Kind of difficult at times not get a little paranoid about all the transaction "records" freely floating in the hands of various government agencies and bureaus. I'm becoming less enamored with the idea of Uncle Sam having knowledge about my life and business dealings especially gun purchases and have gone to buying guns with a face to face transactions where records are not kept - at least when that is possible. Anyone else go out of their way to avoid the more formal FFL process?
Face to face transfer
- Thread starter prairiefire
- Start date
Re: Face to face transfer
If there is a "list", im sure we are on it......
I get a little uneasy when I fill out the back ground paper work once a month or so for a new firearm. It's like they want you to feel like you are doing something "dirty", and "wrong".
Yes, Im all for the face to face deals.
If there is a "list", im sure we are on it......
I get a little uneasy when I fill out the back ground paper work once a month or so for a new firearm. It's like they want you to feel like you are doing something "dirty", and "wrong".
Yes, Im all for the face to face deals.
Re: Face to face transfer
you are all going to burn in hell anyways.....just wipe your prints off it and wrap it in teflon tape, just like they do in the godfather movies
you are all going to burn in hell anyways.....just wipe your prints off it and wrap it in teflon tape, just like they do in the godfather movies
Re: Face to face transfer
I only do FTF transfers these days, when I'm doing any at all. Not so much about Uncle Sugar as I like to look folks in the eye when I'm doing something meaningful.
I only do FTF transfers these days, when I'm doing any at all. Not so much about Uncle Sugar as I like to look folks in the eye when I'm doing something meaningful.
Re: Face to face transfer
Once a proceed is given to the FFL, all your personal data called in to the National Tracing Center for a search is purged. So if you bought 1 firearm a day for a year, no way they know this as your personal data is purged once the proceed is given to the FFL, usually within a few minutes. All they know is everyday one search was done everyday of the year with the FFL. The only information that is recorded is the NTN matched to FFL. As an FFL holder, if I call and ask who transferred what gun through my FFL, the only information they have is the NTN numbers and the date the NTN was given, there is no personal data on file at NTC. I can ask, how many NTN were given to my FFL on 8.14.2010 and they will say, 3 NTN were given on 8.14.2010, that is all the information they have.
But, as an FFL holder, I must keep all 4473 proceeds for 20 years, all non transferred for 5 years. Serial numbers from all manufacturers / importers are on record from time the firearm is complete / entered in country. NTC knows where every serial number is until the firearm is transferred to the individual.
So, if NTC wants to know who owns a Remington Gxxxxxx serial number, they can find out which FFL transferred it to a citizen, they call the FFL and its goes something like this, Remington serial number Gxxxxxx was shipped to you on Aug 1 2010 from Remington, do you have the firearm in your A&D book? If not, the trouble starts. Have you transferred the firearm. NTC will ask who the FFL transferred the firearm too. Now, where the FFL has to give this information to the government is a gray area. Do you comply or ask for a search warrant?
Multiple handguns are different. If you buy more than 2 in a 5 day day period, the FFL must or suppose to send the MHF with all your personal data just like a 4473 to NTC. But, many FFL do not forward this form to the NTC.
And as a courtesy to NTC, if someone buys 5 ARs in one day at your FFL, NTC would like to know too but it is not a law.
Clear as a Kentucky creek!
Once a proceed is given to the FFL, all your personal data called in to the National Tracing Center for a search is purged. So if you bought 1 firearm a day for a year, no way they know this as your personal data is purged once the proceed is given to the FFL, usually within a few minutes. All they know is everyday one search was done everyday of the year with the FFL. The only information that is recorded is the NTN matched to FFL. As an FFL holder, if I call and ask who transferred what gun through my FFL, the only information they have is the NTN numbers and the date the NTN was given, there is no personal data on file at NTC. I can ask, how many NTN were given to my FFL on 8.14.2010 and they will say, 3 NTN were given on 8.14.2010, that is all the information they have.
But, as an FFL holder, I must keep all 4473 proceeds for 20 years, all non transferred for 5 years. Serial numbers from all manufacturers / importers are on record from time the firearm is complete / entered in country. NTC knows where every serial number is until the firearm is transferred to the individual.
So, if NTC wants to know who owns a Remington Gxxxxxx serial number, they can find out which FFL transferred it to a citizen, they call the FFL and its goes something like this, Remington serial number Gxxxxxx was shipped to you on Aug 1 2010 from Remington, do you have the firearm in your A&D book? If not, the trouble starts. Have you transferred the firearm. NTC will ask who the FFL transferred the firearm too. Now, where the FFL has to give this information to the government is a gray area. Do you comply or ask for a search warrant?
Multiple handguns are different. If you buy more than 2 in a 5 day day period, the FFL must or suppose to send the MHF with all your personal data just like a 4473 to NTC. But, many FFL do not forward this form to the NTC.
And as a courtesy to NTC, if someone buys 5 ARs in one day at your FFL, NTC would like to know too but it is not a law.
Clear as a Kentucky creek!
Re: Face to face transfer
For face to face, I record firearm and ser#, my name and the other name with the date, I sign it, they sign it and we both keep a copy. This way, if ATF shows up at my door saying my 1911 was used in a crime, I can say, look Mr ATF agent, 2 years ago I sold it to and show the ATF the paper, go find him.
For face to face, I record firearm and ser#, my name and the other name with the date, I sign it, they sign it and we both keep a copy. This way, if ATF shows up at my door saying my 1911 was used in a crime, I can say, look Mr ATF agent, 2 years ago I sold it to and show the ATF the paper, go find him.
Re: Face to face transfer
Some states allow FTF transfers sans paper between private parties....like TN from what I have read on ILA website etc
Some states allow FTF transfers sans paper between private parties....like TN from what I have read on ILA website etc
