I’m using TAC for my new load in my Tikka .223 T3 Varmint stainless. It’s a really fine ball powder and I find my Lee powder measure isn’t up to the task. I’m dropping kernels all over. Can anyone recommend a better powder measure?
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Just bite the bullet and get a V3. You can even get used ones regularly here with the 419 kit on em now that the v4 is out. I shoot a lot of ball powder including tac and the v3 does very well once you get it tuned up. Just read about setting it up and have the straw angled a little but Upward and the speed somewhere just shy of the middle point and you will be very close.I’m using TAC for my new load in my Tikka .223 T3 Varmint stainless. It’s a really fine ball powder and I find my Lee powder measure isn’t up to the task. I’m dropping kernels all over. Can anyone recommend a better powder measure?
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I also have a Hornady and ball powder is extremely consistent usually after the first pull after making an adjustment. I usually just pull twice and dump that back and then weigh on the third pull. It’ll stay the same after that.I have a hornady powder measure that throws cfe223(spherical) at +-.05 gr or less. As stated above extruded can be a shit show. H1k +-.1, varget is about the same, but h4831 long cut is stupid inconsistent.
Now the dillon slide bar throws titgroup equally as well if the process is the same. Any additional steps and it throws over from the flake powder settling/"compressing".
I have the Hornady, but that competition model will suit you fine.I ordered the Competition.
Same with mine. I check it on my beam scale consistently but it’s never been off enough to bother. I get more than acceptable SD and ES out of my loads as well. I think I paid $150 for mine when I bought it. I just can’t see anything else making me a better shooter.My RCBS lite consistently has me shooting tiny groups. Can’t see the point spending 4 times as much just because it’s the latest and greatest and measures to the kernel.
Been using a plain old RCBS measure that my son purchased for me a couple of decades ago. I can throw powder charges faster than waiting on his electronic powder measurer and trickler and i still weigh the charges on a beam scale anyway. Works great, gets me single digit SD's.Borrow a plain Jane RCBS or Redding measure.
Set it, drop 20 charges and weigh each one. If your technique is even remotely good they will be super consistent.
The Chargemaster doesn't really like ball powders, nor does that Lee.
Extruded powders are a different story.
With the money you saved by buying a powder measure, you can afford more components.
It takes about two minutes to drop 50 charges with ball powder.
With the time saved, you can shoot more.
I think there are few and far between that can shoot the difference. Not between those two but between those two and anything below.If you aren't using an autotricker or promethiues, you are wrong.
With the autotrickler being 1/4 the price, its an easy choice.
Bullshit. Watching your ES/SD drop in half will shrink your WEZ which will result in more hits.I think there are few and far between that can shoot the difference. Not between those two but between those two and anything below.
I put myself in the latter. Best and Nice are great but the cost and the ROI are probably far apart until you get to measurable level on target.
Bullshit. Watching your ES/SD drop in half will shrink your WEZ which will result in more hits.
Not to mention if you shoot any of the BR disciplines or ELR you live and die by your ES.
People say that kind of shit just prove they do not have the knowledge and experience they think they do.
Did you ever test thrown vs weighed charges? At a range?Bullshit. Watching your ES/SD drop in half will shrink your WEZ which will result in more hits.
Not to mention if you shoot any of the BR disciplines or ELR you live and die by your ES.
People say that kind of shit just prove they do not have the knowledge and experience they think they do.
Have to agree on this only, with this fella this time. With all that we spend on glass and guns and bullets, it's insane to me not to use an auto trickler. Save up for it, do what you have to do, but it's sooooo much easier and better. I haven't "upgraded " to the V4 because I don't know what advantage it really gives plus I am on the list for the ingenuity trickler thing which won't work for the v4. Honestly with that new ingenuity, I can't see any reason for me to ever move away from the V3. It's a very worth while investment.If you aren't using an autotricker or promethiues, you are wrong.
With the autotrickler being 1/4 the price, its an easy choice.
I really don't get the "can't shoot the difference " theory.... we all try to remove every variation we can to arrive at the point where our shots are "all us and not something else ". If getting a more accurate or more consistent load cuts my cone of fire down an inch or 2 in diameter , I have definitely made myself more accurate, regardless of me being able to shoot closer to center of that cone of fire every single time I go out(aka shoot the difference). I have given myself a smaller cone to work within.Question would be what are you buying the Autotrickler and Prometheus for? To the kernel accuracy? That's not going to matter much or you can't shoot the difference. This has been proven over and over again. For speed? I could see the point of that, but then again, I know people who run multiple tricklers and can get the same result. I like nice gear as much as the next guy, but I still can't justify getting a 1500 dollar machine that isn't any faster then what I currently run now.
I loaded 25 rounds of 6 Creedmoor recently with an AutoTrickler V3, and 25 with a Hornady powder thrower. H4350. The SD of the charges was indeed higherQuestion would be what are you buying the Autotrickler and Prometheus for? To the kernel accuracy? That's not going to matter much or you can't shoot the difference. This has been proven over and over again.
What are you talking about? Maybe at your retard ranges but come out west where 800 yards is a chip shot and maybe you can learn something.Deathbydiscount,
Your statement is nothing but bullshit.
If buying the best of everything prevented bad loading, then tell me why, when I'm at the range, I see some of the best equipment that can't make consistent hits at 800yds?
These guys load on their top dollar equipment. They have rifles with top tier optics. They even drive $90k vehicles.
If buying the best loading scale/measure makes all the difference in the world, why are they having ES/SD issues? Why can't they consistently hit the target?
It's because some people can fuck up a pushup.
It's because some people just can't shoot for shit.
It's because buying the best doesn't make you the best.
Buying the best doesn't mean a person automatically uses it correctly. If it did, we'd buy the best golf clubs and become the Tiger Woods of the early 2000s.
If buying the best car made the difference, we'd all become Mario Andretti.
Buying the best scale/measure just means we have the opportunity to charge the cases correctly.
But then, there's still resizing, primer seating and topping it all with a projectile.
All of that has to be done correctly or you still end up with shit.
It's too bad that loading great ammunition requires more than one step, otherwise you could have been right.
I loaded 25 rounds of 6 Creedmoor recently with an AutoTrickler V3, and 25 with a Hornady powder thrower. H4350. The SD of the charges was indeed higher for the thrown charges. But both groups had SD 10fps when fired. So there may not always be any benefit to reducing the charge weight variance beyond that of a dropper.Question would be what are you buying the Autotrickler and Prometheus for? To the kernel accuracy? That's not going to matter much or you can't shoot the difference. This has been proven over and over again.
Yes it will. Been there done that. Going from a CM lite with all the upgrades.Your SD won’t drop by half from something like a charge master to an auto trickler. It’s been tested to death. In fact, many top F and BR still use them.
Also, the only BR discipline that care about chrono data are the longer range. Short range throws on harrels and such and most have no idea what their chrono numbers are. They don’t even know what the actual charge weight is. Just the clicks on the thrower.
Also, SD is a far, far more important statistic than ES. Those still looking more so at ES aren’t fully informed/educated on the differences.
Have you done the testing on this? In my personal testing, with thrown with a thrower, vs, a trickler, vs to the kernel on the same loads yielded the same results. A lot of the stuff in reloading is really mental, people like to justify their purchases.I really don't get the "can't shoot the difference " theory.... we all try to remove every variation we can to arrive at the point where our shots are "all us and not something else ". If getting a more accurate or more consistent load cuts my cone of fire down an inch or 2 in diameter , I have definitely made myself more accurate, regardless of me being able to shoot closer to center of that cone of fire every single time I go out(aka shoot the difference). I have given myself a smaller cone to work within.
When it's gets down to a very small degree, I can get behind the "shoot the difference " mantra, but there's a threshold we all try to get to and improving your load definitely helps in that pursuit.
Does that make sense?
So you don't understand what the tool is for but find it funny?Question would be what are you buying the Autotrickler and Prometheus for? To the kernel accuracy? That's not going to matter much or you can't shoot the difference. This has been proven over and over again. For speed? I could see the point of that, but then again, I know people who run multiple tricklers and can get the same result. I like nice gear as much as the next guy, but I still can't justify getting a 1500 dollar machine that isn't any faster then what I currently run now.
You seem to be example #1.For a site dedicated to long range precision fires there sure are alot of people who need to read more and post less.
Hate to tell you this but last year's F Class Nationals champ reloads on a ChargeMaster. To the kernel accuracy loads are not going to make you a top level shooter. There are way too many other variables in shooting for it make a difference that you can tell.Yes it will. Been there done that. Going from a CM lite with all the upgrades.
EVERYONE I know who shoots competitive and literally every f-class/BR guy I know and MOST of the top PRS guys I know are using them.
If you don't think ES is important, you don't know as much as you think you do. ELR guys have some things to teach you.
Says the person with over 1k post in 6 months.So you don't understand what the tool is for but find it funny?
Glad we got that cleared up.
For a site dedicated to long range precision fires there sure are alot of people who need to read more and post less.
Yes I have tested it with a beam scale and vs chargemaster and the V3 is much more consistent, not to mention much easier. I was taught to load on a beam scale so I was partial to that but the results are simply not the same .Have you done the testing on this? In my personal testing, with thrown with a thrower, vs, a trickler, vs to the kernel on the same loads yielded the same results. A lot of the stuff in reloading is really mental, people like to justify their purchases.
Did you test this by shooting the charges or just look at the weights?Yes I have tested it with a beam scale and vs chargemaster and the V3 is much more consistent, not to mention much easier. I was taught to load on a beam scale so I was partial to that but the results are simply not the same .
I think the other question would be what is the SD at the target with weighed charges.For shiz n' giggles I tested a known accurate load with a small sample (20 rounds) of thrown loads at 1K. No wind holds/corrections, just elevation. Two sighters to find the center. One flyer at 1 O'clock that could be me or thrower tossed .2gr, I don't know. This +/- .1gr load gave an SD of 35fps. According to ballistic calcs, it equals +/- 5 inches.....that's within 1 MOA at 1,000 yds...
Yeah, makes a difference if you are shooting F-class or a 2 MOA steel. But maybe for the average Joe, does .02gr/1 kernel accuracy make a difference? I dunno, people here make it sound like you won't hit the side of a barn......
You seem to be example #1.