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Gunsmithing Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

K

Kevin1

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 26, 2011
528
144
Allen, TX, USA
#1
Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

http://img263.imageshack.us/g/024dij.jpg/
It’s my Savage 10FP in 308 with around 100 rounds down the tube. I only cleaned it a couple of times between each session by using a bore snake, then a patch with hope 9 copper solvent followed by a dry patch (done several times).

The rifle shoots well. I’m just wondering if this irregular copper built-up is normal and if I need to get rid of it?
Thanks for your help,
Kevin
 
#4
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

Might be a bit heavy, but for a factory barrel it is probably about the norm. Fouling will probably decrease as more rounds are down the tube and it breaks in.
 
#5
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

I like to prep my clean barrels with KG moly. Good stuff, but still get this kind of copper down the tube and never see any problems with accuracy. I mostly keep mine dirty and its fine. One thing that I can't see to clearly is the very evident line where this is no copper fouling. But it may be just the photo. Does it shoot well?
 
#6
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cap-Kilo66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like to prep my clean barrels with KG moly. Good stuff, but still get this kind of copper down the tube and never see any problems with accuracy. I mostly keep mine dirty and its fine. One thing that I can't see to clearly is the very evident line where this is no copper fouling. But it may be just the photo. Does it shoot well? </div></div>

There is no pattern for the copper fouling. On picture 1 you see that the fouling between the rifling stops then starts again. On other pictures you just see that there is no pattern. But the rifle shoots well (sub 0.5 MOA at 100 yards).
I guess like others have said, that’s normal for a factory barrel.
 
#7
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

Yep, my .308 does the exact same thing with 3/8" moa. I wouldn't worry about it.

Now I had a .300 win mag 700P that the bore looked porous, it did not shoot worth a darn (I'm talking really bad 6" MOA at 100) and would not clean up at all. Yours looks like a nice lapped smooth surface like normal.

I sent mine horrible 300 win mag off to Tac Ops to have a Kilo 66 built with a new Krieger barrel, so no worries for that one, but just wanted to let you know that I do think there are some lemons out there, and when they are a lemon, you'll probably be able to tell as it should be a bad shooter.

Regards,

CAP
 
#8
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

027ry.jpg
 
#9
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

I have a 10FP and it fouled fairly heavy for the first 500 rounds or so. I cleaned after each session (wipeout, followed by kano kroil, hoppes and a swipe of oil) and as the amount of copper detected went to almost zero I now run a patch of hoppes, one dry and then one of oil after each session. Now as accuracy (1/2moa) drops I clean her up again with the wipeout, kano kroil, hoppes, and oil. I have 2000 rounds through the stock barrel.

Works for me, YMMV...
whistle.gif
 
#10
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

you say it shoots well.. why would you want to change that? if it sshoots well with that copper in there it stands to reason that it may shoot like shit without the copper. dont try to solve a problem that isnt there. shooting well is a good thing.
 
#11
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ckirkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you say it shoots well.. why would you want to change that? if it sshoots well with that copper in there it stands to reason that it may shoot like shit without the copper. dont try to solve a problem that isnt there. shooting well is a good thing. </div></div>

Initially the barrel was clean with no copper fouling and was already shooting great (I’m not considering the first 20 rounds of the crappy Winchester super X 180 g).
This gun shoots sub 0.5 moa with a clean, dirty (never tried passed 40 rounds without cleaning), cold or hot barrel.
I’m going to continue with my current light cleaning method (hope 9 copper solvent. Might try soaking the barrel over night though). If the accuracy decreases, I’ll use a more aggressive solvent (Sweet's 7.62).

Thanks all for your inputs. It was very helpful and reassuring.
 
#12
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

one can learn a lot using a bore guide and precision cleaning equipment with nylon brushes and jags w/proper patches......you will be able to feel where the build-ups are...its an acquired taste .......
 
#13
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

Looks just fine to me. Keep doing your cleaning routine if it makes you feel good, but my Savage shoots great with about 500 rounds between cleaning. If I let Gunslick foaming cleaner soak in the barrel for a couple hours, I can get every trace of copper out, but its back again after 5 rounds.
 
#14
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

Like others have said, if it shoots fin, don't mess with it.

My experience with Savages, the shoot better dirty. I chased loads all over the place with my 10FP 308 until I read an article on 6mmbr about a guy not cleaning his 308 and was surprised at how much better it shot. I figured I would give it a try and sure enough, about 25 shots in, it started shooting sub-MOA. I had been loading up 25 rounds of each load and the cleaning the shit out of it. Since then, I've shot 2000+ rounds and cleaned maybe 5 times. Now all of my rifles get the same treatment. I sure spend a lot less time cleaning and I'm happy with the targets.

There are a lot of great experienced shooters on here. I've learned a lot from reading on these guys. That includes that a barrel doesn't have to have a mirror surface on the inside to shoot well. Its more about the guy (or girl) pulling the trigger.

Mike
 
#15
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">one can learn a lot using a bore guide and precision cleaning equipment with nylon brushes and jags w/proper patches......you will be able to feel where the build-ups are...its an acquired taste ....... </div></div>

Just bought a Dewey cleaning rod that came with a Jag and a Dewey bore guide. Today I’m planning to buy some sweet 7.62 and get rid of the copper with Winchester patch.
 
#17
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

I used Hoppe’s 9 bench rest and let it soak overnight. The copper was gone. I took it shooting the next day and the groupings were pretty good.

The following day I cleaned it again (soak only half a day) and took the below picture.
Before cleaning the copper (picture of my inital post)
http://imageshack.us/f/827/025qmp.jpg/

[img:center]http://imageshack.us/f/827/025qmp.jpg/[/img]


After cleaning
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/barrel.jpg/

[img:center]http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/barrel.jpg/[/img]

I continue to notice a half circle where apparently the bullet is not touching the barrel for 0.25”. You have fooling before that line and after that line. Is it because it’s new factory barrel and I need to shoot it more to get a more even worn on it? Have you ever seen such thing in your rifle?
Thanks,



 
#18
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

Savage bores tend to be less well honed at the factory, and this results in a more significant copper fouling trend. This will correct itself as the bore 'wears in' and fouling will tend to be most pronounced earlier on in the life cycle, pretty much as you are experiencing.

I have found that this product is simple to use, easy on the bore, and works very effectively when used just as directed.

Greg
 
#20
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

Mine didn't clean well until about 500+ rounds. Just keep shooting until accuracy drops off. Then take out a large block of time and have about 100 patches. It will eventually clean up and never foul that bad again. Mine has over 1k on it now and cleans up beautifully.
 
#21
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWV</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine didn't clean well until about 500+ rounds. Just keep shooting until accuracy drops off. Then take out a large block of time and have about 100 patches. It will eventually clean up and never foul that bad again. Mine has over 1k on it now and cleans up beautifully. </div></div>

I'm noticing an accuracy drop after only 20 rounds (and it's not because the barrel is hot). I just use a bore snake and the accuracy is back.
 
#22
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

Bore Tech Eliminator - Nylon Brush - Proof Positive Jag

I did the same as JWV post above and after about 4 hours of cleaning it was GTG after that.
 
#23
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

After a few hundred shots the barrel retains much less cooper residues than before.
I’ve started cleaning it with Gunsilck Pro Foaming Bore Cleaner and really like it. It’s quick, easy and efficient.
I do notice a lot of toolmarks inside, but I guess Savage is known for shooting well with barrels that are rough inside…

 
#25
Re: Does the inside of this barrel look right to you?

Savage barrels are accurate, but their interior finish is not the same as a premium aftermarket barrel. You get what you pay for and it's a good compromise, IMHO.

This finish tends to copper foul a bit heavy before the bore ends up becoming naturally firepolished. While I don't think a mild degree of residual copper fouling is bad for accuracy, I do tend to get antsy about leaving it alone inside a dry bore for long periods. I believe that if air and moisture can get at the copper/steel sandwich, bore pitting can occur if allowed to stand for a long time.

So, if I'm not going to clean a bore before a potentially long layup (like over the Winter, and this is not my preferred approach), I will at least try to lay down a moisture barrier over the copper in the form of a coat of gun oil. Better something than nothing.

I have also found that Outer's Gunslick Bore Cleaning Foam is a simpler and effective way to get out fouling. It really works well considering the genuinely smaller amount of effort involved.

Greg
 
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