The winners aren't typically the ones who game the most. I see the most gaming in the upper mid-pack. Guys doing it long enough to know the tricks, but who haven't yet broken through that barrier that comes with practice/experience/skill.
The winners aren't typically the ones who game the most. I see the most gaming in the upper mid-pack. Guys doing it long enough to know the tricks, but who haven't yet broken through that barrier that comes with practice/experience/skill.
The funny part is Dave is a great shooter and was cleaning stages with a solo sac for years. Ever see him run a plate to win matches in the past?
Practice is what makes you better. Not gear.
Practice is what makes you better. Not gear.
The interesting thing is Dave is one of the excellent shooters that is mostly a minimalist. As you state, he usually just uses one bag to tackle stages. It's a style that I admire.
Will be interesting to see how much he uses his plate during matches. I feel like it's targeted more towards the middle pack crowd that tries to buy points, but probably wouldn't be good business to not promote his own products by not using them. Just doesn't seem like his style to use a "gamer plate" from what I've seen, but what do I know.
It does seem look good quality gear, looks nicely machined. But certainly seems like more of a niche product. I wish him well in his business venture, but I'm done buying niche products.
......
I think his first two plates were designed to be used on a tripod as a place to mount multiple optics (for instance spotter/binos + LRF) and also double as a tac table. The ability to mount the plates as a front bag rider seemed like a more of a bonus than anything else. The two original plates are really too wide to be useful in a lot of situations when mounted to a rifle.
I was under the impression Dave designed the mini plate in response to guys asking him for a smaller version that would actually be a better fit for use on a gun. I don't think he set out to design what's essentially an ARCA/RRS compatible front bag rider for PRS, he's just responding to customer requests and working to meet a demand for something some people want to buy.
I think his first two plates were designed to be used on a tripod as a place to mount multiple optics (for instance spotter/binos + LRF) and also double as a tac table. The ability to mount the plates as a front bag rider seemed like a more of a bonus than anything else. The two original plates are really too wide to be useful in a lot of situations when mounted to a rifle.
I was under the impression Dave designed the mini plate in response to guys asking him for a smaller version that would actually be a better fit for use on a gun. I don't think he set out to design what's essentially an ARCA/RRS compatible front bag rider for PRS, he's just responding to customer requests and working to meet a demand for something some people want to buy.
That makes sense, and I kind of figured as much. All of his early advertising for the original plate was for tripod use.
Ok, I need someone with a plate to figure out a way to:
Attach a ball head to it. Plate on bottom. Arca clamp on top. Basically, replace the tripod with plate.
Put rubber or grip tape on bottom of plate.
Take it to a match where there is a railroad tie stage with the ties at and angle.
Sit plate down on the tie, use ball head to level the rifle out.
FB live stream everyone’s head exploding.
Attach a ball head to it. Plate on bottom. Arca clamp on top. Basically, replace the tripod with plate.
Put rubber or grip tape on bottom of plate.
Take it to a match where there is a railroad tie stage with the ties at and angle.
Sit plate down on the tie, use ball head to level the rifle out.
FB live stream everyone’s head exploding.
Exactly. The problem is too many people (in all walks of life, not just this sport) want the quick and easy way, even if it means throwing money at it. They don't want to put in the time and effort to get to the top of the heap - and it takes a *LOT* of time and effort.
I also need someone to attach one of thes to an arca clamp.
It’s for shooting off pegs.
It’s for shooting off pegs.
Shooting off of pegs?
The people complaining about all the new gadgets that are introduced, should be complaining about all the silly stuff that is introduced in matches to shoot off of.
Coming to a PRS match near you...
The people complaining about all the new gadgets that are introduced, should be complaining about all the silly stuff that is introduced in matches to shoot off of.
Coming to a PRS match near you...
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What if a match director banned gamer plates, and someone showed up with a rifle stock similar to this...
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Also banned if that’s the case.
This is why, IMO, either PRS type matches should either have “practical” limits or “practical class.”
If you can’t make a case for it being carried around and used by a mil/le team, it has no place in this game. As this game’s intent was based off that.
Who decides what is "Practical", if you use the litmus test that it was used by Mil/LE, then there should be no argument about using a tripods, Tac Tables, etc.
What about "Practical" shooting positions, props, stages, etc. I've seen things that go way beyond practical, realistic, or even sensible, like shooting off of a plastic drum half-full of water, and you have to roll it to three different positions to shoot off of. Or having your rifle supported by a hangman's noose.
What about Tank Traps? The only Tank Traps I've ever seen are huge, and were on the Beaches of Normandy, and I don't recall them ever being used since. Maybe there are some on the border between North and South Korea?
What about "Practical" shooting positions, props, stages, etc. I've seen things that go way beyond practical, realistic, or even sensible, like shooting off of a plastic drum half-full of water, and you have to roll it to three different positions to shoot off of. Or having your rifle supported by a hangman's noose.
What about Tank Traps? The only Tank Traps I've ever seen are huge, and were on the Beaches of Normandy, and I don't recall them ever being used since. Maybe there are some on the border between North and South Korea?
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You’re just being ridiculous for the sake of being stupid.
Unless you have time to set up quite a bit ahead of time, when on the job you don’t have a chance to set up a tripod.
Shots have been taken in the real world off drums, fences, toilets, door knobs, etc etc.
Your knowledge of mil/le applications is zero. Might want to sit this one out.
Vehicle barrier on southern border.
Tank traps are still out there in various shapes and sizes.
Tank traps are still out there in various shapes and sizes.
Now that he’s releasing a mini gamer plate, to be honest, you might seem some mil/le guys who toss that in their pack.
Some people don't like tough questions, or anything that goes against what they believe. I asked a simple question as to who decides what is "Practical", so why don't you elaborate on what you believe is "Practical"? You mentioned Mil/LE, so I mentioned Tripods, and suddenly it's ridiculous, and I'm being stupid to suggest it.
I agree, lots of things have been used to shoot off of like a door knob, but the person who shot off that object had a choice. No one in the operation presented any rules saying that was the only object, out of the many available the shooter had to shoot off of.
You don't know me, and have no clue to what my experiences are, or the knowledge I have. So your opinion is just that, a weak opinion.
I don’t need to “know” you when you make statements like you did. You gave several examples of how you have no clue what you may encounter in a work scenario.
Figuring out what is “practical” is extremely easy. Show me a mil/le agency that humps it around for use in a dynamic situation.
Or a hunter. Same principle. Not humping around a ton of shit.
You wont find a rifle that weighs more than 22 or so pounds and likely not wider than 2.5” forearm.
Never said tripods weren’t allowed. Certain stages should allow them. Stages that are designed to mimic when you would set them up in a real world scenario. Be it work or hunting.
Tripods don’t work or don’t have time to be set up at all times when hunting or working.
This stuff is extremely simple. Again, you’re being stupid for the sake of arguing.
I shoot multiple team matches every year, my loadout for these matches is a Precision AR, configured much like a Mk12 SPR (Sub 10-lbs), a Tripod with Hog Saddle and Shooting Platform (Sub 5-lbs), and a small pack with extra ammo, binoculars, range finder, water, etc. (~20-lbs). A very light load compared to military field operations.
I carry my Tripod, adjusted to make it easy to shoot kneeling. One match in particular, my partner and I shot off of my Tripod probably 80% for every target engagement because of the rough, varying terrain that has a lot of high angle engagements, rocks, vegetation, tree's, etc. We didn't use the Tripod on easy stages where the targets we're visible prone or shooting off of rocks. I remember only making one adjustment to the Tripod out of the 20 or so stages we shot those three days. So, tell me again how a tripod is not practical, or needing to adjust it?
Let me reiterate, no one is out there in a Hunting senerio, a Combat operation, or a LE environment and telling the guy behind the trigger he cannot use X-device because someone else says it's not Practical.
Hunting, Combat, Competition, etc. presents a set of problems, and it's up to the shooter to come up with a solution to solve the problem(s), without someone else's sense of practicality.
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They are up just not fully. I’m waiting on materials to come in before the full release. Go to >products>shop and you will see it there.Still waiting patiently for this to pop up on the site.
I was needing something like an rrs cinema rail for my bino/ranger. With shipping it was damn close to buy the dual dovetail gamer plate that was in the PX. So I got it.
It’s main use will be for spotting. I stuck it on the rifle for shits and giggles and it absolutely does kill a ton of lateral movement.
Obviously part of me likes anything that means more impacts. The other part says there are limits to the game to keep it challenging.
Would be curious to see if requiring them be installed on the clock makes any difference. But then there are bags on arca clamps now and you’d have to restrict those as well. Opens up a rabbit hole.
It is lightweight and surprisingly compact. I could see a use for mil/le keeping it in pack and using it for lp/op post or for added stability if in a position where you had to say, drop a fortune cookie back on top of s fencepost to take a shot.
Here’s a pic of it for size reference. All I’m waiting on now is the terrapin x to get here.
It’s main use will be for spotting. I stuck it on the rifle for shits and giggles and it absolutely does kill a ton of lateral movement.
Obviously part of me likes anything that means more impacts. The other part says there are limits to the game to keep it challenging.
Would be curious to see if requiring them be installed on the clock makes any difference. But then there are bags on arca clamps now and you’d have to restrict those as well. Opens up a rabbit hole.
It is lightweight and surprisingly compact. I could see a use for mil/le keeping it in pack and using it for lp/op post or for added stability if in a position where you had to say, drop a fortune cookie back on top of s fencepost to take a shot.
Here’s a pic of it for size reference. All I’m waiting on now is the terrapin x to get here.
That's an interesting looking little riser rig on the empty clamp for your LRF. Did you cobble that together or buy it as is?
It’s a 1/4” coupling between a plate and an RRS micro ballhead. Picked up a pack from amazon. But I’m sure lows or Home Depot have them. The ones made for 1/4” threaded rod are even longer I believe.
Temporary fix until the rrs bottom plate gets here.
But, it raised it up more than I expected. So, depending on how the terrapin fits, it might end up a permanent fixture.
I'd actually like to be able to lift my ConX LRF up similar to that. I hadn't really thought about just using a coupler and some all thread (or a cut-off bolt) for it before. Guess I will be stopping by Lowes on the way home today.
I will likely not use the plate on stages. It definitely works as intended. But it’s a bit too stable if that makes sense.
I’m not a good enough marksman at this point that I need to be using it over working on my fundamentals.
i'm in the same boat. i tried the new mini plate. and it was...awesome. super stable.
but i feel like i would be cheating myself. i couldn't get myself to buy it - regardless of the fact i know it would get me a few more hits probably.
but what's weird is - i had no problem running the area 419 rail changer which is the same concept really. as far as clamping function with a bag underneath.
granted - i also sold that because it wasn't as solid as my full size GC
my goal is to just practice practice practice and get good with just the GC. i feel goofy with the plate.
but damn do they work
It is odd that no one lost their minds when companies started putting arca clamps on bags.
In the end, the real point of any kind of shooting (even in a hunting/LE scenario) is to put rounds on target. So anything innovative that improves this should be welcomed and given a chance.
That said, there’s a reason why aluminum or corked bats aren’t allowed in the MlB. You need to keep some human error involved to keep it fun.
Our Recon bags with the arca base are really designed just for this. They allow you to drive your rifle on just about any obstacle. It's not a huge contraption that the rifle just sits on so you do have to apply some fundamentals but isn't that what the whole point of this is? To become a better shooter and have fun shooting? I think the industry has lost it's way in trading fundamentals for unrealistically huge pillow bags and silly rifle get-ups that can just balance a tiny caliber rifle on target. I don't find that kind of shooting appealing or fun at all. Not at all hating on anyone that does but I want to see a day when 8LB bags and huge contraptions are seen as a weakness and not an advantage.
Haha - common man.
"Our Recon bags with the acra base are really designed just for this.... Its not a huge contraption"...
Your plate is virtually identical to the gamer plates being discussed in this thread, except you also strap a bag to it.
I hope you sell a ton of them, but lets call a spade a spade
"Our Recon bags with the acra base are really designed just for this.... Its not a huge contraption"...
Your plate is virtually identical to the gamer plates being discussed in this thread, except you also strap a bag to it.
I hope you sell a ton of them, but lets call a spade a spade
Not even close brother. Have you seen our product? You may have shot right next to one and not even known it. The other one being discussed can be seen from the other end of the range.Haha - common man.
"Our Recon bags with the acra base are really designed just for this.... Its not a huge contraption"...
Your plate is virtually identical to the gamer plates being discussed in this thread, except you also strap a bag to it.
I hope you sell a ton of them, but lets call a spade a spade
You obviously have no idea what ours is so please don’t tell me what we make when you have never even seen it. If you think a 4”x6” x3” bag with a 3.5”x5” mount is a huge contraption you may need to get out more. Things have changed a lot out there.
Is this your idea of huge contraption?
You just said that you had never seen a “gamer plate” until a recent match and now you are an expert and spouting that the mount we make that you have never seen is the exact same thing. We busted ass to come up with a compact arca mounted bag that is in line with more traditional shooting and is NOT a huge contraption. So excuse my being blunt when I say how about don’t run your mouth about our products when you are clearly clueless as to what they actually are.
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Right - my post me obviously pontificating as an expert... you guys crack me up.
Carbon fiber looks like it would be light while still stiff if you're not into the whole 30 pound gun thing. 3.5x5 mount is for serious shooters, 4.5x6.75 is for gamers!
Again - hope you sell a lot of 'em.
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Different look, same concept. Make the footprint of the gun wider.
Might not be as pronounced as the gray ops plate, but there zero chance you didn’t design yours to widen the footprint and create more stability. Otherwise you’d have just stuck and arca clamp on your bag. Regardless of how compact you attempted to make it.
I’m sure it’s a good product as most are. But it’s definitely in the same realm of concept.
Don’t tell me there is zero chance of why I did something because you have no clue. There are a few guys here that can tell you that I have been working for months to get an arca clamp on a bag effectively. The issue is when you stick an arca clamp onto a bag it makes the bag not work as well as it does without a clamp because it lifts the rifle off of the bag and creates a pivot. The bottom of my chassis is about 2” wide and sinking that into our Recon bags was very stable. But when I add the clamp on the bag it greatly reduced the flat contact area between the chassis and the bag. This is my answer to that. So you may think you have everything figured out but you really don’t.
I originally worked on sewing a piece of kydex with a clamp into the top of the bag. That was too time consuming and not practical to produce. Then I put the kydex inside the bag, works ok but still very tedious to get right and then you can’t use the bag in other ways because it has a hard piece of kydex and a clamp stuck to it. I tried a lot of different things and when I decided to put the clamp directly on the kydex and keep the bag and the base as separate pieces it started to make sense. I transitioned to CF for more rigidity and because kydex feels a bit cheap used in that way.
It funny to hear guys come in and tell me why I did something when I have spent months of late nights working on this to end up here.
Again, you are running your mouth and have no idea what you are talking about. I have made quite a few of these in testing and yes, there is a big difference in those two sizes. One is almost 100% bigger than the other. Multiply those numbers and tell me what the difference in total surface are is. I’ll help you.... one of them is 30sq inches and the other is 17sq inches. Not to mention ours is a base that is designed to hold a bag that is 1/4 the size of the bags typically used.Right - my post me obviously pontificating as an expert... you guys crack me up.
Carbon fiber looks like it would be light while still stiff if you're not into the whole 30 pound gun thing. 3.5x5 mount is for serious shooters, 4.5x6.75 is for gamers!
Again - hope you sell a lot of 'em.
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Someone made a post and then deleted it saying I was not smart for calling potential customers silly for the gear used. That’s not what I said and don’t want it to come off that way. I said the INDUSTRY has lost its way in in designing gear that trades contraptions for fundamentals. The industry is not the shooters, it’s the entities that are designing the gear. The new mantra is stability at all costs, even if that means just balancing a rifle on something and not controlling it at all. That’s benchrest not tactical shooting. As a few people have stated here, they feel a bit embarrassed when attaching some of this stuff to their gun. But they are doing it anyway to try to not be at a disadvantage. I’m not calling them silly I am giving them an out. I’m not in this to make money. I have a company that makes good money. I am in this because I think it’s fun and enjoy shooting and I’m not going to sugarcoat my point of view to try to sell more stuff. I have worked on some set ups that would be considered “gaming”. I don’t release them because that’s not who we are.
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It's humorous to see all the people here use the term Gamer or Gaming in a derogatory way, yet, they them selves are Gaming every time they shoot a Precision Rifle match. Yes, they Game it by using a Bipod, a Bag, a Sling, etc. If the target is at a high angle, and their bipod cannot adjust far enough to create a stable position, they slide their pack under the bipod feet to create that stable position in order to successfully engage the target, and what they did there was Gaming. Gaming in other words is being innovative. People don't like other people being innovative, either because they didn't think of it first, or they are set in their ways, and think it should only be done their way.
The other day I was working on my truck, instead of digging though the tool box for that ever so illusive 10mm open end wrench, I Gamed it by grabbing the Crescent Wrench to tighten the bolt. Mission accomplished by Gaming it!
The other day I was working on my truck, instead of digging though the tool box for that ever so illusive 10mm open end wrench, I Gamed it by grabbing the Crescent Wrench to tighten the bolt. Mission accomplished by Gaming it!
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Bad example. Everyday work vs a game.
Explain my example away since it’s a game vs a game.
Why doesn’t the MLB allow the aluminum bat that was innovated decades ago?
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Because pitchers would die
That’s my ND reference
??
Colleges have also talked about adopting wood to make it safer for pitchers.. super studs in the MLB with aluminum could indeed be just enough faster to take out a few pitches - sorry for the side track..
Your original post was clear.. I just went on a tangent
Just gonna leave this here. Something to think about. I’m all for innovation and when it comes to hunting or the batrlefield, use it all. But as far as comps go:
D-
You need to be more realistic- they should be no restrictions on shooting sports.. look at all the stuff in benchrest.... wait - holly shit they even have weight restrictions
Never mind my bad—
Not sure why some in PR, think restrictions are a bad idea..
You need to be more realistic- they should be no restrictions on shooting sports.. look at all the stuff in benchrest.... wait - holly shit they even have weight restrictions
Never mind my bad—
Not sure why some in PR, think restrictions are a bad idea..
But the COF for matches spells our additional rules. See attached for an example of the bag restrictions
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Currently, it’s basically anything goes unless the stage description or MD’s rules say otherwise.
But this game is still in its infancy and combined with all the innovations, rules will likely need to be adapted.
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