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Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice This

shankster..

shankster..

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 11, 2004
3,088
56
North Idaho
#1
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#3
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice This

That mag/bullets you drop to the ground might be the ones that save your life. It takes people a long time for retraining to do tactical reloads.

So many people have over time at the range shoot til the pistol is empty and then reload. When they have a partially loaded mag they have trouble with what to do with it.

Do you put it back in your mag holder? No, but it should be kept on your person. A pocket or even sticking it in the waist of your pants. I would not put it directly back in a mag holder since the other mags there are considered fully loaded.

It would be a big surprise to grab what you thought was a fresh mag and it only has 3 rounds in it and you were expecting 8 to 17 depending on the pistol.

Having a partner and using dummy rounds is a great advantage and good training. Your partner loads the mags for you. You don't know where the dummy rounds are. Malfunction occurs and then proceed to clear and get back in the fight.

Cut
 
#4
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice This

The simplest things require the greatest level of education.

I wonder how many students have had an AD in Mr. Smith's general direction. Perhaps if I were in that role I would wear one of those head to toe orange deer hunting suits.
wink.gif
 
#5
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice Thi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That mag/bullets you drop to the ground might be the ones that save your life. It takes people a long time for retraining to do tactical reloads.

So many people have over time at the range shoot til the pistol is empty and then reload. When they have a partially loaded mag they have trouble with what to do with it.

Do you put it back in your mag holder? No, but it should be kept on your person. A pocket or even sticking it in the waist of your pants. I would not put it directly back in a mag holder since the other mags there are considered fully loaded.

It would be a big surprise to grab what you thought was a fresh mag and it only has 3 rounds in it and you were expecting 8 to 17 depending on the pistol.

Having a partner and using dummy rounds is a great advantage and good training. <span style="font-weight: bold">Your partner loads the mags for you. You don't know where the dummy rounds are. Malfunction occurs and then proceed to clear and get back in the fight. </span>

Cut

</div></div>

Excellent idea. Thanks.
 
#6
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice This

I agree with Cut on this one. Getting in the habit of dropping that magazine can get you in BIG trouble. If this is a battlefield pick up, you don't have another mag. What if you're in the middle of a fight? You don't know how many mags you have. It you're on your last mag and you drop it to the ground - you'd best get on your belly and locate that ammo source. ALWAYS keep that loaded mag on your person.
 
#7
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice Thi

Awesome vid, thanks for sharing it. Dummies are an excellent tool for practicing malfunctions as well as helping with flinches. Same scenario, you have someone else load a mag for you with several dummy rounds (say 4) and a live round, to make it 5 in the mag. You don't know which order the rounds are in. You focus on the basics, front sight, trigger pull, etc. If you flinch when you get a dummy round it's a lot easier to tell than if you have a live round. This helps you see what you're doing, and most of the time when you're focusing on consistent point of aim and trigger pull, when you get to the live round, your shot will be quite good.
 
#12
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice Thi

On the point of dummies that is the method I us., I made up the dummy rounds by loading empty rounds(no powder or primer) and filling the primer pocket with silicone. Personally I dont agree with the tactical reload for most situations(especiallu a malf) but thats a whole nuther topic.



ps By making real looking and feeling dummies you can just close your eyes and load yer mags yourself.
 
#13
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice Thi

Local IDPA club will occasionally have a COF that uses a "common" gun. Shooter doesn't know what to expect when he picks it up. Live round in the chamber, next is a dummy; mag loaded with dummies and requires a reload; etc. It can be a humbling experience if you don't practice.

Another trick is one-handed reloads...with your weak hand.
 
#14
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice Thi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Local IDPA club will occasionally have a COF that uses a "common" gun. Shooter doesn't know what to expect when he picks it up. Live round in the chamber, next is a dummy; mag loaded with dummies and requires a reload; etc. It can be a humbling experience if you don't practice.

Another trick is one-handed reloads...with your weak hand. </div></div>

That is awesome practice. I've never done the weak hand-only reload either - interesting, looks like I have some scenarios to practice. Thanks for sharing.
 
#16
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice Thi

Tap rack ready drills are a must for any shooter.

We use the bright orange dummy rounds and have another officer load the mags.

1000 repititions for gross muscle memory,
5000 repititions for fine muscle memory...

(Numbers Ive been taught. Im sure there are more than one school of thought on this.)
 
#17
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice This

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good stuff. The only thing I do different is I dont hold the mag for a double feed, I let her fly and go for mag #2. </div></div>

A couple of points here. If you want to let her fly cause you think that's the best for you all well and good but the other replies about not discarding the magazine are valid and something you should think long and hard about. One other point that you might consider. Imagine you are in a situation such as this. A dark alley in some shit ass third world country or maybe your own city, you are trading shots with another armed individual who you pissed off or for some reason just wants you dead. He subscribes to your philosophy, a problem develops, maybe he just ran dry, let that mag fly then dig around for another one to reload. I, on the other end of that equation, hear that mag fly or go thunk as it hits the ground, and think to myself, he's empty for the moment and pop up and shoot that fucker right in the eye socket while he's digging around for the loaded mag in his pocket or where ever. Moral of the story, before you drop that mag or let her fly, have another loaded mag in your hand ready to pop in. Don't be holding an empty gun while you dig around for the reload. Just a thought.
 
#18
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice Thi

+1 Shaggyback, "Action Ready Drills" definitely a part of my lesson plan teaching Police Recruit classes. Ball and dummy drills are an outstanding way to diagnose shooter's issues with fundamentals.

The "common gun drill" is also an eye opener. Tap-Rack and go drills can be a life saver. Its amazing how many people carry auto pistols and don't have a clue.

Although now retired, I still certify qualifications for retired officer carry permits. Its amazing that guys that have carried a weapon the majority of their adult lives-STILL have problems with the basics. Good video.
 
#19
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice Thi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shankster, you actually made a good post, congrats!</div></div>

I agree, great video, but I had to watch it twice as the first time I kept waiting for a fat chick to attack that guy or run across the back ground somewhere...

Great vid Shank
 
#20
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice Thi

DeltaP, I hear ya but... my mag is already in before the other hits the ground or so close to it its insignificant. From my IPSC days I do this little flippy thing as I remove my left hand that sends the mag flying to the right. I believe that holding onto mags has the potential to fubar the situation. Was the mag a problem? Did I remember to not mix it with my full mags? Am I taking my eyes off the danger area to look at what Im doing? The ONLY time I would consider a tac reload is if I found myself in very secure cover with no sense of danger close. I submit that slide lock reload may even have more value to train on because if your pulling the trigger that many times, slide lock is probably where your going to find yourself. The multiple mag gunfight is the statistical oddity. The man that can count his rounds on a two way range at handgun distances is too!
 
#21
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice Thi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From my IPSC days I do this little flippy thing as I remove my left hand that sends the mag flying to the right.</div></div>

Took me a while to break that habit after moving to IDPA.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ONLY time I would consider a tac reload is if I found myself in very secure cover with no sense of danger close.</div></div>

That is the thinking behind IDPA rules.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NOTE: HQ urges course designers to draft scenario courses that do not require tac-loads or reloads with retention to be performed “on the clock”.

If a competitor shoots to slide lock with targets
still remaining to be engaged from a specific firing point, the
competitor does NOT have to duck behind cover while reloading,
if you are using cover adequately while firing it will also be
adequate cover while reloading.</div></div>

Often have to remind SOs of the second part.
 
#22
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice Thi

Best line in the video, "I beat the snot out of it until it works." At the end of the day,these are just tools and should be treated as such. Safe queens could get you killed.

p.s. Shank, he's talking about firearms
 
#24
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice Thi

Yeah, but you would be surprised how many that carry a sidearm have never practiced it. I have watched shooter experience a malfunction during a COF and literally stop and look at the gun as if deciding what to do; throw it or run.
 
#27
Re: Everyone That Carries A Pistol... Practice Thi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ranger70</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Don't M.I.T.!" that was great. Jim </div></div>

Take a class with him. I lost count of how many great one liners Clint has.
 
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