Does anyone else get frustrated reloading

[DocRDS]

Maybe I'm totally OCD, but it seems like I screw the pooch all the time on reloading. Can't quite get my shoulder bump right. Load too long, get pressure signs, just generally always fucking up (stoopid locking rings from the other night).

I'll watch videos and people get their .002 bump and I've never gotten that, and I can't even keep it consistent for some reason. I set it and then some are okay, some are not.

My 6GT is so damn short that even at 2.500 is was jammed into the lands and causing pressure spikes with 33.5 Grains of varget.

Maybe I'm just bitching out loud after a hard week in the reloading room, but it seems like I'm the only one who ever screws up. Example: ruined a perfectly good piece of brass by accidently smacking it off center into a mandrel.

Anyone else feel that or is everyone a smooth reloader and I should take up knitting?

 

[memilanuk]

Maybe you should find someone local to help walk through your processes and see where you're going astray.

 

[bmash]

Example: ruined a perfectly good piece of brass by accidently smacking it off center into a mandrel.

Did that this week! I don’t get frustrated. More like a challenge.

 

[Aftermath]

Opposite.
Figuring out the load is interesting and fun.
Once I have it figured out, keeping it there is therapeutic to me. Sorta like pulling the trigger. I need to tune out the distractions, the life stressors, and focus on the task at hand.
Once in a while, I screw up a piece of brass...or find a reason that I feel like merits throwing some brass out. Other things go haywire. Still more interesting and distracting enough that I can keep everything else tuned out and if I cannot afford to ruin a piece of brass, I'm probably going to cry when my rounds are not impacting center bull.

I think you should try knitting and whine about only purling once when you should have purled twice. Then you can go squat while you pee, make some real man a sandwich and other non-manly things. I'm sure you can think of several right off the top of your head.

 

[diggler1833]

Coming from a guy with 199 pieces of Alpha 6GT brass himself - I feel your pain man . And no, I didn't lose mine...I forgot that there's a difference in adjusting the seating die between Hornady and Redding.

Reloading is what I do for fun. Yes, I might get .0015 variation in my headspace (make sure you aren't over lubricating and lubricating evenly). I'll even have that much in my CBTO, or more if I'm compressing (but I do micro-adjust my dies for the longer ones). It is therapeutic to me too. For that hour or two, I'm not worried about the world around me...I'm just focused on making everything as consistent as possible.

As long as your personal accuracy expectations are met, just relax and enjoy the ride man. Don't get caught up in the "wallet groups" that others shoot, it's the internet and almost everyone cherry picks. That is like getting caught up in the false narrative of everyone's presented lives on social media.

 

[DocRDS]

Maybe you should find someone local to help walk through your processes and see where you're going astray.

Eww Human Contact (I know its the sensible choice, but I have accepted the fact that Im an asshole and not well liked)

 

[ShtrRdy]

It sounds like you're too hard on yourself. If you ruin a piece of brass somehow just live and learn. As for the brass headspace variation try some things that are generally thought to help.

(try in this order)
1. Run the case into the resizing die and wait 10 seconds before removing.
2. Try a different case lube. I've had good experiences with Redding die wax.
3. Anneal the one-shoulder area of the brass.

 

[Bacarrat]

I have struggled with this too. I have done a lot of searching on why. This is the only video or even someone addressing this issue. Most of the videos on youtube are nothing but shills or just people just don't know. Recently tried this on some 308 brass and it actually helped a lot, all within a thou or so.

 

[OREGUN]

I despise reloading. I went out and shot a bunch of factory 6 CM today and am once again, seriously considering backing way off rolling my own. It’s a pain in the ass and a huge time suck and solves absolutely no accuracy or precision issues for me, for my shooting disciplines.

I’ve definitely gone through 30 pieces of brass trying to get a sizing die set up to be consistent. And bashed a neck by having the case off-center in the press. And crushed a case by seating it in the wrong die. And charged a dozen cases before priming them. It’s a process and a big pain in the dick.

I encourage you to buy a 6CM barrel and a case of Hornady 108 ELDM and see if you have any fewer impacts than with reloaded 6GT. It will be the best $1000 you spend this year when you realize the time you are saving and the trouble you are avoiding.

 

[KYAggie]

Shoot, I was just thinking about this a week ago while loading some 300 WSM and all I have invested in equipment like Redding competition dies, FX120i scale with Ingenuity trickler, expensive bullets, bullet comparator, annealer, measuring tools, etc…..

I have no idea how in the world, when I was 13 years old, I was able to load 7 mag rounds with a RCBS JR press, standard dies, Speer 145 BT’s, IMR 4350, and a balance scale and RCBS powder thrower, and get 3/4” groups with a Ruger M77; but I could. Heck I was figuring out how deep to seat the bullets by seating one long, painting it with a sharpie, and running it into the chamber to see if it left marks. I have no idea how straight they were, how far off the lands they were seated, what the SD and ES was, nor even the fps, but they killed a lot of deer with a Redfield 3x9 Accutrac……no chronograph, no Kestrel, no laser range finder, no spotting scope, just a pair of Tasco binoculars.

Why do I need all of this crap??

 

[thedude824]

I’m pretty sure we’ve all been there. I have 3 Dillon case heads set up for “blasting ammo”.
Regarding precision ammo this is probably why we all spend $300 for set of bushing FL sizing dies and micrometer seating dies vs the $40 RCBS 2 die set, not to mention spending years refining a process and thousands of dollars for powder throwers and annealing machines. For precision ammo I do pretty much a single stage for a single caliber at a time. That way I have time to ensure I’m not missing something.

 

[nn8734]

Maybe I'm totally OCD, but it seems like I screw the pooch all the time on reloading. Can't quite get my shoulder bump right. Load too long, get pressure signs, just generally always fucking up (stoopid locking rings from the other night).

I'll watch videos and people get their .002 bump and I've never gotten that, and I can't even keep it consistent for some reason. I set it and then some are okay, some are not.

My 6GT is so damn short that even at 2.500 is was jammed into the lands and causing pressure spikes with 33.5 Grains of varget.

Maybe I'm just bitching out loud after a hard week in the reloading room, but it seems like I'm the only one who ever screws up. Example: ruined a perfectly good piece of brass by accidently smacking it off center into a mandrel.

Anyone else feel that or is everyone a smooth reloader and I should take up knitting?

You are way overthinking it - that's the problem. Who cares about a little plus minus in shoulder bump. As long as it's min .002 max .005, send it. Same applies to CBTO measurements.

I just tossed over 40 pieces of LC brass in the trash earlier today due to defects or some of them were bumping way more than my .005 max. No big deal. The loss of one piece of brass wont kill you, esp since it's something you know not to do and wont repeat going forward. We are all human afterall...

Take your loads, rifle and a 8"-12" steel plate to 300mm and shoot it with your loads until you become automatic at 300m - like you cant miss regardless of conditions (within reason). Then move it back in 50 or 100m increments until 800m first round hits are like child's play to you.

I suggest this because the whole purpose of shooting is to shoot - not obsess over reloads. I say this with the assumption your reloads are more than up to the task (I'm most likely correct) as is the case with most on here and elsewhere and the reasons you (and me and others) miss have absolutely nothing to do with your ammo.

 

[popeye089]

I like the process and find it therapuetic.

1 Check and make sure your dies are locked properly (most times, this is the culprit....also, no need to overtighte, can lead to canted dies)

2 Don't rush, instead of doing all the steps at one sitting, break days up if you can. It's easier and more time can be spent coming up with your process. It's easier to just clean brass than to try and load them all. I cleaned and loaded 300 in one sittign for a match, wasn't relaxing at all

3 If you don't enjoy it, maybe just shoot factory, not a knock. Shooting is supposed to be fun.
If it isn't fun and relaxing, then take a step back

 

[Edsel]

Maybe I'm totally OCD, but it seems like I screw the pooch all the time on reloading. Can't quite get my shoulder bump right. Load too long, get pressure signs, just generally always fucking up (stoopid locking rings from the other night).

I'll watch videos and people get their .002 bump and I've never gotten that, and I can't even keep it consistent for some reason. I set it and then some are okay, some are not.

My 6GT is so damn short that even at 2.500 is was jammed into the lands and causing pressure spikes with 33.5 Grains of varget.

Maybe I'm just bitching out loud after a hard week in the reloading room, but it seems like I'm the only one who ever screws up. Example: ruined a perfectly good piece of brass by accidently smacking it off center into a mandrel.

Anyone else feel that or is everyone a smooth reloader and I should take up knitting?

Had some fun playing around with different sizing steps...

Personally, I've gotten it down to where the last thing I had to deal with was the inconsistency in the amount of wax that I've been applying.

FULL LENGTH SIZING AND BRASS HYSTERESIS

www.snipershide.com

Paraphrasing one of the comments in the papers on "forming" and "springback" - "the final state is dependent on the initial state." You want to achieve an asymptotic response to successive sizing interventions. I suppose you can say that you are deliberately trying to achieve a state of "diminishing returns."

Duh duh duh duh.

1. Large Shoulder Bumps = large variation in headspace
2. Small Shoulder Bumps = less variation and more predictability in headspace

Use two dies.

First die does the large sizing step, aiming for a headspace consistently "taller" than the goal, across varied range pickup brass.

Don't wipe wax off after the first die.

Second die always has a consistent layer or thickness of wax as a result; I believe this matters more than one would think.

Second die does the minuscule sizing step, aiming for a headspace that does not exceed the goal (or only by a little bit, depending on how you like the "feel" of your bolt closure).

Headspace is pretty consistent and predictable after the minuscule sizing step.

3. Using one die twice was considered, but the headspace goal was often exceeded.

Hope this helps...

EDIT: Though not recommending using such, I tested this method using range pickup brass sans annealing to try and "force" a poor outcome.

 

[diggler1833]

Shoot, I was just thinking about this a week ago while loading some 300 WSM and all I have invested in equipment like Redding competition dies, FX120i scale with Ingenuity trickler, expensive bullets, bullet comparator, annealer, measuring tools, etc…..

I have no idea how in the world, when I was 13 years old, I was able to load 7 mag rounds with a RCBS JR press, standard dies, Speer 145 BT’s, IMR 4350, and a balance scale and RCBS powder thrower, and get 3/4” groups with a Ruger M77; but I could. Heck I was figuring out how deep to seat the bullets by seating one long, painting it with a sharpie, and running it into the chamber to see if it left marks. I have no idea how straight they were, how far off the lands they were seated, what the SD and ES was, nor even the fps. But they killed a lot of deer with a Redfield 3x9 Accutrac.

Why do I need all of this crap??

I still use a Rock Chucker supreme and hand tools man.

Definitely takes me longer to make ammo, but I doubt I could produce more consistency if I went out tomorrow and spent $5K in equipment.

 

[JerkyFreak]

For precision, don't use range-pickups. Single batch Lapua, Peterson or Alpha brass used in one specific rifle. Chopping and changing just makes for disappointment.

Lastly, regardless of shoulder bump inconsistencies, how does it shoot? Few things are as demoralizing as spending hours on a batch of ammunition that shoots as well as someone else doing the basics right.

 

[ggmanning]

Hell no. My shit is all held within .0005", I bench 365, bowhunt exclusively and only shoot ZCO.


Seriously though, reloading for me is one big science experiment. I enjoy working up loads and figuring out what I can control and what I cannot.....what affects results and what does not. Been at it for precision maybe 25 years. I still pcik up stuff to try here and there and change my approach from time to time. Quality components are important. Good brass, good dies, good bullets will give you much better consistency on shoulder bump, seat depth, etc. Also realize not everything lots of folks including myself do in their process are needed for results. Reloaders tend to geek out over all kinds of stuff.

 

[Mike Casselton]

... Few things are as demoralizing as spending hours on a batch of ammunition that shoots as well as someone else doing the basics right.

This right here^^^^

I went back to the basics a long time ago.

 

[OREGUN]

View attachment 8686943

Had some fun playing around with different sizing steps...

View attachment 8686942

Personally, I've gotten it down to where the last thing I had to deal with was the inconsistency in the amount of wax that I've been applying.

FULL LENGTH SIZING AND BRASS HYSTERESIS

www.snipershide.com

Paraphrasing one of the comments in the papers on "forming" and "springback" - "the final state is dependent on the initial state." You want to achieve an asymptotic response to successive sizing interventions. I suppose you can say that you are deliberately trying to achieve a state of "diminishing returns."

Duh duh duh duh.

1. Large Shoulder Bumps = large variation in headspace
2. Small Shoulder Bumps = less variation and more predictability in headspace

Use two dies.

First die does the large sizing step, aiming for a headspace consistently "taller" than the goal, across varied range pickup brass.

Don't wipe wax off after the first die.

Second die always has a consistent layer or thickness of wax as a result; I believe this matters more than one would think.

Second die does the minuscule sizing step, aiming for a headspace that does not exceed the goal (or only by a little bit, depending on how you like the "feel" of your bolt closure).

Headspace is pretty consistent and predictable after the minuscule sizing step.

3. Using one die twice was considered, but the headspace goal was often exceeded.

Hope this helps...

EDIT: Though not recommending using such, I tested this method using range pickup brass sans annealing to try and "force" a poor outcome.

Holy Christ you managed to find a way to make brass prep even more tedious, time consuming, and irritating. Well done, sir!

 

[Edsel]

Holy Christ you managed to find a way to make brass prep even more tedious, time consuming, and irritating. Well done, sir!

It's just an extra Full Length Sizing die, that's all?

If you have annoying brass, use two steps instead of one.

No different from using a regular die prior to a small base die for difficult 7.62x51mm Lake City brass.

Am I missing something?

 

[OREGUN]

It's just an extra Full Length Sizing die, that's all?

If you have annoying brass, use two steps instead of one.

No different from using a regular die prior to a small base die for difficult 7.62x51mm Lake City brass.

Am I missing something?

I guess I’ve never tried to achieve an “asymptotic response to sizing intervention.”

2 sizing dies is a new one on me. If I ever had to small base, it would be the one and only sizing die I used.

I will agree that case lube variation is a source of sizing variability.

 

[918v]

Case lube type is a source of variability. Imperial sizing wax doesn’t have any issues when you hard stop the die against the shell holder. Other lubes cause variance. Use imperial.

 

[Edsel]

I guess I’ve never tried to achieve an “asymptotic response to sizing intervention.”

It just means that if you keep slamming your brass into one sizing die repeatedly, you'll reach a point where you'll size no more no more no more no more...

But naturally, you can't do that - because you lose lube and end up with a jam; and if you were to reintroduce lube, you cause inconsistencies.

So you size it close to your goal with a yuuuge squeeze, then you squeeze it "with precision" by following up with a wee squeeze.

Yuuuge Squeeze = inconsistent headspace with high variability (like stuff you try to size from an M240)
Wee Squeeze = predictable headspace with much less variability (like stuff that barely requires any work, from my bolt gun)

By no means am I saying this is some end - all approach, just that there are some documented physical properties that support the idea, and it seems to work well for my brass, my chambers, my loads; your mileage for your brass, your chambers, and your loads may vary...

Just something I'm throwing out there for others to try, hopefully with success.

Or, I'm just pulling all your legs for some malicious fun, go figure.

Please excuse the use of the pronoun "I" and possessive determiner "my" in these narratives. We handloaders are so in love with our own methodologies and voodoo, and are blinded by self - perceived individualistic exceptionalism that we consider our personal methods as divine gospel

 

[xsn10s]

Maybe I'm totally OCD, but it seems like I screw the pooch all the time on reloading. Can't quite get my shoulder bump right. Load too long, get pressure signs, just generally always fucking up (stoopid locking rings from the other night).

I'll watch videos and people get their .002 bump and I've never gotten that, and I can't even keep it consistent for some reason. I set it and then some are okay, some are not.

My 6GT is so damn short that even at 2.500 is was jammed into the lands and causing pressure spikes with 33.5 Grains of varget.

Maybe I'm just bitching out loud after a hard week in the reloading room, but it seems like I'm the only one who ever screws up. Example: ruined a perfectly good piece of brass by accidently smacking it off center into a mandrel.

Anyone else feel that or is everyone a smooth reloader and I should take up knitting?

I haven't gotten frustrated from reloading. But reloading is a meticulous mechanical skill, and boy I've gotten pretty frustrated doing other mechanical work. I've learned to walk away and give myself a break when I get frustrated. Otherwise things can go wrong for me pretty fast lol. So you're not the only one that gets frustrated doing mechanical work, i'm sure it happens to everyone. As far as shoulder bumping here's a good video with Broz on shoulder bumping. I'd get a set of those competition shellholders but I have other priorities right now. And once I set the bump on my dies I lock the ring and it's generally set. Those shellholders should make it an easy process. When I've had issues on consistent bumps it usually is brass quality or lube variations. And finally even when concetricity, seating depth, shoulder bump, or any of the other myriad of variables we encounter while reloading are off, that doesn't mean the ammo won't shoot. I'd take it easy on yourself. We all do this for fun so don't let yourself take the fun out of it.

 

[Baron23]

Maybe I'm totally OCD, but it seems like I screw the pooch all the time on reloading. Can't quite get my shoulder bump right. Load too long, get pressure signs, just generally always fucking up (stoopid locking rings from the other night).

I'll watch videos and people get their .002 bump and I've never gotten that, and I can't even keep it consistent for some reason. I set it and then some are okay, some are not.

My 6GT is so damn short that even at 2.500 is was jammed into the lands and causing pressure spikes with 33.5 Grains of varget.

Maybe I'm just bitching out loud after a hard week in the reloading room, but it seems like I'm the only one who ever screws up. Example: ruined a perfectly good piece of brass by accidently smacking it off center into a mandrel.

Anyone else feel that or is everyone a smooth reloader and I should take up knitting?

Doc...this is part of the fun and why we spend so much time and money on it! hahaha

Me....reloading.....lol

 

[xsn10s]

Doc...this is part of the fun and why we spend so much time and money on it! hahaha

Me....reloading.....lol

That was me trying to take a picatinny rail off a rifle. Only to find out the smith I used to use red locktite on the screws and made a .010" bed of red locktite under the rail.

 

[memilanuk]

Something that gets overlooked, but helps me a lot... is to keep notes. Detailed, agonizingly detailed, notes.

For a long time, the only 'notes' I kept were in my head. As time went on, and more guns, more calibers, etc. got added to the mix... and as I tried this, that and something else... keeping everything straight became... more difficult. Some people get by just fine with a few 3x5 cards in the box with the dies. Others keep a spreadsheet with the pertinent numbers. Me, I use a spreadsheet, but I also keep a text document. I think the technical term would be 'narrative log', aka 'dear diary'. Notes to myself, about what I was *thinking* when I tried something different. What I expected to see. What I actually saw. What I learned, what new questions arose. Doesn't have to be fancy. Sometimes it amounts to "hey dumbass, don't do *that* again!".

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I have no idea how in the world, when I was 13 years old, I was able to load 7 mag rounds with a RCBS JR press, standard dies, Speer 145 BT’s, IMR 4350, and a balance scale and RCBS powder thrower, and get 3/4” groups with a Ruger M77... But they killed a lot of deer with a Redfield 3x9 Accutrac.

This. Same rifle, but heavy-barrel .25-06. No deer, but a fair number of groundhogs with 87-grain spitzer at 3400fps (according to Speer #7).
-------
Let's talk "precision" and getting the job done. Decades ago at a skeet shoot, a guy was selling a Remington 1100 that interested me. Saturday evening, he gave me a soft case with gun in it to take home and look at.

So I get home and open the case. No Remington 1100. Instead, it was a surplus K98 Mauser. Cool; I hadn't seen one in years, and never in that good condition. So, I pick it up and, of course, open the bolt... the damn thing was fully loaded, locked and cocked. I was pretty damned annoyed that anyone would violate such a fundamental safety rule... I remove all the rounds... wait. Something not right.

Look at a cartridge headstamp. Caliber 7x57 Mauser. Uhhh... this is a 98. Should be 8x57 Mauser.

Stick a bullet nose into the muzzle... slides right in to the case shoulder. Yep, 8x57 Mauser.

Put the rounds - all of them 7x57 Mauser - in a plastic baggie. Take it back the next morning and told the guy, hey, you know you got the wrong rounds in this thing, right? He's like, no I don't. So I pull out a round and show him it fits into the muzzle up to the case shoulder. He's surprised and confused... said, "I've been killing deer with that thing since I was a kid."

Sigh. I guess they musta been pretty darn close....

And we worry about +/- .002 variation...

 

[turkey_creek]

I’m still a FNG, on this forum, reloading, precision shooting. When I acquired the rifle last year, I expected ~1.5 MOA. Then got bit by the bug and started learning handloading, how to use the equipment purchased in 2007 and only used for a handful of .223 reloads within the last five years. Hornady 168 ELDM in Armscor brass and #200’s would not do it with any powder I tried that I had. So I bought Sierras, switched to some Hornady match brass. Same #200’s. RCBS Rock Chuck, basic Lee dies. Most factory ammo measures 1.610” on my case comparator. Fired brass 1.612”. I set it to barely bump the shoulder. 175 SMK and 43.3 gr of Varget or 46.0 CFE223 print .5-.7” groups. 169 SMK and 44.4-44.8 gr Varget produces similar groups. 2.81”, either bullet.

Now I’m chasing the rabbit again with primers and brass. I only have 120 pcs of this Hornady brass. 100 pcs 1x fired Armscor. Working through 400 round case of factory loaded 175 SMK in LC brass, shot my first groups from LC brass yesterday. Same with Federal brass. Have a 500 round case, but I’m going to hoard most of it because I want to shoot some critters with it first, since we can’t get that LE projectile, and it shoots so well on the gun.

So WTF do I do when I have to chance to run a course and need 300 rounds? At least until I shoot through the one case. I’ve also been fussing with making hits past 550-570. Had a chrono that was grossly inaccurate, to the tune of around 100 fps. Got that sorted now, and changed data in my calculator reflecting a more accurate MV, and that would match where my hits were a couple weeks ago. Where I have to shoot out to 800 yards is three hours from home (family land, I work that way periodically), but I’ve only currently got a C zone silhouette, and it’s difficult to spot misses in the thick grass, especially after rain.

Oh, and I absolutely HATE trimming cases. Carpal tunnel sucks. I guess I’m just a broke ass.

 

[RegionRat]

Frustration can point in many directions.

For some, it fuels their tenacity to keep working till things are right.

For others, they might give up and let things slide.

It can be both good or bad in the end.

My only advice is to use your frustration as a sign that you demand your quality standards to be upheld, rather than to allow difficulty to be an excuse for poor workmanship. Never give up. YMMV

 

[Edsel]

"Pursuit of perfection, perhaps in the wrong direction, but fun nevertheless."