First AR Question

[rafiki76]

Hello, I am finally building my first AR and I've been offered either a Colt LE6920 or Colt 6720-A3 Upper to go on my lower with a RRA 2 Stage NM trigger. I've heard that the pencil barrel of the 6720 is prone to heat fatigue but I am skeptical of the validity of AR15.com overall. It's about a $50 difference between them so price is irrelevant and both are new and unfired (The 6720 has been in storage.) I'm looking for recommendations because I likely will only have one for a long time. I am looking for a range toy primarily, I know neither of these is a precision rifle but I would like to stretch it out to maybe 300 yards.
Thank you.

 

[bgolf92]

First off, congrats on your first AR and welcome to the club. Second, don't try and dig too far down the shit hole we call the internet. When it comes to AR's just buy quality parts(which it seems like you're doing) and shoot the hell out of it. Thin barrels, thick barrels, medium contour barrels are all personal preference. Buy a quality one and it will treat you great. A civilian will never get a barrel hot enough to blow it up or see a material degradation in accuracy by just burning a few mags through it. 300 yards is in the wheel house for any well made AR and even some shitty ones to be honest. So like I said buy quality parts and shoot the hell out of it, it will still be around to give to your grand kids when the time comes.

 

[rafiki76]

First off, congrats on your first AR and welcome to the club. Second, don't try and dig too far down the shit hole we call the internet. When it comes to AR's just buy quality parts(which it seems like you're doing) and shoot the hell out of it. Thin barrels, thick barrels, medium contour barrels are all personal preference. Buy a quality one and it will treat you great. A civilian will never get a barrel hot enough to blow it up or see a material degradation in accuracy by just burning a few mags through it. 300 yards is in the wheel house for any well made AR and even some shitty ones to be honest. So like I said buy quality parts and shoot the hell out of it, it will still be around to give to your grand kids when the time comes.

Thank you, I'm glad to hear the barrel profile isn't extremely relevant for civilian use because I prefer the look of the 6720 a little more. Hopefully AR's won't be banned by the time I have grandkids lol.

 

[Gasgun]

Either will do out to 300 yards.
Barrel heat in the 6720 is absolutely a non issue. Actually, it’s ridiculous.
The reduced weight up front on the 6720 makes for a great handling rifle.
The 6720 has 1:9 rifling. The 6920 has 1:7. This only matters if you’re shooting 75 grain or heavier bullets.
Either one is a great choice.

As an aside, I would be prepared to replace that RR trigger. Every one that I have had experience with has failed at a very low round count.

 

[rafiki76]

Either will do out to 300 yards.
Barrel heat in the 6720 is absolutely a non issue. Actually, it’s ridiculous.
The reduced weight up front on the 6720 makes for a great handling rifle.
The 6720 has 1:9 rifling. The 6920 has 1:7. This only matters if you’re shooting 75 grain or heavier bullets.
Either one is a great choice.

As an aside, I would be prepared to replace that RR trigger. Every one that I have had experience with has failed at a very low round count.

Glad to hear heat is a non-issue, and I would like the better handling rifle. I am not sure what ammo I would run through it but I can see myself pushing 62gr max. Which trigger would you recommend, and should I replace it before or after failure? (that feels like dumb question to ask...)

 

[bgolf92]

Do you have the $ to replace something that isn't broken? If it does break, buy a Geissele. I feel like the worst thing a new shooter can do is get wrapped up in second guessing the products that they buy. That's the problem with the internet as you will find more bad reviews on products than good just because people are more inclined to bring up their gun not working vs when it's running like a top. Your RRA trigger will probably be fine but there is also a reason why US special ops uses Geissele and not RRA. Once again you're a civie and not jumping out of helicopters so shoot it, break it, replace it and continue on.

 

[rafiki76]

Do you have the $ to replace something that isn't broken? If it does break, buy a Geissele. I feel like the worst thing a new shooter can do is get wrapped up in second guessing the products that they buy. That's the problem with the internet as you will find more bad reviews on products than good just because people are more inclined to bring up their gun not working vs when it's running like a top. Your RRA trigger will probably be fine but there is also a reason why US special ops uses Geissele and not RRA. Once again you're a civie and not jumping out of helicopters so shoot it, break it, replace it and continue on.

Makes sense now. I'm thinking as a mechanic more - I always do preemptive maintenance. But in this case I'll run the RRA and if it breaks I'll look into a Geissele. But good point, the hardest thing my guns go through is putting the case into my car.

 

[Gasgun]

Do you have the $ to replace something that isn't broken? If it does break, buy a Geissele. I feel like the worst thing a new shooter can do is get wrapped up in second guessing the products that they buy. That's the problem with the internet as you will find more bad reviews on products than good just because people are more inclined to bring up their gun not working vs when it's running like a top. Your RRA trigger will probably be fine but there is also a reason why US special ops uses Geissele and not RRA. Once again you're a civie and not jumping out of helicopters so shoot it, break it, replace it and continue on.

Precisely why I specifically stated RR triggers that I had experience with. Not read about. 4 total. Not a huge number, but 0 for 4. Latest one failed at about the 350 round mark. Others have gone longer. Pretty much squares with everything I have read about them, though.

It’s also why I said to be prepared to replace it, rather than replace it immediately.

I second your recommendation of the Geissele. They are all I use.

 

[bgolf92]

Precisely why I specifically stated RR triggers that I had experience with. Not read about. 4 total. Not a huge number, but 0 for 4. Latest one failed at about the 350 round mark. Others have gone longer. Pretty much squares with everything I have read about them, though.

It’s also why I said to be prepared to replace it, rather than replace it immediately.

I second your recommendation of the Geissele. They are all I use.

Exactly dude. I’m just more trying to elaborate just cause one dude said his shit broke, FTF or turned into a paper weight doesn’t mean it’s a POS. Granted if there’s a legit track record, like you mentioned, then there’s probably something to think about. Ever since I read that thread about the battle field Vegas range I’ve come to the conclusion that everything will break eventually.

 

[S197]

Hello, I am finally building my first AR and I've been offered either a Colt LE6920 or Colt 6720-A3 Upper to go on my lower with a RRA 2 Stage NM trigger. I've heard that the pencil barrel of the 6720 is prone to heat fatigue but I am skeptical of the validity of AR15.com overall. It's about a $50 difference between them so price is irrelevant and both are new and unfired (The 6720 has been in storage.) I'm looking for recommendations because I likely will only have one for a long time. I am looking for a range toy primarily, I know neither of these is a precision rifle but I would like to stretch it out to maybe 300 yards.
Thank you.

How much are they asking? For some reason colts are highly regarded on Arcom and typically over priced.

 

[rafiki76]

How much are they asking? For some reason colts are highly regarded on Arcom and typically over priced.

Not on Ar.com, but $1,050 (shipped) for the 6721, and $1,000 for the LE6920

 

[S197]

Thank you, I'm glad to hear the barrel profile isn't extremely relevant for civilian use because I prefer the look of the 6720 a little more. Hopefully AR's won't be banned by the time I have grandkids lol.

There is a huge difference between barrel profiles if you are considering a pencil barrel. What is your definition of a range toy? For me, that would be a high volume of rounds with various ammo.
a pencil profile barrel is only good to lighten the overall weight but with a thinner profile you will have increased barrel whip, and heat related problems.
unless you are going on long walks, stick with a government, socom or hbar. You will have a better performance throughout your range trip.

 

[S197]

Not on Ar.com, but $1,050 (shipped) for the 6721, and $1,000 for the LE6920

For a complete rifle or just an upper? If it is just an upper, they are over priced.

 

[S197]

COLT M4 5.56 UPPER RECEIVER GROUPS | Brownells

Add the Colt legend of reliability to your rifle or build with these complete feature 1/7 RH twist in a chrome lined, button rifled barrel. Available with or without a charging handle, bolt carrier group, and back up sights. All NFA rules apply. N...

www.brownells.com

they have a stripped 6920 in stock for 560, and you can find coupons for brownells

make a list of options that you want, and what you want your rifle to do and how you are going to run it. We will be able to get you on the right path.

 

[rafiki76]

For a complete rifle or just an upper? If it is just an upper, they are over priced.

For the upper and BCG/CH. I know they're overpriced but CA gun laws make everything overpriced here and Covid isn't helping. Thank you for the Brownells link, now just gotta find a BCG.

I see your point on barrel whip, would the HBAR 6721 16" suffer from these problems as well?

 

[S197]

There would be less. I believe the 16” hbar weighs almost 1lb more then a government profile.

 

[rafiki76]

There would be less. I believe the 16” hbar weighs almost 1lb more then a government profile.

Ok I’ll contact the seller and try to confirm the HBAR then. Is there anyway to verify it is a HBAR?

 

[S197]

Watch these postings on reddit for deals on bcg’s.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[S197]

Ok I’ll contact the seller and try to confirm the HBAR then. Is there anyway to verify it is a HBAR?

Stick with the 6920, as it is in the middle between a pencil and hbar.

*******also at 1000.00 there are a lot better options available then the colt he is selling.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Tool craft BCG

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-toolcraft-5-56-phosphate-mpi-full-auto-bolt-carrier-group-no-logo.html

I would pick one of these up as it's hard to fin any BCGs out there right now

 

[rafiki76]

Stick with the 6920, as it is in the middle between a pencil and hbar.

*******also at 1000.00 there are a lot better options available then the colt he is selling.

I found another local guy selling a complete 6920 for $850, would that be fair?

 

[rafiki76]

Tool craft BCG

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-toolcraft-5-56-phosphate-mpi-full-auto-bolt-carrier-group-no-logo.html

I have a PSA lower but I’ve heard a lot of comments on PSA quality, is it an acceptable BCG or should I go with a Wilson or Noveske?

 

[S197]

SHOP

Find the best selection and prices on in-stock Complete Uppers.

www.whiteoakarmament.com

M4 SOCOM Complete Upper

Centurion Arms, with our team of combat experts have created the best weaponry for sale. Made for and trusted by SEALs, we take great pride in our products.

centurionarms.com

AR-15 Complete Upper Receivers - Bravo Company USA

Shop BCM complete AR uppers! Each complete upper receiver group is manufactured with the end user in mind & goes through stringent quality control testing

bravocompanyusa.com

 

[db2000]

6920. Good weight and 1:7 twist, which later you may be glad you have when you or your grandkids want to stretch the distance out with heavier bullets.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

I have a PSA lower but I’ve heard a lot of comments on PSA quality, is it an acceptable BCG or should I go with a Wilson or Noveske?

If you can find the others go for it. Tool Craft makes BCGs for other companies. This one on PSA is a good one. I just got two of them that I will keep around in case I need one.

 

[rafiki76]

6920. Good weight and 1:7 twist, which later you may be glad you have when you or your grandkids want to stretch the distance out with heavier bullets.

Thank you for the advice, I’m starting to lean back towards the 6920.

 

[rafiki76]

If you can find the others go for it. Tool Craft makes BCGs for other companies. This one on PSA is a good one. I just got two of them that I will keep around in case I need one.

I found a Wilson and a neveske, I can’t find a colt anywhere for less than $500 but I’ll keep the PSA in mind. I’m just worried about having to replace it later, I’d rather buy one upfront that doesn’t need to be replaced.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

I found a Wilson and a neveske, I can’t find a colt anywhere for less than $500 but I’ll keep the PSA in mind. I’m just worried about having to replace it later, I’d rather buy one upfront that doesn’t need to be replaced.

I hear you. Tool craft has been good to go for years. Making BCGs is their thing, but I am not here to sell it to you. I don't make commission for selling others peoples shit

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Thank you for the advice, I’m starting to lean back towards the 6920.

Look at the link for the BCM uppers that S197 posted. For me I'd get one of those before the Colt.

 

[rafiki76]

Look at the link for the BCM uppers that S197 posted. For me I'd get one of those before the Colt.

All the 16” M4 styles are out of stock. Are there concerns with the colt uppers?

 

[rafiki76]

I hear you. Tool craft has been good to go for years. Making BCGs is their thing, but I am not here to sell it to you. I don't make commission for selling others peoples shit

I appreciate it, having you vouch for it makes me feel a lot better. I know people like to perpetuate myths over cheaper parts sometimes so I want to make sure I do my due diligence.

 

[Neurotic]

For that price you could put together an upper that's exactly what you want, rather than what Colt put together.

If I only had one AR I'd make certain it checked all my boxes. Probably a mid-weight (not government profile) barrel or a continuously contoured barrel like a Criterion Core or Larue in 16-18", 1:8 twist. Then add in a nice free float handguard, Ultradyne Mercury muzzle brake, Wojtek or Superlative Arms AGB, and a quality upper receiver.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

All the 16” M4 styles are out of stock. Are there concerns with the colt uppers?

Does Colt actually make anything anymore? Colt buys its upper and lowers just like everyone else and then machines them to mil spec. BCM does the same thing.

Look at this one:

BCM® Standard 16" Mid Length (ENHANCED Light Weight) Complete Upper Receiver Group w/ MCMR-15 Handguard

Mid Length 16" Upper Receiver Group (Enhanced Lightweight). This AR15 Upper comes with MCMR-15 handguard, 16in barrel & your choice of muzzle device.

bravocompanyusa.com

 

[rafiki76]

Does Colt actually make anything anymore? Colt buys its upper and lowers just like everyone else and then machines them to mil spec. BCM does the same thing.

Look at this one:

BCM® Standard 16" Mid Length (ENHANCED Light Weight) Complete Upper Receiver Group w/ MCMR-15 Handguard

Mid Length 16" Upper Receiver Group (Enhanced Lightweight). This AR15 Upper comes with MCMR-15 handguard, 16in barrel & your choice of muzzle device.

bravocompanyusa.com

Thank you for the link, I’m aiming for more of a M4 style upper, but the price is fair and it is in stock lol. I have heard new colt isn’t as solid as old colt.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Thank you for the link, I’m aiming for more of a M4 style upper, but the price is fair and it is in stock lol. I have heard new colt isn’t as solid as old colt.

Do want the M4 style because it was an issued weapon or just like the looks? The MCMR will allow you to mount things like lights. etc...

 

[rafiki76]

Do want the M4 style because it was an issued weapon or just like the looks? The MCMR will allow you to mount things like lights. etc...

I never served, it’s mostly for aesthetics. I’ve always loved that style.

 

[rafiki76]

For that price you could put together an upper that's exactly what you want, rather than what Colt put together.

If I only had one AR I'd make certain it checked all my boxes. Probably a mid-weight (not government profile) barrel or a continuously contoured barrel like a Criterion Core or Larue in 16-18", 1:8 twist. Then add in a nice free float handguard, Ultradyne Mercury muzzle brake, Wojtek or Superlative Arms AGB, and a quality upper receiver.

I looked into that but I’m not sure I both have the tools and the knowledge to build an upper yet.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

 

[Neurotic]

I looked into that but I’m not sure I both have the tools and the knowledge to build an upper yet.

It's not very difficult, and doesn't require many tools if you already have a decent vise and torque wrench. Beyond those, you could get away with just a Magpul BEV block for barrel and muzzle device installation and a Knipex Pliers-Wrench for the gas block roll pin install. You may want roll pin punches to remove the pin, but that's not necessary for assembly.

 

[rafiki76]

It's not very difficult, and doesn't require many tools if you already have a decent vise and torque wrench. Beyond those, you could get away with just a Magpul BEV block for barrel and muzzle device installation and a Knipex Pliers-Wrench for the gas block roll pin install. You may want roll pin punches to remove the pin, but that's not necessary for assembly.

I have a 1/2” torque wrench for my cars and a decent vise. I’ll look into building one. Thanks for he heads up.

 

[msgriff]

SRC Relia-Bolt DLC BCG $185
I don't have the AR-15 version of this BCG, but do run the 308's in my large frames and would recommend them. 6-8 years ago the AR-15 Relia-Bolts had a batch with improper heat treatment which were prone to breakage. Turned a lot of people off from trying them afterwards. I haven't heard of any problems since that bad batch, which were all replaced by Sharps. They do have a lifetime warranty, but the company did file for Chapter 11 in 2019, which I believe has been resolved. I think it's worth the extra $40 over the PSA phosphate BCG. BTW, Toolcraft only makes carriers, the bolts are sourced from various Mfg's.
https://www.srcarms.com/shop/specials/complete-xtreme-performance-bolt-xpb-carrier-group-complete/

 

[CrabsandFootball]

The Colt 6720 is the best rifle they make/made.

Hands down buy it, especially at that price. The only drawback is the RR trigger, but that can be swapped to something serviceable for less than $100.

If its a 6721, take the 6920 instead.

There people talking about putting together an upper or these other obscure shit builds are ridiculous. Colt is the gold standard, will hold or go up in value and you can shoot the living piss out of it and not worry.

 

[rafiki76]

The Colt 6720 is the best rifle they make/made.

Hands down buy it, especially at that price. The only drawback is the RR trigger, but that can be swapped to something serviceable for less than $100.

If its a 6721, take the 6920 instead.

There people talking about putting together an upper or these other obscure shit builds are ridiculous. Colt is the gold standard, will hold or go up in value and you can shoot the living piss out of it and not worry.

Thank you for the advice, I wished I asked here before I bought the LPK. What is it about the 6721 that makes it worse than the 6720? I found one with a 16” heavy barrel that I’m liking.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Thank you for the advice, I wished I asked here before I bought the LPK. What is it about the 6721 that makes it worse than the 6720? I found one with a 16” heavy barrel that I’m liking.

Yea its the Heavy Barrel.

The reason the 6720 is preferable to the 6920 is the light Barrel. It doesn't have the stupid m4/m203 cuts that A serve no purpose for a civilian, B. Look retarded and C. add unnecessary weight.

The 6721 is basically a HBAR 16".

The Lightness of the 6720 makes it handle very well, reminiscent of the older SP1 Carbines and early CAR15 guns before AR's got fat and heavy.

Driving those lightweight classic guns is a real pleasure plus much easier to carry on your back all day.

If you ever had to hold at the low & high ready for hours, you would appreciate the svelte guns.

I have been building AR's for a few decades, have built and worked on thousands. There are still a few guns I will buy because I know they will just run and are build correctly. Colt, BCM, LMT & KAC.

Colt is the gold standard even if they went to shit the last few years. Everything colt carriers a premium becuase its premium quality. Small parts and components are held to a much higher standard and you end up with a gun that you can trust your life to, not to mention they hold their value well.

The other great colt product is their 11.5" uppers if you can snag one. Great for Pistol/SBR builds or even doing Clone builds.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Also , Colt 6920's have been selling for $2500-3200 on GB the last few months. If you can get them cheap, do it. They have been as low as $799 in the past but usualy hover around 1-1.1k

 

[rafiki76]

Yea its the Heavy Barrel.

The reason the 6720 is preferable to the 6920 is the light Barrel. It doesn't have the stupid m4/m203 cuts that A serve no purpose for a civilian, B. Look retarded and C. add unnecessary weight.

The 6721 is basically a HBAR 16".

The Lightness of the 6720 makes it handle very well, reminiscent of the older SP1 Carbines and early CAR15 guns before AR's got fat and heavy.

Driving those lightweight classic guns is a real pleasure plus much easier to carry on your back all day.

If you ever had to hold at the low & high ready for hours, you would appreciate the svelte guns.

I have been building AR's for a few decades, have built and worked on thousands. There are still a few guns I will buy because I know they will just run and are build correctly. Colt, BCM, LMT & KAC.

Colt is the gold standard even if they went to shit the last few years. Everything colt carriers a premium becuase its premium quality. Small parts and components are held to a much higher standard and you end up with a gun that you can trust your life to, not to mention they hold their value well.

The other great colt product is their 11.5" uppers if you can snag one. Great for Pistol/SBR builds or even doing Clone builds.

Ah I see now. Thanks for the advice. I don’t plan on doing much drills with the carbine and I don’t expect to carry it further than its case to the shooting line. Would the decrease in weight be worth the possible decrease in accuracy or thermal efficiency?

 

[msgriff]

I'm not going to express my opinion regarding Colt, but you will be getting a "Pre-CZ" product which may or may not add to the value.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Accuracy will be a wash between all of them. You and the Ammo will determine the accuracy more than the variance between those guns. All have barrels made on the same machines to same tollerances. They are all chrome lined so throat erostion from heat will be minimized.

I have done carbine courses 750+ rounds a day, multiple days in a row with a LW barrel with no issues. If you are planning to do mag dumps or use it on a full auto host, then yea there will be issues.

A lighter barrel will heat up faster but will cool faster. Heavier barrel is more stable for accurate long range shooting like highpower but anything on the move give me the lighter gun every day.

Most newer shooters gravitate towards the cool looking and heavy shit, then overtime as they shoot more and learn they start to refine their gear to lighten it up and streamline it. Think of it as skipping a few years and thousands of dollars to get to where you will end up anyway.

 

[rafiki76]

Accuracy will be a wash between all of them. You and the Ammo will determine the accuracy more than the variance between those guns. All have barrels made on the same machines to same tollerances.

I have done carbine courses 750+ rounds a day, multiple days in a row with a LW barrel with no issues. If you are planning to do mag dumps or use it on a full auto host, then yea there will be issues.

A lighter barrel will heat up faster but will cool faster. Heavier barrel is more stable for accurate long range shooting like highpower but anything on the move give me the lighter gun every day.

Most newer shooters gravitate towards the cool looking and heavy shit, then overtime as they shoot more and learn they start to refine their gear to lighten it up and streamline it. Think of it as skipping a few years and thousands of dollars to get to where you will end up anyway.

Thank you I think I will go with the 6720 then. I know it’s true with cars I prefer stripped down. I am a college student in CA, I will never be able to get a full auto lower.

 

[Neurotic]

The Colt 6720 is the best rifle they make/made.

Hands down buy it, especially at that price. The only drawback is the RR trigger, but that can be swapped to something serviceable for less than $100.

If its a 6721, take the 6920 instead.

There people talking about putting together an upper or these other obscure shit builds are ridiculous. Colt is the gold standard, will hold or go up in value and you can shoot the living piss out of it and not worry.

The gold standard in bankruptcies?