Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

[turbo54]

I've got a stainless MkII in .22LR. Out of the box, it would shoot about 2" @ 100 yards regardless of ammo. I've tried dozens of different types. Honestly, I've seen little difference from one kind to the other "on average". Some of the cheaper stuff will have a couple more fliers, but the meat and potatoes of the "group" is generally about the same - 2" or so.

I put the rifle into a Boyds tacticool stock, but in doing so, I installed pillars, and bedded the action with Devcon 10110, all the way down the action, and the first 1" of the barrel. The stock is generously full-floated.

None of this seemed to improve the performance of the rifle.

I was considering installing some "escutcheon" screws in the forearm to attempt to tune the barrel.

Any thoughts?

I am capable of single-hole groups with my centerfire rifles, and am aware of the importance of excellent trigger control and follow through with a 22. What I'm saying is I'm confident the lack of performance is not my fault - at least not all of it!

 

[GotCox]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

Sounds like you need to have a gun smith take a look at the barrel. If the crown is bad or if the bore is poor, nothing you do to the rest of the rifle will make up for the barrel. But as discussed in another thread here 1" at 100 yards for a 22lr consistently is hard to achieve. Yes people can cherry pick a target out of a day of shooting that has a sub 1" group, but it is not the norm.

If you really want to get the biggest difference in group your gonna have to pony up for some of the $20 a box match grade ammo. The type the BR guys are using. Elay black box, team what ever you can find.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

I've tried a BUNCH of the $$$ ammo in this rifle, both before and after the new stock/bedding.

I've tried 4 or 5 different Lapua's, 2 or 3 different Eley's, Eley-primed Aguila and Remington, Federal match, Wolf Match, RWS Match etc etc...

Might have to investigate the barrel.

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

It really sounds like the barrel based on your ammo selections.

 

[GotCox]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've tried a BUNCH of the $$$ ammo in this rifle, both before and after the new stock/bedding.

I've tried 4 or 5 different Lapua's, 2 or 3 different Eley's, Eley-primed Aguila and Remington, Federal match, Wolf Match, RWS Match etc etc...

Might have to investigate the barrel. </div></div>

Ya if you have already tried the match grades and are not satisfied i would say have someone take a look at the crown and barrel. Good luck and i hope you get that gun shooting where it makes you smile.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

I don't think 2" at 100yd is all that bad. It corresponds to 1" at 50yd, and most folks would be happy with that at 50yd. I also think that the Savage MKII barrelled action's inletting/support is pretty good just as it comes from the factory.

Folks marvel at rimfire accuracy, but in truth, most of the groups are so small because they are fired a lot closer to begin with. A 2MOA .22LR is a pretty good shooting .22LR.

1" at 50yd is 2MOA.

Unless you are trying to win a Rimfire BR match, your MKII is doing its part quite admirably. For a trainer, your accurizing is done; now put that sucker to work.

My experience with the MKII suggests strongly that ammo is a crucial accuracy factor, and the CCI blue box Standard Velocity Target works very well in my MKII-F. It mimics FGMM pretty much interchangeably for me, but the price is better.

Other factors include crown integrity, and lead buildup in the very forward end of the chamber.

These factors affect any .22LR, and I periodically do a diligent chamber lead removal regimen. Shooters' Choice Lead Remover Solvent is good for this, and I used to borrow a friend's chamber reamer to chase out any stubbornly residual lead deposits from my rimfire chambers.

Going beyond these steps puts one out into unknown territory. It may help, it may not; and attempting steps which cannot be reversed is something to be thought on long and hard before doing.

Neoprene foam (Craft store Foamies) can be placed between barrel and stock at the forward end of the barrel channel to see if barrel pressure fixtures have any potential. This is reversible.

Spacers can be placed between action and stock where the action screw(s) pass through. This can jack the action out of barrel contact with the stock, and test whether barrel float has any potential. This is reversible.

Lengths of solder wire can be length adjusted and wrapped/taped around the muzzle to determine of harmonic barrel tuning has potential. This is reversible.

Stock ergonomics are important.

LOP can be modified longer by trying a Limbsaver recoil pad. It can be augmented with pieces of mousepad between buttpad and Limbsaver. This is reversible.

Cheekweld height can be adjusted using pieces of mousepad and masking tape. This is reversible.

Once any of these techniques proves helpful; they can be tuned further, and then made permanent with more suitible means.

Greg

 

[turbo54]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

Greg,

I was afraid this might be the case. Honestly, I have to question the value (as a "trainer")of a 22LR based on it's 2 moa performance. I can generally "feel" if a shot was taken well, but with 2 moa, I get no valuable feedback on whether or not I executed my shot perfectly.

I have considered switching to 17HMR, which I know is considerably more accurate than 22LR, but at $9-10 for 50 rounds it's almost in .223 territory....and .223 can do a lot more than a 17hmr.

 

[ivanthesane]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

Playing iwth the amount of torque on the action screws can change accuracy. If you think a new barrel is the cure, there are a few "how I did its" on rimfirecentral for putting a 10/22 or 77/22 barrel on a savage action. Also, you may want to call Scott at savagegunsmithing.com and pick his brain

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

Well; I can understand your reasoning, I just reason differently.

For me, the targets a trainer produce are more about how <span style="font-style: italic">I'm</span> shooting on a given day, and less about how the rifle is shooting.

Be it 2MOA, 1MOA o 1/2MOA, if I'm shooting to the rifle's potential, that will become quickly apparent, as will any failings on my part. It's not group size that counts, it's the <span style="font-style: italic">consistency</span> of groups size that counts, and how my perfomance alters that. I don't need them all going through the same hole to know that.

Shooting small groups is not crucial to my training; IMHO, shooting the same or smaller (larger?) groups is. By that criterion, it's the consistency the rifle delivers, and not the raw group size, that's of value to me. Rather than expending money and concern in the search of outstanding accuracy, I'd rather invest that stuff into making <span style="font-style: italic">my</span> performance better. If what I do works, the small groups come from the primary rifle, and its bore life and ammunition costs are not expended on honing the skills that make that possible.

Seriously, if better than 2MOA at 100yd is your goal, you're looking more at the things that interest a BR shooterm, than what I call practical shooting. I prefer to be the latter.

My idea of a good marksman is someonee who can wring out a rifle's potential, whatever that may be, or be able to give a good indication of why a particular rifle isn't performing to potential.

Your reasoning re: .223 vs .17 exactly parallels my own. If I want to do that stuff, the .223 can do it at least as well, and many more things, too.

Actually, my favorite for that niche is the .222; the .223 gets reserved for an AR, which is likely my next purchase. Looking at a Stag A4 Stainless 24" varmint. My local FFL sells a lot of them and it's his AR as well.

Greg

 

[Nickoglock2]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

opps

 

[Nickoglock2]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

Do you have the stock bottom metal? My Savage MKII groups had major improvment with a DIP bottom metal, and I have the tacticool stock as well not bedded though. If you have a stock bottom metal I would try a thick one, so you can tighten the action screws without breaking the stock.
Also try the trigger job over at rimfire central, It helped me a lot too.

 

[Nickoglock2]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

Do you have the stock bottom metal? My Savage MKII groups had major improvment with a DIP bottom metal, and I have the tacticool stock as well not bedded though. If you have a stock bottom metal I would try a thick one, so you can tighten the action screws without breaking the stock.
Also try the trigger job over at rimfire central, It helped me a lot too.

 

[Nickoglock2]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

Do you have the stock bottom metal? My Savage MKII groups had major improvment with a DIP bottom metal, and I have the tacticool stock as well not bedded though. If you have a stock bottom metal I would try a thick one, so you can tighten the action screws without breaking the stock.
Also try the trigger job over at rimfire central, It helped me a lot too.

 

[JWV]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

Hey Turbo, if you consider the 17, get the HM2. I have the MKII and just put a tacticool stock on it, it would shoot .9 to 1.0 MOA at 100 with the Tupperware and the ammo is significantly cheaper than the HMR ammo. I believe your rifle has more accuracy available. Personally, I would have a smith check out the chamber and crown. These are Anshultz blanks and these Savages have some incredible accuracy potential. PS. We are shooting near Ludington sometime in the later part of this month at approx 665 yards if you are interested.

My .02

 

[callen3615]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

I just did a trigger job on mine.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1588046#Post1588046

I trimmed 15% off the trigger spring and shimmed the entire trigger assembly to shorten pull. Now there is no trigger creep and its probably around 4lbs.

I like the trigger much better but my groups did not improve much. Maybe overall but my better groups are still around 1/2-5/8 at 50 yrds.

I shot 2 squirrels with it today, one a 60 yds left handed and one at 100 (dial up .6mils).

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

I don't find 1" @ 50 yards to be very enjoyable accuracy limitations. Keep working; probably the crown is the problem.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

Not trying to be smart Turbo..honestly. I have seen a couple pretty accurate Savage MKII come through the line at our TSC match but none have ever made much showing in the monthly match reports. Now I know the shooter is the ultimate standard by which any rifle is measured but some of the guys that shoot with us are pretty damn good. There are fewer and fewer Savages being fielded at our match.
I have said before and will say again, when I was a kid I would have been hell on wheels with a Savage MKII and some good glass in the squirrel woods but they have been hyped far beyond legendary status. Admittedly I have rubbed a few around here the wrong way over a Savage maiinly because I hold my loyalty to repeatable results and not brand affiliation.
The rifle wouldn't shoot, and lets face it 2" at 100yd means "won't shoot". Hell I have owned pistols that shot better than 2" at 100yd. I am an IHMSA shooter so you can be sure that is no BS, fifth scale animals are very small. Oh I know its good enough for most 22 work but you were expecting more. You were expecting more because you had heard of more, that doesn't exactly make you Oliver Twist...hell you were promised more. You have done all within reason that I can see to make this gun shoot. Why should you need a new crown? Can't Savage crown a barrel? Personally I would be done with this one. Put it back together and find a Savage fanboy that can see the accurate rifle inside that is just screaming to get out. Or keep it and shoot tree rats with it or tote it on the trapline.
If you get time read through the match reports at Conover. There is some great insight into the most accurate 22 rimfire rifles.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2390014#Post2390014
I know that is not much help but I simply think you have already gone beyond reasonable expectations. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[ta2dtrent]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

I have heard of people having problems with the barrels not being straight or not being mounted to the actions correctly. Maybe send it in to Savage and have them take a look at it for you.

 

[drewsshootingsports]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

I have to go with the crowd on this one - likely a barrel issue of some sort. Have you taken any good sets at 50 yards? That may help some of us out a bit more.

I have one of the first accu-trigger MKII-BV rifles, and it still shoots 1/2 MOA or better at 50 yards (I don't shoot at any other distance with it, really) with SK Standard or Wolf (same thing).

You may have a problem.

 

[gjantzer]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

If you have not played with the torque on the action screws and you are way over due!!! The torque on the action screws will have dramatic changes in almost all rimfires. One of the biggest problems with the Savages is that the bottom metal is so thin that the torque on the action screws will start to deflect (or bend) the bottom metal before you can reach a high enough torque to fall in the sweet spot range of the rifle. Buying new bottom metal on a savage is a must!

Float Barrel
New Bottom Metal
Dial in Torque on Action Screws
Then Find an Ammo your gun likes

I'll 2nd the comment of Savage losing the accuracy battle as of late.

 

[cab0154]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

my mkII FVT would barely hold MOA @ 25y no matter what i did. i guess you could have one rechambered and crowned, but aside from that, trying free floating and different barrel pressure points and bedding that might just be all it has.

 

[eyehunter92]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

I have a Savage TRR-SR .22LR. With the thread protector off it will shoot .262 and .275" best two 5 shot groups at 50yds. It will shoot most ammo to .5" @50yds. Ammo is Gemtech 42 gr Subsonic Chronographed at 1045 fps. Suppressed, you can here the firing pin drop and bullet impact the target. I will be bedding the action b/c it will sometimes shoot larger groups.

 

[Jeremybj]

Re: Got some accurizing tips for my Savage MkII?

I have a Savage Mark 2 that is bedded, I can shoot sub 1" at 100 yards all day with CCI Mini mags, so the rifles are easily capable of that.

I heard of another guy that had terrible luck with his Mark 2. He called up Savage, they took it in, fixed it, and sent it back all free of charge. Savage told him it was a problem with the barrel.

Call up Savage, they are a great company to work with. They will work with you.