- Thread starter Skeld1
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I wonāt hunt with a brake or be beside you if you do. Absolutely no reason to increase the likelihood of permanent hearing loss to mitigate recoil you usually donāt feel. āSpot your own missesā?! I donāt take shots where missing is a concern, and if there is a āmissā Iām not calling out a correction to myself and flinging another.
Like that video- āThree feet left...ā Be a marksman, show up ready to do your job. One shot, one kill.
I've hunted elk in a lot of western states and a few times guided.
Each guide have their personal recommendations.
That said the guided hunts I have been on have limited their shots to 200-300yds for higher probability of hit to kill.
Within that range, pick whatever you have or care to use; projectile replacement is critical. Those elk can take some heat and keep going a bit.
My own proclivities are a 300WM or 300PRC with +200gr projectiles.
Above all have a great time, elk hunting is addictive!
Each guide have their personal recommendations.
That said the guided hunts I have been on have limited their shots to 200-300yds for higher probability of hit to kill.
Within that range, pick whatever you have or care to use; projectile replacement is critical. Those elk can take some heat and keep going a bit.
My own proclivities are a 300WM or 300PRC with +200gr projectiles.
Above all have a great time, elk hunting is addictive!
If you donāt put ear protection on itās gonna ring your bell. Youāll hear chimes for a couple of days. If youāre hunting you donāt want a brake.
If youāre gonna build a rifle for elk, then youāre gonna wanna build one with enough ass behind it. 300wm, 7mm Mag, 300PRC. 6.5PRC hits harder than a .270 and is right up there with a 30-06. 30-06 and 270ās have stacked elk for alotta years.
Yes, 6.5CM, 308, 243 will do it with a good bullet and shot placement but why ride that line if you donāt have to. Itās all about energy. A good baseline for elk that I use, and a few others that I know of use is 1500 ft/lbs. run your ballistics for different calibers / bullet weight / velocities and check the energy at that yardage. 1500 ft/lbs will be your max range. For a 6.5CM, that may only be 300-400 yds.
Elk are tough. Bring a rifle with enough ass to put it down. My dad uses a 300wm for elk, im Building a 7mm Rem Mag, and I built my daughter a 6.5PRC. The kiddos only 85 lbs so Iām not about to put her behind a big magnum. 6.5PRC with some Beger VLDās, Nosler Accubonds or Partitions will do the job without giving her a flinch for the rest of her life. Lol
If youāre not so hot on magnums then the answer is(my opinion, obviously); .30-06 if you either reload or want factory ammo or 280ai if you reload
Buddy of mine bought me a pig hunt a few years ago. I've only used a bow for pigs for many years but since I'd started shooting long range regularly I thought I'd bring a rifle. Anyway I'm with my nephew and a "guide". We'd driven a side by side out to a ridge line to glass the area. Spotted a pig about a 100 yards away and he's wanting me to shoot it. I tell him it's too small and I don't want too. He keeps bugging me, saying we aren't going to get anything bigger. So I pull up and shoot over the back of it off hand. As we're walking back to the side by side he calls his buddy who is with the guy who bought the hunt. Tells him the guy with the fancy rifle couldn't hit a pig at 100 yards. My buddy tells the guide I'd said I wanted to shoot one a bit further away and that I could hit a pig with my bow at 100 yards.
So we start glassing another spot and some pigs, several are much larger, start feeding about 400 yards away downhill. I get a nice prone position and pick out the one I want to shoot. Why does a 10 in piece of steel seem fine at 400 yards and a 200 lb pig look small?
. Anyway the "guide" who was really annoying lays down right next to my muzzle with a lil bastard brake on it. I tell him to move, he's says he's good there. I tell him again that he should really move, he declines. Ok, I tell him which pig and and take the shot rolling the pig, pig stands up and I hit him again. The "guide starts screaming to stop shooting. . I've wondered how long it took for him to hear out of his left ear again.
If you want a 300 Win mag ..it'll get it the job done ,, but if you want to hunt elks i'd recommend a 338 win mag.
I had pro ears 300 elec earpro on, just like during shooting matches, zero issues.
One of the guys I am going with is putting together one of these. Probably not a great choice for me because I'm not a handloader, and I usually favor common calibers.
Appreciate all the feedback guys. Someone mentioned the Seekins Havak rifles and those look pretty nice.
I was thinking Vortex Viper PST2...do I go 3-15 or 5-25? Leaning towards 3-15. SFP or FFP?
BIL has a havok, light and shoots nice. i prefer ffp, just don't want to worry about reticle calculations in the heat of the moment. if you're sure you will dial v hold then sfp isn't an issue. the issue with ffp is if you have that 3-15 and you're in the dark timber at 3x, you won't have much of a reticle to work with (very thin). personally i'd pick the 3-15 and ffp. but yeah ask your guide what habitat and distances you'll be doing.
if you wanna go sorta custom, they make "prefit" systems now where you can buy a receiver, barrel, stock and trigger and put it all together relatively easily; no extensive gunsmithing tools or expertise needed. late last year i got a bighorn tl3 short action, proof carbon 6.5 prc barrel, krg bravo chassis and triggertech trigger and altus shooting solutions was nice enough to put it all together for me since i bought it all from them.
if you wanna go sorta custom, they make "prefit" systems now where you can buy a receiver, barrel, stock and trigger and put it all together relatively easily; no extensive gunsmithing tools or expertise needed. late last year i got a bighorn tl3 short action, proof carbon 6.5 prc barrel, krg bravo chassis and triggertech trigger and altus shooting solutions was nice enough to put it all together for me since i bought it all from them.
I don't think you really need to get into get ffp/sfp argument as I'm sure the guide won't be setting you up for a long shot. I have a NX8 2.5-20 that I find as a nice hunting optic.
If it were me I'd go find a off the shelf rifle and shoot a hundred rounds or so. Look at Win m70, sako 85, seekins havok, Tikka, Christiansen arms, etc.
The guide my FIL uses set the 30-06 as a minimum. So no 270's, 280's, 6.5's or 308 based cartridges.
So before you get too wrapped up into whats the best, or into dick measuring on here with some, you should reach out and ask your guide.
If it were me I'd go find a off the shelf rifle and shoot a hundred rounds or so. Look at Win m70, sako 85, seekins havok, Tikka, Christiansen arms, etc.
The guide my FIL uses set the 30-06 as a minimum. So no 270's, 280's, 6.5's or 308 based cartridges.
So before you get too wrapped up into whats the best, or into dick measuring on here with some, you should reach out and ask your guide.
I dont like vortex to much but if your going to spend the money id try a leupold mark 5 light weight. They sell factory ammo for 280 ackley but those are very nice rifles but honestly dont shy away from bergara. Id go 7mm rem mag or any easy to get rifle. My opinion dont worry to much on custom if its only a limit use but spend more time shooting and practicing with it. Just cuz you have custom doesnt always mean it will shoot better or make shot for you
No need to build a 7.5lb 300 WM theyāre for sale in classified sections all over the internet, usually at a heavy discount. Turns out those rifles are a lot more fun to shoot on paper than IRL.
I have killed a lot of elk. From central Montana through most of Wyoming. I have also witnessed a whole lot more elk harvested. This conversation always turns into a shit show. At the end of the day elk are not magic and donāt require Uber lasers to kill them. However the are not eastern white tails either. With out a whole lot of bullshit opinion, I run 215 Bergers at 3050 out of a 28ā 300 win mag. With luck we will carve notches 17,18,19 on this rifle this fall. This combo just works.
YMMV
Thanks
Kyle
YMMV
Thanks
Kyle
I've hunted elk the last two years in Colorado and two years in Washington in the past. Over the counter, public land, spike camping, DIY.
By no means am I an expert elk hunter, but if you're not on horseback I can attest that you should strive to show up in the best physical shape you can. Elk hunting is tough business and from the point of harvest the hunt becomes even tougher.
As for caliber, most of the guys I've hunted with were running 7mm remington magnum, 300 winchester magnum, or .30-06. Sounded like they've all done well when given the opportunity. I opted for a different caliber... a big .30 cal because I like to shoot at distance, I reload, and I wanted to take advantage of the big Berger 245 EOL.
I anchored my bull last year and have no doubt it will continue to do so in the future.
To answer your questions... I would favor the 300 over the 6.5 CM. You'll get more behind the 300 WM. And yes you can comfortably build a rifle that is sub 10lbs in a chassis or with a traditional stock. I've got two going to buddies in MPA Ultralights and mine is in a manners. All sub 10lbs.
300 Norma Magnum with 245 Berger EOLs @2948 fps
89 grains of N570
Tuebor Ti
Proof 24" 1:8 Sendero
Manners EH1A
Hawkins metal
TBAC Ultra 7
Vortex Razor LHT
By no means am I an expert elk hunter, but if you're not on horseback I can attest that you should strive to show up in the best physical shape you can. Elk hunting is tough business and from the point of harvest the hunt becomes even tougher.
As for caliber, most of the guys I've hunted with were running 7mm remington magnum, 300 winchester magnum, or .30-06. Sounded like they've all done well when given the opportunity. I opted for a different caliber... a big .30 cal because I like to shoot at distance, I reload, and I wanted to take advantage of the big Berger 245 EOL.
I anchored my bull last year and have no doubt it will continue to do so in the future.
To answer your questions... I would favor the 300 over the 6.5 CM. You'll get more behind the 300 WM. And yes you can comfortably build a rifle that is sub 10lbs in a chassis or with a traditional stock. I've got two going to buddies in MPA Ultralights and mine is in a manners. All sub 10lbs.
300 Norma Magnum with 245 Berger EOLs @2948 fps
89 grains of N570
Tuebor Ti
Proof 24" 1:8 Sendero
Manners EH1A
Hawkins metal
TBAC Ultra 7
Vortex Razor LHT
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If it can be avoided dont do it.
I shot three pigs with one of my 6.8spc rifles with a surefire brake on it and couldnt hear shit for several hours.
Thats from a fairly mild round, a braked 300wm is a whole other beast.
Get a set of earplugs that are attached by a lanyard and just wear them around your neck.
They dont weigh shit and are fast and easy to put in.
This right here ^
I have known more than a handful of guys with serious hearing damage that can trace it back to an isolated instance or handful of instances. Hunting with a brake is one of the riskiest things I EVER see endorsed. I canāt understand it.
Thereās a thread on here about shooting next to a guy whose reloads were done by āa buddyā. The ammo ended up too long and the guy was having problems. Guys are telling the OP to run for the hills, not even to shoot the same stage as the guy. The guy is a Darwin Award nominee and only moments away from collecting. Maybeā¦ But letās be real for a minute, chances are pretty good that this guy could hammer in a second round with a squib in the barrel and not kill himself, thereās a very good chance he doesnāt get seriously hurt (rifle is pooched). Standing behind him watching? Almost zero chance of injury, itād have to be a fluke. And for him, even if he does blow a finger off and severely lacerate his hand he probably wonāt reflect on that day with tears in his eyes 20 years from now. But you take that same guy and ask him why he canāt hear his grand daughter giggle and watch him as he tells you about his shooting history.
Itās horrible advice we need to stop.
If you must hunt with a brake, the why not invest in some waterproof electronic muffs. I don't understand the need for a brake in hunting situation. Anyone next to you will also pay the price.
Bell's two favorite rifles for elephant were a 7x57 (aka .275 rigby) and a 6.5x54 Manlicher, of course, that was with the heavy for caliber round nose full metal jacket like the 175 for the 7x57 and I believe the 160 for the 6.5. Very deep penetration and fairly mild recoil.Big deep penetrating solid bullets were made for dangerous game because you might have to shoot it head on in close quarters while under attack. The water buffalo and hippo are often in heavy cover. African game is physiologically different with more compact vital organs. They are simply put, tougher to kill than North Ameircan game. 30/06 is popular in some areas. One of my friends father, took his water buffalo with a 375 H&H and Zebra and bunch of smaller stuff with a 30/06.
Big slow moving bullets have shitty trajectories, short PBR zeros, and in general more disadvantages than advantages most anywhere you will be hunting Elk in CO.
W. D. M. Bell - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The .300 WM is an excellent choice.
So is the 7 mm RM.
So is the 30'06 and .280.
A 7mm LRM firing the heavy 175-180 class bullets is hard to beat.
A 6.5 PRC pushing the 156-160 class bullets like the Berger 156 or Woodleigh 160 protected point will definitely get the job done.
I bought suppressors, specifically because suppressors and tax stamps are cheaper than hearing aides. I wore ear plugs in the shop a lot too. I didn't want to be like all the ole mechanics saying "HUH?" all the time.
Just remember you can shoot at target from long range for fun any day of the week. But to stalk up on your elk so close that you can hear it's rustling steps and nothing else besides your pounding heart, that is the thrill of a lifetime.
This.
I got my oldest in a heard of elk last fall. It was thick brush and we just sat as they walked by feeding. There wasn't a shooter for us, but i think that lit a fire for him.
300 winmag gets my vote. I've been shooting one since I was 14, it was actually my first centerfire rifle. So I may be a little biased. Not real sure it's needed for SE Texas whitetail but it sure does a good job.
One of my other favorites is a 22-250. Probably killed more deer and pigs with that round than my win mags over the years. Probably because it was what I carried the most.
Shot placement is key but I've never caught myself complaining about having too much gun.
One of my other favorites is a 22-250. Probably killed more deer and pigs with that round than my win mags over the years. Probably because it was what I carried the most.
Shot placement is key but I've never caught myself complaining about having too much gun.
Who's going to build this rifle in 3 months? No one. You're off the rack, or an as-built only at this point.
I'm going at the end of September with a bow tag. If I can drop one with an arrow then most of the "advice" in this thread is bullshit. A .308 you can shoot and hit the boiler house with is far, far better than some new wildcat you can't hit shit with. I seriously doubt that a guide is going to let some East Coast hunter, whose never been elk hunting, even shoot 500 yards. I certainly wouldn't. The .308 is most likely fine at the distances you'll be allowed to shoot. You're not going to be shooting across a drainage. If he doesn't put you on the elk it's not happening.
Remember, I'm going with a bow and hope to get one shot at a bull under 40 yards. What I wouldn't give to have a .308 when/if I get my chance.
I'm going at the end of September with a bow tag. If I can drop one with an arrow then most of the "advice" in this thread is bullshit. A .308 you can shoot and hit the boiler house with is far, far better than some new wildcat you can't hit shit with. I seriously doubt that a guide is going to let some East Coast hunter, whose never been elk hunting, even shoot 500 yards. I certainly wouldn't. The .308 is most likely fine at the distances you'll be allowed to shoot. You're not going to be shooting across a drainage. If he doesn't put you on the elk it's not happening.
Remember, I'm going with a bow and hope to get one shot at a bull under 40 yards. What I wouldn't give to have a .308 when/if I get my chance.
@psinclair has dropped a couple with one of those weak ass .308sā¦ā¦
@Fig - having mostly rifle hunted, Im not sure how easy it is.
I do know one of my best friends dropped his 14th bull with a bow last year in 18 seasons (and 1 cow). Furthest shot is 18 yds to date. All on public land in CO with plenty of pressure.
Sometimes distance is needed.
Often patience is.
You coming to CO? If so, We shall have whisky!!!
@Fig - having mostly rifle hunted, Im not sure how easy it is.
I do know one of my best friends dropped his 14th bull with a bow last year in 18 seasons (and 1 cow). Furthest shot is 18 yds to date. All on public land in CO with plenty of pressure.
Sometimes distance is needed.
Often patience is.
You coming to CO? If so, We shall have whisky!!!
This will do the job, 9-3/4 lbs with scope.
www.snipershide.com
Firearms - (SOLD) 300 prc Custom Build
For sale is a 300 prc built on a Kelbly Atlas Tactical action. Barrel is a 26" Proof Research 1:9 twist with the muzzle threaded for a nice seamless fit muzzle brake. Barreld action is pillar bedded into a Manners EH1 stock. Trigger is a Bix & Andy Tac Sport and brakes super nice at just about...
www.snipershide.com
Ok "resident gun guy", go check.
3 months is warp speed under normal conditions from my experience, and I have five built rifles. I think the fastest I've ever received one is probably three months from MPA, and it was pretty much set up exactly like Phil's (very standard components). If not then you're going to be confined to a "locally reputable" smith with any components he has on hand, which are pretty scarce at this point. People have been waiting more than six months for the barrel they want.
More stuff is in stock now for sure, but there is a huge backlog of rifles from any "reputable" smith I know. Type in "lead times" into the search bar, and see what kinds of threads come up Resident Gun Guy. I think you will be surprised. I see lots of off the rack rifles in stock, and I see lots of orders for custom guns that have yet to be filled. Then again, I'm not the resident gun guy on SH, so you probably know more.
That is not to say you can't find a "custom" rifle in stock. Altus has some nice ones ready to go: https://www.altusshooting.com/collections/ready-to-ship-rifles, but I don't think you know what you're talking about if you want one built to your specs in 3 months, not to mention time for load development and to get comfortable behind it for your first elk hunt.
Why don't you check with someone in the industry about lead times @THEIS ? Things are still jacked up and will be for a while.
P.S. I see several builders are quoting 2-6 months for delivery. Lol. Which end do you think it will be? Under promising and over delivering does not seem to be a maxim in custom rifles...
3 months is warp speed under normal conditions from my experience, and I have five built rifles. I think the fastest I've ever received one is probably three months from MPA, and it was pretty much set up exactly like Phil's (very standard components). If not then you're going to be confined to a "locally reputable" smith with any components he has on hand, which are pretty scarce at this point. People have been waiting more than six months for the barrel they want.
More stuff is in stock now for sure, but there is a huge backlog of rifles from any "reputable" smith I know. Type in "lead times" into the search bar, and see what kinds of threads come up Resident Gun Guy. I think you will be surprised. I see lots of off the rack rifles in stock, and I see lots of orders for custom guns that have yet to be filled. Then again, I'm not the resident gun guy on SH, so you probably know more.
That is not to say you can't find a "custom" rifle in stock. Altus has some nice ones ready to go: https://www.altusshooting.com/collections/ready-to-ship-rifles, but I don't think you know what you're talking about if you want one built to your specs in 3 months, not to mention time for load development and to get comfortable behind it for your first elk hunt.
Why don't you check with someone in the industry about lead times @THEIS ? Things are still jacked up and will be for a while.
P.S. I see several builders are quoting 2-6 months for delivery. Lol. Which end do you think it will be? Under promising and over delivering does not seem to be a maxim in custom rifles...
Especially your dog (or horse) if you hunt with one... haven't seen too many muffs for pups nor too many pups that tolerate muffs.
I'm 40 as of this year. I'm an Appalachian kid versus a Rockies kid - yup, the altitude makes a difference (been out there and gassed enough to know). That being said, my position is if you're thinking about a brake on a (un-surpressed) hunting gun you either need more mass, more skill, or some combination of both. Figure out the heaviest gun you're willing the carry, figure out the most recoil you'll tolerate, get the most appropo caliber for the job within those contraints... and then practice until you can make the shots you'll need to make.
Oddly, the "I carry my 25 lb PRS rig to hunt with no problems" crowd hasn't shown up here yet to shame us all for even thinking about the weight of a hunting gun. That being said, it's all about compromises and trade offs. If my gun weight and PT/conditioning mean I don't get a shot, but I can keep my hearing... I'll take my hearing. Just a thought.
Without ear pro?
Just. Donāt. Do. It.
Ever.
Seriously. It will destroy your hearing and leave you with tinnitus for the rest of your life.
I did it 5 years ago (3 shots with a 6.5 SAUM with brake) and my right ear has constant ringing. It sucks.
If you assemble the parts, @Shooter71 can build you a great shooting rifle in a month. Been there, done that.
Perhaps it is just your blatant attempts at sarcasm and general "I know everything" attitude as the "Janitor of the Hide". Alright hero, I'll play... I've got two builders lined up right now... rifle can be done in two weeks and three weeks for the other (because of travel time). Check to you.
Congratulations on your "five built rifles". Want to measure dick size now too?
Paul @ evolved has 57 proof carbon fiber blanks in stock right now... fairly common build specs for several hunting calibers. https://evolvedballistics.com/barrels/bolt-action-carbon-fiber/
I don't buy "custom" rifles that are "in stock".
Maybe if you sit down, shut up, and stay in your corner for a few rather than trying to talk about something you clearly know nothing of - but think that you do - you might find the OP has an opportunity to get himself a custom rifle with time to shoot it and prepare for an elk hunt.
Not entering the peeing contest but deep south tactical gets stuff out pretty fast if you have everything for the build. But also you can find custom built rifles ready to go from smiths also. And to touch on the brakes yes the big open brakes are very loud but i hunt with brakes that have holes all over isnt very bad at all but i only used 2 shots this past year 1 for my deer and 1 for elk. Not saying it might bite me in the butt later but i already work around loud little machines
Yup I hunt with brakes on both mine and my daughters riffles. Make sure youāre wearing ear pro. My 12 y/o daughter torched one off at an elk in Utah out of her 16.5ā 6.5CM and Area 419 Hell Fire Brake and neither of us had our ear pro in. Didnāt even care about the elk at that point. Fucking brutal. DONT DO THAT
Iām sorry but the whole āNo 7mm Magā rule is freakin retarded. Jack O Connor was stackin African plains game and literally every critter in North America in the fifties , early 60ās with a .270 and 150gn bullets and them African plains animals are bigger than our elk and just as tough. animals are still the same size and toughness as they were back then, but our bullet / rifle design have gotten better as well as our knowledge of marksmanship, ballistics and how the environment plays a part in that shot were fixing to take, which in turn, allows us to extend our effective distance.
Seriously I have all the respect in the world for the ol timers and the elders 100%, they got a lot of wisdom and life experience, but some times they gonna dig them heels in and be set in their ways. Period. Shoot back in the day, the rifle came out of the closet when hunting season started, took it to the range and if you could hit a 10ā pie plate at 200yds your gun was zerod and good enogh. After the hunt, it went back into the closest for the rest of the year.
7mm Rem Mags, have been killin elk deader that dead since 62 and the 300WM in 1963. 264 WMās and 270ās were in that mix too. And ever since itās been a pissing contest between big and slow versus fast and flat, and then pump the animals up like theyāre amped up cocaine and PCP and wearing sappi plates that require a big 30 cal to kill.
Itās funny, my kiddo stacks dimes at the range at distance with her 16.5ā 6.5CM. My dad is a big āmust have a Long Action 30 cal to kill an elkā Lol, To the point where he donāt see the issue putting her little 105lb body behind a 30-06 and a 180gn bullet to kill that elk cuz the 6.5PRC isnāt enough bullet.which is gonna impart a flinch on her that Iām gonna have to fix. Lol
itās about how much energy that Bullet hits your target with, where it hits your target and what the bullet does after that. the 1500 ftlbs / energy rule dictate the distance for Elk. Iāve also heard 1200+ ftlbs ebergy for elk. Regardless, whatever it is, it gives you an idea what your rifles effective effective range based on the animal your shooting . If you got 1500ftlbs +/-!of energy behind that bullet at the range youāre fixin shoot that critter, and youre confident that you can make the shot, then take the shot.
Rant overā¦ lol
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Hearing loss is cumulative, one loud thing doesn't cancel another out, it adds to it.
I think a lot of guys over the years have been shooting the āsame gunā without realizing it. By that, I mean theyāve been getting similar results a lot of different ways. They donāt know why what theyāre doing works, but theyāre gonna argue about it. Thatās our nature.
oh I agree 100% man. everybodies got their own ideas, and what theyāre āusedā to doing. Or what theyāve been taught. Cool. You do you, ima do me. 300wm kills elk just fine and so do various other calibers if you stay within its and your own limits .
Like bro, you wanna shoot that elk with a 300gn Berger from 40 yards away just to make sure you got enough ass behind your bullet to kill, right on, do you. Ima be over here with my 7 mag doing me.
RWS built my homies full spec Mk13 300wm and had it back to him in like 2 weeks
obviously thereās varying circumstances between smiths, but there are smiths out there that will flat get after it.
Not everyone takes a 6 months to a year to get a rifle back to you u.
Not my rule just know them and thats what they say. They really like 30 cals they say they get alot of hunters that cant shoot and the 30 cals help with bad hits. But there bulls are $10,000 and up i think the avg was 350 a few years ago. But i hunt with 7s no issues hunted with 300 win mag no issues 6.5 alot no issues
