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Hand loading 6mm creedmoor

Lasor1

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
May 4, 2017
22
2
Tri cities Tn
Hey there
I am fixing to start reloading 6mm creedmoor. I haven't found much info on like max and min length of the case.
what kind of dies people are liking for this cartridge. Should case be crimped or not Powder bullets only info I found is hornady PDF load data for 108 eld match bullets. Are there some books I can buy on this particular cartridge. I am sorry if this has been posted before I'm newbie here. I just want to load some good target loads out too 500 yards that's max distance I currently can shoot for now put most likely be shooting 200 to 300 yards at gun range Thanks for your time and opinions.
 
Here's what I have been running:

6mm Creedmoor
24" Bartlein 1:8 twist, .183 freebore
Berger 105 Hybrids
Hornady Brass
CCI BR-2 primers
42.2 grains H4350 powder

Trim length of brass1.915
OAL 2.215 base to ogive

I'm getting 3060 fps, ES 18, SD 7.8

Tomorrow I am going to do some ladder testing with Alpha Munitions brass and Lapua brass, both necked down to 6mm.


 
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If you understand how burn rates work I would highly encourage you to look at slower powders. I try to stay away from h4350 at all costs. It kills barrels because of how fast it burns. Look at a burn rate chart and slowly make your way down it. You can get some really nice speed out of a 6mm creedmoor with a slow powder.

My 6 Creedmoor load is:

Lapua formed .308 palma case
Nosler 105 RDF
H1000 @ 47.4 gr (if you want to use h1000 start low this is a compressed load)
CCI 450 Primer

I average 3150 with a typical ES of less that 15.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
My 6 Creedmoor load is:

Lapua formed .308 palma case
Nosler 105 RDF
H1000 @ 47.4 gr (if you want to use h1000 start low this is a compressed load)
CCI 450 Primer

I average 3150 with a typical ES of less that 15.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Can you please state the length of your barrel ?
So we can have a relation of speed to length of barrel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
There are two or three threads in the reloading depot that could help you out... In my rifles, my loads have always been between 41.8 and 42.2 grains of H4350 with 210M primers in Hornady brass pushing 105 Berger hybrids between 3150 and 3200 fps. I do want to play with some H1000 though to see if I can extend barrel life a bit.
 
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There are two or three threads in the reloading depot that could help you out... In my rifles, my loads have always been between 41.8 and 42.2 grains of H4350 with 210M primers in Hornady brass pushing 105 Berger hybrids between 3150 and 3200 fps. I do want to play with some H1000 though to see if I can extend barrel life a bit.

I also want to attempt to use h1000. I know people are finding inadequate velocity but I wouldn't mind finding out for myself.

Addendum 11/30/17: H1000 was too slow in 2 different 6 creed barrels. Will not pursue.
 
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I tried to get decent speeds out of H1000 and could not get enough in there to make any speed. I know another local Mr Fields that abandoned that idea cause speed was not there.
I was running a 24" barrel and speeds were crappy.
I stuck with H4350 and cen get some realistic speeds with this cartridge. But it has also led me to try out the 6SLR. Still Working on load for that currently.


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Barrel life of the 6creed in my opinion will be around 2k if you push them decently. Best I can muster was 3086 with 115DTAC using 42.1 H4350. But it's a tad on the warm side. I brought it back to 3035 with 41.5.

Brass is going on 3firings rotating 400 cases so I have about 1200 on my currently.


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Has anyone tried lapua brass yet ( necking down from 6.5 caliber to 6mm). I am wondering if its as easy as forming 6 x47 brass....stick it in a full length sizer and you are done.
 
Has anyone tried lapua brass yet ( necking down from 6.5 caliber to 6mm). I am wondering if its as easy as forming 6 x47 brass....stick it in a full length sizer and you are done.

I necked down a few Lapua cases and ran a ladder test from 41-43. Found that 42.0 of H4350 was giving me 3030 fps and single digit SD's with great accuracy pushing 105 Berger Hybrids out of my 24" Bartlein. If I didn't have 500 pieces of 1x fired Hornady 6CM I would be using the Lapua brass.
 
Has anyone tried imr 4451 yet? It seems to be in between imr 4350 and h4350. I may pick some up and try it I been too 3 different shops multiple times no h4350 or imr 4350 as well as 4831 the 4350 must be in high demand right now.
 
I will post what I found with H4350.

26" Mark Chanlynn - 6mm Creedmoor barrel (84 rounds as of now)
TBAC CB9 Suppressor
Norma Brass (6.5 Prime necked down) 4th firing
DTAC Coated 115's
Federal 210M
1.920 case length, 2.275 (to lands), 2.837 over all

Found first node after break in:
40.6 @ 2923mv / .005 off the lands (25 rounds down the barrel)

Next node:
41.5 @ 2975mv / .005 of the lands (45 rounds down the barrel)

High node:
42.2 @ 3000mv / .010 of the lands (80 rounds down the barrel)

I have been using 70 cases (63 left) I selected for development and now have 45 at 4x and the rest at 5x. I never annealed the cases and had 3 split necks and a few lose pockets on my last outing. I did find the 42.6 CW had heavy bolt lift and shot the 42.8 just to see the speed (3060mv) so I will anneal from here on out to save the necks which are turned to .0142-.0143 wall thickness.

I will be dropping down to the first node and work on seating depth and maybe stay there for barrel life.
 
Criterion 26" varmint here......I started with H4350 like everybody else and found 42.2 grains with the 107smk to be great like, everyone else ish =/- couple tenths (pick your bullet i guess) 3175fps. I switched to IMR 4451 and found 41.8 to be perfect with about 3150 fps. Then i switched to H1000 with 46.5gr @ 3100 maybe a touch less. I like H1000 the best out of all the powders tested, it gave me the most consistent results downrange and maybe a little more barrel life as im at almost 2800 rounds now. If I was running a shorter barrel im not sure i would use H1000 as I feel the 6mm looses ground quickly to the 6.5mm if you dont use the higher fps to your advantage.
 
Just an FYI - H4350 = 84 rounds = .006 land erosion during break in and development above.

I'm sticking with 40.6 grn CW and loaded new batch last night with seating depth .000, .005, .010, .020, .030 and .040
When the barrel settles that should bring me to around 2,950 muzzle velocity.
 
At 154 rounds down the barrel I decided to do another OCW just above my low node of 40.6. Zeroed my gun at 100y. Cold bore Shot and two follow ups. All touching.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/powerstrokearmy.com\/photopost\/data\/542\/Zero.jpeg"}[/IMG2]

Shot single shots from each CW at different targets to keep track. Two consecutive load increases per target. Final choice is between 40.9 and 41.2. These were shot at 395 yards and elevation is pretty even on both amounts of powder. Edit: 1” group for 5 rounds.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/powerstrokearmy.com\/photopost\/data\/542\/medium\/66CD4930-9B6B-49E4-970A-778F0374FB04.jpeg"}[/IMG2]

I’m loading now to 41.1 since the charge weight lower than these two was far apart and the one above was right above Zero elevation. Now to work on seating depth, testing was .020 off the lands.

I started 0, .005, up to .025 and .02 was the best depth for the above OCW test. I think I will now jump to .03, .04, .05 and see if the group closes up any.
 
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I was in the iPhone and it was driving me crazy!!! I must have edited the post 5 time to show the image, nothing worked.
Also correction 5 shot with one for the wind 5-12mph that morning.
 
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Has anyone tried imr 4451 yet? It seems to be in between imr 4350 and h4350. I may pick some up and try it I been too 3 different shops multiple times no h4350 or imr 4350 as well as 4831 the 4350 must be in high demand right now.

I switched to 4451 enduron because I found it in 8lb and could not locate H4350. In my 6.5 creedmoor my accuracy node is 1 grain more with the enduron over the 4350 to get to the same speed. No pressure signs. Again this is for my 6.5 creedmoor not 6 creedmoor.
 
Hornady, Sierra, and Hodgdon have published load data on this cartridge now. For those trying H1000, you either need a drop tube or learn how to settle powder to get the most in the case. There are better choices than H4350 for brass and barrel longevity.
 
If you understand how burn rates work I would highly encourage you to look at slower powders. I try to stay away from h4350 at all costs. It kills barrels because of how fast it burns. Look at a burn rate chart and slowly make your way down it. You can get some really nice speed out of a 6mm creedmoor with a slow powder.

My 6 Creedmoor load is:

Lapua formed .308 palma case
Nosler 105 RDF
H1000 @ 47.4 gr (if you want to use h1000 start low this is a compressed load)
CCI 450 Primer

I average 3150 with a typical ES of less that 15.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Burn rate and burn heat are different. All slow powders are not cool burning. People specifically use h1000 because it is cool burning.

'Heat of explosion/potential' Kj/Kg
Hodgdon 4198 =>3860
Hodgdon 322 =>4000
Hodgdon 4895 =>4060
Hodgdon 335 =>3980
Hodgdon Varget =>4050
Hodgdon BL-C2 =>3990
Hodgdon 380 =>3970
Hodgdon 414 =>3880
Hodgdon Hy100v =>3545
Hodgdon 4350 =>3760
Hodgdon 4831 =>3870
Hodgdon 4831 SC=>3870
Hodgdon 1000 =>3630
Hodgdon 870 =>3810
Hodgdon US869 =>3700
Hodgdon 50BMG =>4010
 
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26" 1:8 twist .109 FB
lapua 1x brass
105 hornady BTHP .005 into lands
COAL: TBA
cci 450
41.2gr h4350


magnetto speed 3130fps

shoots great. More velocity than I anticipated.
I am still trying to find a decent load, started at 41.1 H4350 & 105 VLD hybrids last night & was getting 3120 MV , going up had ejector swipe & flat primers. last weekend factory 103 eldx were popping primers out back of case. must have a fast barrel at 1-7.5 twist Savage GRS.
 
Gave my son a Ruger RPR Gen2 in 6mm Creedmoor w/ Vortex Viper Gen2 5-25x50 EBR-2C for his 18th birthday this weekend and took him shooting. Loaded up 50rds of 105gr RDF behind 44grs H4381 and Fed 205M primers in Starline SRP brass so he could have something to shoot. He shot 10 groups of 5 and all were 1/2" to 3/4" CTC out of the box at 100yds. Next range trip we will start OCW load development but so far his rifle loves 105gr RDFs.

My Mega Arms 22" Dracos 6mm CM not so much. It stabilized the 105gr RDF even though it is a 9-twist.
 
If you understand how burn rates work I would highly encourage you to look at slower powders. I try to stay away from h4350 at all costs. It kills barrels because of how fast it burns. Look at a burn rate chart and slowly make your way down it. You can get some really nice speed out of a 6mm creedmoor with a slow powder.

My 6 Creedmoor load is:

Lapua formed .308 palma case
Nosler 105 RDF
H1000 @ 47.4 gr (if you want to use h1000 start low this is a compressed load)
CCI 450 Primer

I average 3150 with a typical ES of less that 15.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
how did you form brass from .308 lapua brass?
 
how did you form brass from .308 lapua brass?
I ran the .308 brass through a 7mm-08 die, then a 6.5 creedmoor body die, then a 6.5 creedmoor fl sizing die then a 6mm creedmoor die then i expanded the necks with a K&M Neck Expanding mandrel turned the necks and then fire formed. Its a lot more work than it'll ever be worth especially because Lapua makes the brass.
 
The load data for 107's and 110's doesn't list H1000 as a possible source for a charge. Wondering if there is any load data for those two projectiles using H1000 anywhere?
Not sure if you know how to read QL projections, but here is 115 dtac, heaviest 6mm bullet. The case does not have the capacity to run enough H1K at acceptable pressures, terrible burn rate, low efficiency too. I just used general prameters for the model.
If there was 130gr 6mm bullet, it may be perfect.
Edit: This is banking you could even get 47gr in the case.
Capture4.PNG
 
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Not sure if you know how to read QL projections, but here is 115 dtac, heaviest 6mm bullet. The case does not have the capacity to run enough H1K at acceptable pressures, terrible burn rate, low efficiency too. I just used general prameters for the model.
If there was 130gr 6mm bullet, it may be perfect.
Edit: This is banking you could even get 47gr in the case.
View attachment 6994473
Thanks. I think I'll just go with a faster burning powder. Was trying to select powder to lower burn temp and rate to prolong barrel life. But if it doesn't achieve the velocity necessary, then you are just wasting projectiles anyway, which can add up just as fast as buying a new barrel more frequently.
 
Thanks. I think I'll just go with a faster burning powder. Was trying to select powder to lower burn temp and rate to prolong barrel life. But if it doesn't achieve the velocity necessary, then you are just wasting projectiles anyway, which can add up just as fast as buying a new barrel more frequently.
I hate saying crap like this, but the powders between H4350 and H1K can seem like a dead zone of sorts. Not saying powders in this range wont work, RL 17, VV N550, maybe IMR 4955 and maybe others. I can tell you this, if you want to drop pressure with exceptional speed in 6 creed, try Norma MRP, beware, it is more costly, but almost always available. Good Luck!
 
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When you go to Hodgdon's web site and use their data, they provide quite a few loads with H and IMR powders but they are all for Winchester large rifle primers. How do you factor in the difference if possible when using small rifle primer? I don't see that as a selection when requesting load data.
 
I spoke with G. David Tubb on just this subject once. He had put a lot of work into coming to terms with the small primers. In the end he moved on beyond the small primers. A lot of thinking on small primers is based on his earlier wok, and may not reflect his later work.

As I recall, his conclusion was that the only difference in load development between large and small primers was the powder charge, that the total correct available energy in primer and charge was the same for both approaches, and that once the load development was done correctly, neither large nor small held any significant advantage over the other.

I'm not in his league, but I think he's nailed this one.

Hodgdon's data does not give specific charges for specific barrels/rifles (that I know of), they post charge weight limits, and the shooter has to work out the rest themselves. Be arbitrary, choose one primer over the other and do your development.

One of my primary criteria for selecting components is that they be reliably available, and I offer this one for your consideration. I select brass on availability and this seldom favors small pocket brass.

When selecting powders, I try to find one that offers a very high load density (i.e. the correct powder charge fills most or all of the case capacity) at the preferable charge level.

Another preference I have is for longer barrels; my serious LR Match rifle is a 28" .260 Rem. This allows me to work around the H-4350 availability issues, and brings H-4831 into the realm of possibility.

Greg
 
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I spoke with G. David Tubb on just this subject once. He had put a lot of work into coming to terms with the small primers. In the end he moved on beyond the small primers. A lot of thinking on small primers is based on his earlier wok, and may not reflect his later work.

As I recall, his conclusion was that the only difference in load development between large and small primers was the powder charge, that the total correct available energy in primer and charge was the same for both approaches, and that once the load development was done correctly, neither large nor small held any significant advantage over the other.

I'm not in his league, but I think he's nailed this one.

Hodgdon's data does not give specific charges for specific barrels/rifles (that I know of), they post charge weight limits, and the shooter has to work out the rest themselves. Be arbitrary, choose one primer over the other and do your development.

One of my primary criteria for selecting components is that they be reliably available, and I offer this one for your consideration. I select brass on availability and this seldom favors small pocket brass.

When selecting powders, I try to find one that offers a very high load density (i.e. the correct powder charge fills most or all of the case capacity) at the preferable charge level.

Another preference I have is for longer barrels; my serious LR Match rifle is a 28" .260 Rem. This allows me to work around the H-4350 availability issues, and brings H-4831 into the realm of possibility.

Greg
That's a very interesting story about your conversation with Tubb. I suppose that is correct, add up the energy from the initial explosion of the primer and then the secondary explosion of the powder to achieve a singular total and you want the same from both types of primers and powder combinations to achieve your identical velocities.

Just read an article discussing primers and it suggests primers are the one component in reloading which is most neglected yet really if not the most important, right up there. I don't recall the URL but I'll look for it. The author made a good point. Since it is the initial reaction in the chain, it is likely just as important if not more so.

Here is one of the articles I read showing statistical analysis indicating small rifle primers produce smaller groups. https://rifleshooter.com/2018/05/do...dmoor-small-v-large-primer-brass-comparisons/

Still looking for the other article.
 
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Slowed down 75fps within 50 rounds not much more can be expected when shooting suppressed. Lots more back pressure which I figured shorten the barrel life.

Aaron Roberts then spun up a Bartlien 24” barrel. I’m now shooting with 419 muzzle brake, so I’ll see if I get a longer lasting barrel.
 
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Primers equal ignition, period.

They are often rated on a single characteristic, called brisance meaning, roughly, "sparkiness". They are also categorized by terms like "Magnum", and, of course by size. Precision Shooting (and others, I'm sure), did an article that covered the entire gamut, replete with spectacular looking photography depicting primers in the act of being "sparky". There was a wide range of "sparkiness" observed.

Rifle and pistol primers look interchangeable, but they are not.

The cup thickness is thinner on pistol primers and this requires a caveat, they are designed of pistol pressures, and should not be used where higher (rifle, magnum) pressures are likely. This is a serious safety issue. They are also shallower than a rifle primer, and when seated properly, their contact surface is recessed, and may not allow proper firing pin performance. This is a serious reliability issue.

Rifle and magnum primer also look identical, but again, they are not.

The magnum cups incorporate thicker walls to accommodate magnum pressures (one of the critical factors in designating magnums involves those higher magnum pressures). Some folks use magnum primers in non-magnum applications. I imagine they are expecting performance boost, and to a degree, I suppose they are right. But this does not do anything that a higher powder charge weight will not do, and that charge weight is a lot more adjustable. It will also send a column of ignition flash further into the powder column, which in main part, simply drives the bullet into the rifling further before the main ignition sequence occurs, and I cannot, for the life of me, see what the benefit is in doing that. Use the proper primer for the particular case design and application.

Finally, some folks use a magnum primer because they believe it will give a more positive ignition under deep cold weather conditions.

I suppose it would, but it would also do it at the cost of requiring a complete load development rework, which would also probably only work right if done under those ultra cold conditions. I prefer to employ a Winchester primer, which is configured to work with harder to ignite Winchester ball powders, which have a heavy grain coating and require a more positive ignition source. By using the Winchester primers, one can achieve a load that works well (at least well enough) under both cold and temperate conditions.

Winchester primers come as close as possible to what I would like to term as an all weather primer. They are the primer I employ in applications where ignition failure can have costly consequences; like Military Ball ammo (Garand M-2 Ball), and hunting loads, which may have to down dangerous game during particularly cold conditions.

Match primers are an entire subject on their own.

They are primarily configured to bring greatest consistency to the ignition sequence. There is a lot of conjecture as to what this means and how that can be best achieved. The best performers exhibit a much more "tame" brisance. This has led to the grand exploration of the small primer case. It can be made to work, but how well it accomplishes this goal can often attract an argument. I don't have an answer to that, nor do I have a dog in the fight.

I ignore the issue completely, and go with the more "conventional" methodology.

This posting is largely a compilation from my own faulty memory of the bulk of work that was done in the 90's on this subject. If you disagree with any of it, I'll immediately concede that you could well be right.

Let me be the ogre.

Greg

PS After over 30 years of serious accuracy reloading, I limit my primers to CCI BR and Standard Primers, and Winchester Primers for appropriate applications. This is largely a decision based on local on-the-shelf availability, and not an endorsement.

My load development begins with an arbitrary choice of CCI Standard primers. Once load development is complete, I switch out with CCI BR primers to determine if any significant performance improvement can be gained. Occasionally one can, but it's not definite by any means (mostly because most accuracy nodes are broad enough that the small performance differences between Standard and Match Primers simply cannot be discerned). For me, Match Primers must earn their place on the recipe.

For match applications, I ignore the economics and use Match Primers. I need the better expectation of consistency.
 
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Lyman has a Long Range Precision Reloading guide that includes 6mm CM data along with other popular long range cartridges.
I like it because it focuses on the heavy match type bullets and skips the hunting bullets.
 
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Primers equal ignition, period.

They are often rated on a single characteristic, called brisance meaning, roughly, "sparkiness". They are also categorized by terms like "Magnum", and, of course by size. Precision Shooting (and others, I'm sure), did an article that covered the entire gamut, replete with spectacular looking photography depicting primers in the act of being "sparky". There was a wide range of "sparkiness" observed.

Rifle and pistol primers look interchangeable, but they are not.

The cup thickness is thinner on pistol primers and this requires a caveat, they are designed of pistol pressures, and should not be used where higher (rifle, magnum) pressures are likely. This is a serious safety issue. They are also shallower than a rifle primer, and when seated properly, their contact surface is recessed, and may not allow proper firing pin performance. This is a serious reliability issue.

Rifle and magnum primer also look identical, but again, they are not.

The magnum cups incorporate thicker walls to accommodate magnum pressures (one of the critical factors in designating magnums involves those higher magnum pressures). Some folks use magnum primers in non-magnum applications. I imagine they are expecting performance boost, and to a degree, I suppose they are right. But this does not do anything that a higher powder charge weight will not do, and that charge weight is a lot more adjustable. It will also send a column of ignition flash further into the powder column, which in main part, simply drives the bullet into the rifling further before the main ignition sequence occurs, and I cannot, for the life of me, see what the benefit is in doing that. Use the proper primer for the particular case design and application.

Finally, some folks use a magnum primer because they believe it will give a more positive ignition under deep cold weather conditions.

I suppose it would, but it would also do it at the cost of requiring a complete load development rework, which would also probably only work right if done under those ultra cold conditions. I prefer to employ a Winchester primer, which is configured to work with harder to ignite Winchester ball powders, which have a heavy grain coating and require a more positive ignition source. By using the Winchester primers, one can achieve a load that works well (at least well enough) under both cold and temperate conditions.

Winchester primers come as close as possible to what I would like to term as an all weather primer. They are the primer I employ in applications where ignition failure can have costly consequences; like Military Ball ammo (Garand M-2 Ball), and hunting loads, which may have to down dangerous game during particularly cold conditions.

Match primers are an entire subject on their own.

They are primarily configured to bring greatest consistency to the ignition sequence. There is a lot of conjecture as to what this means and how that can be best achieved. The best performers exhibit a much more "tame" brisance. This has led to the grand exploration of the small primer case. It can be made to work, but how well it accomplishes this goal can often attract an argument. I don't have an answer to that, nor do I have a dog in the fight.

I ignore the issue completely, and go with the more "conventional" methodology.

This posting is largely a compilation from my own faulty memory of the bulk of work that was done in the 90's on this subject. If you disagree with any of it, I'll immediately concede that you could well be right.

Let me be the ogre.

Greg

PS After over 30 years of serious accuracy reloading, I limit my primers to CCI BR and Standard Primers, and Winchester Primers for appropriate applications. This is largely a decision based on local on-the-shelf availability, and not an endorsement.

My load development begins with an arbitrary choice of CCI Standard primers. Once load development is complete, I switch out with CCI BR primers to determine if any significant performance improvement can be gained. Occasionally one can, but it's not definite by any means (mostly because most accuracy nodes are broad enough that the small performance differences between Standard and Match Primers simply cannot be discerned). For me, Match Primers must earn their place on the recipe.

For match applications, I ignore the economics and use Match Primers. I need the better expectation of consistency.

Greg, I know very little about reloading but find the prospect quite interesting and want to pick your fertile brain. I shoot a 6mm Creedmoor RPR and fire exclusively to get shots on paper targets as close together as possible... typical range 300-1000 yards and have to date shot exclusively factory Hornady 108gr ELD Match ammo. I’ve kept about 400 once fired brass from my range visits. I am considering reloading with Hornady 108g ELD Match bullets, CCI Br primers and the appropriate amount of H4350. This may be a ignorant question but what kind of accuracy improvement could one reasonably expect with this hypothetical reload versus the factory Hornady 108gr ELD Match ammunition? Or would you suggest mixing up a different recipe?