Suppressors FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

[michael sr.]

When I first fired my Outback I was depressed at the loudness. I was using Hi-velocity ammo and the sound did not sound suppressed. What the heck was I gonna do with 2-five gallon buckets of Hi Vel .22 ammo that I had been collecting over the last few decades....???

Then I read about and leard about Sub-sonic ammo...and was pleased...and figured now I had to spend more time and money finding sub-sonic .22 ammo...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...


I had been in conversation about Suppressed .22 sound and expressed my mild disappointment when using standard/Hi velocity .22 ammo. Then person suggested a shorter barrel in a Ruger Mark ll, semi-auto 22.

BINGO...and at the same time I was humbled by my oversight..grrrrrrrrrr....after all for neary 2 decades every gun magazine I could buy and read I bought and 'red'! There was always an article about barrel length and velocity...Short barrels have/produce lower velocity.

I was in a pawn shop and found a Blue Mark ll, target 22/45.. less than $220 including tax. Of course I walked out with it in hand.

Then I took it to Gun and Machine in OMaha and he cut the barrel back to 4", re-mounted the front sight and threaded it for my Outback.

I went out to my Sister's house near Fremont Nebraska on Mother's day. Of course I took the new cut and threaded Ruger and 1/4-full bucket (small bucket) of HiVel .22 ammo and some Subsonic .22 ammo...

Fired one clip with HiVel then one Clip with SubSonic...

THEN I SCREWED ON THE OUTBACK...AFTER ONE CLIP OF SUBSONIC and after ONE FREAKING ROUND OF HI-VEL...I HAD A SCHIDT EATEN GRIN FROM EAR 2 EAR.... I COULD HARDLY TELL THE DIFFERENCE IN SOUND BETWEEN SUB AND HI VEL about the only difference I could tell was the cyclic action was a bit louder with HI-vel...NOT THE REPORT FROM THE MUZZLE...YE-HA........ Now those buckets of .22 ammo are pure gold for me...

And I am thrilled....

 

[KYS]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

Super. Glad you found your happy median. Suppressors are to much fun

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

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FYI, in a well regulated suppressor you can take hi velocities and they will be quiet. All you have done is drop your velocity to where hi velocity is now low velocity and low velocity is now good for a baffle strike. Whereas it will now be quieter, your solution only points out the failure of the Outback. Definitely set your subs aside.


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[michael sr.]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

Prolly not a failure of the OUtback just my inability to validate the difference in a credible way...I have other threaded .22's and I can check out your suggestion. I just have not done so...

 

[michael sr.]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..

FYI, in a well regulated suppressor you can take hi velocities and they will be quiet. All you have done is drop your velocity to where hi velocity is now low velocity and low velocity is now good for a baffle strike. Whereas it will now be quieter, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">your solution only points out the failure of the Outback</span></span></span>. Definitely set your subs aside. .. </div></div>
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I tested your suggestion this morning and found it 'different'...as well as my thought about a shorter barrel being more suited to Suppression.

I went to my bucket and grabbed and handfull of CCI, Yellow Jackets and Remington Gold's. Drove out, to the country found a dead end road with 2 foot dirt bank. I had with me my Outback, a Ruger 22/45 cut down to a 4" barrel and a Ruger 5.5" heavy barrel. Both threaded for my Outback.

Two mag's thru each Ruger.

Via my wife nagged, aged hearing I was not able to discern a difference is sound suppression. It seems I was wrong about the barrel length conclusion. Now this really pissed me off: I could'a put the money used for threading, cutting and remounting the front sight on barrel on the 22/45 to buying more .22 ammo!!! But! My mental pain was assuaged by the fact the I am in the 'hunt' to carry a suppressed Ruger Mark ll as a CCW.


During the last few years I have fired hand gun's and Rifle's - once in awhile- w/o hearing protection and it <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">HURT</span></span></span></span>! I found myself flinching when I played tricks on my mind by having another reload a rifle for me [my eyes closed] and me loading a handgun with one round, closing my eys spinning the cylinder then easing the cylinder back into the launch pad or with eyes closed putting the 10 round mag home, cycling the action then go into firing mode....each time I flinched because I new the sound wound <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #CC0000">HURT</span></span></span></span>.

Well, in a dire circumstance where I might have to use a firearm I CAN NOT AFFORD TO FLINCH because I am not wearing ear protection. I want to focus on putting all rounds down range into an area the size of the bottom of a beer can at 25 yards in a short period of time... which I can do.

I have selected to carry a Suppressed Ruger Mark ll/.22. With the Suppressor attached the Ruger is just too long, so I am thinking of having the barrel cut even shorter. So your suggestion about a short barrel, reduced velocity and baffle strikes are noted and I am not smart enough to address that concern.

Surely, some one here has that knowledge and they can address your concern's and I will call GEMTECH.

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">I was somewhat astounded that you were so quick to downgrade the Outback? I think you should have been more helpful -to me- in explaining your thought.</span></span>

 

[PLeighton]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

Bulk pack Rem Thunderbolts work well for me.

Try a bunch of different ammo and use what works for you...

 

[michael sr.]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

I have called Gemtech and talk with Joey...and the concerns you mention are not a concern but he is going to pass the issue on and if there maybe an issue he has my mobile number and email address...

Should I get a response from GemTech I will let you know.

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

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Mike, I'm not sure I follow all of what you have written, but I guess that you have come to the conclusion that something I wrote to you was a "suggestion" and something else was "wrong" and I needed to be more "helpful" to you.

Look, your concerned that when you run high velocity ammo through your suppressed .22 that it isn't quiet. That is because your suppressor is not doing what a good .22 suppressor is supposed to do. It's that simple. You were thrilled to find that if you start cutting your barrel way back that your .22 is now quieter.

That is because you are now attending to two (2) of the four (4) components of firearm noise, instead of just one (1).

They are:

1. Muzzle blast
2. Projectile Signature (supersonic flight)
3. Mechanical noise (action)
4. Operator Noise

When your pistol had its original length barrel you were attending to #1 as best as your unit could. That being, just your muzzle bast. The Outback does only a fair job at that. When you cut your barrel back your bullets were no longer able to get up enough speed to go supersonic anymore (if that is what happened) and you now were attending to #1 and #2. Now the bullet "crack" was absent. If you hold the bolt closed on the back of your Ruger .22 so that it won't cycle, you are attending to #1, #2 and #3. Now there is no more mechanical noise. If you do not drop the gun on your foot and start screaming you will be attending to #1, #2, #3 and #4. Now, no operator noise.

Your issue is that the Gemtech Outbacks are louder with .22s than some suppressed .45s are. You bought a louder .22 suppressor. Some other makes actually require high velocity rounds to be the quietest possible, that is because they are tuned to shift the frequency at that velocity.

I hope it all works out, a good suppressed .22 is very quiet, how quiet? Mouse fart quiet, especially if you hold the bolt closed.

Quiet like this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZCa4AZmn4g&feature=player_embedded

You are not alone when confronting the expense of threading and cutting and then going and buying a cheaper can and finding out "Hey, this thing is still loud, what gives?." Buy quality always.

..

 

[michael sr.]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

If you do not drop the gun on your foot and start screaming you will be attending to #1, #2, #3 and #4."
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this would be a very humbling experience...

As in the Utube flic... <span style="text-decoration: underline">integral</span> vs <span style="text-decoration: underline">can</span>...I have a screw on can...

Isn't the integral suppression inheritanly better than a screw on can?

 

[Tazman]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

I just purchased on of these and now you have me concerned. I bought a OutBack 2 and a Walther P22 but I don't have the suppressor home yet. What suppressor do you recommend?

 

[michael sr.]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tazman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just purchased on of these and now you have me concerned. I bought a OutBack 2 and a Walther P22 but I don't have the suppressor home yet. What suppressor do you recommend? </div></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">I AM NOT </span></span></span></span>concerned....I don't think you should be either! The video link in the post showed <span style="text-decoration: underline">different</span> mechanical approaches to the same issue. And my guess is the integral suppressor is better than a screw on can!


Some of what I've been able to put together about cans: Craftsman ship, materials [internal/external] used, internal and external design all have a monetary value. A $500 .22 can may only be a few decibals quiter than a $300 can. Some Cans are disigned to be taken apart, some are not, in this regard I suspect 'marketing' has influence!

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

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Mike, the only thing different about the Gemtech Suppressor and a whole bunch of others is the build quality, the internal design, the fact that the others are not aluminum, etc. etc.

A good blast can will beat the pants of the Outback as will a good integral. My goodness folks, we are talking about a .22 can here!

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[RollingThunder51]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

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Mike a few (3) dBs difference is twice as quiet. It's HUGE!

Understanding dBs..

http://www.tradcentral.com/ei6iz/HTML/DB1.html


..

 

[salmonaxe]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

My SWR Spectre can is quiet no matter what ammo type or barrel length I have. High velocity ammo in my 10/22 just produces a slightly different report. I think it might still be breaking the sound barrier or it's right on the edge of transsonic. It's pretty interesting sounding. Kinda like the sound of a far away gunshot reflecting off the hills. Not really audible or loud at the ears.

No matter what the velocity, all my .22lr pistols sound the same.

 

[glocker17]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

Your Outback is working fine. What you were hearing before is sonic crack. No can will be able to suppress that, no matter what the design. If the bullet leaves the barrel above the SOS it will be loud. Most HV bulk ammo will be sub sonic in a 4" barrel, and it wont have any extra chance of a baffle strike.

The outback is a great can, probably one of the best performers when you account for its size, weight and cost. Dont worry about 3db, most ears cant tell a difference....

Blake

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

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Your outback may be working fine, but it is a loud can. Best performers? Hardly.

As stated, the risk of baffle strike is in the sub-sonics, not the HVs.

A drop of 3dB is a huge difference, it is a halving (cutting in half) of the sound heard by your ears. Any set of ears can hear it, except perhaps for the deaf.



Anybody that needs subsonics in a .22 suppressor to be comfortable to shoot with is using a very poor can indeed.

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[slimguns]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

R51, what can would you suggest?

Just guessing......an AWC can? Too predictable.

SS bullets create their own noise which can not be altered by a can. We all know this and it is what it is.

OP, the Outback (as you know) is not the best but is a good can. Be happy and enjoy it.

 

[malaga2]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

Ive owned an Outback II for several years and have literally thousands and thousands of rounds through it...it is a fantastic performer. Look at John Titsworths site, Silencer Research. In his testing this can performs right up there with cans costing twice as much...Ive compared mine to the Prodigy,Pilot, Silencerco Sparrow and the YHM Mite...I rate the Outback better than these although it is a sealed unit. I use it primarily on a bolt CZ452 and it truly is hollywood quiet.
Once you fill up the can..somewhere between 10-15000 rnds send it on back and the guys at Gemtech will replace the baffle stack with a new one for $150...
I was dissapointed with the Mite and sent it to Dave Saylors at Liberty to replace the baffle stack with a monolithic core rather than the slant baffle stack that it came with. Night and day better than before. Your Outback was/is a great purchase...

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

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Too predictable?

Let the man understand why things are the way they are.

Caution him about subs in short barrels with cans. Not enough twist, subs?, some lead won't fly straight.

Explain to him why a cheap can will not do the required job he needs to get done. Explain to him that old school designs, like the Gemtech is just barely "good enough" to be sold cheaply. SS bullets can't be altered by any can, but crap cans can't even handle the muzzle blast. As you shorten the barrel the muzzle blast GETS LOUDER at the blast can. Forget the SS crack suppression, it doesn't matter, didn't matter BEFORE he cut his barrel.

AAC pilot, another relatively inexpensive can BLOWS AWAY the Gemtech. Feel better? AAC's .22 makes the Gemtech look like crap. AWC's can? Same damn thing, an Archangel is twice the price and sounds it. Time to get real, you get what you pay for with a Gemtech Outback.

Man's issue is with a pistol...not a rifle. A pistol with a pistol now with a cut back 4" barrel. Dealing with Super Sonic noise? Nope, not even with can boost. Ain't happening.

Here is my data:
Remington Golden Bullets 525 Bulk pack. Stated velocity: 1280fps (IN A RIFLE!)
Federal 550 round Value pack. Stated velocity: 1260fps (IN A RIFLE).

Shot from:
Ruger MKII 5.5" bbl
Ruger MKIII 22/45 4" bbl

Remington:

5.5"...........4"
1040..........1019
1051..........1010
1096..........1011
1120..........987
1086..........1011
1110..........1013
1115..........1047
1132..........1013
1079..........1032
1083..........1028

Avg
1091..........1017
Spread
92..............60


Federal:
5.5"...........4"
1088..........1040
1166..........1013
1150..........1054
1148..........1047
1142..........1043
1140..........1083
1148..........1072
1145..........1059
1105..........1100
1112..........1017

Avg
1134..........1053
Spread
78.............87

Conclusion:
With typical high velocity bulk ammo and a 5.5" bbl, you will mostly be subsonic but depending on temperature, you will be pretty close to, if not above the speed of sound occasionally N(Trans-Sonic). With a 4" bbl it is safe to assume you will be subsonic every shot.

 

[glocker17]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

So whats the beef here? You like a Pilot, but Outback is no good. Sorry, but they offer almost identical performance. They are also of almost identical design, and same strret price. I think there is more afoot here. If you dont like Gemtech thats fine, but you arguement doesnt really hold water.

FYI Subsonic 22 ammo will have no increase in baffle strikes, it is used by most of us with suppressed rifles. It is required unless you have an integral barrel that is ported to bleed off speed of HV ammo. That method works as well.

How many 22's can have you used/owned?

 

[malaga2]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

Ill add that Ive used my Outback on a 3.5" P22, 4" Buckmark and 4" Ruger and subs are just fine. Never an issue...bulk ammo also no issue. HV will sound different but still fine...

Absolutly disagree on the Pilot blowing away the Outback...Ive shot both on seperate P22s..one in the left hand and one in the right...you would need bionic hearing to tell the difference...

 

[TN-MadDog]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

I have been running an Outback II for about four years. I use it with a 10-22, a Kuehl 22 conversion on an AR and a Mark II. I have had no problems with it and it is <span style="font-style: italic">very</span> quiet. I have heard plenty of other 22 suppressors and it compares well.

Shooting ammo that is super sonic is going to be loud no matter what suppressor you are using. No suppressor can eliminate the super sonic "crack".

 

[Cixelsyd]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

Another Outback II shooter with several years of subs, bulk pack, and hi-vel ammo through it. Host guns have been a 20" CZ452, 4.5" 22/45, 5" Contender, and 20"-16"-5" barreled Kuehl conversions.

The supersonic crack is noticeable (but not at all painful without ears on)with some combinations of ammo/barrels. Never had a baffle strike with subs and frankly don't worry about it.

Someone in this thread has some sort of agenda and is working it pretty hard, MikeSr.

CHRIS

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: FYI...OUTBACK ...22 Suppressor

"When I first fired my Outback I was depressed at the loudness. I was using Hi-velocity ammo and the sound did not sound suppressed. What the heck was I gonna do with 2-five gallon buckets of Hi Vel .22 ammo that I had been collecting over the last few decades....??? "

Beltloop, according to many, your Outback was always just fine and real top performer and I have an agenda in agreeing with you and explaining to you why what you heard....is what you'll hear when you screw an Outback on a 5" barrel.

Your now in good hands, best of luck!

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