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Form 1 supressors mass denial.

why did they all of a sudden decide to go after form1 builds? (rhetorical question, i know the answer is because they can).

its not like they aren't getting their $200 bucks for the stamp. i could at least see the mental gymnastics with braces because they weren't getting their $200 for SBR's anymore.

but seriously this just doesn't pass the smell test for me. maybe my tinfoil is too tight but who was losing money in this? its always about the money

If they can setup arbitrary rules on forms to deny people, they can keep incrementing the rules so that no one ever passes their test. Start with form 1 to set precedent, then move onto the others. Eventually no one will pass any of their checks on anything.
 
Zw

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Don't worry, the new streamlined eform 4 system will have your mount approved in 60-90 days! Any law abiding citizen should be willing to wait a couple months if it means everyone else is a safer. God forbid an end cap get into the wrong hands and cause a mass shooting.
 
This is a mess. Been following it for a couple days on form1. There has been a decent amount of input there; enough to deduce that the disapproval is not limited to DM customers. Or ANY solvent companies customers for that matter. People who haven't even ordered raw material have received this.

QB is one of the key players here, IMO. When they got pinched, they made a policy change.

QB sold solvent traps: when they got in bed with the feds, their inventory alone gave them enough to go after all of F1 market. The parts, types, shapes, locations, uses, etc., all sold under one roof. Then, they required an approved F1 for purchase; effectively luring their customer base into VOLUNTARILY admitting what the parts would be used for. Bingo. There's your intent.

They got out of the hot seat, by helping toss all of the F1 world into the fire. No doubt it has helped set precedent for the garbage were seeing now.

It also pisses the crown off, when they don't have full control. Like an evil step-parent. Lots of records and such involved with F4; not as much with F1
Not shocked, the owner was an assclown when I dealt with him.
 
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All at a cost much higher than if done privately. The government is the reason all the things you listed cost as much as they do. Invasion? From who? Evrn without a standing army i highly doubt it.
What is the mass crossing of the southern boarder by people who are not entering the country legally? A few would be a problem. With close to or over 1M, I would call that an invasion.
 
What is the mass crossing of the southern boarder by people who are not entering the country legally? A few would be a problem. With close to or over 1M, I would call that an invasion.
Is that supposed to be a argument in defense of the feds? Id say they are the cuase there not the solution. Im sure texans would be more than happy to stop it if the fed gtfo of their way
 
Is that supposed to be a argument in defense of the feds? Id say they are the cuase there not the solution. Im sure texans would be more than happy to stop it if the fed gtfo of their way

There would also be a lot of non-Texans that would be willing to demonstrate some of their skill sets to assist.
 
Dear sirs;
I have no parts because I need the legal documentation before obtaining them.
I plan to acquire raw billet stock once I receive permission to do so.
I cannot draw up any plans for said device as I do not have permission to do so from you (the BATFE) and I can only assume a drawing might be illegal per recent BATFE actions.
Can I assign it a serial number, model number, or part name, or do I have to await permission to do that also ?
I am very leery of breaking the law and as we both know it changes moment to moment based upon which ever agent is tending my specific case and their mental and/or emotional state at any specific moment.
Is it OK to even be writing out these questions or is that best handled by a lawyer that is held to strictest client/attorney contractual silence ?

Thus, I present my application and payment of a $200 tax stamp to be issued in accordance with the law to allow the purchase of raw materials to be reshaped in a specific manner.

That about cover it ?
 
I have more thoughts to add based on some developments.

First, I had two form 1 cans pending. One was flat out disapproved based on the mass denial language everyone else received. This was a .22 can.

The second pending approval is a .223 can. I received the above email yesterday asking for new info in order to obtain approval.

Might be paranoid thinking, but I don't think this is a random occurrence in disapproving the .22 and asking for more info for the .223 can.

It would seem by asking for more info direct to the .223 can, they are asking us to narc on who we bought our kits from so they can then go in and shut those guys down. The ATF knows there's thousands of folks with the machines to produce suppressors commercially. They obviously want to know who they are and what they offer in order to shut them down.

Why else the picking and choosing of which of my cans get approved based on follow up info?
 
I have more thoughts to add based on some developments.

First, I had two form 1 cans pending. One was flat out disapproved based on the mass denial language everyone else received. This was a .22 can.

The second pending approval is a .223 can. I received the above email yesterday asking for new info in order to obtain approval.

Might be paranoid thinking, but I don't think this is a random occurrence in disapproving the .22 and asking for more info for the .223 can.

It would seem by asking for more info direct to the .223 can, they are asking us to narc on who we bought our kits from so they can then go in and shut those guys down. The ATF knows there's thousands of folks with the machines to produce suppressors commercially. They obviously want to know who they are and what they offer in order to shut them down.

Why else the picking and choosing of which of my cans get approved based on follow up info?
You're giving them way too much credit.
 
It would seem by asking for more info direct to the .223 can, they are asking us to narc on who we bought our kits from so they can then go in and shut those guys down. The ATF knows there's thousands of folks with the machines to produce suppressors commercially. They obviously want to know who they are and what they offer in order to shut them down.
This right here! They are now asking everyone to narc out where they got their supplies from so they don't have to do the hard work of trying to figure out who is out there selling these kits.

They want the customer lists of EVERYONE that has bought a solvent trap.

This is getting beyond ridiculous.
 
This right here! They are now asking everyone to narc out where they got their supplies from so they don't have to do the hard work of trying to figure out who is out there selling these kits.

They want the customer lists of EVERYONE that has bought a solvent trap.

This is getting beyond ridiculous.

I think it's pretty clear what they eventually want and the writing is on the wall for anyone who was engaged in the business of selling "kits" and anyone who legally built one.

The only chance to turn this around is a significant change in political power AND the Republicans actually breaking form and doing something positive for the people that voted for them (even less likely).

BUT this is NOT the big event, this is a dry run for the big event.
The big event is going after 80% lowers for building your own ARs once they pass their new "regulation interpretation" that makes an AR upper housing also considered part of the "firearm" in combination with the lower.

Just because the DemonRats haven't openly passed new laws banning guns, doesn't mean they aren't having all their vile stooges in the administrative branch of the government try to do the same thing by decree and rule making. And good luck getting the Republicans to do much other than ask for money.
 
I got the same email as above today. I sent my reply telling them I didn't have pics because I don't have any materials yet. I did list the metal store where I will buy the stock and tubing, since they asked. Not sure why they'd care where I bought bar stock and tubing unless they do plan to collect info on "kit " makers. Told them of how I will use a lathe to turn and thread pipe and turn down baffles and that I will use a mill to clip. We'll see what they say. Interesting to see if their plan is to deny all f-1's. Thinking I better just go buy another couple on f-4's and not deal with the hassle. Fun to make f-1's but if its that big of a problem now, not sure if its worth it.

I asked if they wanted this information and they just re did the e-forms site, why we weren't asked for it then. My f-1 was submitted on 10/18/21 so Im a little annoyed at this point.
 
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They wont regulate the product, theyll regulate materials. ID, SS#, and vaccination status next time you go to Home Depot for threaded pipe.
 
I got the same email as above today. I sent my reply telling them I didn't have pics because I don't have any materials yet. I did list the metal store where I will buy the stock and tubing, since they asked. Not sure why they'd care where I bought bar stock and tubing unless they do plan to collect info on "kit " makers. Told them of how I will use a lathe to turn and thread pipe and turn down baffles and that I will use a mill to clip. We'll see what they say. Interesting to see if their plan is to deny all f-1's. Thinking I better just go buy another couple on f-4's and not deal with the hassle. Fun to make f-1's but if its that big of a problem now, not sure if its worth it.

I asked if they wanted this information and they just re did the e-forms site, why we weren't asked for it then. My f-1 was submitted on 10/18/21 so Im a little annoyed at this point.
I sent mine in on Oct. 1, and got my approved stamp in an email roughly 3 weeks later. Once I had the stamp and forwarded it - Quietbore mailed me the kit to finish.
 
I sent mine in on Oct. 1, and got my approved stamp in an email roughly 3 weeks later. Once I had the stamp and forwarded it - Quietbore mailed me the kit to finish.

You have my sympathies for your upcoming loss.

QB will be turning over their customer list to the ATF and the ATF will be "allowing" you to forfeit the item you paid for and paid them a tax for.
 
You have my sympathies for your upcoming loss.

QB will be turning over their customer list to the ATF and the ATF will be "allowing" you to forfeit the item you paid for and paid them a tax for.
Maybe.

Then how long before they come after Form 4 suppressors also?
Same tax paid.
Same purpose.
 
A guy on a hunting page posted this.

Seems they are seeing if you are making the parts yourself as it was designed.

Or from a kit (solvent trap). Then going after them.

They should just abolish themselves.
 

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You have my sympathies for your upcoming loss.

QB will be turning over their customer list to the ATF and the ATF will be "allowing" you to forfeit the item you paid for and paid them a tax for.

since they make the rules AND interpret them, the old "oops we shouldn't have allowed this before even though we did. give it up now or you're a felon" is coming to everyone that is on those customer lists.
 
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Maybe.

Then how long before they come after Form 4 suppressors also?
Same tax paid.
Same purpose.
F4's are built by SOT's (who pay tax) and are in the clear. What the ATF doesn't want is for F1 to be easily attainable for the average citizen to build their own on or off the books. They realize that where things are going, the off the books jobs will happen more and more so they want to crack down on that
 
F4's are built by SOT's (who pay tax) and are in the clear. What the ATF doesn't want is for F1 to be easily attainable for the average citizen to build their own on or off the books. They realize that where things are going, the off the books jobs will happen more and more so they want to crack down on that
Off the books jobs?
Millions of people have the resources and equipment and skills to manufacture their own suppressors - if they actually wanted to.

I do not see where allowing manufacturers to make kits, providing a legal source for them through the Form 1 structure, and employing people and providing jobs is a bad thing. "Cracking Down" on a muffler is freakin' stupid to begin with.
 
Off the books jobs?
Millions of people have the resources and equipment and skills to manufacture their own suppressors - if they actually wanted to.

I do not see where allowing manufacturers to make kits, providing a legal source for them through the Form 1 structure, and employing people and providing jobs is a bad thing. "Cracking Down" on a muffler is freakin' stupid to begin with.
Totally agree, just being realistic with what is happening. Best case is .gov provides organization for defense and infrastructure; nothing more
 
Maybe.

Then how long before they come after Form 4 suppressors also?
Same tax paid.
Same purpose.

That will only happen when they go for the full grab.

Form 1 is low hanging fruit they can grab by "interpretation"

Eventually they will come for all the rest by legislation when they have the numbers.
 
What is most likely to happen is that solvent trap manufacturers that want to stay in business either transition to suppressor manufacturers, or ‘suppressor kit’ manufacturers- both of which do or will transfer on a form 4.
 
I was waiting for the new eforms system to get debugged and fully operational, so I could start another Form-1 suppressor project.
FUBAR
Now I will have to form-4 a manufactured one, at 4x the $$$.
 
Based on the research I did and never followed up on, buying materials for a quality form 1 suppressor didn’t save much money vs buying a finished form4 suppressor. What really drives/drove demand for form1 building is/was the short approval times.

Here’s my hope for a ‘silver lining’ to this whole mess. Diversified Machine and all of the other ‘solvent trap’ manufacturers get their collective dicks slapped by the ATF. They take that like men/women/toasters/whatever they identify as and pay their special occupation tax to become suppressor manufacturers. They all come out of the shadows to build either finished suppressors, or form 4 kits ready for final assembly at home. They then go further and supply actual customer service and support. And, they all drop the silly battery based sizing scheme.

More than anything else, what kept me from buying into Form 1 suppressors was the frustration of not being able to get all parts from one vendor, not being absolutely sure that parts from vendor A would fit with parts from vendor B, and the veil of secrecy that kept all vendors from providing any CS to their customers. While the extended waits of the Form 4 vs the eForm 1 do suck, the eForm 4 process promises to bring that down to 2-3 months. The jury is still out on that, but I’m told that “hope is a plan.”
 
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What really drives/drove demand for form1 building is/was the short approval times.
I agree with this completely, if they could get the wait time on form 4s down to 2 months I think the Form 1s for suppressors almost goes away on it's own. A few people really want to build their own because they can, some think they can do it on the cheap, but most just don't want to wait a year before they can play.
 
Relative stack height. If there are 5000 in front of you in one pile, and 50 in front of you in the other pile, which one do you get through faster?
It’s government.
They have never had any issues with hiring more help, or expanding their empire.... when it suits them.
 
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