Do you shoot your .223?

[kentuckyMarksman]

Any experience on the 75bthp vs the 75 eldm?
All I have ever shot is the eldm and was thinking of giving the bthp a whirl.

I get getter accuracy out of the 75gr BTHP then the ELD-M. I've only tried it with N140 powder though.

Someone just gave me a box of 75gr ELD-M recently, as they discovered it was too long for their AR15 magazines, and they don't want to single load. Will try the bullets again, but with a different powder.

 

[Moose]

I run an 223ai and will never go without one at this point. It's my go to fun setup for range use and/or hunting. Currently running 80gr eld at 2950fps which duplicates my 6mm bra 110gr load dope out to 650ish.

I love the 223AI it does everything I need a rifle to do.

 

[Rob01]

Ah, confused you for the guy shooting 80s. I’ve only tested Norma brass.

I confused my loads also. The 24.5 was the 8208 and the Varget was 25.1. Last one tested was the 8208 and probably why it stuck.

 

[Temper]

I confused my loads also. The 24.5 was the 8208 and the Varget was 25.1. Last one tested was the 8208 and probably why it stuck.

That makes a lot more sense. My node is right at 24.9gr, which gives me 2900fps.

 

[Shootin Stuff]

223AI and 75gn eldm's is a serious combo. Extremely efficient cartridge price/performance wise and if I am going shooting, or think I might end up shooting, mine always comes along with me. The only thing I shoot more of is 22lr.

The ONLY downside I have come across is that some people at the range with little peepee syndrome try and snob you for "only" shooting .223, but fuck em. We know what they're capable of.

 

[st1650]

If you want to load a big quantity fast then SMK 80 or Lapua 77 and 23-23.5 XBR will do the trick

 

[bunsen27]

@reubenski Have you considered running TAC? I've been loading it with 73gr & 75gr ELDM's for PDog ammo to use in my .223 Remage since 2018. It works great with CCI 450 or 41's in LC or Lapua brass. 3025fps and 2975fps are the respective velocities for the 73gr & 75gr with the same load of TAC out of my 26" Criterion barrel with Wylde chamber.

 

[Rob01]

No. I'm dropping powder in a Dillon powder measure and Varget would not do well in that application.

Not to totally rebuff your suggestion or advice, but I guess I'm coming from a place where it's more important to me to be able to load accurate ammo in large quantities at a fast rate than getting one particular bullet to work. Additionally, it wasn't my intention to develop a "universal" load but after it happened I came to value the utility of it over sheer performance. I loaded the BTHP's at mag length just to start out, and discovered they shot excellent there. So now the same load will function in my gas guns. But more than that, it also shoots very well in my gas guns. I'm using Wylde chambers in everything so I guess it shouldn't be a surprise.

The .223 can be turned into a small batch, performance oriented application using long throats, hard to get powder, expensive brass, higher BC bullets loaded long in mags with cut and trimmed inserts and followers. But that would lose interest for me, because it's what I do in all my small batch performance oriented 6mm cartridges and 22BR and 22 Creedmoor, ....so then why a .223 in that style? It wouldn't be able to compete in that manner. What I find interesting in the 223 is mass production of a consistent, stable ammo, that I can always have on hand in large quantities. Works well in multiple rifles because it isn't highly tuned for one specific application. And isn't a high maintenance load. I'm using a lot of about 2-3K pieces of LC brass, Rem 6 1/2 primers, a temp stable powder that still can be dropped or thrown fairly accurately, and a decent and somewhat classic style .223 bullet. I spent about $1800 in powder, primers, and bullets 3 years ago on this combo. It continues to shoot well and I'm nowhere near running out of components during this shortage. I don't have to retune my BC or drag curve, do load development, or any maintenance. It's like I have my own little factory line going here that pumps out a quality of conventional match .223 that would normally cost $1 - $1.50 a round in normal times, but for me $0.24 a round. Kind of like I bought futures.

But I do have a lot of buddies that single stage load Varget in their .223's. Definitely a great powder for that application.

Yeah if running it through a progressive then the ball powder would work better. CFE223 works good for that too. I use the 75 BTHP for that type of loading in my AR too.

I run .223 Wylde chambers in all my ARs and bolt gun. Reasons I don't use the 75BTHP in my Tac .223 is the BC and I can load longer in the MDT mags. I just want more performance and can't run any of the others in Tac class

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

@reubenski Have you considered running TAC? I've been loading it with 73gr & 75gr ELDM's for PDog ammo to use in my .223 Remage since 2018. It works great with CCI 450 or 41's in LC or Lapua brass. 3025fps and 2975fps are the respective velocities for the 73gr & 75gr with the same load of TAC out of my 26" Criterion barrel with Wylde chamber.

I run TAC with 75 gr pills with 25.2gr for my 223 and it's great. 2950 fps I think, but mine is. 21" barrel.

 

[Sheldon N]

The .223 can be turned into a small batch, performance oriented application using long throats, hard to get powder, expensive brass, higher BC bullets loaded long in mags with cut and trimmed inserts and followers. But that would lose interest for me, because it's what I do in all my small batch performance oriented 6mm cartridges and 22BR and 22 Creedmoor, ....so then why a .223 in that style? It wouldn't be able to compete in that manner. What I find interesting in the 223 is mass production of a consistent, stable ammo, that I can always have on hand in large quantities. Works well in multiple rifles because it isn't highly tuned for one specific application. And isn't a high maintenance load. I'm using a lot of about 2-3K pieces of LC brass, Rem 6 1/2 primers, a temp stable powder that still can be dropped or thrown fairly accurately, and a decent and somewhat classic style .223 bullet. I spent about $1800 in powder, primers, and bullets 3 years ago on this combo. It continues to shoot well and I'm nowhere near running out of components during this shortage. I don't have to retune my BC or drag curve, do load development, or any maintenance. It's like I have my own little factory line going here that pumps out a quality of conventional match .223 that would normally cost $1 - $1.50 a round in normal times, but for me $0.24 a round. Kind of like I bought futures.

I'm solidly in this camp too. Buy bulk, use bulk milsurp 1x fired brass, load in bulk on a 1050. I personally go for a moderate conservative load. Around 23gr of XBR, 75 ELD-M in the low 2800 fps range has always shot good for me. My current load had almost no load development other than to shoot a quick 5x5 ladder to get speed and see how it grouped. It shot good, so I ran it. No seating depth tests, I think it's jumping around 60-70 thou now.

Here's the most recent group I shot about 3k rounds after initial tests without changing anything. This was just rezeroing last week after a barrel swap, 5 shots. Black dots are 1/4" in diameter.

 

[djarecke]

I'm solidly in this camp too. Buy bulk, use bulk milsurp 1x fired brass, load in bulk on a 1050. I personally go for a moderate conservative load. Around 23gr of XBR, 75 ELD-M in the low 2800 fps range has always shot good for me. My current load had almost no load development other than to shoot a quick 5x5 ladder to get speed and see how it grouped. It shot good, so I ran it. No seating depth tests, I think it's jumping around 60-70 thou now.

Here's the most recent group I shot about 3k rounds after initial tests without changing anything. This was just rezeroing last week after a barrel swap, 5 shots. Black dots are 1/4" in diameter.

View attachment 7734179

Holy crow, Sheldon! This is why I LOVE 223's! They seem easy to load for, and honestly you're not that handicapped until you get past 600 or so. The biggest issue is energy on target. Who did that barrel for you?

 

[Sheldon N]

Holy crow, Sheldon! This is why I LOVE 223's! They seem easy to load for, and honestly you're not that handicapped until you get past 600 or so. The biggest issue is energy on target. Who did that barrel for you?

I know, right? Stupid thing groups better than my BRA match rifle.

It's a Bartlein 7.5 Twist Heavy Palma 26" spun up by Jonathan Elrod of Modacam Custom Rifles in NC. Rifle is a Bighorn TL3 in a Foundation MG2.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

I have. I use it in my 3gun 223 blaster load. I also use it for 6.5Grendel loads. But I'm pretty happy with 8208 in my 223 match loads. It throws well, temp stable, gives great velocity, and is very accurate.

75 BTHPs at 2950 out of my bolt gun and 2800 out of a 20" gas gun.

What barrel are you using on your bolt gun? I'm using the same powder, powder charge weight, and bullet in my 223, but only get about 2750fps. I'm using a 24" Tikka barrel on mine.

Edit: I suppose elevation may make a difference too. My elevation is about 450' above sea level.

 

[Rob01]

What barrel are you using on your bolt gun? I'm using the same powder, powder charge eight, and bullet in my 223, but only get about 2750fps. I'm using a 24" Tikka barrel on mine.

Edit: I suppose elevation may make a difference too. My elevation is about 450' above sea level.

Elevation wouldn't have anything to do with the velocity at the muzzle. Tikkas are known to have slower barrels so might be partially that.

 

[st1650]

I get 2875 FPS out of 23.5 XBR + 75 eld-m out of a 22.5” SAC/Bartlein barrel at 80F outside air temp.

 

[Steel head]

I'm solidly in this camp too. Buy bulk, use bulk milsurp 1x fired brass, load in bulk on a 1050. I personally go for a moderate conservative load. Around 23gr of XBR, 75 ELD-M in the low 2800 fps range has always shot good for me. My current load had almost no load development other than to shoot a quick 5x5 ladder to get speed and see how it grouped. It shot good, so I ran it. No seating depth tests, I think it's jumping around 60-70 thou now.

Here's the most recent group I shot about 3k rounds after initial tests without changing anything. This was just rezeroing last week after a barrel swap, 5 shots. Black dots are 1/4" in diameter.

View attachment 7734179

That low 23’s of 8208XBR with 75/77 and even 69SMK’s is such a great universal load.
Consistent and doesn’t destroy brass.

 

[spife7980]

The eldms are sort of particular but I also suck at shooting but I get good results with them once Ive found their sweet spot.

 

[Steel head]

26" Heavy Palma, Krieger 1:7.5". 23.5gr 8208

Do you know your reamer specs?

I’m thinking of cutting a 223 barrel for 75/77’s and a bit longer OAL bro a bolt gun.

 

[spife7980]

What's your takeaway after shooting this ladder? What load did you settle on?

I had used the 23.6 from the old lot and they always grouped like that when I would verify zero, makes it real easy to zero, from summer to winter.
I did all of the original footwork for it back on an old phone and I lost the original work up pics going to the new phone so I only have that one of the 7x fired brass where I was verifying it was still best since it had been awhile since I checked.

For the test on the new lot of bullets on the brass that now has twice the firings on it, I only did that last weekend so Ill probably do a bit more seating depth etc to make sure Im not missing anything, but that will have to wait a couple weekends.
I loaded up a few of the 23.6 again to verify that a xylo chassis for a creed rifle isnt the cause of my issues with it though so I can see how it holds together through a handful of those.

Edit: the sight in target paper I did it on got thrown in the trash while we are hosting a party so no pic because I’m not digging through 40 peoples cake mess- the 10 shot sample of 23.6 looked like if you took the 23.6 in the above and made it rounder and that’s with the xylo action screw dragging heavy on the bolt lug from 5 to 6 o’clock of rotating it closed. The xylo continues to piss me off more.

 

[Steel head]

It's just a 223 Wylde reamer. Nothing special.

That’s what I was hoping it was.

 

[spife7980]

That’s what I was hoping it was.

Mine is a .062 freebore wylde too and with the old lot of bullets I was 1.900 to touch when new and seated at 1.873 on the ogive.
I seated this new lot to the damn near the same spot without adjusting the seating die and the oal is ~2.416 for these new ones.
You can go a bit further with the freebore if you wanted and I dont think you would have any issues.

 

[st1650]

What’s your issue with the xylo chassis ?

 

[spife7980]

What’s your issue with the xylo chassis ?

The barreled action I have in it right now shoots like shit more often than it shuold, only the occasional good group but no rhyme or reason to it. So I want to make sure the chassis isnt the cause while I wait on other 6.5 bullets to show up to test that aspect of it. Ive had to grind on the xylo way more than I feel should be necessary to make a plain jane rem700 fit so Im sort of skeptical on it until I get something to shoot well out of it to prove itself to me.

 

[ChadL]

I've got a .223 ackley that I really enjoy shooting. I use the 88 grain ELD match bullets. I switched to Vihtavuori powders awhile back and have been pleased. I can't recall off the top of my head which V powder I'm using for my .223, but I'll have a look at my log book and report back for anyone that's curious.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I've got a .223 ackley that I really enjoy shooting. I use the 88 grain ELD match bullets. I switched to Vihtavuori powders awhile back and have been pleased. I can't recall off the top of my head which V powder I'm using for my .223, but I'll have a look at my log book and report back for anyone that's curious.

Why did you switch to V powders? Availability or did you choose to switch for some other reason. Temp sensitivity is the first thing I look for when looking at new powders because it gets so hot here. Virtually no powder does great at the temps it is here for all of summer and a lot of the year really.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

I've been thinking about ordering a Bartlein MODB carbon in a 22" M24 contour. That would be a cool barrel. And last forever.

I'm thinking similar.

Between being 223 and MODBB it would last forever. I'd probably go a little longer (24" or 26") and get it fluted.

 

[ChadL]

Why did you switch to V powders? Availability or did you choose to switch for some other reason. Temp sensitivity is the first thing I look for when looking at new powders because it gets so hot here. Virtually no powder does great at the temps it is here for all of summer and a lot of the year really.

I started experimenting with N570 for my 300prc. Then experimented with other V powders for my other cartridges I reload. I was impressed enough that I decided to switch. Plus I could buy a lot of V powder at the time (no idea what it’s like now). So, it was a matter of availability (big factor) and performance.

 

[ChadL]

I went and looked at my log book. With 25.4 grains of N-135 I get right at 2900 fps average with the 88 grain eld-m.

 

[jrh84]

23.8 of N135 behind a Berger 90 or Hornady 80 or 88 eld all end up super accurate in my .223 Palma rifle. Usually single digit SD's at 1000 yards.

31" 1:7 twist Bartlein, Origin action, CG Xtreme trigger, Eliseo chassis, Eric Hollis match rifle sling. This was my clean string at 600 a couple of weekends ago.

It'll do the trick at 1000, but I'm struggling with it compared to my 600 yard scores. That, and iron sights at 1000 are hard.

One of these days I'll step up to a big boy caliber for 1000 yards, but its sure nice to load one caliber at $0.40/each for everything I shoot. One set of dies, one or two powders, etc. Its nice keeping it cheap and simple, and you aren't giving up a thing at 600 yards and in.

 

[Pharmseller]

75 ELDM, Tikka T3x Varmint, 25.0 gr Varget, CCI400 primer, R-P brass, 2977 fps and really good accuracy. Five shot groups.








P

 

[generalzip]

I shoot mine more than any bolt gun due to the east of using wolf primed brass. The ballistics are essentially identical with a 88 eld to a 6BR with a 105.

 

[Pharmseller]

This is Blue Lightning



Stainless Tikka T3 1-10”

26.5 grains Benchmark with a 50 gr NBT Varmint. 3400 fps, crazy accuracy 400 yards and in.

My boy named the 50 gr load “Pest Control,” and for good reason.



P

 

[260284]

75 ELDM, Tikka T3x Varmint, 25.0 gr Varget, CCI400 primer, R-P brass, 2977 fps and really good accuracy. Five shot groups.

View attachment 7741504

View attachment 7741505

View attachment 7741506


P

I use 24.9 grs of H4895 under the 75 gr ELDM out of my 223 Varmint. Using NAMMO brass and CCI450s, I get 3020 fps. I am loading mine to almost 2.50" COAL.