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Rifle Scopes EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

Either S & B is taking a huge loss to sell to the USMC or they are making a large profit on the rest of the market. You can't make a profit by selling volume if you are selling an item for less than it costs you to manufacture. If they are selling it for $1670, it costs less than that to make. I doubt S & B is taking a loss.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308 Newb</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(Quote)
"BTW: the marines are paying $1670 for their SB, the retail markup is HUGE."


WoW!! </div></div>

I bet if you call them and order 500ish of them you too would get a favorable discount.

Julian </div></div>
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

My .2 cents!!

I had always used Luppies when that was the standard before all the high dollar quality scopes came out.

Got back into shooting matches again 2 years ago and realized like every other piece of gear it was time to upgrade to level the field!!

Well i went mid of the pack and bought the IOR!! I was impressed and i really liked the scope alot. Customer service was great and no issues with the scope except as some of us had talked how the objective lens cap broke loose and the ruber seal fell out. It was replaced and never no issues.

To me if you want to upgrade and cant afford to get the USO or the S&B then i think a good middle of the shelf scope is the IOR or the NF scopes out there.

If your serious about what you do and can afford to goto the top shelf then choose between the USO and the S&B.

I have shot them botha nd i really am happy with USO and there service and i know my next one is coming from USO again.

 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

There is a difference between production "costs" and "value", people who price based on production costs are shooting themselves in the foot. USO and S&B are priced higher because they have positioned themselves away from every other manufacturer and found a customer nitch that demands the product specifications they provide us.
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

I think the whole 'value' vs cost of scopes n rifles is often over-sold.

When push comes to shove n the Tacital Precision Marksman gets in position I want to see a seasoned veteran with a well traveled rifle n scope that man has used for years, (if he lightly stroked it while settin up that wouldnt bother me none)

Havin the latest n greatest is nice but also means its the system ya have the least time on.

If yur life depended on it... 90% of the S&Bs/USOs/whatever high dollah nail beater, dropped from helichoppers n good to go... will be bought by guys who's life will NEVER depend on it but pride in ownership, I got whot them Mar-eenes/SFers/DEA/FBI/ABC's got!

'Better' glass...I dunno, the Nightforce does read F-Class targets through tuff mirage better than my loopy VX-III whatever 6.5-20, but my Ziess sees a coyote sneakin through dead johnson grass before legal huntin time in the fall, range 520 yards (couldnt see the coyote with the Lieca rangefinder but could tag a nearby tree)

I kinda like the idea of 'workin-up' the scope line. Seems to me itsa simple way to have hard evidence on what works for you n what ya REALLY use. If ya lose any money buyin n sellin its coz ya wanna move quickly, n losin a few bucks two, three times on yur scope journey... stop n think what ya learned n ya can say, "I had a _________ n while I liked......." something oft times lackin in internet chats. Too many guys burn bandwidth sayin stuff like, "I hear tell, while I dunt own one, never havin used one I'd say..."

Now what suits ya can be anythin from the 3000 dollah what the Mar-eenes use to some 100 dollah Roosian tractor factory 'mil-spec' knock-off... but a truthful look at what ya ACTUALLY do might swing the choice closer to some 600 to 1500 dollah scope n there are many excellent choices out there.

Personally I see things like 'click' value, objective size, easy eyerelief, simple reticle, good 'huntin light' vision as the standard. I have always had the good fortune to test scopes 'in use' rather than rely on the scope's maker sellin me on it. Only onetime, out past 600 at Raton, did the Loopy choices fail me.

My F-class rifle could use a Nightforce.

 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DWood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Either S & B is taking a huge loss to sell to the USMC or they are making a large profit on the rest of the market. You can't make a profit by selling volume if you are selling an item for less than it costs you to manufacture. If they are selling it for $1670, it costs less than that to make. I doubt S & B is taking a loss.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308 Newb</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(Quote)
"BTW: the marines are paying $1670 for their SB, the retail markup is HUGE."


WoW!! </div></div>

I bet if you call them and order 500ish of them you too would get a favorable discount.

Julian </div></div> </div></div>

I think you guys are forgetting about the double digit import duty that civilians pay on imported rifle scopes and their components. I’m sure the government doesn’t tax itself....
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Loongshot: I've long argued that having the Precision Weapon Shop at Quantico produce the M40 series is not cost effective. I'm sure that when you factor in the cost of supporting the personnel and capital investment involved in building those, the Corps would have been much better off to have purchased Accuracy Internationals.

However, as we used to say, there are three ways to do something: the right way, the wrong way, and the Marine way.</div></div>

Agreed. Their whole system is a bit on the crazy side, now they are going overboard with those $19K TBA rifles when all they have to do is copy any EU AI package.
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSP446</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I under stand the excellent glass and FFP but IOR has that for around 800 to 1200 dollars but I don't know about the ruggedness. </div></div>

Ruggedness you ask, here's my definition of ruggedness.
Last week I had two of my shooting buddies over at my shop sighting in rifles. After they were done we got into a heated debate about scopes and they were calling me an idiot for sending so much money on scopes. They were asking me most of the same questions you are asking about ruggedness. So I decided to show them. I took my .308 PAI rifle with a AI stock, Badger hardware and USO SN-3 scope to the bench and shot a five shot group with my factory 175 match ammo at 100yrds I then measured the group. It measured .389in. I then grabbed my rifle turned it upside down and from chest height about 5ft dropped it letting it crash to the ground. It landed on the top of the elevation Erec knob. I did put a shop rug on the ground to prevent scaching the shit out of it but holly shit did it hit hard!. After my bodies recovered from the disbelief of what just had happened they continued to can me a idiot. And yes at that very moment I was considering agreeing with them. I then picked the rifle up and checked for any noteable damage. There was none. So I loaded it back up with five more 175's and shot the same target at the same point of impact. I went down range and pulled the target and got the new measurement it was .476in the scope never lost its zero. And just to make sure I also did two different tracking test to see if it would pass. First I did it in 2 minutes and then one both zeroing out perfectly. So in my personal option the USO's are worth every flipen penny. Since then one of my buddies has ordered one and the other is still trying to convince his wife that he needs a $2,800 scope. Take this for what its worth but USO scopes are hands down the worlds toughest scopes. I dare you to do this test with something else. Nick at USO can verifie this is not some BS story. I strongly believe that there is no reason to spend 3,000-4,000 on a rifle and put a mediocre scope on it, I would rather spend less on the rifle and put more into the scope.What good is a 3,000-4,000 rifle without sights? Please, don't forget this is just my personal opinion.


Pete
A hard-on for USO’S
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

NO offense, But I can't take someone serious when they would drop a scope and rifle upside down ,on purpose from 5 ft up... Especially when it costs that much money.That is kind of like over revving a ferrari engine and holding it there just to see if it can take it.
confused.gif

I would leave that to people that NEED to test them for ruggedness.

Why would YOU do that?
Upside down from 5 ft?
I'm not going to prove to myself my purchase was worth it by potentially bending the tube from 5ft up.
My rifle weighs 14.5lbs with scope.If you want to send that USO to me to give it a proper drop test,I will!
I'll get it back to you as soon as I'm done with all my testing(the day I die maybe)
grin.gif


Maybe you need it for use in combat or training or something, I don't know.
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

GHOSTRECON:

I'm almost certain the recoil impulse from just firing your weapon strains the scope a lot more than you can by dropping it from 5 feet.

Sorry, first post.
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

I wouldn't get too carried away call'n BS on Pete. He isn't one to back down from a challenge. Personally I wouldn't do it to my scope.........nor was I standing there when it hapened but he did call me when he did it to tell me about it. Knowing Pete I'm sure he did it. It was more or less done to prove to the customer that they were worth the money.

The only thing I have a problem with is finding out how Pete measured 5 feet from his chest. I think 4 feet might be more accurate.
laugh.gif
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

FWIW, My flattop AR15, wearing a 4.5x14 Leupold tactial, fell 4' off a table onto a concrete floor. Landing on the target knobs, gouging the shit out of them. I took it to the range the next day, it was still perfectly zeroed, and tracked great. In my book thats pretty damn good for those scumy, bottom feeder Leupolds...
wink.gif
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

Oohhh!! It was a sales pitch! HeHe
grin.gif
.Now that makes alot more sense to me
smile.gif
.I'm realy not trying to say he is BSing.I just could not find the logic in it at all.
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

I'm with ya 7mmRM. I'm going to stick with those POS Leupys. You can get two of em for the price of a USO or S&B and if they break Leupold will send me a new one. So what have I got to loose?
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

You aint gonna loose a thing
wink.gif


I guess you can call me old fashined, but a "heavy bbled huntin rifle" i.e. Rem700/bbl of you choice, nestled in a McMillan A2/3/4/5, with Leupold scope and Badger like hardware on top, does alot more for me than the latest and greatest AI/S&B combo from our Euro friends.

Also I like the idea that the Marine M40s are made by US MARINES and are not off the shelf Euro AIs!

YMMV...
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

I agree with you about the McMillans. I personally don't like the AI's. I'm sure thay are excellent stocks and I don't have any personal experience with them but I just can't make myself like the way the look. They remind me too much of a Choate Ultimate something or the other.
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

Alright guys, I just took a measurement from my chest to the ground I came up with about 4ft instead of 5. Sorry for the false info.
The point and logic that I was trying to get across is that
the USO scopes are tuff as nails and no matter what you do to them they keep giving great results. I do agree with some of you that my test was a little crude but if the scope had failed I know that USO would fix it without question. Also I’m not saying that all other scopes are junk except for the USO I’m just simply saying I don’t think certain others mite not of took this kind of punishment. (THIS IS MY OPION) This rifles set up is was not build for cutting paper it was built as a working gun. Know that I have done this test I have that sense of security that these scopes will not fail me when I rely on them the most . I will most likely never do this test again. That day I was called out to the mat and I had to put my money were my mouth was.

Pete
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

Well I like my scope ,But guarantee it would not hold up to that kind of abuse
wink.gif
.I can appreciate TOP grade anything,But can't always afford it,or justify purchasing it if I could.
Now,what would it do if the impact was directly on the Bell?
BTW,I still think your CRAZY!!
grin.gif
.
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

For what it's worth I'll add this. I've never been quoted as being the best salesman before so here goes. There is no such thing as a 100% product 100% of the time. It simply does not exist. Myself included. Anyone who says otherwise should be questioned. Why? There are way too many variables. You can not control all of the variables all the time. You don't always get a perfect barrel, stock, scope, trigger or whatever else maybe involved. The difference is usually made in how a Vendor handles the problem and how many times the problem comes up.

I've seen just about every scope available on the market that's commonly used in our business. I have seen a broken scope from every one of these vendors. With that being said I've only seen 1 broken USO and 2 broken S&B's in 9 years. Compared to the dozens of scopes I've seen broken from other vendors this year alone .....for me the answer is clear. (My definition of broken is a scope that will not hold a zero. Not a broken knob or other piece of what ever that could be broken by anyone at any time.)
A product can be made to be 100% however it may not work out the first time every time. Just stick another barrel, scope, trigger or whatever it maybe on it and let the thing eat. Anyone who has been around this business long enough should know if they admit it or not that this is the way it goes down sometimes.

Go with what your gut feeling tells you and your check book allows. Try not to get upset at the fact that it's simply not a perfect world everyday.

I’m sure I didn’t just help myself sell anything but I feel like it needed to be said.
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuckyTheBrewer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I like my scope ,But guarantee it would not hold up to that kind of abuse
wink.gif
.I can appreciate TOP grade anything,But can't always afford it,or justify purchasing it if I could.
Now,what would it do if the impact was directly on the Bell?
BTW,I still think your CRAZY!!
grin.gif
. </div></div>


1+ on the CRAZY haha. It was nice talking and seing others opions as were all alittle diferent. I think Jared realy hit home with his last post. Be safe and happy shooting.

NO I'm not droping it on its bell HA HA.

LOL,
Pete
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

I'm not an operator, so take this for what it's worth.

After the Leopold/Premier thing, I personally don't see why anyone would want to go out and buy one of their scopes. To have one, from the past, is one thing, but to get another, confuses me.

Integrity and respect. That one thing is what I strive to live with / by.

Can somebody chime in here, and show me where I am wrong? The way I see it, Premier fixed a fault with the Leupy. The retical, and stuff. That tells me, that it wasn't perfect to begin with. Then, fast forward to today, and the "problems" still haven't been totally addressed, as well as others, both customers and the Premier company, are screwed.

So then people want more of this? And want to support the "bad-guys"? IMHO, they should be left in the weeds to rot, because the use of this equipment, in proffessional circles, is "against evil (one form or another)". I myself just can't fathom supporting that.

Now, as I understand this, just to drop a few names, GAP, USO, S&B, Patriot Arms, and many others, both on here, and off, are companies with Respect and Integrity. Quality, Service, and even Timelyness (I invented that word) are part and parcel too. They are all in there.

Point I am trying to make here, is this is mostly a "lawful and orderly" group of people (site members) with the added bonus of "protectors of freedoms". People who, by and large, DO THE RIGHT THING. So why support those who don't? Blatantly don't.

And as for market, the Leupy still has the birdwatching market to cater to, and coddle up with, so you don't have to worry about bankrupting them.

Sorry for the blathering. Recent surgery, meds are mangling me, and I am grumpy.

God Bless You All,

Sean
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

Sean:

Just another perspective on this. Premier has gone from putting reticles in Leupolds to putting reticles in S&B. And they seem to be doing fine.

Leupold still doesn't have a FFP reticle out except in two scopes - and they can't sell the Gen II reticle, which is markedly superior to the straight mildot reticle, because Premier owns the patent on it.

In addition, they lost out on sales of all of the scopes Premier was buying from them and putting FFP reticles in.

I'm not in the market for any new Leupold scopes because Leupold has nothing I want to buy.

U.S.O. and S&B do.

It looks to me like Leupold screwed themselves.


 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

Good God, now Leupolds are the evil/villanous bad guys, because of the fallout between Premier? You really need to get a grip- tis not a perfect world, businesses have fall outs- some you hear about some you dont. Its a fact of life. Also there are always two sides to every story, and until I hear the stories from both sides, not abunch of drivel on the 'net, I wont make assumptions. Fact of the matter is Leupold pours tons of cash/help into shooting sports, gun rights, etc. Im sure there are people that feel they have been wronged by the ones you "named dropped".
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

Here is a thought , Buy a Super Sniper used or off the Sample List and put it on your rifle . Cut back on the 6 pack of beer a week or going out to lunch at the "Choke and Puke" 3 days a week , hell maybe now is the time to stop smoking as well at 4 dollars a pack . Now take the 50-60 bucks a week you have cut out of your budget and put it in the savigns account every week . When your wife asks you what you want for your birthday tell her you would like some money to put in your savings account and a nice dinner . Sell all that crap around your house that you never use on Craiglist or Fleabay and before you know it you have 1500-2000 grand sitting in savings . Now is the time to start watching the For Sale section on all the gunboards until what you want shows up and BAM ! there it is . Now sell your Super Sniper for probably what you paid for it and put that into savings for the next big want .

The risk of spending to little far outweighs the risk of spending to much . If you spend a lot less money and get a product that doesnt work then you have saved nothing and lost eveerything . If you spend to much and the product works as expected and lasts a long time then all you have lost is a few dollars .
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

Michael: the nice thing about good scopes is that they don't decrease much in value with use. I recently sold a U.S.O. I had used for 3 years for about 90 percent of what I paid for it.

That's not much of a price for 3 years use of an excellent scope.


 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael N</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a thought , Buy a Super Sniper used or off the Sample List and put it on your rifle . Cut back on the 6 pack of beer a week or going out to lunch at the "Choke and Puke" 3 days a week , hell maybe now is the time to stop smoking as well at 4 dollars a pack . Now take the 50-60 bucks a week you have cut out of your budget and put it in the savigns account every week . When your wife asks you what you want for your birthday tell her you would like some money to put in your savings account and a nice dinner . Sell all that crap around your house that you never use on Craiglist or Fleabay and before you know it you have 1500-2000 grand sitting in savings . Now is the time to start watching the For Sale section on all the gunboards until what you want shows up and BAM ! there it is . Now sell your Super Sniper for probably what you paid for it and put that into savings for the next big want .

The risk of spending to little far outweighs the risk of spending to much . If you spend a lot less money and get a product that doesnt work then you have saved nothing and lost eveerything . If you spend to much and the product works as expected and lasts a long time then all you have lost is a few dollars . </div></div>


Dude, you hit that one out of the park!!!! Me and you are some what alike. I about fell out of my chair. YOU DA MAN!!
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good God, now Leupolds are the evil/villanous bad guys, because of the fallout between Premier? You really need to get a grip- tis not a perfect world, businesses have fall outs- some you hear about some you dont. Its a fact of life. Also there are always two sides to every story, and until I hear the stories from both sides, not abunch of drivel on the 'net, I wont make assumptions. Fact of the matter is Leupold pours tons of cash/help into shooting sports, gun rights, etc. Im sure there are people that feel they have been wronged by the ones you "named dropped". </div></div>

7MM I will stand by that, Leupold has done alot for this industry
regaurdless of what has happen. If every one was perfict it would be a boring world.

Pete
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

"I'm not in the market for any new Leupold scopes because Leupold has nothing I want to buy"

I bet that pretty much sums it up for most that own a USO/S&B scope.

I seem to wear out the adjustment parts because i twist the knobs often. Shoot 4000+ rounds a year and most scopes have lasted a year before i have issues. Twice i have lost adjustment in scopes while at a competition. Mayvbe im just unlucky...

You have nothing to loose if you shoot at your home range for fun. Scope doesnt work your out a few bullets. big deal. If i travel to Alaska and go hunting and my scope doesnt work what have i to loose?

I simply dont want issues and am willing to pay to reduce the risk.

I didnt get a top shelf scope overnight either. Its something that some have to work up to and save for.
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

I was reading this forum and decieded to skip ahead. Heard it too many times.
"you get what you pay for" is about the biggest bullshit I have ever heard of in my life.
Take p ickups for example. (and I am sure I will get the same crap on this subject as well). Ford Chevy Dodge Toyota whatever.
Who gives a *$&#. What does it take to actually do the job. I can do it with most. Each has there own plus points. I do have better equpment than most of the LEO snipers in KS. Am I going to use it, NO. Will there department shit cut it. YES! As long as the shooter does his part. Guess what, I run Leupolds. Why, I can build 2 guns for what some of the guys on here build one. Each to ther own, I do not pull back from that. I like nice equipment as well. Guess what I am saying is, in the line of duty, do most need a S&B, US OPTIC? The legands didn't, do we?

Show me the money. How many Military snipers use what? How many precision shooters use what, How many Internet snipers use what?

Also, while I am bitching, show me a machine that actually tests clearity of an optic. I would pay for results.

Maybe I ought to shut up and just buy a S&B or US optic and try it.

 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GUNNER75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was reading this forum and decieded to skip ahead. Heard it too many times.
"you get what you pay for" is about the biggest bullshit I have ever heard of in my life.
Take p ickups for example. (and I am sure I will get the same crap on this subject as well). Ford Chevy Dodge Toyota whatever.
Who gives a *$&#. What does it take to actually do the job. I can do it with most. Each has there own plus points. I do have better equpment than most of the LEO snipers in KS. Am I going to use it, NO. Will there department shit cut it. YES! As long as the shooter does his part. Guess what, I run Leupolds. Why, I can build 2 guns for what some of the guys on here build one. Each to ther own, I do not pull back from that. I like nice equipment as well. Guess what I am saying is, in the line of duty, do most need a S&B, US OPTIC? The legands didn't, do we?

Show me the money. How many Military snipers use what? How many precision shooters use what, How many Internet snipers use what?

Also, while I am bitching, show me a machine that actually tests clearity of an optic. I would pay for results.

Maybe I ought to shut up and just buy a S&B or US optic and try it.

</div></div>

By your reasoning why build 2 guns with luppies on top when you can build 8 with tascos? Thousands of real world operators use SB scopes, USO a lot less but they are a much smaller company. I wasted over 2 g's on inferior Leupolds I am not rich enough to keep doing that.
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

"Also, while I am bitching, show me a machine that actually tests clarity of an optic. I would pay for results"

I can care less about the glass. I have said that many times before. I can see my targets fine with most scopes. Clarity is overrated.

I want a scope gives me the following:

I want it to track like its supposed to
1/10th mill clicks
single rotation elevation knob
Zero stops for windage
First focal plane
reticle "choices" other than the standard mill dot.
good customer service

All scopes have some of the above. There aren't many that have all of it. I bet you can think of 2 MFG's that meet my criteria above

This goes for any manufacturer...
Supply what your customer wants. Not what some engineer thinks they might want...Price it where it needs to be and dont be greedy. That = sales....

I hate the "you can have any color you want as long as it is black attitude"




 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJoplin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will all have opinions and therefore we have options. </div></div>


1+ on this quote
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

+1 Gunner75

BTW, 'shot heres a reality check- Thousands of "real world operators" use those inferior Leupolds....
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

Ah yes the age old debate that will never be settled has arrived on the Hide once again. Like I said guys, we all have our opinions and as a consumer you have to go with what your gut and your check book tell you to do. The rest is history.

Hell my dad never even let me shoot a scope until I was 14. Made me shoot that high end Stevens 53D single shot 22LR with crooked irons and a sure enough 50 pound trigger. Until I was proficient with that I didn't get to handle much more in the rifle line up.

Now days we just piss and moan behind our computer because it normally doesn't talk back and we can vent our thoughts and emotions on whatever idiot dares cross our path. Here is a novel idea. Get your ass off the computer for a while and go burn some powder.
smile.gif
Yeah Yeah I'm just as guilty as you guys so no pointing fingers.

I'll even supply you guys with a target to print off.

http://patriotarmsinc.com/dialres/freetargets.htm


smiley-target.jpg
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

Internet sniper reporting for duty!
grin.gif
.I just love long range + precision shooting,, and have watched alot of movies,,,And not ashamed of it.
I love books,movies,as well as true stories told of sniping + long range shots.I have found the 600 yard line more fun than any shooting I have done.
I expect 800-1000yrds even better hit or miss.
However when I spend money,I like not to waste it.That goes for something expensive and worth it,as well as something less expensive and more than good enough for what I do.
A hobby
smile.gif
.
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting is actually not that expensive a hobby. If you don't believe me, go price a bass boat.

</div></div>

This is a point I have tried to make over & over. I am not a sniper, just an occasional hunter & target shooter. But I love to hear "How can you spend that kind of money on a scope!" But the same person owns a ski boat that they use three times a year. It all gets down to what you like to do. I just dropped $2K on a Zeiss scope. I was feeling a little guilty about it, until I really took stock of the things that my wife & I purchase. Most of which will never be around 10 years from now. The point is, that most people feel guilty about spending money on the shooting sports. That is to say that they will make their decisions on what to purchase based on what everyone elses beleives is resonable & practical. For me the bottom line is, If you can afford it than get what you want. You won't regret it. BTW just total up the cost of all the crap you buy that you don't need at COSTCO, Sams Club etc. and there is the price of your new scope, and then some!
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

I know what you are saying. Last May I decided that I needed a new bass boat because the one I had wasn't a Ranger so I bought a new $38,000 Ranger bass boat. I didn't really need it and although I fish quite a bit I don't catch all that many fish but Damn I sure do look good going down the lake! If I had an extra 3 grand I would buy a S&B but I don't so I'll just stick with the Leupys and IOR's.
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'Mental note to self"

Look REAL close at weapons and scopes on the for sale forum by Ghostrecon </div></div>

What does this supposed to mean, I have nothing for sale on the hide?????????
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

The other day GhostRecon and I were enjoying lunch at Hooters when I clocked him upside the head with my 20X Super Sniper scope without warning. After GC came to, I showed him how even for the blood, the scope retained it's zero and suffered no ill effects even though his skull is harder than class 5 armor. All he had to say was "My cat's name is mittens."

WYK
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

WYK,Who the hell asked you? You don't know me. So why don't you go back into your closet and play Cyber Sniper somewhere else!!
Thanks for the cheap shot dude, The stuff I post here is the truth not BS. I thought that by posting my USO drop test you guys would find it to be helpful in future purchases. I have never said any thing bad about any scopes I have talked about on this thread. And yes I personally prefer USO's,S&B's and Night Force but these scopes are what I have found to work the best for me in my line of work. And believe it or not I have scopes from Tasco,Simmons and Leupold and so on... And I like them very much. I have only posted my honest opinions on the testing I have done my personal self. I do not post info based on my buddies hear say.
If you cannot justify paying $3000.00 for a scope that’s fine I respect that its your money and your personal choice, and that’s what this hole thread is about, Opinions (Not cut downs.)
If you want to call me to the mat that’s fine I can take it I’m A I big boy. But this immature story telling cheap shots are a bunch of BS.


Pete
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Optical clarity can be tested using a Snellen Eye Chart. </div></div>or this USAF CHART or have a chat with any optics factory (Cine Lens repairers/builders). They align a GOOD camera behind the ocular - take a photo and enhance said photo 50 times (easy if digital) - and start counting. You get a value called linear resolution - VISIBLE and CLINICALLY OBJECTIVE (pun not intended). And I've seen glass that would make S&B and USO hide in a corner! - But would you spend USD20,000 on a scope?

But none of this helps if your eye has a lopsided view of the world. Blueish light HURTS my eyes. On simple scopes I actually prefer old fashioned Russian brownish image tints. On a 4 power who cares!

But you can tell the difference and it can make a difference twixt poor and good glass. Are you shooting a rabbit at 100yrds - well I doubt you need TOP glass. Are you shooting the tail off a gnat at 1000yrds - well at least with good glass you'll see when you miss.
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

"This goes for any manufacturer...
Supply what your customer wants. Not what some engineer thinks they might want...Price it where it needs to be and dont be greedy. That = sales...."

AMEN!!!!!!!!!! i agree with this all the way and not just with scopes but with everything in life. Stop telling us what we like and listen to what we actually want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well i am in the market for a new scope for my rig. I would love an SnB or a USO and will no doubt own one or both one day but at the mo i just put it in perspective. My rig is a Tikka, it goes hunting alot and punches paper for fun. Does it need a kick ass bells and whistles scope, Not in my opinion NO! Would it like one, hell yes! SO i am looking at Leupy and IOR not that they are bottom end they rock and even they are probably too good for the rig.

At the end of the day, the way i see it, your scope must suit your purpose AND it must suit you! Forget all the options and this that and the other.

Think about what you want!
Think about what you need!
Think about what works for you!

Then ask about the quality of manufacture, the repeatability, faults, after sales service. If you are satisfied with all that, go for it. Try not to ask about glass quality and clarity, that is all in the eye of the beholder so you must get one and look through it yourself if at all possible. If not, then you must ask but dont be suprised if it comes out iff to what you see. At the upper levels, you know the glass etc will rock.
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GHOSTRECON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you use this chart I have never hear of doing this.</div></div>pete - You might want to give these lads a ring
APPLIED IMAGE

They have a modified version of the 1951 USAF as well as LINEAR RESOLUTION graphs and load of other stuff.

I always go to see a friend who works for a Panavision repair/rental shop - he has it all set up (he does some scope repair work for his mates on the side), so all we have to do is drop the scope into rings and "click". Lining it all up is the major PITA.

AT HOME I printed the chart out as big as I could - It depends on how FINE you can print and the papper quality. Set it out at a KNOWN distance and you get a "GHOSTRECON" standard for your photos. I get a "CHRISMADRID" Standard - ideal of course is buy a GENUINE calibration graph and do it properly. But I'm not spending that much just to test my own scopes!
 
Re: EXPENSIVE SCOPES!!!!!

Many ways to say it but for me:
1) Does someones life depend on my next shot?- If yes, buy the best the market has to offer.
2) Am I competing at upper levels comps?- Buy the best I can afford.
3) Am I doing this for shits and grins? Buy what makes ME grin.
4) Am I occasionally shooting deer? Just buy something with good light gathering.

I have owned most available up to and including USO & they all have their applications based on above mentioned criteria.
Bill
 
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