Dumb question for LE

[ArcticLight]

Absolutely not a rant...

However, the other night, had a bad day, death in the family, distracted..Cruising along in my red VW Scricco at 25mph, hte posted speed limit, going downhill..

I'm especially weary because there is a police station down at the bottom of the hill and they like to sit there and run radar...

I see a dead animal, medium size, and it's too late to swerve, BANG, I run this dead animal over except I was not sure if it was dead until I hit it so I'm looking back to see if something is moving...I hate killing unecessary things..

In my distraction I hit 35mph...and low and behold there was a cop sitting parallel parked across from the PD.

He tells me I was speeding. I explained there was a large dead cat in the road and I hit it. He says "No, it was a raccoon, I saw it.

New technology - it's been this long since I've gotten a ticket, he walks up hands it to me and says I'm citing you for $124 for 10 over.

I look back and he's gone, walking back to his car...

I wanted to contest the ticket but the fact is I was speeding...

I am going to "Mitigate" this however, just on the grounds that if he saw the damn thing and it was that big of a road hazzard why didn't he do something about it? (The "Serve" part in "protect and serve".)

Am I off base on this, is the judge going to laugh me out of court?

 

[Phylodog]

Re: Dumb question for LE

Gonna depend on the judge. I could see a reasonable judge throwing it out due to the fact that you were distracted and the LEO admitted seeing the distraction also. As far as the LEO removing the raccoon from the road, we have city employees responsible for taking care of dead animals, if the LEO notified the appropriate people to have it removed I would think that he had done what was appropriate. Things don't work the same everywhere though so ymmv.

 

[Dagsta]

Re: Dumb question for LE

Well since I had to look at myself in the mirror every day, the thought of sitting at the bottom of a hill in a 25mph zone running radar would have dulled the image I see in that mirror.

Nuff said????

 

[Phil1]

Re: Dumb question for LE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm especially weary because there is a police station down at the bottom of the hill and they like to sit there and run radar...

I see a dead animal, medium size, and it's too late to swerve, BANG,...

In my distraction I hit 35mph...

Am I off base on this, is the judge going to laugh me out of court? </div></div>

wear·y/&#712;wi(&#601r&#275;/
Adjective: Feeling or showing tiredness, esp. as a result of excessive exertion or lack of sleep.

I assume that you meant wary(of the police station) not weary.

So your natural reaction upon spotting an obstruction in the roadway is to speed up? Most drivers slow down and would be looking in the rear view mirror while slowing down. To see what they ran over.

You never know what a judge will do but... I'd buy the weary("had a bad day, death in the family, distracted., not paying attention,")and likely not paying attention and speeding angle. If you were speeding its because the other issues on your mind precluded a more natural braking impulse upon seeing the dead animal and being unable to swerve because you never even noticed it until impact.

You should just throw it into a all-round bad day and pay the ticket. Be thankful that it wasn't your funeral. Then be thankful that it wasn't something bigger i.e. broken down semi,a kid,etc.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Dumb question for LE

My opinion: The last thing you'd want to say to a judge is "I was distracted" as they've grounds right there for nailing you with "Driving without due care and attention".

Couple of hundred bucks, right there. Around here it is, anyways.

Disclaimer section:
No, I ain't a LEO. (re-read the title....)
I don't play one on TV.
Did NOT sleep in Holiday Inn Express. Last night, or ever.

most importantly though, sorry about the loss of your family member.

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Dumb question for LE

Just go to court and ask for a defferal. You pay something like 50 bucks in court fee and the ticket goes away after 1 year provided you dont get cited for the same type of violation within the next year. It dosnt go on your record at all within the year either so good news for insurance.

If you do get another speeding ticket within the 1 year period you end up paying for the new ticket and the original.

Got my first speeding ticket ever last year and did the deferral thing and it just dropped off.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Dumb question for LE

Ya they do deferrals so I'll explain my story, tell him my record has been clean for 12 years...

The last ticket I got was in this car, in Seattle of course - I used to hit the carpool lane to get around the congestion at an exit, and on my LAST day at work in Seattle commuting home I whipped inot that carpool lane right in front of a state trooper. He had humor though and offered me 3 choices for a citation LOL...

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Dumb question for LE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phil1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So your natural reaction upon spotting an obstruction in the roadway is to speed up? </div></div>

No, it's a steep hill, the road is too narrow to swerve and I don't swerve for animals...
I was peering in the rear view mirror to see if it was moving...

It's one of their bread and butter radar trap.

I also no longer drive that route, it was shorter than the expressway but I take the expressway now to avoid the red light cameras, radar traps etc.

The city has bungled their money by investing in condo's that cost them 4 million and are being used as a homeless shelter, then they bought a $275,000 salmon sculpture and THEN laid off one cop.

So they are seemingly writing more tickets of late...

 

[Tactical]

Re: Dumb question for LE

Brother, California may be different but here are a few thoughts based on working here a long time:

Go down to PD and ask to see Traffic Surveys for that stretch of road. Generall the speed limit is set by Survey and sometimes they just hang a speed limit with no reason for it. No survey helps in your case.

I would go to talk with Judge and Plead Guilty with and Explanation. Then tell truth. You know area has lots of radar and where going down hill, when animal ran out. You attempted to miss animal but still hit. Distracted by what happened you allowed car to natuarally excellerate due to gravity

Due to the increase in adrenilan you did not notice your vehicle going faster because of stress of killing an animal.

Laugh if you like but I bet you get case thrown out.

Dont say one negative thing about police or officer and make sure Judge knows you always go 25 there because you know they constantly work radar there.

Hope this helps.

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Dumb question for LE

Usually when I take my eyes off the road for any reason, my natural reaction is to slow down by tapping on the break. You speed up while not looking? Odd.

Good luck with the ticket.

 

[Tactical]

Re: Dumb question for LE

Slap he was going down hill and gravity took over when he took foot off brake.

Slap he is one of the good guys cut him some slack.

Thankfully I did not work where I felt urge to run a radar gun. Stolen cars where so much easier to track down and no one who voted for raises ever drove a stolen car. LOL

 

[Wanderlust]

Re: Dumb question for LE

Seriously $124 for 10 over?? Then again the only speeding ticket I ever got was in Kitsap.

 

[M25BeastShooter]

Re: Dumb question for LE

Sorry sounds like one those chicken crap townie departments where the police are a defacto tax collection arm of the city council.
Knowing that I'd take the check book out pay your fee and move on. The odds of getting the Judge to see the common man's point of view vs the law will be unlikely.

You know its there, you know what the PD is up to.......take another route.

Some Officers are just asses......Oh by the way I'm LEO so

 

[Pat M]

Re: Dumb question for LE

Seattle area magistrates are a joke, you take time out from work to contest a ticket and all they say is "pay up" you you set a court date and miss another day of work

- had to go through it a couple times - once when cop gave me a ticket for no motorcycle insurance ( tried to tell them- WA dosen't require motorcycle insurance ), off to the magistrate ( tried to tell them- WA doesn't require motorcycle insurance ), " no pay up" - set court date - this time i got smart and went to local Sate patrol & xeroxed the law - take day off work , go before the judge "why don't you have insurance you need insurance" - give judge copy of law - they run it through computer - "ok" ticket dropped.

= "guilty until proven innocent"

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Dumb question for LE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Slap he was going down hill and gravity took over when he took foot off brake.

Slap he is one of the good guys cut him some slack.

Thankfully I did not work where I felt urge to run a radar gun. Stolen cars where so much easier to track down and no one who voted for raises ever drove a stolen car. LOL </div></div>

Sorry if I came across the wrong way. I was just trying to make sense of it. Personally I think the tag is a joke. I'm not a big summons guy but then again where I work there isn't much time to be sitting at a trap somewhere looking to hammer guys for 10 over. That problems seems to be more prevalent in smaller jurisdictions where there isn't much to do.

I hope it works out for the OP because is most places speed is deemed a "safety" violation and with it comes points on your license if convicted.

 

[shadowless_sword]

Re: Dumb question for LE

I'm sure its different in small towns where cops have nothing better to do, but the way I beat most of my tickets back in my youthful days when my driving at times was perhaps a bit faster than it should have been was to simply contest them. About 8-9 times out of 10 the cops never showed up to court and my ticket was simply thrown out. Keep in mind, that was in the city though.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Dumb question for LE

Again to all of those that said man up and pay this - Nope!

The judge agreed with my assessment. Lucky for me the officer wrote "Cat" and not Raccoon because after the fact I told her it was a dead Raccoon not a cat...and it made my car bounce.
To that the judge said "Raccoons killed my cat". To which I said "Well there's one less in the world now"...

I walked out of court not paying a dime today, and no ticket on my record.

Our tax collecting "License plate taillight" cops will just have to try again....

Except I quit driving through town, I go on teh highway now, State Patrol is honest and fair unlike the bremerton cops...

 

[kbrady]

Re: Dumb question for LE

Good to hear you got it taken care of. And you caught a break with a judge with a dislike of raccoons lol. Also, the difference between 25 and 35, whether on a decline or on flat pavement, is very hard to notice sometimes........I'm sure everyone on here is guilty of it.

 

[JMC]

Re: Dumb question for LE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wanderlust</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously $124 for 10 over?? Then again the only speeding ticket I ever got was in Kitsap. </div></div>

The lowest citation in Wisconsin for speeding is $175.30.

Glad to hear that you got everything worked out. Most judges I've seen are pretty good about working with people especially when they own their part of it.

JMC

 

[anthony1]

Re: Dumb question for LE

Ditto never just pay or plead guilty or no contest, every ticket I've ever gotten I showed up to court at the date and time given on the ticket and pled innocent. They will eventually get around to calling your name, plead innocent, 99% of the time on a simple ticket like this the prosecutor will come over and cut you a good deal. This has worked for everyone I have ever given this advice to as well.

Not to mention the worst possible outcome will be the same as just paying the ticket. You likely wont completely get off but usually they will offer something like- no points on your liscence and a reduced fine 99% of the time for something like this.

Just seen you did get off, good job, and for any doubters trust me always plead innocent.

 

[BountyHunter]

Re: Dumb question for LE

It is not the fine, it is the traffic points on your license that will hit you! Most states that is 3 points.

Your insurance company routinely pulls your DMV record and then "adjusts" your rates upwards based on the points until they come off your record, which is normally 3 years.

IF your state offers a "Driver Improvement" course take it and hire an attorney. Give him the certificate and he can routinely adjust the citation to something with no points.

BH

 

[rpk762]

Re: Dumb question for LE

I do not know how it works in WA but here in ND the state sets the fines. We had many towns just setting up new fines and they made a lot of cash until they made one woman mad and she started the process and sued them. Well long story short the cities that were over charging have to pay back the extra cash. $124 is a little high for 10mph.

 

[Shatuponthee]

Re: Dumb question for LE

I get more tickets then I would like to admit, if your insurance company is not going to raise your rates send them a check and save yourself the aggrivation, provided they don't have some point system where they upcharge you on your DL.

Unless you are so starved for entertainment then go and make sure that you keep us updated as to the outcome.

Its not the LEO's job to pick up road kill.

Regards as to the loss of a loved one, it sucks.

 

[kbrady]

Re: Dumb question for LE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shatuponthee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get more tickets then I would like to admit, if your insurance company is not going to raise your rates send them a check and save yourself the aggrivation, provided they don't have some point system where they upcharge you on your DL.

Unless you are so starved for entertainment then go and make sure that you keep us updated as to the outcome.

Its not the LEO's job to pick up road kill.

Regards as to the loss of a loved one, it sucks.</div></div>

Apparently it was worth his while because a few posts above yours he explained that he got out of it w/o paying a buck. It's not the money, it's the freakin principles. If everybody just sucked it up and paid the fine, there would be no motivation for LEO's to use more logic when they get the ole ticket book out.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Dumb question for LE

A big tool bag full of lathing nails(they look like roofing nails with a 1/2" round cardboard and stand right up upon receiving pressure) in the favorite hiding spot will cease and desist the radar position...safety hazard for tires, costs more money than it's worth, AND time out of position.

As to teh gravity, even my wee Buell can move from 20 to over 30 on a downhill if I look sideways and pull in the clutch, so a car can do it too.
Good Luck Arctic. I think Uncool Dude has the best idea on procedure on your part. The nails, well, I'm a bit vengeful if I see unjust things by government that I can do a little to persuade to stop silently

 

[Shatuponthee]

Re: Dumb question for LE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kbrady</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shatuponthee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get more tickets then I would like to admit, if your insurance company is not going to raise your rates send them a check and save yourself the aggrivation, provided they don't have some point system where they upcharge you on your DL.

Unless you are so starved for entertainment then go and make sure that you keep us updated as to the outcome.

Its not the LEO's job to pick up road kill.

Regards as to the loss of a loved one, it sucks.</div></div>

Apparently it was worth his while because a few posts above yours he explained that he got out of it w/o paying a buck. It's not the money, it's the freakin principles. If everybody just sucked it up and paid the fine, there would be no motivation for LEO's to use more logic when they get the ole ticket book out. </div></div>

It boils down to the value of your time. I calculated mine at $300 per hour. Just to show up to provide an explanation would be more than an hour of time lost. Time is the only thing that I cannot get back or buy back, but I can choose how to spend my time in the here and now. But if I were at $600 an hour I could afford to amuse myself if I wanted to.

And you are right regarding the logic of LEOs but no matter what you do they wont change. Being here on the border a border patrol agent in the last hour of thier shift doesnt care if an illegal passes because if they did their job it would be an additional 4 hours of paperwork. The LEOs are no different after dealing with the less than stellar members of society on a day in an day out basis. I cant fault them for wanting to home to their wife, kids, dog, and a cold beer.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Dumb question for LE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shatuponthee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And you are right regarding the logic of LEOs but no matter what you do they wont change. Being here on the border a border patrol agent in the last hour of thier shift doesnt care if an illegal passes because if they did their job it would be an additional 4 hours of paperwork. The LEOs are no different after dealing with the less than stellar members of society on a day in an day out basis. I cant fault them for wanting to home to their wife, kids, dog, and a cold beer. </div></div>

Generally speaking when I contest a ticket I do my research to find out what day off the LE has - and I reschedule my court day for his day off.

I have done this 3 times because I was innocent and a cop had a head game going on - so I did this and I won in court.

It's the principle, and yes it is the cops job whoever said it is not - cops are required to clear road hazards or call someone who can.
The Raccoon was flatter later in the evening but still there, had to be a 40 pounder.

Definite traffic hazard, not to mention the cop was parked at the bottom of a hill - pretty lame...but OK I'll give him that..

I have 3 friends on this department, all 3 agree this officer is short with people.

It's the principle of the matter.

 

[kbrady]

Re: Dumb question for LE

I could understand if it was an area where there were a lot of people walking or a high accident area, those areas need the speed limit enforced. Sitting at an area and playing with the radar just to ticket people is just being lazy, I don't care if it is the start of shift, or the end.

Again, glad to hear it worked out in your favor ArcticLight

 

[Shatuponthee]

Re: Dumb question for LE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shatuponthee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And you are right regarding the logic of LEOs but no matter what you do they wont change. Being here on the border a border patrol agent in the last hour of thier shift doesnt care if an illegal passes because if they did their job it would be an additional 4 hours of paperwork. The LEOs are no different after dealing with the less than stellar members of society on a day in an day out basis. I cant fault them for wanting to home to their wife, kids, dog, and a cold beer. </div></div>

Generally speaking when I contest a ticket I do my research to find out what day off the LE has - and I reschedule my court day for his day off.

I have done this 3 times because I was innocent and a cop had a head game going on - so I did this and I won in court.

It's the principle, and yes it is the cops job whoever said it is not - cops are required to clear road hazards or call someone who can.
The Raccoon was flatter later in the evening but still there, had to be a 40 pounder.

Definite traffic hazard, not to mention the cop was parked at the bottom of a hill - pretty lame...but OK I'll give him that..

I have 3 friends on this department, all 3 agree this officer is short with people.

It's the principle of the matter.</div></div>

That's pretty smart, the problem I have is that I am always guilty as hell.

 

[i_Adam_i18]

Re: Dumb question for LE

For me to glove up and pull it out of the road it's either gotta be a dog size or larger, or a traffic hazard. If people are swerving around it I'll pull it out of the road.

I also wouldn't have stopped you for doing 10 over, but I'm not a city guy. But if I did, I would probably have just laughed about you thumping a big ass raccoon and told you to drive safe.

Switch, All the nails are going to do is cost the taxpayers whatever a new set of tires costs, and make me really try to catch you throwing nails out so I can hook you up for malicious mischief. There are better ways to not get tickets, like not speeding... just an Idea.

ArticLight, that comment isn't directed toward you. I don't normally even stop people unless they are doing 12 over or more. And even then I'll cut people a break.

 

[dpairborneranger]

Re: Dumb question for LE

Our tickets are all about $20 bucks....but with that being said even if you don't go to court you have to pay court costs which is $134 added on to the $20. I don't really understand how they can charge someone court costs if they never go. I am a LEO and I completely disagree with this. If you do happen to get a ticket from me you did something obviously dumb while driving and then were a smartass to me. Not a real big fan of traffic stuff