Help me choose a bipod

groper

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Ok ive narrowed it down to a few quality bipods i want to fit onto my new 375Cheytac. I dont have experience using any of the following so im hoping some of you can tell me a bit more about them to help with my descision.

First, it needs to be "no tools" picatinny mounted.
Second, im looking for good feild functionality, i do alot of shooting in the mountains on uneven ground, steep slopes, rocks, awkward positions etc
And third, its gotta be tough, and rock solid.

So im trying to choose between the following...

Rock Creek
Tango down
Atlas V8
GG&G
New versapod

What do you think and why?
 

JRose

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Re: Help me choose a bipod

Although I did shoot a new Versapod and liked it, I'm getting an Atlas... I like it mo betta
 

deadly0311

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Re: Help me choose a bipod

Atlas, just based on Kasey's reputation when it comes to service. And its a great piece of gear.
 

Kasey

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Re: Help me choose a bipod

groper, Thanks for considering the Atlas, regardless of your decision, I'm honored to be included in your list of possibles.

And to you other guys that posted your support for the Atlas above, a big THANK YOU! I appreciate it and never take any such actions for granted.
 

Louis Corkern

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Re: Help me choose a bipod

Groper,

For your 375 I would not recommend either of the bipods you listed, while couple of them may be able to deal with the weight of your 19+ rifle system it is the footprint width that they all will be lacking.

I suggest looking at LR Accuracy Bipod, some of the older modified M60 bipods, etc on that line of things.

Thanks
 

Dagsta

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Re: Help me choose a bipod

I think LC's got a good point. While I am a big atlas fan for smaller bores and rifles. The footprint on the 375 might become an issue!!
 

madd0c

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Re: Help me choose a bipod

Atlas works very well on my 338LM, and it weighs in at around 23 pounds. Footprint width has not been an issue for my rifle.

madd0c
 

Louis Corkern

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Re: Help me choose a bipod

It has nothing to do with the weight of the rifle...weight and footprint is not a direct relation in this situation. Footprint is in regards to recoil characteristics of the 375 along with the center of gravity point of the rifle in conjunction of each other.

I am not just guessing at the footprint being an issue
smile.gif
I speaking from experience and not just an assumption based off lil gun (338LM and under btw) calibers.

Thanks
 

Chiller

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Later</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Groper,

    For your 375 I would not recommend either of the bipods you listed, while couple of them may be able to deal with the weight of your 19+ rifle system it is the footprint width that they all will be lacking.

    I suggest looking at LR Accuracy Bipod, some of the older modified M60 bipods, etc on that line of things.

    Thanks </div></div>

    Is this bipod really going to happen? Jumped to their website and there is no contact info outside of a email. The only concern being is one of the last super bipods went south in a big way.
     

    Louis Corkern

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    Yep...have had the prototype version for a while now and will have finalized production version this week..Lots of tweaks and modifications have went into the production version and that only comes from T&E which is not something you can put a timeline on.

    That is also why I listed couple other types for people that wanted RIGHT NOW type of things.

    Thanks

    PS..The "other" bipod situation is being remedied right now per "SCL" and his updated thread.
     

    Kasey

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    Later,

    "Footprint is in regards to recoil characteristics of the 375 along with the center of gravity point of the rifle in conjunction of each other."

    I am very interested in this opinion, will you please share more of the hows and whys you arrived there?

    B&T plans to bring the patented aspects of the Atlas to the big bore rifles and due to a very basic change in the Atlas design the stance will be wider. So your statement makes me wonder what the actual science is that dictates such would be distinguished as better in particular on the 375.

    Thank you for any considerations in sharing your findings here with us.

    Sincerely,

    Kasey
     

    groper

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    well acutually kasey i was thinking i had an idea for your version 9 bipod
    smile.gif


    One of the best things about your bipod kasey, is the independent adjustability in the legs to the 45deg angle etc. It makes it more versatile for awkward positions aswell as for more/less elevation. If you could incorporate a second or third position for the legs to 'splay out' aswell as its current function, you would have an even more versatile unit. The sinclair tactical bipod has this function, perhaps you could look at their mechanism to draw an intial idea from?

    Later, thanks for your advice, ive been looking at bipods for months now and still cant decide, mostly because all of them dont really have exactly what im looking for... i have no idea what function the LRaccuracy has, there is no info on it, so please tell me more if you can? And BTW, a fisher f50 brake sits on my muzzle now thanks to you!

    The main consideration for me is being able to use it in awkward situations, my experience in the field has frustrated me many times with trying get a bipod to sit right amongst the rocks, and long grass etc on the side of a hill, i usually end up folding the damn thing up and resting the foreend on a single rock or something to take the shot and end up in a very poor shooting position.

    When im at the range or target shooting, none of this is an issue, and any F class solid bipods work great.
     

    groper

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kasey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Later,

    "Footprint is in regards to recoil characteristics of the 375 along with the center of gravity point of the rifle in conjunction of each other."

    I am very interested in this opinion, will you please share more of the hows and whys you arrived there?

    B&T plans to bring the patented aspects of the Atlas to the big bore rifles and due to a very basic change in the Atlas design the stance will be wider. So your statement makes me wonder what the actual science is that dictates such would be distinguished as better in particular on the 375.

    Thank you for any considerations in sharing your findings here with us.

    Sincerely,

    Kasey </div></div>

    I think he is referring to the considerable torque that the bigger rifles produce kasey. As the rifling accelerates a heavier mass projectile to a greater speed, the rifle itself tries to twist the other way. When this torque happens whilst sitting ontop of a bipod, you can imagine the rifle tries to cant itself as the projectile accelerates down the barrel. I think the idea behind the central barrel axis pivoting bipods is that whilst the torque is still there, it is balanced. So if there is any "slack" in the support from the shooter, the torque doesnt induce any sideways muzzle shift, it only torques with the barrel axis and you get a slight cant only. If this happens whilst sitting on top of a conventional bipod, the torque can (AFAIK) induce unwanted muzzle shift laterally, which affects your accuracy worse than just the cant alone.

    So a wider stance helps provide more leverage against the torque, and the central barrel axis pivot provides a better balance to reduce unwanted muzzle movement from the shooters hold on the weapon during recoil... (AFAIK)
     

    Kasey

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    groper, thanks, I'm glad you like the 45 degree position, we have had a lot of positive feedback on that feature and I'm jazzed shooters like it which is also why it's part of our patent application on the Atlas and a feature we will bring to the bigger V10 unit.

    On the splaying action, have you been inside my brain??? LOL, I would have never thought of that! I've seen pictures of the Sinclair, I don't do "design arounds" and have not applied any talents I might have towards that discipline preferring to try to satisfy the need that the guys that walk to work might have. Anyhow, I'll leave that "spread-up" action to better minds. I'm thinking that if you have controllable pan, and cant, independent leg positions and elevation range, you can get some pretty crazy positions from a bipod. Now, I can see where some positions would not be developed by any of that but thats why God gave us a butt...
    grin.gif


    No joke, I had a instructor that gave a mountain class tell me the Atlas was able to accommodate a lot of his positions, getting into a crack then panning over to the target. i had never thought of that, rather setting up and panning a moving or multiple targets. Anyhow, don't underestimate the power of the pan!

    Anyhow, this I know the bipods you mention all have more or less a strong or very strong resale here. So you can always try them till you find one that satisfies you.
     

    problemchild

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    I can give a review on the atlas mounted to a POF 308.

    IT HAD PROBLEMS

    I like to get low and with the legs slanted forward one of the legs would pop out of the forward lock and the rifle would collapse on that side. This is with a 308 rifle. Anything bigger would be worse.

    The bipod tension knob would also loosen up every few rounds and I would have to tighten it again.

    With the legs straight down you only had to deal with the tension knob issue.

    FYI
     

    Kasey

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    problemchild, did you buy this new?

    The tension know issued is resolved via the Helbender washer stack. We do that free in-house.

    Regarding the leg collapsing, did you have any trouble moving the legs into the different positions? Evidence of this is the base metal (Aluminum) being exposed on the corners of the portion of the leg that engages the detents.

    If this is the case, we'll replace the damaged leg free, or if you wish, you can get the V7 converted to the V8 for 49.95. You can see the V8 here on another thread.

    I want you to be happy with our products so please let me know what we can do to make that a reality.

    Sincerely,

    Kasey
     

    Kasey

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    groper, sorry to have missed your explanation. I can see the logic in it and thanks for sharing. I would still like to hear Later's explanation, maybe yours sums it up or maybe there is more to learn!
     
    I

    IsleofGough

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    My experience with the Atlas: yes, before the washer fix, it would loosen a little with multiple side to side pans, but that was fixed. The 45 degree collapse, I never experienced but with the V8, I don't think that is a possibility. The bipod is light, dirt resistant, and works. It is not something one has to tinker with to get right. It rapidly becomes so seamless with shooting it is almost forgotten. And if you have questions or problems, Kasey is the best.
     

    Louis Corkern

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    Good Day

    While Groper was partly correct in regards to recoil characteristics, Kasey you are also correct in regards to theres a lot more to it.
    I will attempt to explain in writing (It is much easier in talking lol)...

    It all begins with knowing, understanding and realizes that "big bore" weapon systems have their own shooting techniques and their own line of issues in regards to the actual rifle equipment. Anyone that says you use the same shooting techniques for big bore systems as you do the normal systems have not shot enough big bore systems to understand the difference and/or have never been taught big bore shooting techniques and just brought over what they knew from normal systems into the big systems.
    Hence that all the support equipment from normal systems are always brought over to the big systems and generally never works and reason manufactures typically just build larger versions of their products and deem them suitable for big systems which they are actually not.

    Technique Differences
    First: In big bore systems you do NOT preload the bipod..the preferred and taught technique is actually just the opposite, you unload that bipod. This is done for several different reasons to include: 1)The recoil is going to move the rifle and shooter so no point in shooter taking all the recoil while the rifle takes up the "slack" on the bipod due to rifle being muscled all the way forward. 2)It is also done to reduce the muzzle brake induced error (This occurs when using a venting muzzle brake..I will explain what MBIE is below). 3)It is done because big bore systems prefer to be shot using a semi free recoil hold and not muscled into position.

    Second: In big bore systems they perform better (and shooter will feel better lol) if you allow the system to semi free recoil) No matter how hard you think you gonna hold the rifle it IS going to move you so no point in shooter taking the abuse, thats what the support equipment is for. Following the first step above allows the bipod to take the initial brunt of the recoil before the shooter shoulder does and that happens because shooter isn't preloading the bipod and jamming his shoulder into the gun.

    Third: Concept of as long as you are straight behind the rifle then it will not torque upwards does not transfer over to the big systems. You can be as straight as possible behind it and the rifle can be perfect horizontal alignment with the ground BUT it is still going to come upward unless you have muzzle brake that vents the gas slightly up that pushes the barrel towards the ground. They are out there and they work but depending on what rifle they own it causes a completely different set of issues to worry about.

    Line of Issues
    First: Muzzle brake induced error..This effect occurs when one is shooting a large bore (50BMG) rifle that is equipped with a venting-type muzzle brake. A shooter that is muscling his gun onto the desired point impact on target will experience this effect. As the bullet begins to travel down the bore, the cold air (precursor) in from of the bullet enters the muzzle brake and the brake starts to pull the rifle from the shooter's shoulder. This causes the gun to be further pulled in the direction the shooter is muscling the rifle. The MBIE effect is one of the biggest causes of misses on target of errant fliers in a group of shots. SIDENOTE: This is one of reasons why the NSWC teaches to pull the Tac50 into the shooter and basically “unload” the bipod.
    Second: Unlike normal systems where a 300WM in a couple different builds will have pretty much the same recoil characteristics as long as gun is approximate same weight and same muzzle brake or no brake..that does not hold true in the big bore systems. In the big bore systems it is all dependent on each and every component of that rifle (stock, barrel, action, brake, bipod). You take a Tac50 style build with muzzle brake the vents the gas up in order to keep the barrel down..well that recoil then punches the shooter in the face with the buttstock due to short pivot angle of that stock system. That in itself reaks havoc on bipods due to the manufactures just made bigger versions of their existing product but done nothing to the bipod that helps in handle recoil DOWN onto the top of it.

    That should be enough to get people either thinking or wanting to debate techniques
    smile.gif


    Thanks

    PS: Kasey..good luck on the 45deg leg patent because I am looking at bipods with 45deg leg locks on the following:
    Steyr 15.2mm rifle
    Daisy M600Standard
    Daisy M600 14.5x114m
    Becker Bipod from around 2000-2001 era
     

    Kasey

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    Thanks Later, I had no idea there was so much difference to the big bore rifles. As a guest to the SEAL Sniper school, at the 'after action dinner", one of .50 cal instructors told me about not loading the bipod on the .50. So I knew there was a difference but I had no idea how much! I'll take time and try to digest/understand all that quick as time allows.

    Regarding the patent, thank you, we now have at least two claims awarded on the Atlas and seeking three more. And thank you for the reference, I'll send those to my attorney so he can see if there is any prior art concerns, but our claim is not as narrow as you might have concluded. I might be wrong.

    Again, Thanks for sharing.
     

    Kasey

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    GoughIsland, that is a great report and I'm glad to have added some value to your shooting experience.

    Later read your opinion today, again Thank you for sharing. I found it very interesting and as I am at zero when it come to big bore stuff, some of it is logical (MBIE, never would have thought of that but makes sense), other parts (semi-free recoil) I am struggling with. I would want the rifle tight in my shoulder, with no influence on the bipod, maybe that is the "semi" part???

    Also, I could not agree more about scaling things up for really nothing more than appearance, form should follow function IMHO. Thus the reason I've never felt building a bigger V8 Atlas was any sort of answer.

    However I did not see anything in your writings regarding the wider stance or footprint or center of gravity which is what I was really asking about. Did I miss something? I am really quite dense at times so my apologies if I did.
     

    mouse07410

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    A naive question. Does the rule of loading the bipod or not depend on the weight/size of the shooter - or only the caliber? Where does the "big bore" caliber start?

    E.g. I'm 120 lb (with the backpack
    smile.gif
    ). Should I consider then 338LM as "big bore" because of my lower mass? Do I load bipod on 338LM, or let it "semi free recoil"?

    What about Cheytac?

    Thanks!
     

    Kasey

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    problemchild, I have PM'd you. I remain interested in resolving your experience with the Atlas.
     

    problemchild

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kasey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">problemchild, I have PM'd you. I remain interested in resolving your experience with the Atlas. </div></div>

    OK

    I sold the rifle with bipod attached as buyer wanted bipod.
     

    ohiogunnut

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    First, it needs to be "no tools" picatinny mounted.
    </div></div>

    I'd look at the GG&G and Atlas v8 given your criteria. Two caveats, the GG&G needs modified by cutting a slot in the housing to allow locking at 45 deg. This helps alot as it is on the high side at 90, but very solid. The new Atlas revision also looks promising as it prevents leg collapse at 45 deg and cant wait to get mine back.

    5296.jpg
     

    Kasey

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    Later,

    Will you please explain the need for a wider stance or footprint as well as the center of gravity issues as they pertain to the larger bore rifles?

    I believe you did address some differences of basic big bore rifles but not the two issues noted above I had asked about. If I did miss something, please let me know. I am really quite dense at times.
     

    mdesign

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    This thread is interesting, I too have wondered if there is a better bipod out there and if so what is it and why is it better.

    All my experience to date has been with a Harris and I have to say they work well for what I know about the function of a bipod and they are less expensive than an Atlas. You can manage recoil with the Harris assuming you are straight. behind the rifle and build your shooting position properly and I have no doubt the same can be done with an Atlas. I would also say the Atlas appears to be better built than a Harris but have never used one so I cannot offer an opinion on if that translates into better shooting.

    Kasey - you appear to be connected to the Atlas organization. I went to the website that is linked into your signature line but I do not see anything about the V8 model, is it still under development? There is the "no hop video" but is there a video showing the functions of the Atlas? Guess I am looking for something that shows how it works, adjusts, etc. Would be good to see so if you have a link, I would appreciate it.
     

    MGC

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    Anyone know where I can buy the atlas v8? How is it on a 300wsm? Is that considered small bore or big bore? I guess if it can handle big bore it will handle small bore?
     

    Chiller

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    call KAsey tomorrow and get in teh line with everybody else. It will handle the 300WSM. I have a 7mmWSM and she does very well.
     

    Kasey

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    mdesign, I do have an association with B&T Ind. which makes the Atlas bipods, and the website is outdated, all we are selling is the V8. The major difference between the V7 and V8 is the push buttons used to position the legs. The video is coming as is the website update.

    MGC, we are waiting on a single part, vendor "lost" the PO and 6 weeks passed before they discovered it....anyhow, we hope to have them in the next 10 days then start filling orders. Best play is to order sooner rather than later with any of our dealers or us.

    Thanks Chiller, and believe it or not, your order is about in the middle of the stack!
     

    MGC

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    I would like to order one from you. How much and do you do pay pal?
     

    Jared44

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    Before you buy, check out the new line from Versa Pod. They have new attachtments that offer actual "swing" or "swiveling" capabilities. That is the first company I've found that can do that.
     

    Kasey

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    Jared44, where can I see this new versa pod with "swing"?

    And what do you mean by swing?

    The terminology used for bipods is a bit confusing, Harris calls it "swivel" when it is really "cant", and "swivel" is used by uncle sam to describe pan...here is the way we describe those functions;

    CANT - provides the means to allow the horizontal reticle to be leveled. (this can also be done by adjusting one or the other leg length)

    PAN (also called "Swivel" by uncle sam): - provides the means to sweep the muzzle left to right from a center axis on the bipod.
     

    Henry A. Bowman

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    This is an interesting thread for a number of reasons.

    1. I mounted a new V8 on my Serbu 50 BFG and have been shooting tighter groups than ever (have only been at this a couple of months).

    2. Since reading Later's posts about unloading the bipod (after I was shooting with the bipod loaded), I've experimented with that and can see no real difference in my groups or the felt recoil when I let the gun semi-free recoil.

    The biggest difference I've seen in my performance is dependent on the two ranges at which I've shot the 50 thus far. Range 1 has very open, but covered shooting points with wooden benches and a variety of stools. Range 2 is a very small enclosed point (at 200 yards anyway) where the walls of the shed are concrete block up about 5' and the benches are freakin concrete as well. All I can say is that shooting in a confined space with nothing but concrete to absorb the blast is not much fun after 10-15 rounds. The good news is that when I do show up with the 50, the other guys at the 200 yard range all leave
    smile.gif


    Later...as a guy who is doing most of his learning through reading and trial and error, do you have any sources you might point me to for 50 shooting instruction?

    Henry
     

    abilliott

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    Re: Help me choose a bipod

    I just got my GG&G ADS hvy duty yesterday and at first was very displeased with the legs in the folded up position, (lots of slack. I tweaked it a bit and got it to lock up a bit tighter and now couldn't be happier. +1 on the GG&G

    I love the 45 degree modification that was posted on page 1, thats really slick, I will have to investigate further to see if I am capable of me mod