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Rifle Scopes HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

anthony_se

anthony_se

Private
Minuteman
Feb 8, 2011
0
0
85
Wyndmoor, PA
For ya all's info: I'm now on my second HDMR, first one gotten from GAP in the group buy. MAJOR chromatic aberration with purple and yellow fringing/discs in the optic, tree limbs, trunks, edges of buildings, horizontal as well as vertical. Called GA and got sent to Bushnell Performance Optics where Steve told me (at the time couple weeks or so ago) that it would be the first week in March before the G2 reticle version would be available to replace it with. He said he had one with the Tremor-2 reticle and I opted for it, paid an additional $140 over the price of the Group Buy.

Got the replacement scope within 3-4 days, don't recall. Mounted it on my FN TSR, propped itup on my dining room table, checked it out under good illumination and it looked beautiful!!! Told that to Steve in an email. Thought I was GTG. NOT. It happened to snow few days ago, duplicating the conditions under which I had tested the first HDMR. IQ was clearly affected as shown by the presence of the same purple/yellow fringing across horizontal/vertical building edges as well as tree trunks and branches. SHIT.

Emailed Steve to give him a head's up and ask for a response. NADA. Called and got his Voice Mail, detailing the data I had gotten, and asking for a response. NADA. In the interim I got an email from Bushnell saying that I had only a one-year warranty and it was due to expire next year at this time and inviting me to sign-up for extended warranty services, WTF???

For those of you who have or are considering to get the HDMR from Bushnell, the following info may be of value. I'm just saying what my experience has been. YMMV

Called Bushnell again early today. Instead of going down a dead-end, I chose the technical support line and got a person, Alex, to whom I gave a description of what was going on, asking if that is what I should expect from a $1200-$1400 scope. She went off line briefly after talking with someone and came back on saying that under no circumstances should that optical aberration be happening, and said that she would immediately send out a return label for me to send it back to them and that it would go to the supervisor in the Bushnell Performance Optics section for his inspection and recommendation. Return shipping label showed about an hour later
smile.gif


I know from the research that I've done on the CA of high performance optics that it is present even though low-dispersion, ED glass is used; although, there are enough non ED glass versions that don't show it!. On the MagPul videos, each of the targets shown through the scopes of the "students" show a purple/reddish fringe in many of the scope shots, although we're talking here about multiple lenses and mirage to boot. Yet, it is clear from what Alex reported to me in the just referenced telephone call that this IQ aberration should NOT BE THERE in the HDMR, and I know many of you have not had any experience of it.

I am gonna send this scope back one more time for their evaluation and recommendation about what can be done about it. I'll be damned if I'm gonna take a 3rd iteration of this scope and have the same shit show up again. Otherwise, it's off to Capital One for a dispute to get my money back. I'm more than a bit frustrated, especially because what had been formerly great communication went to the latrine real fucking quick.

tony
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

I thought their QC would have learned by now. I had one of their MD FFP spotting scopes with a bunch of black specks in the FOV. I sent it back and the return unit was just as bad. I called and spoke to QC and I shipped the second unit back. Before they shipped the third unit out to me, I asked them to have somebody inspect the unit there at their facility before shipping it out to verify the quality was good. So, July of 2011, I shipped my 3rd unit back to them. I told them I would like a GOOD unit with the new TMR reticle and they said okay. Well, it's still there in the lab because they never released the TMR unit.

I have 2 friends with Bushy MD spotters with no specks. Go figure.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

Goin'Hot,

I read you, sir
smile.gif
. I reckon both your and my patience are being taxed, to say the least
laugh.gif
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

I received an HDMR H59 today from Horus.

Long story short... it had unacceptable levels of CA. After reading the accounts of others here on the Hide, I didn't even screw with repair/replace. It went back to Horus for a refund. They didn't even offer a return tag, this after imploring them to check it first, quoting these threads. I'm a little disappointed with the needless out of pocket on my end, but that's a reflection on Horus (and consistent from what I can tell) not Bushnell.

I had real hopes for these scopes. I am very hopeful that Bushnell responds quickly and in force, having witnessed the "PST Debacle"... They certainly have the resources to bring to bear. The question is: will they?

John
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

I checked out 2 or 3 of these scopes at Mammoth and they looked great under the good conditions we had there. Saw one a couple of weeks ago at Hardrock that had the same problems described above. Guess it is hit or miss......
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

John,

Just checked my cell phone about an hour ago to find that I had a call from Todd at Bushnell who invited me to call him about my issue with the 2nd scope I got. I'm not sure what the hell else there is to say about this, but, unless he's willing to cross-ship a replacement verified as to IQ quality and CA free, under multiple environmental conditions, I ain't about to go the repair and replace route.

 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

I've had two major scope manufacturers who are both Hide sponsors ship scopes out to me, no questions asked, without receiving mine first. It's the bar for CS in my book and one of them will now be getting my return business.

John
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: copdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John,

Just checked my cell phone about an hour ago to find that I had a call from Todd at Bushnell who invited me to call him about my issue with the 2nd scope I got. I'm not sure what the hell else there is to say about this, but, unless he's willing to cross-ship a replacement verified as to IQ quality and CA free, under multiple environmental conditions, I ain't about to go the repair and replace route. </div></div>

From my experience, I think they train their QC department to verify that the product "looks pretty" on the outside and the "knobs and stuff turn". I doubt the staff is not qualified to identify any actual issues that an end user may encounter and find unaceptable. JMHO
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnyDL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">was going to get one of these for an ar 10,glad i did'nt. </div></div>

I wouldn't totally discount the scope. Some guys got a great product, some got lemons. I had one for a couple days and only looked through it in a limited capacity. I was never mounted on a rifle. Playing with it, the scope impressed me and MAYBE I sold one of the good ones. I only sold it because I don't like the 5 mil knobs and heard that they were going to introduce a 10 mil / rev version. When that scope hits the market, I'm going to roll the dice and buy 2.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

So as not to cuase confusion, QC is identifying quality issues after the product is completed but before it is sent out, QA is preventing the problems from ever existing prior to rejection via intelligent engineering and strict/enforced standards and SOPs.

It is symantics, but what everyone here is refering to is deeper than simple Quality Control and a lower pay scale employee missing items on an inspection.

While focus solely on QC may have been the hot ticket in the late 70's and early 80's, if modern manufacturing companies do not focus on rejection prevention via Kaizan principals or modern Quality Assurance philosophies (applied and intentinal aproach angles) they simply will not survive in this economy.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phreakmode</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is symantics, but what everyone here is refering to is deeper than simple Quality Control and a lower pay scale employee missing items on an inspection.
</div></div>

In my particular case, I spoke to Bushy and asked them to Quality Check my spotter before it left their facility and shipped to me. They told me that they would and I could expect a blemish free product. The Quality Control department either did not get the memo to check my spotter or the presumed that the Quality Assurance department certianly would not ship a product with flaws in the first place. Either way it went down, it was a lack of Quality CONTROL that led to my THIRD spotter being shipped to me with the same flaw as the previous two units. Call it what you want and put the ultimate blame on who ever but, they told me that they would check my unit before it left their facility and they did not.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

Just made my third payment on one. Halfway to owning it. I hope I get a good one.

To everyone who has seen this issue. Is it only really noticeable with snow or are there other good ways to test it?
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just made my third payment on one. Halfway to owning it. I hope I get a good one.

To everyone who has seen this issue. Is it only really noticeable with snow or are there other good ways to test it? </div></div>

I too am really interested in this test. I was planning on getting the HDMR in March, but now you guys are scaring me a bit. If there is an easy test for this, please comment.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

I have 2 with the GAP2 reticles. No problems with either. Like them both enought that I am buying another.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slivoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just made my third payment on one. Halfway to owning it. I hope I get a good one.

To everyone who has seen this issue. Is it only really noticeable with snow or are there other good ways to test it? </div></div>

I too am really interested in this test. I was planning on getting the HDMR in March, but now you guys are scaring me a bit. If there is an easy test for this, please comment.</div></div>

FWIW, guys, here's how I found out about the CA issues: scope on 21x

Scope #1: bright overcast with heavy snow cover - all tree trunks and branches were outlined with purple on one edge and yellow on the other edge, both vertical edges and horizontal edges, and angles in between. If I kept my head perfectly centered, and I mean perfectly, then the CA was not visible. However, event he very slightest, off-center movement of my head, and there it was again.

Scope #2: bright sunny day, looking into vegetation and same trees in backyard I did not see the CA, nor did I detect it along the edges of the white building up there either. However, following a heavy snow, again on a bright overcast day, the same purple/yellow fringes shown themselves along the edges of the tree trunks and branches, as well as long the edges of the white house.

In fairness, the CA was dramatically less, than scope #1, but it was still a distraction to me, and I am not an expert long-range shooter, so I don't know how you guys who are would react to it. Also in fairness to Bushnell, I have a couple of folks who are a lot more sophisticated about optics than I am, one of whom is a major SH vendor. Each of them indicated that this kind of CA is a function of both high contrast conditions, whether or not the glass in the optic has indeed high quality, extra-low dispersion glass whose specs have been verified as ED, and, indeed, there are some high-end scopes that do not have ED glass which nevertheless do NOT show CA like this.

FWIW, I got a call from the Performance Optics section of Bushnell too late for me to call back. I'll do that this AM. I think it's significant that the young woman with whom I spoke said that such an aberration should NOT be present in that lens. Whatever, I'm sufficiently satisfied that I've not gotten my money's worth that I'll also not be doing a repair/replace. I think the previous poster correctly noted that QA has not caught these puppies going out the door and that the broader QC intervention didn't either.That said, I intend no disrespect toward the folks at Bushnell.

HTH,

tony
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

That's too bad this is happening. I feel for you guys!

Must have been a recent bad batch of glass in X number of scopes.

My HDMR's are a little older, no problems.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

Does this CA affect anything about being able to place rounds on target ? Mine has no issues either.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

In case any of you care about my opinion haha. From my experience early on the HDMRs had quality issues to there was even a disclaimer from Horus saying that there maybe flaws in the scope when you receive them haha. The first scope I got from the LE discount plan had a big dent in the front of the scope so the sunshade wouldn't screw on and who knows how bad the internals where since i shipped it right back. My buddy then got his first one through the same program and the turrets where messed up...so 2 out of 2 were deffected...it was acceptable then because the scope was all hyped up and $800.00. And at that price it was the only scope that offered some of the advantages of the higher end scopes at a affordable price i.e. was a great deal.

Problem is now they went way up in price to $1,600.00 and they are not the quality of a Nightforce so now people are going stop excepting the the issues that they were willing to except at a different price point.

I think the scope is a good scope...i think it is priced too high for what it is, and I would love to see someone put this scope through true testing not a tracking test, but put it through the military standards test and see how it does.

Glass on mine was ok, but than again i never shot it in snowy or rainy conditions so who really knows.

that my $.02 :)


I personally feel that the scope works fine and will put bullets on target but that doesn't mean we should turn our heads when they jack the price of the scope up and teh quality seems to be going down.

 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

Mine went back to Bushnell. Its been about 2 weeks and I have not heard one thing on it. They gave me a reference number that does not work in their system and will not respond to my emails. When I call I have to wait about 15-20 mins on hold until I get someone. When I do get someone they are very nice and seem helpful, but no answers on my scope.

The concept of this optic is great. I like the G2 reticle very much and for short ranges it was fine, but at Hardrock (600-1000 yards) there were visual issues with every shooter that looked through. We simply could not focus in at 800-1000 at all and we saw a pretty vibrant blue outline on our targets. It was not just my eyes in this case. Bushnell did tell me they had to re-align my reticle when I first talked to them, but did not address anything else so far.

Still hoping it will comes back fixed because I want to like this scope and already have an alpha mount ready for it.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

I noticed some blue fringe around the edges of my white target paper when I was sighting in the scope last week. I was shooting at 8"X11" white printer paper mounted on brown cardboard. It was overcast. I will need to get out with it and test it some more at different yardages / objects. I did see some blue/purple fringing on a white building I was looking at. I hope Bushnell will have a fix if it becomes an issue with these scopes.

Let us know how it goes with Bushnell.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

I have only checked out one HDMR belonging to a friend of mine. I was pretty impressed with value it offered. I think anytime you offer such bang for the buck you run the risk of this happening. I believe it was the same case with the Vortex PST. I don't think its so much about the fact that its happening but how the folks at Bushnell handle and hopefully take care of you guys. I think they can take a page from Vortex's book on that one.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

Just another update from my end: I spent a good bit of time on the phone with Todd at Bushnell Performance Optics. End of story: they will be taking it back and sending me a full refund. And I sure did want to like this scope :(, but not at the additional expense of more wait time, or another replacement that didn't work.

BTW, the post I put up about the warranty issue. the HDMR DOES HAVE a lifetime warranty. The email I got from them was simply offering me additional insurance against damage I caused, and that would have been for where the lifetime warranty didn't cover it; at least as I understood it
smile.gif


hth, tony

 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

I have an update myself:

Here you go. Steve took care of me. Disregard the $10 charge.


Lab Repair Number: 4589198

Date Received: 02-10-2012

Model / SKU: ET35215G

Estimate: $0.00

Description: 3.5-21x50 Matte 34mm, G2DMR

Shipping & Handling: $10.00

Warranty Repair Y/N: Y

Amount Paid: $0.00

Serial Number: AU48144

Balance Due: $10.00

Repair Status: Replacement Item on Order

UPS Tracking Number: Not Available
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

I don't know how bad the aberration is, but its in most all scopes in that price range to some degree. I think perhaps you're maybe expecting too much from a Bushnell? Its not like you've got a Zeiss, Swarovski, or S&B.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

Been, that is some shitty CS on their part. I personally looked through this scope, and not only was the chromatic abberation horrible, but the damn thing wouldn't even focus on the 800-1000 yard targets. That is completely unacceptable for any scope, especially for one costing $1300. Bad business on their part for making you pay more for their shitty product they couldn't get right the first time....
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know how bad the aberration is, but its in most all scopes in that price range to some degree. I think perhaps you're maybe expecting too much from a Bushnell? Its not like you've got a Zeiss, Swarovski, or S&B. </div></div>

I have owned a Vortex PST ($700) that was amazing in comparison. Hell, my buddy has a Barska on his .22 that doesn't have chromatic abberation as bad as this one did. It isn't a small problem, this scope was really bad.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

got my original one from the military discount group buy too... after about the 20th round, had a small speck of glue or something in between the lenses. Bushnell turned it around and immediately sent me a new one and paid for my shipping with a shipping label.

Haven't bothered to check for chromatic aberration. Can it be caused by also not having the diopter exactly right or the parallax exactly right at a given distance? I'm googling it now too.
smile.gif
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know how bad the aberration is, but its in most all scopes in that price range to some degree. I think perhaps you're maybe expecting too much from a Bushnell? Its not like you've got a Zeiss, Swarovski, or S&B. </div></div>

Regardless of who made the scope. Its a $1600 optic making it directly comparable to NF, Leupold (mk4), IOR, etc dollar for dollar. I have a vortex PST that I don't experience any of these issue with and its half the price.

Bushnell rant solved for me: Steve and Todd called me. I have to say Bushnell hires some really good people for their CS. They are going to get me a new scope.

The focus issue may have been due to the scope being in the high end of adjustment range (~20 mil) when trying to look at extended ranges. We are going to zero it and try again. I still cant explain the blue hue around everything, but I know it will get fixed. For anyone wanting one of these scopes, I wouldnt worry. I still think its a very good scope and t least I know they have people that will make it right in the end. Bushnell has treated me with the highest amount of courtesy and respect. It means a great deal.

 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

received mine from the military group buy as well. no issues. haven't seen any snow....so could not comment on the c.a.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

I have had repeated problems with Bushnell on quality control and also on the warranty to fix their P.O.S. products. I no longer buy any of their products and haven't had a problem since.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

Copdoc, thanks for that info. When I get my HDMR this March, I will follow what you did to see if I get any CA. Even though we have had a mild winter here in Chicago, I'll bet anyone we will have snow on the ground in March.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

For ya'll's info, I'm just off the phone with Todd at the Performance Optics section of Bushnell. They have offered to send me a full refund pending receipt of the scope. I must say that Todd sounds deeply concerned about the likelihood of some of the scopes being put out there that they are defective or have these anomalous color renditions. And he wants to get to the bottom of it.

For my part, I am genuinely ambivalent about sending the scope back. Some folks' view of the Horus reticle notwithstanding, I just like the damned thing. It friggin' worked for me the last time I had one. so, I decided to send the scope back to Todd who assured me that he would personally evaluate it, in the real world, and not just on a collimator. I told him to hang on to the check, put the scope through the ringer and let me know what he thinks is going on. At that point I can make a decision about how we are going to resolve the issue.

So, I'm good to go with where I'm at with Bushnell and I believe that Todd is being straight-up with me about his getting to bottom of this issue. The only thing more I can ask for is a scope that really works and that will surely happen.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scope #1: bright overcast with heavy snow cover - all tree trunks and branches were outlined with purple on one edge and yellow on the other edge, both vertical edges and horizontal edges, and angles in between. If I kept my head perfectly centered, and I mean perfectly, then the CA was not visible. However, event he very slightest, off-center movement of my head, and there it was again.</div></div>

Those conditions are a bear for optics. I once reviewed a March scope in conditions like this. It's like a whole different optic.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

so bottom line is when they went to mass production the quality went down and price went up...no excuses from Bushnell...its crap and you guys shouldn't have to go through this. Whether they replace it or not the hassle of doing so was there.

The Scope is over priced and other then the reticle and 3-21 power range it doesn't offer much else. No zero stop, no illumination, 5 mil turns,decent but not great glass, and a ton of quality issues not just with the glass. And its funky looking haha in my opinion.

For $1600 I am going Nightforce and for 1,300 or less I am going Burris tactical or PST

Now, if they price it right again around $900.00 I would say its what your paying for...but would still go PST.

Just hate when companies do this...if you couldn't tell
smile.gif
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

I hear ya, sir, and I agree, it shouldn't have happened or shouldn't be happening and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the ramp up in production had something to do with it, though I speculate in that regard. Even so in the year or so before private citizens could get this scope, amongst the LE and military guys who got it, I don't recall hearing anything negative about it.

Nevertheless, I am still very impressed and gratified with Todd's willingness to make this right, and at the same time having a check ready for reimbursement, should I decide to go that route. So, if his evaluation shows that it's off-spec or if, based upon the feedback I get from, I am still unwilling to take it back, I've already been in contact with one of the Hide's major vendors/contributors (?), and I'll be talking with him again tomorrow about my next scope.

tony
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

<span style="font-weight: bold">"Even so in the year or so before private citizens could get this scope, amongst the LE and military guys who got it, I don't recall hearing anything negative about it" Quote</span>

Exactly. Thats why I said once mass production started quality went down...now all Bushnell dealers can sell these scopes before only Horus had the right to, so when Bushnell was making a small amount and sending them to Horus to put in the H58 reticle they were making less but still as I mentioned earlier in the thread they still came with defects...and they were also $800.00 dollars so people didn't bitch as much. I had 2 of the originals ones they weren't bad and for the price you couldn't beat them...but at $1,600 you can easily beat them
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

Copdoc, I hope I'm not intruding, but which scope are you thinking about getting if you end up opting for a refund?
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

This is the reason you I have never seen a military unit outfitted with hdmr units on their rigs. I like that they look unique but frankly if you bang one against the door it looks like it would loose zero or break.....especially if you have a red dot sight on top.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SteelShot11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the reason you I have never seen a military unit outfitted with hdmr units on their rigs. I like that they look unique but frankly if you bang one against the door it looks like it would loose zero or break.....especially if you have a red dot sight on top. </div></div>

Do you have first hand knowledge of this?
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SteelShot11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the reason you I have never seen a military unit outfitted with hdmr units on their rigs. I like that they look unique but frankly <span style="font-weight: bold">if you bang one against the door it looks like it would loose zero or break</span>.....<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">especially</span> if you have a red dot sight on top</span>. </div></div>

Really. So it looks flimsy? I have heard they feel tough and heavy duty. Does it look even weaker with a red dot on top cause that sentence makes even less sense to me.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

They appear built heavy to me. I am not saying they are some super product I have to getting set up right now but them looking weak is the least of my worries. I hope I got weak looking super performing ones! Ha
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SteelShot11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the reason you I have never seen a military unit outfitted with hdmr units on their rigs. I like that they look unique but frankly <span style="font-weight: bold">if you bang one against the door it looks like it would loose zero or break</span>.....<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">especially</span> if you have a red dot sight on top</span>. </div></div>

Really. So it looks flimsy? I have heard they feel tough and heavy duty. Does it look even weaker with a red dot on top cause that shit doesn't make sense to me. </div></div>

No, they definitely are not flimsy in any way. In fact, when I picked it up for the first time te only thing I could think of in comparison was the S&B 3-12. This scope feels very hefty.
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

we could put this whole toughness thing to bed if one of the vendors or someone connected to Bushnell would put the scope through a rugged test. Or someone can send me it and i'll do it..haha. I sold my two long ago or else would probaly go ahead and beat the hell out of one and post the results.


The main point of this thread thus far is questioning the price $1,400(G2)-$1,600(tremor) becuase quality some people are receving the scope in has been subpar and there are other scope manufactures in that price range that offer a better product. nothing to do with being flimsy because that it certainly is not. it weighs 32oz!
 
Re: HDMR Quality Control - UPDATE

re the flimsy: apart from the CA issue with mine, I'd use it as a ball bat
laugh.gif
Also, a fellow Hide member PM'd me to say that just after he got his, he took into his backyard pool, hooked up some line to it, and tossed it into the 9.5' deep end of his swimming pool, left it there for an hour, dryed it off, and it came out of there just like it went in. That's tough I think
smile.gif


and I agree with you about the price differential, especially when one considers that the Hide Group Buy was 1250 w/ the G2 reticle.
 
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