Help me hoard high end rifles before elections

Tactical trashcan

Fish On!
Minuteman
May 17, 2020
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If you get an AK get an Arsenal inc. they are some of the best AK’s and they are a local Las Vegas company, so you would also be supporting local business as well as getting a top tier weapon. They make them in 5.56x 45 as well I believe.
 

BullGear

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If you get an AK get an Arsenal inc. they are some of the best AK’s and they are a local Las Vegas company, so you would also be supporting local business as well as getting a top tier weapon. They make them in 5.56x 45 as well I believe.
I have an Arsenal 223 AK. It's fun to shoot. I bought steel cased ammo years ago and finally have something to it with.
 
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houndog

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Wow, you're getting a ton of advice - a lot of it pretty good.

Also looks like you've already assembled a pretty good collection of firearms. Knights Armament makes top quality rifles, and I think they tend to be a little softer shooting than some of the other AR's out there. JP is known for making AR's with outstanding accuracy.

You've asked a couple of question about Tavors and PWS. Since I own both I will share my thoughts.

Tavor - personally I like the Tavor and shoot it pretty well. You get a 16" barrel in a very small package. I like the balance of the rifle, with most of the weight in the back. I have had 0 issues with my Tavor after several thousand rounds and I think they are a reliable firearm. However, as others have pointed out, their ergonomics are completely different than an AR, and there is definitely a learning curve. Also, their stock triggers suck. I am something of a trigger whore and believe a shitty trigger will definitely hold you back if you want to shoot accurately. Geissele makes an after market trigger but it is pretty pricey. Also, the Tavor's accuracy is mediocre. Maybe 1.5-2 MOA. So, if you are looking for personal defense weapon for use around your property, where size, maneuverability and handling are important and long range accuracy less so, the Tavor might be a good choice. Otherwise, I'd look elsewhere.

PWS - I own several piston rifles, including a PWS and a POF. I really like the PWS. Again, pretty soft shooting rifle, very reliable, good accuracy and fairly light for a piston. I do not currently own a suppressor, but my understanding is that they handle suppression pretty well. So this should definitely be a contender.

A couple of other suggestions. As I recommended in a post in another one of your threads, I am a big fan of the LaRue Ultimate Uppers because I think they represent a very good value. For under $900 you can buy a LaRue ultimate upper and a blemished Aeroprecision stripped lower receiver. Put the lower together yourself (it's really easy and the LaRue Ultimate Upper kit comes with all the other parts you need) and have a first rate rifle. In fact, just this afternoon I was out shooting my 12" LaRue upper on a lower I put together myself (and SBR'd). I have a relatively cheap 5x Primary Arms scope on it and was shooting rapid fire at 25-50 yards, and then moved to shooting off a rest and was hitting 5" plates at 200 yards pretty consistently. If I were looking for a do it all home defense gun I'd get one of their ultimate uppers with a 12" barrel in 300 BO. I think they may still have their suppressor deal going, and if so, combining it with a suppressor would give you an outstanding personal defense weapon at a price that's very tough to beat.

Another alternative, KAC used to make an upper in 300 BO. They are pretty rare, but outstanding rifles. I picked one up for an unbelievable price, but I just kind of lucked out and was in the right place at the right time.

Since you're worried about potential changes in the law, I would definitely pay your $200 and SBR at least one lower. Or you could avoid the whole NFA thing and buy a pistol brace. Same thing with suppressors, I'd get a couple now. Frankly, for the liberals this is pretty low hanging fruit and I think it's only a matter of time before the anti-2nd amendment types make this illegal.

Finally, and I know this has become a long post, you really need to start thinking about optics, which can be very expensive, but will definitely impact the usability/effectiveness of whatever rifles you buy. If you take a quick look in this forum you will see that a ton of ink has been spent on this topic. Essentially, you need to decide what you will use a particular rifle for. Under 100 yards, and primarily under 50 yards, an Aimpoint or Eotech are tough to beat. I personally prefer Eotech (I have both) because I have a slight astigmatism and the red dots just don't work as well for me. However, the Aimpoint is a little more rugged and has much better battery life.

If you want something that offers you the most flexibility, you're looking at a low power variable scope (or maybe an ACOG if you are primarily concerned with simplicity). There are a ton of decent options. On the low end SWFA makes a decent 1x4 scope that's pretty cheap and a good value. If you have a bigger budget the world is your oyster. Leupold, Schmidt and Bender, Nightforce, U.S. Optic, Vortex, Steiner and several others all make top notch glass. And you can go 1x4, 1x6, 1x8, 1.5x10 depending on how far out you want to go and how much weight you can tolerate.

And then there are your long range guns, something your never really going to use under 100 yards, but that you might want to shoot out to 1000. Again, a scope from any of the top mfg. will be money well spent.

BTW - I'm a fellow New Yorker, although I have the good sense to now live in Colorado. :)
 
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1911addict42

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Wow, you're getting a ton of advice - a lot of it pretty good.

Also looks like you've already assembled a pretty good collection of firearms. Knights Armament makes top quality rifles, and I think they tend to be a little softer shooting than some of the other AR's out there. JP is known for making AR's with outstanding accuracy.

You've asked a couple of question about Tavors and PWS. Since I own both I will share my thoughts.

Tavor - personally I like the Tavor and shoot it pretty well. You get a 16" barrel in a very small package. I like the balance of the rifle, with most of the weight in the back. I have had 0 issues with my Tavor after several thousand rounds and I think they are a reliable firearm. However, as others have pointed out, their ergonomics are completely different than an AR, and there is definitely a learning curve. Also, their stock triggers suck. I am something of a trigger whore and believe a shitty trigger will definitely hold you back if you want to shoot accurately. Geissele makes an after market trigger but it is pretty pricey. Also, the Tavor's accuracy is mediocre. Maybe 1.5-2 MOA. So, if you are looking for personal defense weapon for use around your property, where size, maneuverability and handling are important and long range accuracy less so, the Tavor might be a good choice. Otherwise, I'd look elsewhere.

PWS - I own several piston rifles, including a PWS and a POF. I really like the PWS. Again, pretty soft shooting rifle, very reliable, good accuracy and fairly light for a piston. I do not currently own a suppressor, but my understanding is that they handle suppression pretty well. So this should definitely be a contender.

A couple of other suggestions. As I recommended in a post in another one of your threads, I am a big fan of the LaRue Ultimate Uppers because I think they represent a very good value. For under $900 you can buy a LaRue ultimate upper and a blemished Aeroprecision stripped lower receiver. Put the lower together yourself (it's really easy and the LaRue Ultimate Upper kit comes with all the other parts you need) and have a first rate rifle. In fact, just this afternoon I was out shooting my 12" LaRue upper on a lower I put together myself (and SBR'd). I have a relatively cheap 5x Primary Arms scope on it and was shooting rapid fire at 25-50 yards, and then moved to shooting off a rest and was hitting 5" plates at 200 yards pretty consistently. If I were looking for a do it all home defense gun I'd get one of their ultimate uppers with a 12" barrel in 300 BO. I think they may still have their suppressor deal going, and if so, combining it with a suppressor would give you an outstanding personal defense weapon at a price that's very tough to beat.

Another alternative, KAC used to make an upper in 300 BO. They are pretty rare, but outstanding rifles. I picked one up for an unbelievable price, but I just kind of lucked out and was in the right place at the right time.

Since you're worried about potential changes in the law, I would definitely pay your $200 and SBR at least one lower. Or you could avoid the whole NFA thing and buy a pistol brace. Same thing with suppressors, I'd get a couple now. Frankly, for the liberals this is pretty low hanging fruit and I think it's only a matter of time before the anti-2nd amendment types make this illegal.

Finally, and I know this has become a long post, you really need to start thinking about optics, which can be very expensive, but will definitely impact the usability/effectiveness of whatever rifles you buy. If you take a quick look in this forum you will see that a ton of ink has been spent on this topic. Essentially, you need to decide what you will use a particular rifle for. Under 100 yards, and primarily under 50 yards, an Aimpoint or Eotech are tough to beat. I personally prefer Eotech (I have both) because I have a slight astigmatism and the red dots just don't work as well for me. However, the Aimpoint is a little more rugged and has much better battery life.

If you want something that offers you the most flexibility, you're looking at a low power variable scope (or maybe an ACOG if you are primarily concerned with simplicity). There are a ton of decent options. On the low end SWFA makes a decent 1x4 scope that's pretty cheap and a good value. If you have a bigger budget the world is your oyster. Leupold, Schmidt and Bender, Nightforce, U.S. Optic, Vortex, Steiner and several others all make top notch glass. And you can go 1x4, 1x6, 1x8, 1.5x10 depending on how far out you want to go and how much weight you can tolerate.

And then there are your long range guns, something your never really going to use under 100 yards, but that you might want to shoot out to 1000. Again, a scope from any of the top mfg. will be money well spent.

BTW - I'm a fellow New Yorker, although I have the good sense to now live in Colorado. :)
There’s definitely been great info here, and you’ve given good feedback too! I’ve been looking at Tavor, but decided against it, for now, so that my training is limited to one platform. If I improve my skills a lot, I may consider adding a gun like that.
Rifle builds can be good, but I’ve avoided it because they don’t retain their value as well.
As for optics... I’ve got the T2 on my 300 blackout, and Vortex LVPO on the KAC. Considering the Burris XTR when the JP is ready... mostly based on the reviews I’ve seen her.
 

TheOE800

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This thread really took off, remind me what you’re doing for optics?

For my SR-25 I’ve got a Spectre TR on one upper and a ZCO on order for the other. Not to mention ACOGs, an EOTech EXPS3-0, Vortex Duey, Vortex Gen 3, etc. as sighting systems on other platforms. These are a considerable investment beyond the firearms themselves, but you may not want such an investment if some of these are going to be stored for years on end.
 

1911addict42

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This thread really took off, remind me what you’re doing for optics?

For my SR-25 I’ve got a Spectre TR on one upper and a ZCO on order for the other. Not to mention ACOGs, an EOTech EXPS3-0, Vortex Duey, Vortex Gen 3, etc. as sighting systems on other platforms. These are a considerable investment beyond the firearms themselves, but you may not want such an investment if some of these are going to be stored for years on end.
So the rifles I’ll be using now are the KAC SR15- it has a vortex strike Eagle 1-8 on it, which is ok, I may upgrade when I get better.
the Silent proffessional 300 blackout with the Aimpoint T2.
and the JP LRI 20 thinking about the Burris XTR3, I know little about it but the boys in here seem to think it represents a very good value.
I may decide to get another lightweight .308 as a “battle rifle” but not there yet.
The other rifles will probably stay in their original packaging for now.
 

SilentVapor631

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Absolutely- I’ve limited myself to four calibers- .308, 5.56, 300, and 9mm. While there’s others I want, like 6.5 and .45, I’ve decided horse calibers cover my bases and simplify my life
id get a 6.5 over a 45 cause its more on a competition round you get do more with a 9mm. honestly what about a 5.7 threaded barrel or 10mm you can also shoot .40mm thought the same barrel.
 

Gustav7

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BTW - I'm a fellow New Yorker, although I have the good sense to now live in Colorado. :)
Shit these days Colorado isn't much better. Should have just gone a short drive north to southern Wyoming lol
 

deersniper

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Just remember who to vote for in November so you can keep all those new toys
Has to be more than that. Have to get all your friends relatives kids acquaintances etc to vote for him to get past the massive vote fraud that will happen with bs mail in voting and extended voting and same day registration
 

deersniper

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Add a Benelli M4 12 ga. semi automatic shotgun to your cache for a PDW. I recently purchased the LE version with collapsable stock and extended magazine. Add some 00 buckshot and slugs, or Hornady Critical Defense and you 've got the best home defense gone there is. If it's good enough for the Marines, good enough for me.

Bravo (BCM) also makes a really good AR in either 5.56 or 300BLK also. Noveske Ghetto Blaster or Q Honeybadger are very very hard to get.

My recent purchases in the past 6 months also include Barrett MRAD 6.5CM, DDM4 300BLK, Sig P320 X5 Legion, Sig P320 RXP XCompact, and Sig P365.
2F273681-FB21-410A-8A65-D065DA2079C5.gif

Heavy, long, high recoil, slow reloads, plus a new platform to learn


No way. Shotguns should be left in the trash heap of arms history
 
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hlee

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So other than a couple of minor things to tweak... my Angry Joe build is done. I had mentioned being stuck on how to do the stock... but I finally figured out a great way to have some fun with it. The upper is all rainbows and sparkles... and the lower is dark and covered in urban decay. I think it speaks!

View attachment 7371218

Rear sight. I think I did well with the Liver Spots...

View attachment 7371219

Blue Balls and a Banana Clip. The holder on the upper is for a banana. Really. Goes with the Banana Clip. Doesn't your AR have a tactical banana holders? I understand they were popular at Stone Mountain for Un-PC reasons.

View attachment 7371220

Naturally, a California-legal thumbhole stock, painted to look like an urban brick wall and littered with graffiti. Isn't that fitting??? Oh Joe.... Say it ain't so!


View attachment 7371221

Because it's a .410 shotgun upper, it is perfect for Perv-Joe's advice to "just shoot two shots in the air" if you need to get rid of CornPop. Noone needs an AR-15. That's why this is an AR-14!

View attachment 7371222

Kind of bringing it all together...

View attachment 7371226

Some stock detail...

View attachment 7371227

Sniff U? Boowah ha hha hah aa.....

View attachment 7371228

Look, Glitter, Unicorns and a banana clip!

View attachment 7371229

Other side of the stock... U Ain't Black!!!

And that's all she wrote! Just need a couple more little details and it can go on display with my Trump AR.

Cheers,

Sirhr
One of a kind. Guaranteed to increase in value. And, the owner is a member, so you can pm him an offer. This is the only gun YOU need...
 

Mischievous

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Jul 30, 2020
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View attachment 7394464

Heavy, long, high recoil, slow reloads, plus a new platform to learn

No way. Shotguns should be left in the trash heap of arms history

Weight? Change out the magazine tube for carbon fiber, put scalar sync with Trijicon SRO and Scout 600 light on it. It swings with ease. With Hornady Critical Defense slugs, need only one shot (of 8 shells) to stop an intruder. ☠ Have 7 left as backup. , It's really the simplest most effective weapon for home defense. I definitely love mine. But that's why everyone has many many options.

Ask the Scottsdale AZ homeowner who recently had a naked intruder in his young daughter's room. It just took one shot to "eliminate" the threat. 💀 Society won't ever have to worry about the intruder as a repeat offender.

IMG_3911.jpeg
 

houndog

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Guys, I'm from originally from NY, lived in MA for 35 years and then moved back to NY for one year before coming here. It's all relative. In MA I was lucky to have purchased AR's, AK's, FAL, etc before our AG decided that even rifles that were AWB compliant and had been legal to purchase in MA were now illegal (although she did agree not to prosecute those of us already in possession of these "illegal" guns). Moved to NY and all my semi-autos, as well as half a dozen pistols, went into storage. It would have been illegal for me to transport them into NY. Can't even buy ammo on line in NY or MA. So CO is a paradise compared to what I'm used to - particularly since I live in a rural part of the state.

1911addict - this forum is really a great place to learn about optics, so you will get a ton of info here. A lot of the guys compete in PRS, do a bunch of long range shooting or have real world experience, so they can give you good advice on what to look for and what scopes hold up to heavy use/abuse. Unfortunately, you generally get what you pay for and a $500<$1000<$3000 scope. Some of it will also come down to personal preference and your intended use, particularly with respect to magnification, weight, and choice of reticle.
 

pmclaine

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@1911addict42

Judging by your other thread you have a lot to learn about freedom and the US Constitution.

I am glad you are making these "investments".

I hope now that you are participating, even if for the wrong reasons, it will be a step toward your enlightenment and you will become not only a superficial "supporter of the moment" but a died in the wool patriot to your core.

Im guessing you were surprised and offended to learn about things like "10 day waiting periods" or "Approved" lists should you live in areas with such infringements.
 

1911addict42

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@1911addict42

Judging by your other thread you have a lot to learn about freedom and the US Constitution.

I am glad you are making these "investments".

I hope now that you are participating, even if for the wrong reasons, it will be a step toward your enlightenment and you will become not only a superficial "supporter of the moment" but a died in the wool patriot to your core.

Im guessing you were surprised and offended to learn about things like "10 day waiting periods" or "Approved" lists should you live in areas with such infringements.
I’ll assume your posts to me are well intentioned- what I will say is that you seem to think your perspective of “how things should work” is the reality. You may be in for a rude awakening over the coming years. Much like the lefties were when they mocked Trump all the way until his victory in 2016.
 
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wisey113

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+1 on PWS. I have 2 of their Mk2 Mod 1 rifles in 6.5 and 308 and both are phenomenal guns.

If you're trying to hoard high end rifles, I feel like the SR-25 has to be high on your list. To me it feels like the poster child for a high end rifle (I'm talking purely from a perception point of view). I'd also put the scar 20 on that list (in 6.5 creedmoor). Again, I'm not advocating that they're better rifles than the Seekins or the JP, I'm simply saying that as far as "mainstream" perception goes of high-end rifles, those 2 strike me as must haves.
 
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1911addict42

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+1 on PWS. I have 2 of their Mk2 Mod 1 rifles in 6.5 and 308 and both are phenomenal guns.

If you're trying to hoard high end rifles, I feel like the SR-25 has to be high on your list. To me it feels like the poster child for a high end rifle (I'm talking purely from a perception point of view). I'd also put the scar 20 on that list (in 6.5 creedmoor). Again, I'm not advocating that they're better rifles than the Seekins or the JP, I'm simply saying that as far as "mainstream" perception goes of high-end rifles, those 2 strike me as must haves.
After some of the feedback I've gotten recently, I’ve actually been leaning much more towards 5.56 and .300 blackout for practical purposes... other than hunting and long range practice it seems there’s very few scenarios where the .308 seems to have a use. Make sense?
 

wisey113

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Makes sense to me. In that case, the Radian you bought was a solid move. Did they give you an ETA on when it would be built / shipped? Last I read their website said like 16 weeks or something.
 

1911addict42

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Makes sense to me. In that case, the Radian you bought was a solid move. Did they give you an ETA on when it would be built / shipped? Last I read their website said like 16 weeks or something.
Yes they said 16 weeks, wouldn’t surprise me if it was more.
Ive been eyeing those V-Seven rifles, their lightweight is pretty amazing... owner has credibility but tough to go for it with very little info out there on it
 

1911addict42

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Makes sense to me. In that case, the Radian you bought was a solid move. Did they give you an ETA on when it would be built / shipped? Last I read their website said like 16 weeks or something.
Rainier and Omaha outdoors have some PWS in 300 and 5.56/223 that have been sitting there for awhile.
I’ve been wondering why, since the feedback I’ve seen has been very positive. Sometimes I think of getting one, but I’m unsure. I did just buy a DD PDW, safer bet, but I’m always looking for more.
 

Tactical trashcan

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May 17, 2020
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There’s plenty of use for a .308 and 6.5 creedmoor, ha ha. Namely more guns is more fun😉! But for shorter ranges and personnel defense the 300 blackout is plenty of stopping power and the 5.56 defeats up to level 3 armor. A 300 blk pistol is an awsome home defense weapon. You can get an 8-9 inch barrel and not sacrifice muzzle velocity and burn all the powder behind the bullet so there’s no huge muzzle flash like a short barreled 5.56. If you can which is doubtful, get some Barnes TacTx 300 blk ammo, it is probably the best bullet you can get in that caliber to date. But as far as the SR25 I agree with Wisey113, it’s like a unicorn, an almost mythical status. If money was no object I would have one in the safe just for the sake of saying I have one, even if there are better rifles. Just for size reference here is a SCAR 17, Tavor SAR, and a 300 blk pistol, add a law tactical folding stock adapter to the pistol and it is even more portable.
 

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1911addict42

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There’s plenty of use for a .308 and 6.5 creedmoor, ha ha. Namely more guns is more fun😉! But for shorter ranges and personnel defense the 300 blackout is plenty of stopping power and the 5.56 defeats up to level 3 armor. A 300 blk pistol is an awsome home defense weapon. You can get an 8-9 inch barrel and not sacrifice muzzle velocity and burn all the powder behind the bullet so there’s no huge muzzle flash like a short barreled 5.56. If you can which is doubtful, get some Barnes TacTx 300 blk ammo, it is probably the best bullet you can get in that caliber to date. But as far as the SR25 I agree with Wisey113, it’s like a unicorn, an almost mythical status. If money was no object I would have one in the safe just for the sake of saying I have one, even if there are better rifles. Just for size reference here is a SCAR 17, Tavor SAR, and a 300 blk pistol, add a law tactical folding stock adapter to the pistol and it is even more portable.
Looks like youve got some great stuff!
I think for my purposes I’d rather 2 KAC SR-15, but I’m not against the idea... maybe.
I’ve enjoyed my .300, I’m looking at the Radian 300 blackout. I’ve actually decided to change my Wilson Ranger .308 builds to 300 for these reasons.
Tavor looks great! The Tavor 7 also really badass, but where the hell am I gonna shoot that thing?
 
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Tactical trashcan

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Not trying to sway you, just letting you know an SR25 is a rare firearm that is sought after, thats all. Wanted you to see the actual size difference between the SCAR 17 and 300 blk pistol. It is something much more manageable in size for a younger person to use than a scar. A younger child cannot hold up all that weight that far out from their little bodies. It would be wise to put a hand stop or angled foregrip on something that short as well so no digits make it out past that hand guard and into the way of the muzzle.
 

1911addict42

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Not trying to sway you, just letting you know an SR25 is a rare firearm that is sought after, thats all. Wanted you to see the actual size difference between the SCAR 17 and 300 blk pistol. It is something much more manageable in size for a younger person to use than a scar. A younger child cannot hold up all that weight that far out from their little bodies. It would be wise to put a hand stop or angled foregrip on something that short as well so no digits make it out past that hand guard and into the way of the muzzle.
Good suggestion. I've been getting a few .22 rifle/pistols for the little guys and cheap traning.
 

houndog

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So, I've got a couple more comments.

.308 semi-auto - Have a couple and honestly don't shoot them all that much. Recoil is stiffer. Ammo is more expensive. And if you are shooting offhand or actually carrying it, they can get heavy pretty fast. Plus, if you have at least a 16" barrel a .223/5.56 round should really get you out to 400+ yards. Beyond that, you'd probably be better served with a decent bolt action rifle. It will generally be more accurate and easier to shoot accurately. And at 400-1000 yards you presumably won't be doing a lot of rapid fire shooting.

As far as caliber - the 6.5 CM round is clearly superior to the .308. It has less recoil, which can be pretty important when you want to see where your shots are hitting. I have both a 6.5CM and a .308 rifle and it's definitely easier to see my misses at long yardage with the 6.5. Also, the 6.5 bullet has better ballistics. It drops less and is less affected by the wind. However, if you are looking for a SHTF rifle I'd still go with a .308. The 6.5's better ballistics don't really come into play until you get out to about 600 yards - and in a home defense/SHTF situation it's really hard to imagine that you're going to be taking a lot of 800 yard shots. Also, ammo is cheaper and you will get a lot better barrel life out of a .308.

Also, your idea of getting a couple of .22's is a good one. Great way to train the kids/wife, and a good way for you to practice with really cheap ammo. For rifle's I would highly recommend the CZ line of bolt action rifles. They are pretty cheap, reliable, and surprisingly accurate.

Also, since you're a 1911 addict, Marvel Precision makes an outstanding .22 conversion unit for 1911's. Pretty easy to install on an existing 1911 frame and superbly accurate. Again a really good way to train with cheap ammo. Only downside is Marvel's can be a little picky about what ammo you use. But once you find a brand that it likes you are GTG. I think they run about $500.
 

TheOE800

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Looks like youve
I think for my purposes I’d rather 2 KAC SR-15, but I’m not against the idea... maybe.
I’ve enjoyed my .300, I’m looking at the Radian 300 blackout. I’ve actually decided to change my Wilson Ranger .308 builds to 300 for these reasons.
Tavor looks great! The Tavor 7 also really badass, but where the hell am I gonna shoot that thing?
I’m currently in process of getting his and hers SR-15 rifles. Maybe one day she’ll appreciate it.
 

Mischievous

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Scottsdale, AZ
Weight? Change out the magazine tube for carbon fiber, put scalar sync with Trijicon SRO and Scout 600 light on it. It swings with ease. With Hornady Critical Defense slugs, need only one shot (of 8 shells) to stop an intruder. ☠ Have 7 left as backup. , It's really the simplest most effective weapon for home defense. I definitely love mine. But that's why everyone has many many options.

Ask the Scottsdale AZ homeowner who recently had a naked intruder in his young daughter's room. It just took one shot to "eliminate" the threat. 💀 Society won't ever have to worry about the intruder as a repeat offender.

View attachment 7394520

Took a defensive shotgun course today. Love my Benelli M4 with CF magazine and Trijicon SRO even that much more. The gun (more than me) allowed me to shoot as good as the instructor.

Also got a chance to shoot a Panzer Arms BP-12 Bullpup Shotgun 12ga. Wow. Great 10+1 Bullpup for the dollar. Got home and ordered one for $578 with 2 extra 10 round mags (comes with two 5 shell mags). Turkey makes some great guns, even though their government is oppressive.
 

1911addict42

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So, I've got a couple more comments.

.308 semi-auto - Have a couple and honestly don't shoot them all that much. Recoil is stiffer. Ammo is more expensive. And if you are shooting offhand or actually carrying it, they can get heavy pretty fast. Plus, if you have at least a 16" barrel a .223/5.56 round should really get you out to 400+ yards. Beyond that, you'd probably be better served with a decent bolt action rifle. It will generally be more accurate and easier to shoot accurately. And at 400-1000 yards you presumably won't be doing a lot of rapid fire shooting.

As far as caliber - the 6.5 CM round is clearly superior to the .308. It has less recoil, which can be pretty important when you want to see where your shots are hitting. I have both a 6.5CM and a .308 rifle and it's definitely easier to see my misses at long yardage with the 6.5. Also, the 6.5 bullet has better ballistics. It drops less and is less affected by the wind. However, if you are looking for a SHTF rifle I'd still go with a .308. The 6.5's better ballistics don't really come into play until you get out to about 600 yards - and in a home defense/SHTF situation it's really hard to imagine that you're going to be taking a lot of 800 yard shots. Also, ammo is cheaper and you will get a lot better barrel life out of a .308.

Also, your idea of getting a couple of .22's is a good one. Great way to train the kids/wife, and a good way for you to practice with really cheap ammo. For rifle's I would highly recommend the CZ line of bolt action rifles. They are pretty cheap, reliable, and surprisingly accurate.

Also, since you're a 1911 addict, Marvel Precision makes an outstanding .22 conversion unit for 1911's. Pretty easy to install on an existing 1911 frame and superbly accurate. Again a really good way to train with cheap ammo. Only downside is Marvel's can be a little picky about what ammo you use. But once you find a brand that it likes you are GTG. I think they run about $500.
Thank you sir! Excellent info here
 

1911addict42

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Took a defensive shotgun course today. Love my Benelli M4 with CF magazine and Trijicon SRO even that much more. The gun (more than me) allowed me to shoot as good as the instructor.

Also got a chance to shoot a Panzer Arms BP-12 Bullpup Shotgun 12ga. Wow. Great 10+1 Bullpup for the dollar. Got home and ordered one for $578 with 2 extra 10 round mags (comes with two 5 shell mags). Turkey makes some great guns, even though their government is oppressive.
What is a CF magazine? The Tavor TS12 also looks like a really cool bullpup
 

1911addict42

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To those that own the Tavor and B&T APC ... are those parts proprietary, or are they easily replaced?
I’m very interested in those, but don’t want to lock myself into a box. It’s gotta be easy to get spare parts...
Thanks
 

wisey113

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To those that own the Tavor and B&T APC ... are those parts proprietary, or are they easily replaced?
I’m very interested in those, but don’t want to lock myself into a box. It’s gotta be easy to get spare parts...
Thanks
I own a B&T and the parts as far as I can tell are proprietary. However sites like bt-parts and hk-parts carry B&T parts for a variety of their guns. Parts won't be as readily available and interchangeable like the AR platform though.
 

1911addict42

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I own a B&T and the parts as far as I can tell are proprietary. However sites like bt-parts and hk-parts carry B&T parts for a variety of their guns. Parts won't be as readily available and interchangeable like the AR platform though.
The B&T looks very sweet. That said, I think I’ll start with a JP GMR-15 and buy American.
 

theLBC

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don't forget the other stuff you'll need, besides the rifles and ammo.
although i don't see them being made illegal to own, it you'll need a range finder and that sort of thing, if you intend to be useful outside a range setting with known distance to targets. heck, the range i went to last had a long firing line, so the distance could be 40yds different from one end to the other if the targets aren't in the center of the range. if you want to develop good dope for all your LR capable rifles, you'll want to know exact distances (or close) jmo.
 

1911addict42

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don't forget the other stuff you'll need, besides the rifles and ammo.
although i don't see them being made illegal to own, it you'll need a range finder and that sort of thing, if you intend to be useful outside a range setting with known distance to targets. heck, the range i went to last had a long firing line, so the distance could be 40yds different from one end to the other if the targets aren't in the center of the range. if you want to develop good dope for all your LR capable rifles, you'll want to know exact distances (or close) jmo.
This is a very expensive endeavor. Ammo and good optics were a lot more expensive than I anticipated.
most of my training will be revolving around CQB.
but will keep that in mind for LR
 
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theLBC

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This is a very expensive endeavor. Ammo and good optics were a lot more expensive than I anticipated.
most of my training will be revolving around CQB.
but will keep that in mind for LR
oh believe me i know, and i am one of the hated "poors" around here that only has one centerfire rifle made after i was born.and can't even afford night vision. my night vision is a surefire light and laser. fuck it, that's as tacticool as i got duckets for. i really wanted one of those steiner dbal IR units so i would look operator AF, but then even i couldn't figure out a way to rationalize the cost when i had no IR shit to see it, lol.
 
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theLBC

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oh and i apologize for my generous use of expletives in these forums.
i don't normally have a potty mouth but i think frustration builds from moderated forums that don't allow words like **** and **** or ************, and so it spills out here.
 

houndog

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1911Addict - I hear you about the costs. This forum is very good at spending other people's money.

With respect to optics there are ways to save money without having to buy "cheap" scopes. And if most of your shooting will be under 100 yards you really don't need the spectacularly good (and spectacularly expensive) glass that guys regularly shooting out to 800 or 1000 yards want.

For example, SWFA makes a 1x4 scope that would work great for your intended uses. It is rugged and well made and the glass is more than adequate for making hits out to 2-300 yards. Is it as good as a Schmidt and Bender or a Nightforce scope? Nope. Those scopes will have clearer optics and are built like tanks. But they are also a lot more money.

Similarly, Primary Arms makes an inexpensive but solid red dot scope that more than gets the job done for any CQB shooting you might do. Is it as rugged as an Aimpoint? No. Is the glass as good? Again, no. But it is also not a cheap scope that will break after a couple of hundred rounds and as long as you're not planning to jump out of planes with it should hold up to normal use.
 
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tuckybill

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The 308 has one big advantage over the others, it can stop a vehicle much better than the others your looking at. I have a rich uncle that is buying more 308 rifles for his troops also, so ammo might be easier to find in a "troubled time".
 
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