business even if they are more expensive.
 

Max

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Mar 5, 2013
1,074
800
219
Laramie, Wyoming
www.MaxairEngineering.com
I sell stuff for a living and I buy a lot of stuff online. The bottom line, if I could charge more up front, I could eat the cost of returns, I could do more favors, run more sales etc etc.

Today’s economy is lean and mean. We try to sneak in added-value everywhere we can but I still get tech support calls on the weekend from folks who purchased something that I sell from Amazon, for less money. When I suggest they need to call Amazon: “Oh so you’re not going to help me out?”. I usually do anyway......

The other day, I had a repeat customer trying to get me to do something custom to a product he bought somewhere else. When I explained that we don’t do that, he kept pushing for a reason. I started to explain that we make certain business decisions that result in profit at the end of the year. His response: “Oh so you are in it for the money, I thought you where in it to make people’s motorcycles run awesome.” Or something to that effect. I ended up helping the guy out but he is paying a premium.

As a consumer, I pay for the “Edge” program at Brownells and buy most stuff their because of their return policy. In most cases I pay more than I would on Amazon. I know I am likely not getting a Chinese cloan and if there is an issue I can send it back on their dime no retock fee or time limit. This really paid off with a Sig Kilo last year and recently with a defective Lyman Bore cam.

For years consumers have gotten used to the “anything goes” returns at big box outlets and have tried to push that on to smaller mom & pops. They don’t differentiate between a big box that can eat those losses and a mom & pop that are providing a ton added value but are forced to compete at the same pricing level. Something has to give somewhere.

One thing I do is carry limited inventory. Shipping is 4 business days. When customers are looking for faster shipping times I always tell them that I could ship faster if I could raise prices 20%. HANDS DOWN the response is “No don’t raise your prices!”

We have a restocking fee. I dont like it and we try to work with customers the best we can if there is an objection. The fact is though, that the cost of returns is not amortized to other customers, so most customers win up front.....
 
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Mr.BR

Private
Belligerents
Oct 5, 2017
1,281
1,413
119
Being a connoisseur of nice stuff, and often wanting to physically see one or two items before making a final decision, I find myself quite disappointed with the fact that Mile High Shooting has a 10% restocking fee, especially for a completely re-sellable accessory that hasn't even had tags removed. When compared to several of the other organizations selling to the same market, this will definitely be something I take in consideration when (and if) I make future purchases.
Some of you are realy spoiled brats buying at random to try things out ,more or less planing to return most of the stuff even before you buy. In the end these type of buys cost $ and this had to be factored in and spread among all other customers.
 

TacticalDillhole

Shiner of shoes
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Jun 26, 2012
5,289
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N. Carolina
Sounds like the people that bought generators in preparation for hurricane Florence, then brought their generators back to Lowe's because their power never went out. mile high is not Wal-Mart. be realistic
I saw this firsthand. Hilarious part is the Lowe’s by my house rejected like 90% of them because they had already put gas and oil in them.
 

shoot4fun

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Oct 27, 2003
4,171
581
219
Riverside, Alabama, USA, etc
Went to Lowe's one day and they had two riding mowers out front that appeared "rode hard & put up wet". They were greatly reduced in price and, out of curiosity, I asked why they were returned. I was amazed at the answer. "We have a 30 day no questions asked money back guarantee. Someone bought them on Lowe's credit, used them (commercially) for 29 days and returned them for full refund."
My basement is full of stuff I ordered online, thinking it was going to make me run faster and shoot better, but I would not dare try to return any of it. Not unless it was defective and then it went back to the manufacturers.
 

LawnMM

Harbinger of Sarcasm
Belligerents
Jul 5, 2009
3,499
3,228
219
Colorado
If you want to finger fuck something do it in person at a store. If you buy something to "try it" and then return it don't whine about the restocking fee, be happy they took it back at all.

Dumbest shit I've read today.
 

Tx_Aggie

Gig 'em
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Sep 3, 2017
610
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VA
I started to explain that we make certain business decisions that result in profit at the end of the year. His response: “Oh so you are in it for the money, I thought you where in it to make people’s motorcycles run awesome.”
Lol...some people.
 
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Jefe's Dope

Red Forman
Belligerents
Dec 20, 2017
7,573
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Did you bother to read the return policy before you made your purchase?

I don't like restocking fees either. So I usually buy from sellers that don't have them. 10% does not seem unreasonable. I have and would consider buying items from MHS.
 
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EchoDeltaSierra

Slightly above average
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Jun 1, 2013
581
336
69
Minnesota
I seem to have swatted a hornets nest so let me take a moment to expand and clarify. I think MHS is a very knowledgeable organization, I appreciate Mike's frequent contributions on the podcast, and their product selection is extremely well curated. I have no complaints about the organization overall and would like every reason to do more business with them.

That said, being no stranger to online purchasing of fine outdoors and shooting gear and clothing and not living in an area where many things can be looked at before purchase I orders lots of stuff online and quite often will order two or three items, keep the one that I want and immediately return the others. Due to the amount of online business I conduct, I am also very aware that a flat 10% "restocking fee" is not the industry norm.

Looking at companies like Triad Tactical, Armageddon Gear, Short Action Precision, Tactical Works, (I could continue); and many manufacturers like Triple Aught Design, Prometheus Design Works, Cascade Design, Kestrel, etc. one will notice that 14-30 day returns on un-used with original tags and packaging is normally accepted without any penalty. I have no objections to being penalized for something that has been in the field and I expect to pay return shipping costs.

That said, if I want to look at two different sizes of jackets, two different styles of a piece of gear, or more specific, two different brands of shooting bags, then return the one that was not preferred, a 10% immediate penalty plus the cost of shipping this back causes me to reconsider purchasing from MHS.

I just ordered a Kestrel 5700 (specific model 0857A). Kestrel has a 30-day "satisfaction guarantee" and a $699 price tag. The exact same product from MHS is $709 and if I were to exchange or return for whatever reason, the 10% penalty applies.

When I did call and talk to MHS I was told this was to cover "credit card charges". This should not at all be an issue because credit card processors do not charge fees for reverting charges within designated return periods; which if MHS is paying those fees, they should re-evaluate their credit card processor.

I just present objective feedback like this (small but significant) might cause Mile High Shooting to reconsidering this abnormal policy given they are actively marketing to the online community and apparently want to sell to customers like us.
 

TheGerman

Oberleutnant
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Jan 25, 2010
7,280
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the Westside
Not speaking about this specific transaction from the OP, but responding to other posts; this is also nothing against MHS.

In this Amazon.com/internet shopping day and age, vendors with a shit/nonexistent return policy, restocking fees or the lack of real time website inventory (looking at you TNVC) are at a disadvantage. While there are holdouts, these too will become things of the past as having to compete with a company that doesn't have a shit return policy or a restocking fee for the same item is a losing situation.

I get it, people have favorite go to vendors where they'll pay an extra few bucks or whatever to buy from instead of the random cheapest website on the internet for that item. I'm the same way, but, those vendors generally also have easy returns and no restocking fees. Albeit, I've never tried to return a full rifle before either, but it makes me much more comfortable knowing I purchased something and if it doesn't do what I thought it did/wanted it to, it can go back. Restocking fee on something with the bag tossed out and the tags off? Yes. On something BNIB that you couldn't tell it had ever left the store? LOL

I'll be honest in that if I see a restocking fee, 'no returns' or if I have to call/email you to find out if shit is in stock, I've already closed your website, moved on and have made a mental note to not bother if you pop up on a search. There are way too many competitors and online retailers out there to have to deal with any of that.

In the long run, being comfortable with what would happen if I did want to return something and not have to deal with shit like restocking fees or a hassle as to if I can return it actually has me buy more things from you/in general.
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Oct 1, 2005
8,147
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Dallas, TX
That said, being no stranger to online purchasing of fine outdoors and shooting gear and clothing and not living in an area where many things can be looked at before purchase I orders lots of stuff online and quite often will order two or three items, keep the one that I want and immediately return the others. Due to the amount of online business I conduct, I am also very aware that a flat 10% "restocking fee" is not the industry norm.
.
On many smaller orders, most of the times these days margins are thin enough that it's actually on the borderline on if it's profitable to sell it to you or just stay home. Not even counting shipping, just the labour charges and packing material to ship an order properly, then to inspect and repack, it's actually sometimes a fair bit and no point putting up with that because somebody wants to use your company as a buy & try place. Getting a return might easily mean having made a loss on the order so why even bother... unless you are loosing shareholder money it's not sustainable.

Our company actually just simply scraps quite a bit of lower end cheap stuff we get as part of bigger lots, as it's not worth selling because one or two people on eBay lying to use you as a try and buy place pretty much make it unprofitable to sell the entire lot, If your actual profit on a $17 order might be $1 but some person returning stuff while lying about it winds up costing you $20 might as well just not bother selling those and scrap them, or keep them to sell at next to nothing as a big bulk lot to other companies that work in the grown up world where purchases are final.

If you actually made a mistake and purchased something in error in good faith and need to return it and exchange it for what would work, then that's a bit of a different matter most of the time but ordering multiple things regularly with the intent to return those you decide you don't want is quite a bit different.

I think what you are seeing is the difference between hardworking small business owners, trying to make a decent living & provide decent paying employment for their employees, that have to deal with people doing that and the "I deserve to do whatever I want to do and find somebody else to pay for it or take a loss, I'm special." type of modern consumers.

Here is a question you should try asking yourself honestly:
If you buy something "new" and somebody else had gotten it sent, looked it over & then returned it, then the store had carefully packed it up as best they could, are you happy to get as "new" at full price?
...I'll bet you won't but who knows...

In this Amazon.com/internet shopping day and age, vendors with a shit/nonexistent return policy, restocking fees or the lack of real time website inventory (looking at you TNVC) are at a disadvantage. While there are holdouts, these too will become things of the past as having to compete with a company that doesn't have a shit return policy or a restocking fee for the same item is a losing situation.
In the long run, being comfortable with what would happen if I did want to return something and not have to deal with shit like restocking fees or a hassle as to if I can return it actually has me buy more things from you/in general.
Actually you are going to be in for a huge surprise once the online shopping options are fully consolidated into a few big companies. Everybody in the industry knows these overly generous return policies for people are unsustainable, the big players just put up with the losses long enough to drive out the small business owners that can't afford to loose other people's money and then they will tighten up just as soon as enough idiots only buy from them to drive all the small players out of business. All you are doing is helping the new Technocrat overlords build your own straightjacket.

You mention Amazon as your example ... well guess what..... try doing a bit too much of the buy & return on Amazon and don't be surprised if once you hit a pre-computed limit of where the algorithm says you are not worth having as a customer, they close your account permanently. Google it... they are getting aggressive about it now that they are the big top dog in the online shopping world.

Walmart and many others are now also working with specialized firms to track customers across multiple retailers, prone to return stuff a bit too much and "encourage" them to buy & return somewhere else... information also easily searched for.
 

Max

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Mar 5, 2013
1,074
800
219
Laramie, Wyoming
www.MaxairEngineering.com
On many smaller orders, most of the times these days margins are thin enough that it's actually on the borderline on if it's profitable to sell it to you or just stay home. Not even counting shipping, just the labour charges and packing material to ship an order properly, then to inspect and repack, it's actually sometimes a fair bit and no point putting up with that because somebody wants to use your company as a buy & try place. Getting a return might easily mean having made a loss on the order so why even bother... unless you are loosing shareholder money it's not sustainable.

Our company actually just simply scraps quite a bit of lower end cheap stuff we get as part of bigger lots, as it's not worth selling because one or two people on eBay lying to use you as a try and buy place pretty much make it unprofitable to sell the entire lot, If your actual profit on a $17 order might be $1 but some person returning stuff while lying about it winds up costing you $20 might as well just not bother selling those and scrap them, or keep them to sell at next to nothing as a big bulk lot to other companies that work in the grown up world where purchases are final.

If you actually made a mistake and purchased something in error in good faith and need to return it and exchange it for what would work, then that's a bit of a different matter most of the time but ordering multiple things regularly with the intent to return those you decide you don't want is quite a bit different.

I think what you are seeing is the difference between hardworking small business owners, trying to make a decent living & provide decent paying employment for their employees, that have to deal with people doing that and the "I deserve to do whatever I want to do and find somebody else to pay for it or take a loss, I'm special." type of modern consumers.

Here is a question you should try asking yourself honestly:
If you buy something "new" and somebody else had gotten it sent, looked it over & then returned it, then the store had carefully packed it up as best they could, are you happy to get as "new" at full price?
...I'll bet you won't but who knows...



Actually you are going to be in for a huge surprise once the online shopping options are fully consolidated into a few big companies. Everybody in the industry knows these overly generous return policies for people are unsustainable, the big players just put up with the losses long enough to drive out the small business owners that can't afford to loose other people's money and then they will tighten up just as soon as enough idiots only buy from them to drive all the small players out of business. All you are doing is helping the new Technocrat overlords build your own straightjacket.

You mention Amazon as your example ... well guess what..... try doing a bit too much of the buy & return on Amazon and don't be surprised if once you hit a pre-computed limit of where the algorithm says you are not worth having as a customer, they close your account permanently. Google it... they are getting aggressive about it now that they are the big top dog in the online shopping world.

Walmart and many others are now also working with specialized firms to track customers across multiple retailers, prone to return stuff a bit too much and "encourage" them to buy & return somewhere else... information also easily searched for.
Exactly, what’s more, Amazon has become a Chinese clone haven. It has become a real problem there. Oh and I take the “frustration free packaging” to mean returned and repackaged. I avoid that.
 

Wrongtarget

Private
Belligerents
May 21, 2017
168
75
34
CA
Disappointed this is an actual thread. If you don’t understand that the vendor has to handle the material twice now and absorb the cost of that without even being paid once right? This is a cost for your indecision, why should they have to absorb it? Just so they can possibly get your next order? They aren’t amazon and shouldn’t be expected be. If you don’t understand the value of a small and knowledgeable business based on service then that’s on you.
 

Precision Underground

Rifle Gear
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Jun 21, 2017
2,228
1,930
219
Tallahassee, FL
I seem to have swatted a hornets nest so let me take a moment to expand and clarify. I think MHS is a very knowledgeable organization, I appreciate Mike's frequent contributions on the podcast, and their product selection is extremely well curated. I have no complaints about the organization overall and would like every reason to do more business with them.

That said, being no stranger to online purchasing of fine outdoors and shooting gear and clothing and not living in an area where many things can be looked at before purchase I orders lots of stuff online and quite often will order two or three items, keep the one that I want and immediately return the others. Due to the amount of online business I conduct, I am also very aware that a flat 10% "restocking fee" is not the industry norm.

Looking at companies like Triad Tactical, Armageddon Gear, Short Action Precision, Tactical Works, (I could continue); and many manufacturers like Triple Aught Design, Prometheus Design Works, Cascade Design, Kestrel, etc. one will notice that 14-30 day returns on un-used with original tags and packaging is normally accepted without any penalty. I have no objections to being penalized for something that has been in the field and I expect to pay return shipping costs.

That said, if I want to look at two different sizes of jackets, two different styles of a piece of gear, or more specific, two different brands of shooting bags, then return the one that was not preferred, a 10% immediate penalty plus the cost of shipping this back causes me to reconsider purchasing from MHS.

I just ordered a Kestrel 5700 (specific model 0857A). Kestrel has a 30-day "satisfaction guarantee" and a $699 price tag. The exact same product from MHS is $709 and if I were to exchange or return for whatever reason, the 10% penalty applies.

When I did call and talk to MHS I was told this was to cover "credit card charges". This should not at all be an issue because credit card processors do not charge fees for reverting charges within designated return periods; which if MHS is paying those fees, they should re-evaluate their credit card processor.

I just present objective feedback like this (small but significant) might cause Mile High Shooting to reconsidering this abnormal policy given they are actively marketing to the online community and apparently want to sell to customers like us.
Curious..... what kind of purchase are we talking here? What did you try out and send back? How much was it?
 

Mr.BR

Private
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Oct 5, 2017
1,281
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Fuck Amazon they are worse than any chinaman , they will never make a single product you want but are quite happy to squeze the small manufacturers and vendors till they sink and are no stranger to filing the market with counterfits and clones to do that besides lowbaling prices , that is their basic MO. But once deed is done you will pay more for less remember that. It might seem great deal today and tommorow but on the long run you pay all they lost to get there and they have been burning trough bilions to wipe out any competition. Amazon is likely the greatest killer of jobs and small bussineses there is.

https://www.thenation.com/article/a...ate-the-market-it-wants-to-become-the-market/
 
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mwinter501

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jul 3, 2013
390
115
49
Fuck Amazon they are worse than any chinaman , they will never make a single product you want but are quite happy to squeze the small manufacturers and vendors till they sink and are no stranger to filing the market with counterfits and clones to do that besides lowbaling prices , that is their basic MO. But once deed is done you will pay more for less remember that. It might seem great deal today and tommorow but on the long run you pay all they lost to get there and they have been burning trough bilions to wipe out any competition. Amazon is likely the greatest killer of jobs and small bussineses there is.

https://www.thenation.com/article/a...ate-the-market-it-wants-to-become-the-market/

Funny, I wonder how many people said the same thing about Henry Ford at the time. Greedy, dishonest man squeezing out all of the poor, hardworking people of smaller companies that failed to evolve and adapt. The assembly line cheating well-meaning small manufactures out of business. "burning through billions (corrected the spelling for you) to wipe out any competition"... what logical business model involves preserving competition? Every surviving business model in history has worked to limit or eliminate competition. Just because they're successful doesn't make them evil. It's easy, however, to make them look as such since people go out of business because of them. If your kid was starting quarter back for two years, but then a better player came around, would you demonize that new player? I would hope you would encourage your kid to practice more...making him better in the long run. Or, he could quit or be sidelined. Life is tough. Coddling people/businesses because they are small/weak/mean well doesn't help anything except your misguided conscience.


Hey, at least you started your post off with an obscenity and a racial slur....definitely a good way to open ears.
 

mwinter501

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jul 3, 2013
390
115
49
I used to work for Bass Pro Shops. We offered a free shuttle from the nearest airport to our store. It was quite common to see people come to the store on an international layover on their way to a fishing trip. They would often buy thousands of dollars of deep sea fishing equipment only to return them on their way back to their home. Our "no questions asked 30-day return policy" mandated that we take back clearly used, and often abused, equipment and either completely decommission it or put it back on the shelf. It's not fair to the next guy to sell them clearly used merchandise. It's not fair to sell it at a deep discount, spreading that overhead cost to all customers. That cost, like it or not, was always passed on to the consumer.

I once had to accept a return of a fresh water fishing reel that I knew, and could prove, was 9 years old. The guy was plenty vocal and animated that he just bought the reel a few weeks prior...even though the reel hadn't been manufactured in over 8 years and had a serial number which reflected that. He also didn't have a receipt. Eventually, the store manager took the reel back and issued him a full refund/credit based upon the cost of (claimed) reel two weeks ago. Who do you think paid for that? Think Johnny Morris opened his wallet? When was the last time you saw the lowest price at bass pro?

Another example - I went to Australia with my wife and parents a few years ago. My dad always got mad when he saw a charge for paying by credit/debit card. I told him that the cost was there either way. Either everyone pays more, or they clearly and candidly listed the cost incurred by the CC processing company to those who wish to pay that way. I said just to think of it as a discount to pay with cash. He couldn't see it that way.

I personally applaud companies who focus costs of business upon those who incur them. I think I'll make a point to buy something from Mile High and Amazon this week.
 

mwinter501

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jul 3, 2013
390
115
49
Fuck Amazon they are worse than any chinaman , they will never make a single product you want but are quite happy to squeze the small manufacturers and vendors till they sink and are no stranger to filing the market with counterfits and clones to do that besides lowbaling prices , that is their basic MO. But once deed is done you will pay more for less remember that. It might seem great deal today and tommorow but on the long run you pay all they lost to get there and they have been burning trough bilions to wipe out any competition. Amazon is likely the greatest killer of jobs and small bussineses there is.

https://www.thenation.com/article/a...ate-the-market-it-wants-to-become-the-market/

Yep... HUGE killer of jobs

Capture.PNG
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
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Belligerents
Oct 1, 2005
8,147
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Dallas, TX
I'd suggest you do some research on what it's like to work for Amazon or Amazon owned companies if you are not one of the bosses....
Try getting a job at one of their warehouses or other locations & let us know how it goes for you...

Who needs to go to the bathroom.....
You enjoy seeing how long you can last before a stress break down....
You like crying at work or seeing your coworkers brought to tears regularly...

Also the owner kind of really hates gun owners and republicans and conservatives & is not shy about using his money to push his agenda.
 
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gonzaga

Sergeant
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Apr 17, 2011
454
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50
Raton NM
10% restocking fee is not that bad imho.... Mile high shooting is a great place and if I lived closer to them I would would most definitely be a broke mofo.... Great group of guys in there and always willing to help. Whenever I am in Denver I always try to stop by.
I would suggest doing your research prior to ordering. That's what I do, and I am at least an hour and a half away from a Sportsman warehouse, 2 hours from bass pro and 3.5 hours from mile high and a Cabelas.....
 
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mwinter501

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I'd suggest you do some research on what it's like to work for Amazon or Amazon owned companies if you are not one of the bosses....
Try getting a job at one of their warehouses or other locations & let us know how it goes for you...

Who needs to go to the bathroom.....
You enjoy seeing how long you can last before a stress break down....
You like crying at work or seeing your coworkers brought to tears regularly...

Also the owner kind of really hates gun owners and republicans and conservatives & is not shy about using his money to push his agenda.

I'm not sure if that's directed toward my posts or not, but I'll respond as if it was.

My main argument would be that we live in the good ol US of A and people can go find a job somewhere else. A job is a contract between an employee and employer. If the employee isn't satisfied with the compensation or the conditions, they can either negotiate another deal or look for work elsewhere.

I'm certainly no Amazon fanboy... Though I can see how someone may glean that from my previous posts. I was simply trying to illustrate how Amazon has grown so large from a strong, competitive business model.
 

W54/XM-388

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I'm certainly no Amazon fanboy... Though I can see how someone may glean that from my previous posts. I was simply trying to illustrate how Amazon has grown so large from a strong, competitive business model.
Because of their business model yes... but it's not exactly "competitive", It's basically pretty much the worst what our capitalist system allows.
Basically it goes... get lots of other people's money, use it to run your business at a loss, sell books below what it costs you to buy them till all the book stores who are not the new Technology darlings and can't get tons of quick investor money run out of customers / business and fold. Then expand the same model to other areas (much like Walmart was famous for doing so), use other people's money to sell at a loss till all your competitors fold, then corner the market and raise prices / squeeze suppliers so you can make all the money as the new monopoly...

They also use other parts of their business to subsidize running parts they are competing hard in at a loss till they outspend others.
Since they can get the investment money because they are one of the tech darlings... too bad for everybody else...
 
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mwinter501

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Because of their business model yes... but it's not exactly "competitive", It's basically pretty much the worst what our capitalist system allows.
Basically it goes... get lots of other people's money, use it to run your business at a loss, sell books below what it costs you to buy them till all the book stores who are not the new Technology darlings and can't get tons of quick investor money run out of customers / business and fold. Then expand the same model to other areas (much like Walmart was famous for doing so), use other people's money to sell at a loss till all your competitors fold, then corner the market and raise prices / squeeze suppliers so you can make all the money as the new monopoly...

They also use other parts of their business to subsidize running parts they are competing hard in at a loss till they outspend others.
Since they can get the investment money because they are one of the tech darlings... too bad for everybody else...
I'll be completely honest - I don't know enough about it to intelligently argue with you about the finite points of their business model. I will say that it's working based upon the user experience. I usually shop around before buying, but I always check Amazon first. Mainly because of their ease of shopping experience and their quick shipping. However, they're not always the cheapest option. Like it or not, that's what the typical consumer bases their purchasing decisions upon these days.

To counter my own point, however. I believe that customer service is starting to make a resurgence in todays economy. Anecdotally, we recently bought my wife a new car. Previously, I typically shopped for vehicles based upon the lowest possible price. I was then left disappointed by the poor long-term customer experience when it came to recall, maintenance, etc services. This time, we went to the dealership that is known for it's superb customer experience. We probably paid a marginally higher price for the vehicle, but the ease of transaction and ongoing customer service has so far shown to be worth it. I believe the sweet spot will soon show itself. Clearly, a significant purchase, such as an automobile, doesn't compare to me buying laundry detergent online. But the market will dictate where that sweet spot lies for each particular segment.

I certainly don't actively promote unethical business practices. But, given the current ease of information sharing, I also believe that such unethical business practices would fairly quickly remedy themselves by the same market if it were consistently intolerant of such things.

I would venture to surmise that the same business model you describe of Amazon would closely mirror what many would call "hedging". I invest in gold to hedge against inflation. They compete for a large share of the market to hedge against the areas where they must take a loss to remain competitive.
 
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Mr.BR

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Yep... HUGE killer of jobs
Amazon needs about half as many employees as bussineses its puting out of bussines and in adition Amazon jobs while they last are about as bad as they get and remember those robots they use in the mega warehouses (tech not aplicable to small bussineses means jobs lost)

Estimates go that Amazon in 5 years will take some 2 mio jobs just in retail about as much as moving manufacturing to chinese factories did and lets not forget it mostly peddling you chinese stuff anyway.

That ''strong bussines model'' ,consists of basically burning investors money by the billion selling under cost to break down the competiiton that can't do the same , is that great that it used to be illegal till corrupt politicians defanged antitrust laws , isnt that what tarifs against china are suposedly trying to fix?

*assholes sitting in US Supreme Court more or less made certain that treshold of proof needed to go after operations with predatory pricing model like Amazon's is more or less unreachable. Arguments for that was that lowbaling was good for consumer.

Problem is predatory pricing is not a forever ,just till the competition is out of the game then prices go up are unchallanged in the end , they are in it to make money not burn it.

https://ilsr.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/ILSR_AmazonReport_final.pdf
 
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David in NC

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I see this debate on the binocular and birding forums also. When I started lurking there I was shocked that the standard advice was to buy two or three pairs you liked (even from the Teutonic Trinty-Swaro, Leica, and Zeiss) that could run around or over $2000 a pair and try them and return the ones you didn't like. Me personally - I never could believe in doing a return based on "buyer remorse" alone, or buying to simply try and then planning on returning.

I know that folks who do it convince themselves that the business model is "built" to incur and absorb this loss and it's okay and not "really" hurting anyone (also noted the thread on PayPal on this forum along the same lines) but it's hard for me. I will admit I have returned two pair of binoculars and a camera however that I was just not happy with after getting them, and had to be goaded into returning those.

Also from the discussions I follow on the binocular forums I see that European countries sometimes sell the products for slightly less than they cost in the USA (after currency conversion of course) as they have to "build in" extra costs to offset American's expectations under warranty (several are explicit that products bought in European markets will not have a USA warranty-like cameras and photography items are often sold also).
 

Derek200

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I used to work at Walmart. People would essentially “rent” lawnmowers. They would mow all summer and then return the mower. That dinged the store, the buyer and the company in profit. Non issue for the company. But big deal to the hourly folks at the store.

I have foster kids. Usually teenagers. And I hear them talking about buying something, using it and returning it. And then we have to have an ethics talk. Hahah. No matter how greedy you think a corporation is, it’s still unethical.

I know that it isn’t exactly the scenario you are describing but....
 
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Jefe's Dope

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Also from the discussions I follow on the binocular forums I see that European countries sometimes sell the products for slightly less than they cost in the USA (after currency conversion of course) as they have to "build in" extra costs to offset American's expectations under warranty (several are explicit that products bought in European markets will not have a USA warranty-like cameras and photography items are often sold also).
I always understood that Europe has "extreme" consumer protection laws and thought that that warranty was much more comprehensive and buyer protected.

No?
 

Jefe's Dope

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I used to work at Walmart. People would essentially “rent” lawnmowers. They would mow all summer and then return the mower. That dinged the store, the buyer and the company in profit. Non issue for the company. But big deal to the hourly folks at the store.

I have foster kids. Usually teenagers. And I hear them talking about buying something, using it and returning it. And then we have to have an ethics talk. Hahah. No matter how greedy you think a corporation is, it’s still unethical.

I know that it isn’t exactly the scenario you are describing but....
Two wrongs don't make a right. But three rights will make a left.
 

Kamerad

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Being a connoisseur of nice stuff, and often wanting to physically see one or two items before making a final decision, I find myself quite disappointed with the fact that Mile High Shooting has a 10% restocking fee, especially for a completely re-sellable accessory that hasn't even had tags removed. When compared to several of the other organizations selling to the same market, this will definitely be something I take in consideration when (and if) I make future purchases.
Reads like a diary entry.
 

RRW

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Being a connoisseur of nice stuff, and often wanting to physically see one or two items before making a final decision, I find myself quite disappointed with the fact that Mile High Shooting has a 10% restocking fee, especially for a completely re-sellable accessory that hasn't even had tags removed. When compared to several of the other organizations selling to the same market, this will definitely be something I take in consideration when (and if) I make future purchases.
Do you want some cheese with that whine. Some people.
 

Nik H

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My wife bought me a SENDIt level for my AXMC. I never thought about buying one but it was a great gesture on her part as she asked some buds for what to get me.

She bought it from MH and unfortunately it would not work on my rifle as it is a LH version. I called MH and explained what happened to them. They told me of a new model that accommodates LH shooters. I said sounds great but what do I owe you besides the 10% restocking fee. They did a straight swap and even paid to have me ship the old one back.

That is customer service!
 

acudaowner

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it happens i was under the impression that was what the range was for to have a chance to see other people stuff first and maybe even get the chance to try it . in 40 years i am yet to meet a gun guy or girl at the range that would not love show off his or her gear willingly or some cases over thrilled at the chance to have other people look at or try there stuff . It's almost a try it before you buy it place and some of them you know have some nice shit man . Good luck to you I got my gun from mile high and for what I wanted there product has not let me down they were great to me anyway . In my mind I wanted the moon and stars instead discouraging like a pushy sales man , me they help me get my dream and more .
 
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DownhillFromHere

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I recently ordered a tier-1 optic from one of the SH supporting vendors. A lot of $$$ for an item I have never seen "in the wild." So I called and talked about my concerns. We worked out a process and timeline by which the scope can be returned for a full refund if it doesn't work for me. It's a process that would not apply to a standard online order. More effort for me, perhaps a a few minutes' amount of additional effort for them - but the approach was established BEFORE either of us had real skin in the game.

I have absolutely no intention of returning the scope. But the option is there. And it was set up BEFORE the vendor put in more effort than talking with me and BEFORE I paid.

In any purchase of more than a few hundred dollars, I always ask the vendor if there is anything I can do to help them help me on price. The first thing is to offer cash or check instead of credit card. Upside is the vendor immediately saves at least 2% paid to the credit card company, downside is purchaser looses "warranty" coverage from the credit card company. Then we talk about tax - can the vendor eat the sales tax?

As often as not, the vendor says no, it is what it is. I thank them and place the order. But, as often as not, there are savings - sometimes very significant savings - to be had. I explicitly tell them I do not want to be "that guy" who tries to wring every last dime possible from the vendor, but it never hurts to ask. Goal is I save a little $$, they get a loyal and happy customer, and everybody happy happy.
 

fencewire

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"We have a 30 day no questions asked money back guarantee. Someone bought them on Lowe's credit, used them (commercially) for 29 days and returned them for full refund."
Wonder how long it takes them to get wise on the new lawn guy pulling that to block him on his next return.
 

Bigfatcock

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This makes one wonder if MHS is selling returned items as NIB. I don’t care if it has tags and shit. Once it’s been sold, it is no longer new.

Kind of fucked up to order multiple items, finger fuck them, and send back what you don’t like.
 
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