Employment musing

[TurboTrout]

Some states seem confused about free market and freedom (duh I know)

Two things which should NOT go together AT WILL EMPLOYMENT -and- making non compete and training bonds (where you must work for X amount of time or face a fee) legally enforceable.

It’s ether free market (my fav), or more like a odd professional marriage.

If you’re free to fire me for any reason, I should be free to work for whomever I want in my off time, and also fire you as my employer at any time for any reason.

 

[mahlv]

Its kinda like the crooked river mantra (they get crooked by following the path of least resistance). If the state can just lay their dick out there, with no effort, and still get it sucked, then why the hell put any more effort into it? The policies/procedures I've endured, as an employer, in a "right to work state" are way f'd up. The system is completely set up to take the money, give it to any POS that makes an unemployment claim, and leave all the fighting and administration work up to the employer if they want to get that money back.

 

[quietmike]

I can see the contract to work for so long if the employer pays for specialized training of some sort.

 

[TurboTrout]

Its kinda like the crooked river mantra (they get crooked by following the path of least resistance). If the state can just lay their dick out there, with no effort, and still get it sucked, then why the hell put any more effort into it? The policies/procedures I've endured, as an employer, in a "right to work state" are way f'd up. The system is completely set up to take the money, give it to any POS that makes an unemployment claim, and leave all the fighting and administration work up to the employer if they want to get that money back.

Thought it was backward, where right to work means they can fire you at any time?

 

[918v]

Some states seem confused about free market and freedom (duh I know)

Two things which should NOT go together right to work (dumb name; it’s the right for your boss to can anyone for any reason any time) AND making non compete and training bonds (where you must work for X amount of time or face a fee) legally enforceable.

It’s ether free market (my fav), or more like a odd professional marriage.

If you’re free to fire me for any reason, I should be free to work for whomever I want in my off time, and also fire you as my employer at any time for any reason.

That’s not what “right to work” means. Right to work means the employee is not forced to join a labor union in order to remain employed.

You’re confusing “right to work” with “at will employment.”

 

[TurboTrout]

I can see the contract to work for so long if the employer pays for specialized training of some sort.

What about the time I have invested and the better offers I could have taken, if I’m fired for no good reason the employer should have to pay me

If a employer is worried about people leaving them, problem might be the employer.

 

[TurboTrout]

That’s not what “right to work” means. Right to work means the employee is not forced to join a labor union in order to remain employed.

You’re confusing “right to work” with “at will employment.”

Thanks

Fixed it

 

[Beefmanne]

What about the time I have invested and the better offers I could have taken, if I’m fired for no good reason the employer should have to pay me

If a employer is worried about people leaving them, problem might be the employer.

Then take those offers and shut the fuck up. An employer’s job is to make money for themselves, as well as it’s the employees job to make money for himself. If it is mutually beneficial then we have a good employment situation, if not then each party has to make decisions.

 

[308pirate]

Its kinda like the crooked river mantra (they get crooked by following the path of least resistance). If the state can just lay their dick out there, with no effort, and still get it sucked, then why the hell put any more effort into it? The policies/procedures I've endured, as an employer, in a "right to work state" are way f'd up. The system is completely set up to take the money, give it to any POS that makes an unemployment claim, and leave all the fighting and administration work up to the employer if they want to get that money back.

"Right to work" only means that you cannot be compelled to join a labor union as a condition of employment in a position covered by a labor bargaining agreement.

Nothing more.

The opposite of that is a "closed shop" state.

All kinds of UI compensation fuckery exists in RTW and closed shop states both.

 

[308pirate]

What about the time I have invested and the better offers I could have taken, if I’m fired for no good reason the employer should have to pay me

If a employer is worried about people leaving them, problem might be the employer.

Then don't take the job or decline the training. Otherwise fuck off.

 

[308pirate]

Thought it was backward, where right to work means they can fire you at any time?

You don't even know basic labor law terms and here you are ranting against what employers can or can't do? LOL GTFO

Here's a newsflash for you: nobody is coercing you to take a job in which you have to sign a non-compete or post-employment confidentiality agreement.

So either take the fucking job on the employer's terms (because it's HIS job, not yours), go work somewhere else, or be your own fucking boss.

Either way, STFU

BTW, you're free to leave any time you want after an employer has given you money for education/training. You just have to pay it back if you don't hold up your end of the bargain.

Dumb ass

 

[quietmike]

What about the time I have invested and the better offers I could have taken, if I’m fired for no good reason the employer should have to pay me

If a employer is worried about people leaving them, problem might be the employer.

The time you have invested isn't as valuable.
That's why fry cooks don't make machinist money.

 

[dragman]

It's gonna get really interesting in a lot of markets IMHO. Every area is different but around here tons of businesses are shutting down or cutting hours because of labor shortage. LOL I don't buy it. Every market sets itself raise your pay until people are willing to work, then adjust your costs to what you want to make.
If you don't want to work for a wage don't! If you have work and can't get anyone to work raise your wages. It's really simple.
As for compete clauses If the person is that good you should be willing to keep em.

 

[akmike47]

It's gonna get really interesting in a lot of markets IMHO. Every area is different but around here tons of businesses are shutting down or cutting hours because of labor shortage. LOL I don't buy it. Every market sets itself raise your pay until people are willing to work, then adjust your costs to what you want to make.
If you don't want to work for a wage don't! If you have work and can't get anyone to work raise your wages. It's really simple.
As for compete clauses If the person is that good you should be willing to keep em.

Everyone has hiring signs but magically “just hired someone” and never take the sign down. Apply nd never hear shit back, I don’t think a lot of these places are really hiring.

Are companies getting gov money and need to pretend to be hiring to keep getting it? There’s places I frequent I’ve applied and never any new faces.

 

[308pirate]

Every market sets itself raise your pay until people are willing to work, then adjust your costs to what you want to make.

It's not that simple. Not even fucking close.......

 

[FWoo45]

Everyone has hiring signs but magically “just hired someone” and never take the sign down. Apply nd never hear shit back, I don’t think a lot of these places are really hiring.

Are companies getting gov money and need to pretend to be hiring to keep getting it? There’s places I frequent I’ve applied and never any new faces.

My experience has been the opposite. I had eight people ghost confirmed interviews because they could use the confirmation as proof that they “are looking for a job” and stay on the dole.

 

[EddieNFL]

Everyone has hiring signs but magically “just hired someone” and never take the sign down. Apply nd never hear shit back, I don’t think a lot of these places are really hiring.

Are companies getting gov money and need to pretend to be hiring to keep getting it? There’s places I frequent I’ve applied and never any new faces.

When we were hiring, I would review resumes and toss or put in a maybe and an almost definitely stack. I would get calls from the tossed batch and my response was, "We already filled the position."

I'm sure businesses with constant turn-over leave the signs up.

 

[akmike47]

When we were hiring, I would review resumes and toss or put in a maybe and an almost definitely stack. I would get calls from the tossed batch and my response was, "We already filled the position."

I'm sure businesses with constant turn-over leave the signs up.

I’m getting that answer before I ever apply. It’s small businesses with no new faces ever, and I’m not known there.

 

[308pirate]

I would get calls from the tossed batch and my response was, "We already filled the position."

Yep. Anything more is just asking for trouble.

 

[308pirate]

I’m getting that answer before I ever apply

How do you get a rejection before you apply?

How does that work?

 

[Ravenworks]

How many would take a job at a candlestick factory ?

Think about it, here's a person that gets to work on time is always willing to work over if they have to and are always smiling while they work.

Waxing your wick 8 hours a day would be an easy job, IMHO.

 

[akmike47]

How do you get a rejection before you apply?

How does that work?

Asking if someone is still hiring isn’t applying, it’s inquiring.

 

[TurboTrout]

The time you have invested isn't as valuable.
That's why fry cooks don't make machinist money.

I’m not talking teens working fast food.

I’m talking folks who probably make more than your machinist

Maybe if you’re hiring people and have such a toxic culture you feel you need to trap your talent, you shouldn’t be protected, meet the employment market so folks don’t leave, or eat the turnover.

Again, I’m for fully free market, I have no right to my job with the place, but they have no right to my employment with them or what I do off the clock.

Free market, it’s ether free both ways, or you ain’t for free market

 

[TurboTrout]

You don't even know basic labor law terms and here you are ranting against what employers can or can't do? LOL GTFO

Here's a newsflash for you: nobody is coercing you to take a job in which you have to sign a non-compete or post-employment confidentiality agreement.

So either take the fucking job on the employer's terms (because it's HIS job, not yours), go work somewhere else, or be your own fucking boss.

Either way, STFU

BTW, you're free to leave any time you want after an employer has given you money for education/training. You just have to pay it back if you don't hold up your end of the bargain.

Dumb ass

Actually they are.

There have been more than a few jobs where I wasted a good deal of my time with multiple interviews, and other screening, only to have them spring some non compete or training bond BS at the very last minute.

I know it’s demographics and party line and all to blindly support anything that supports businesses and not employees, but it’s kinda short sighted across the board.

It needs to be free for both sides, government shouldn’t helping ether side hold the other side hostage.

 

[308pirate]

There have been more than a few jobs where I wasted a good deal of my time with multiple interviews, and other screening, only to have them spring some non compete or training bond BS at the very last minute.

It IS free

The employer is FREE to impose conditions on the jobs they own and you are FREE to not take those jobs

You're NOT free to fuck an employer over by denying them a return on their investment in you and your NOT free to fuck an employer over by taking your knowledge of their PROPRIETARY information to their competitors.

You're just a fucking hypocrite who wants it free just for you.

 

[308pirate]

Asking if someone is still hiring isn’t applying, it’s inquiring.

So, help me see this.....how did the conversation go?

Hey I saw a sign outside, are you hiring?

No, we're not.

How is that a problem?

 

[Maggot]

`Work?

 

[quietmike]

I’m not talking teens working fast food.

I’m talking folks who probably make more than your machinist

Maybe if you’re hiring people and have such a toxic culture you feel you need to trap your talent, you shouldn’t be protected, meet the employment market so folks don’t leave, or eat the turnover.

Again, I’m for fully free market, I have no right to my job with the place, but they have no right to my employment with them or what I do off the clock.

Free market, it’s ether free both ways, or you ain’t for free market

You freely sign the employment/non-compete contract.
This is no different than those with masters degrees in lesbian dance appreciation wanting someone else to pay their college loans because they can't find a job in their field.
You signed up for it, now enjoy the ride.

 

[dragman]

It's not that simple. Not even fucking close.......

No actually it is!
Doesn't matter what you the product or service is either.
1 - If you don't have the employees to be open and make money you go out of business. You can cry about no help etc but you eventually go out of business if you're not open to provide the service or product
2 - You raise the wages until you get employees that let you be open as much as your wanting too. Yes you have to defer the cost to the final product, but you at least have a chance. Doesn't mean it will work but it's better than sitting and doing nothing.
3 - The labor cost in most things is small potatoes compared to other costs. I own a few businesses

 

[EddieNFL]

Asking if someone is still hiring isn’t applying, it’s inquiring.

I would occasionally get a walk-in. Hired one here and there, but a few I cutoff really quick because of appearance, attitude or just a vibe. I never completely bought the cliche about a book and it's cover.

No insult intended. Maybe they know you hangout on SH.

 

[akmike47]

I would occasionally get a walk-in. Hired one here and there, but a few I cutoff really quick because of appearance, attitude or just a vibe. I never completely bought the cliche about a book and it's cover.

No insult intended. Maybe they know you hangout on SH.

Not everyone is an idiot, I don’t go looking for work dressed or acting like one. I didn’t ask what’s wrong with me, and I’ve helped do hiring.

The same places have had signs since right after this BS started with no new employees, that’s the point. It’s as though they are pretending to be looking.

Also I don’t give the info for them to know I’m on here, they don’t know anything about me for that to even be a thought. If they leave help wanted signs up year round do to turn over, maybe they need to figure out why no one wants to stick around. I doubt it’s all everyone else, and nothing they are or aren’t doing.

 

[EddieNFL]

Not everyone is an idiot, I don’t go looking for work dressed or acting like one. I didn’t ask what’s wrong with me, and I’ve helped do hiring.

The same places have had signs since right after this BS started with no new employees, that’s the point. It’s as though they are pretending to be looking.

Also I don’t give the info for them to know I’m on here, they don’t know anything about me for that to even be a thought. If they leave help wanted signs up year round do to turn over, maybe they need to figure out why no one wants to stick around. I doubt it’s all everyone else, and nothing they are or aren’t doing.

- As I mentioned, no insult intended. I was just making conversation about the subject.

- The SH remark was a joke.

 

[akmike47]

- As I mentioned, no insult intended. I was just making conversation about the subject.

- The SH remark was a joke.

I’ve seen people not get hired for online shit, they didn’t know people knew them. Joke or not could still be a factor.

 

[308pirate]

No actually it is!
Doesn't matter what you the product or service is either.
1 - If you don't have the employees to be open and make money you go out of business. You can cry about no help etc but you eventually go out of business if you're not open to provide the service or product
2 - You raise the wages until you get employees that let you be open as much as your wanting too. Yes you have to defer the cost to the final product, but you at least have a chance. Doesn't mean it will work but it's better than sitting and doing nothing.
3 - The labor cost in most things is small potatoes compared to other costs. I own a few businesses

You have zero chance if you can't make a profit

Your customers have a say in how much you can fuck them price-wise

Direct labor may be small potatoes, until you apply the burdened costs that come with it.

 

[TurboTrout]

No actually it is!
Doesn't matter what you the product or service is either.
1 - If you don't have the employees to be open and make money you go out of business. You can cry about no help etc but you eventually go out of business if you're not open to provide the service or product
2 - You raise the wages until you get employees that let you be open as much as your wanting too. Yes you have to defer the cost to the final product, but you at least have a chance. Doesn't mean it will work but it's better than sitting and doing nothing.
3 - The labor cost in most things is small potatoes compared to other costs. I own a few businesses

So what about the employer fucking someone over, or is Caesar beyond reproach?

It’s simple I just don’t work for the shit birds, and I see the adds as they are always looking for people with their turnover, and it’s not baby, nah it’s all those workers

My state is one of the better ones, but it’s sad to see they will back even the most cockroach chop shop business over a employee.

If the state says you can shit can a employee, employee should be able to shit can the job full stop.

Guess you’re just more a big gov guy than I am

 

[kimbergoldmatch]

Run the agreement by a Labor Attorney before signing to see what’s enforceable in your state and what’s not.

 

[seanh]

That’s not what “right to work” means. Right to work means the employee is not forced to join a labor union in order to remain employed.

You’re confusing “right to work” with “at will employment.”

Correct, unfortunately attorneys a
and even judges get this incorrect sometimes

 

[seanh]

Non compete? Depending on what state you live in depends on what that term means.

A guy I used to work with, owner of the company sued him for exactly that... Owner had to pay him about 10 grand to go work for the competition....lol.

 

[gigamortis]

I've gotten up and left quite a few jobs during orientation right after I got hired. When they whip out a non-compete clause, that is one of the biggest red flags one will ever see about how a company really operates. Another good one that will cause me to get up and leave an orientation is a shirt tails must be tucked in policy. If the employer is concerned with loose clothing getting caught up in something, then their machine guarding sucks. Another sign to get up and walk out is mandatory pre-task briefs. This means the company is staffed with a bunch of clueless workers that can't think for themselves in an industrial environment. These clueless useful idiots are the ones that make up the bulk of safety incidents. Skilled trade labor is in high demand right now, and no tradesman needs to put up with any useless administrative BS.

An at will work policy is a two way street. It also means I have the right to drag up for any reason with no notice at all.