You can bet there was some pansy ass supervisors telling them not to go, most would not go in for fear of losing their job, being hurt, but a REAL police officer would have just did it.
- Thread starter Im2bent
- Start date
I know MANY communities require even a private residence if it has an automatic gate to have a master key for FD. One would think they'd have one for a school. But then "thinking" the obvious has been done is what leads to failure.
Again, this needs to be studied like a plane crash; there appear to be multiple things going on in the timeline that only time (and if even that small snowball's chance, TRUTH) will tell.
Not really, sport.
Not much studying necessary.
The TRUTH is, the law stayed out of the building 40 mins as kids were slaughtered.
Seems pretty straight foward
No CQB experience, but I would acquire some, quick, if I knew a gunman was in a school killing kids.
I've lived a long, fairly good life. Some of it sucked but it would suck worse if I went out knowing I sat by as a fucking coward while kids were being murdered.
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Sickening read if true Police holding back parents from going in to try to save their own children. I thought the protocol after Columbine was to enter immediately if armed.
The one thing to remember in any one of these types of this is that its a shit sandwich that everyone must take a bite of. Families lose loved ones. Cops and first responders get second guessed for every thing they did, didn't do, should have done, or should NOT have done.
I'm certainly not saying everything was done correctly but at the end of the day a piece of shit turned on defenseless kids. He is the one to blame while everyone else has to pick up the pieces of whats left and carry on.
I'm certainly not saying everything was done correctly but at the end of the day a piece of shit turned on defenseless kids. He is the one to blame while everyone else has to pick up the pieces of whats left and carry on.
So Bette Midler tweeted that protestors should come to the NRA convention “armed with guns.”
Does she think we’re scared of people with guns at an NRA convention?
You can’t make this shut up.
Does she think we’re scared of people with guns at an NRA convention?
You can’t make this shut up.
We should invite her to a 2A rally and watch her shrivel and whither in the glow of a few thousand people who are all armed and where it's the safest place to be in the state.
I wonder how many times you address people in front of your face as "sport?" My guess is NEVER.
My point on the "crash" type investigation is just that. Follow the evidence trail. Examples: 1) we need to find out if his Juvi records had shit in them. 2) how'd he get the funds? 3) what meds, if any was he on (or supposed to be on). 4) was he already on a list that didn't get submitted to background check 5) why did cops wait? 6) were there orders to not go in ? 7) If so, why the wait (political?).
If it really was 40 minutes (as apparently reported according to "sportster") standing around listening to the slaughter, every one of those "police" should do the honorable Japanese thing. DISGRACEFUL.
Trust me, I'm as pro-2A as they get; but we can all sit here and preach 2A, guns don't kill people (they don't) but yet, how is it these things keep happening? Trust me, I have a VERY good female friend who teaches. She loves shooting. Hell, she's a more natural at rifle than I'll ever be; but, I had to talk her off the cliff last night because elementary aged kids were MURDERED. It's a VERY, VERY hard sell the way the gun community markets things...it's always "guns don't kill" and shit (I'm guilty of saying this as well). Well, they're definitely an instrument of killing, just like any explosive could be.
If the politicians were really serious about stopping violence, they'd look at the person, not the method of delivery. WHAT about that person led to the event? THAT has been my point and remains my point. If we truly believe "guns don't kill people" then we, the 2A crowd, need to get serious about figuring out why this keeps happening.
We're going to continue to lose rights. We cannot even get along like civilized children on the hide on an issue we all pretty much agree upon. So, just how then can the pro-2A crowd sell their ideas to the general public? How do we actually think this isn't going to end up with a ban of some nature on AR-15 and what I'll call more appropriate "modern sporting rifles." The public sees what the propaganda and ministry of truth want them to see: Shiny new AR-15's, just purchased. That's what the narrative is. They show those new AR-15s, then the list of the dead, the ages of the dead, the destroyed familys and THAT is what we, the 2A crowd, are up against.
And...Wayne cannot possibly get a suit nice enough to make this look anything other than what it is....a complete game changer (though the game changer should be mental health!!)
These shootings will not stop until we afford our children, at a minimum, the same security you see at an airport or a courthouse. The only way to end these acts is to have armed, trained security. Period. You can ban all of the MSRs and firearms that you want, evil people will find a way, unless there are good people with the proper training to end these threats on the spot. It is an act that is sensationalized by the media and the Democratic left to push their anti 2A agenda. It sounds cliché, but the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. If this happens long enough these sadistic bastards will learn that it is an instant death sentence to prey upon our kids.
If any of these parents ever felt that only the police and military should have guns, do they feel that way now?
If any of these parents ever felt like they had to "back the blue" no matter what, do they feel that way now?
Did any of these parents oppose arming the teachers in school? Do they feel that way now?
Did any of these parents ever look down upon home-schoolers? Do they feel that way now?
- Nov 3, 2010
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Can you imagine the next bit of conversation. We are going to take your handcuffs off, so you can go positively identify your child in the morgue.
I'm on page 10 so still catching up.
We'll see how the official timeline of events comes out. My guess is he was barricaded in the room for the 60-90 minutes and that's where the delay came from.
What all the Monday morning quarter backs don't realize is if a man with a gun runs into a room with a bunch of kids and DOESN'T start shooting...
You don't kick the door in and go after him. It becomes a hostage scenario. You get prepped to go in an instant but you don't want to push him to start something he hasn't initiated on his own.
I'm guessing the border patrol guy went in when the shooting started. They sure as shit had plenty of time to get ready.
And it certainly doesn't take 90 minutes to kill 18 kids. If he did the killing on the front end and they didn't scorch the Earth pursuing him they're in some deep shit.
We'll see see soon enough.
If this is the scene at Uvalde, then all those kitted up police are truly disgraceful. Any Lance Corporal could organize them and motivate them in 5 minutes to take the structure. Behold the Uvalde Chickens.
The Mayor and Sheriff should be primaried and the officers fired for cause with prejudice. The Governor should request TCOLE to revoke their commission.
The current SOP is to flood the structure and stop the shooter and to immediately triage and evac the victims. No hostage situations are allowed in this case. The victims are bleeding out and getting them treated is imperative.
The BORTAC agent assaulted the room 40-60 minutes after it began.
"Active shootings can result in a number of casualties in a short period of time, generally before officers or other emergency responders can even be summoned. In spite of this logistical disadvantage, it has been recognized that even one or two armed officers can make a difference in the outcome of active shootings by taking swift, but calculated, individual or coordinated action. For example, during the 2009 Fort Hood, Texas, shooting, two officers in close proximity to the incident took immediate action that successfully stopped the threat. Given this and similar incidents, current thinking reemphasizes that, given proper justification as defined by law and agency policy, taking immediate action during active shooter incidents, rather than waiting for specially equipped and trained officers, can save lives and prevent serious injuries. Time lost by delayed action is likely to result in additional casualties. Quick integration and deployment of life-saving measures and personnel into the initial response effort must be accomplished to minimize the impact of these types of incidents. Early medical intervention and rapid transportation to an appropriate treatment facility3 are the most important factors to limit loss of life. Agency policies should include adaptable options for evolving threats that make the best use of available personnel to immediately suppress the threat and to treat and transport the injured."
Or more likely, they are in jail and get the official notification that their child is dead.
Or they are bailed out of jail then when they get home or turn their cell phone on they find out that their child is dead.
Or they decide to have a talk with the cop that arrested them later.
I call bullshit. A criminal could be waving a firearm or shooting it for what it’s worth and cops will chase that dude down (even shoot it in the back) as it’s a risk to public safety. Yet a kid pops his abuela then is witnessed entering a school with a firearm already displaying a hostile act and your gonna tell me cops need to post up because it could become a hostage situation!? That seems counterintuitive to any grown man with the ability to affect an outcome. Hostile act/ hostile intent was met and it should of been run down and slayed with prejudice……full stop.
Read what I said again. If he didn't shoot anybody it's not an active shooter it's a barricaded subject with hostages.
But here is the problem. Not a single one of us were there. There are dynamics at play thay can only be understood if you're there. Looking a pictures or video after the fact and then second guessing does no one any good.
Did this shit head already have a hostage situation in that classroom?
There's a lot that we don't know. If random parents were allowed in, how to police inside identity them from the bad guy?
Again, I'm not saying everything was done correctly but its a total no win for the officers on scene. Let the investigation take its course and let the emotions cool off.
Did this shit head already have a hostage situation in that classroom?
There's a lot that we don't know. If random parents were allowed in, how to police inside identity them from the bad guy?
Again, I'm not saying everything was done correctly but its a total no win for the officers on scene. Let the investigation take its course and let the emotions cool off.
You're looking back with the benefit of hindsight. Call bullshit all you like, you don't know WTF you're talking about. You're also putting words in my mouth. I never said stand outside with your thumb up your ass.
You get a team ready to go right outside the room, if he starts shooting or negotiations deteriorate you go in. But, if nobody's shot YET in the school, and he's locked himself in with a bunch of kids, you don't force mass murder of children by pounding on the door like an idiot posting about shit on a forum without any experience in law enforcement.
If he runs in and locks himself in a room and isn't shooting anybody it IS a hostage situation there's no "might become one" about it.
You dipshits love to espouse waiting for the details when it suits you but y'all sure love to say fuck it and judge everyone without any of the details when it's not one of your preferred groups in the limelight.
Why don't you wait and see what the deal was.
From bits and pieces gleamed from the media, shooting started long before the room was breached by the good guys.
Did they wait until the shooting stopped to go in?
Did they wait until the shooting stopped to go in?
Understood.
BTW I have set ignore on the trolls on this thread. Its really cleaned it up for me. Once someone goes tinfoil or off subject, I set ignore.
The shooter was being pursued by the cops after shooting his grandmother and it went all the way to the south pole from there.
1. Cops lost contact with him when he ran off into a ditch during pursuit and he left the vehicle.
2. Cops failed to re-engage as 911 calls came in about a man with a gun around the school.
3. Shooter ran into a school and began shooting. 911 calls from the school came in.
4. The cops stood around outside or ran inside to get their kids.
5. About an hour in a BORTAC agent ( think HRT or Heavy Infantry ) went in and got the shooter.
Here are the key questions
1. Who was the shooter and how did he get his weapons?
2. How did the police and/or 911 operations fuck up so bad?
3. Who from 1 and 2 shall be held accountable?
4. What should change from 1 and 2?
Well according to the new york communist times there was no rso that tried to stop him. He fired shots at people outside the school. He then jumped a fence and started shooting at the school before going in unimpeded.
Why you’re not wrong if the shooter hadn’t shot anyone yet, he had. The waiting game/hostage scenario should’ve been out the window. From an account of a survivor, when the cops finally knocked and asked if anyone needed help, a little girl called out. The waste of oxygen shot her then engaged the cops as they came in and ate a bullet. He’d already done most of the damage. Their waiting most likely cost many lives.
How many children bled out over the 40-60 min. time frame? Could some have been saved if given immediate first aid?
This is some fucked up shit!.
This is some fucked up shit!.
It will be interesting to see where the analysis goes.
I can conjure up a situation where the cops would have waited - if they thought dude was barricaded in the school but hadn't shot anyone inside it would be "lets get the negotiators in here" type situation.
Even worse, knowing if you are in a barricaded suspect situation or an active shooter situation can be super difficult. Especially if all the people that showed up weren't informed/weren't there when the guy was shooting.
I don't know if any of that's true, but there is certainly a Tetris move that could have created an (inappropriate) "lets wait" situation.
I'll be looking into it some more and see if I can find something.
Yes, he is the one that opened fire on the kids, BUT those that stood by allowing further kids to be shot AND those that were shot, to be allowed to bleed out. All of that is on the police depart and responding officers. You can't slice it any other way.
Even the civilians standing by knew the kids were dying while the police waited for tactical. Shame on the department and I hope the officers never get another night of restful sleep.
I don't think we really know WTF happened yet, that's my point. Timeline is unknown.
I read that while running to the school, he shot at 2 individuals (missing both), so someone saw him run into the school. I'm sure, he went in shooting and killing. It was only after the resource officer returned fire that he dropped his ammo bag and ran to a barricade situation.
I personally don't want to hear any excuses. You flood the building with police with medical right behind. You find the wounded, stabilize them, get them out of the building and transport to the hospitals. Period. Have we not learned from experience? Just because these kids were shot, doesn't mean they all have to die.
I need to ask 1 question. How many students that were shot came out of this as wounded and not DEAD?
The governor who did his part deceiving Texans all during Covid and barred thousands from working is no better and much worse than the mayor or sheriff. He also acknowledges an unconstitutional federal gov’t. He himself needs to go.
Dead kids are more valuable to democrats/communists and statist big gov types
Mmm yes, were you there? Perhaps you can tell us what happened rather than speculating wildly based on the same bullshit media you all laugh at the other 364 days a year for their incompetence
You're being an idiot, grow up
It’s not $40 billion it’s $58. There are just shy of 100k public schools in America. So, $58 billion divided by 100,000 is $580,000 per school. I would guess you could hire and SRO for $60k salary and bennies. In other words, you could add one SRO to every school in the country for roughly 10 years for the money we sent to Ukraine.
What do you mean “Let”? Government is not God.That's a fantastic idea, let's allow emotionally overloaded totally in the black parents to go running inside...
What could possibly go wrong?!
How many times have officials changed the narrative?
Was he confronted as he entered or did he come in an unlocked rear entrance?
"Contrary to information officials released earlier, the gunman was not confronted by a school police officer before entering Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, state Department of Public Safety South Texas Regional Director Victor Escalon said Thursday."
They likely got that info from the school's CCTV footage.
Those that have set me to "Ignore" won't see this post
Was he confronted as he entered or did he come in an unlocked rear entrance?
"Contrary to information officials released earlier, the gunman was not confronted by a school police officer before entering Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, state Department of Public Safety South Texas Regional Director Victor Escalon said Thursday."
They likely got that info from the school's CCTV footage.
Those that have set me to "Ignore" won't see this post
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I'm not surprised, at all.
Cops went against natural animal instinct of denying mothers and other adults from protecting the young.
Mitch McConnell Urges GOP to Work with Democrats on Gun Control Legislation
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...rk-with-democrats-on-gun-control-legislation/
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...rk-with-democrats-on-gun-control-legislation/
