help sighting in rifle.

[HDrusty]

Ill try to keep this as short as possible...
I have a Remington 700 .308 (SPS Varmint). When the gun was brand new I was shooting sub MOA groups at 200 yards (my range does not have a further backstop). I took the gun out again for hunting season and at 100 yards would shoot sub MOA groups, but at 200 years my elevation gets all screwed up. It will generally shoot high but without any consistency as to how high. Sometimes 4" sometimes 7". I am shooting Hornady American whitetail 150 grain.

today I went out to shoot at the 200 yard backstop right off the bat. first 3 on top of each other, next 27 not so much... I was shooting off of one of those "matrix" adjustable gun rests with a towel underneath the stock so it would not be resting on the rock hard front rest. I took the gun off the rest and put the stock on a wooden rest on the bench again with a folded towel under the stock and put 8 shots in tight groups at 100 yards.

What is making this thing so wonky at 200 yards? My first thought is that the rest I am using is consistently moving in different ways after the shot due to recoil and its overall cheap construction. do you guys think this is enough to cause my issues? My other thought was the scope mount being loose but it is on there tight without any play.

I am in a hurry to sort this out because I am running out or range days before I leave for a hunting trip. Its shooting good enough for the type of hunting I will be doing, but not as good as it should be shooting. Maybe I should go back to shooting off of a bi-pod with a beanbag sock under the butt.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

I do all my sighting in and load testing off a bipod and generally use a rear bag. Squeezing or loosening the bag takes care of consistent elevation. It certainly sounds like your rest is the problem.

FH

 

[shovelstrokeed]

A flimsy front rest will surely play hell with your groups and lead to vertical strings like you describe.
In addition, non-optimum rear support and you have a no group situation.

You did not tell us how you are going from 100 to 200, dial in the scope? If so how much. Holdover? If so, how much?

I understand your anxiety to get ready for the hunt but, you really can't hurry the process. Settle on 100 yards and get the rifle dead nuts.
Now move to 200 and see what your dial in should be. Set that as close as you can on the scope in milli rad or moa and then shoot a solid group.
See where POI goes. On a properly installed scope, so long as wind does not change, you should only be seeing elevation changes.
4 - 7" variation in eleveation, to me, points to the shooter, not the gun.

Do go back to the bipod and bean bag. That will give you a lot better (more stable) support. Work on properly loading the bipod, getting the gun into the same point on your shoulder, cheek weld in the same position, all with no strain on the body. When you can shut your eyes, relax for a couple of breaths, and open your eyes to the same sight picture, you are getting close.

I'm a returning shooter and have had to relearn all that to even begin to get good groups at 100 and just walking out to 200 where it is twice as hard. I expect to get to 500 in the next couple of months, work and ammo supplies permitting.

 

[79jeepcj5]

I believe you answered your own question with your last sentence. Try shooting at 200 in positions you'll likely encounter on your hunting trip and concentrate on the fundamentals. Reloads or factory ammo?

 

[JSTARSZ]

there could be all kinds of things going on here so let me just put a couple of things - are you dialing 2 MOA for the change to 200 and if so when you dial back to 100 what does it do? Could it be the scope having issues? How fast are you shooting these 30 rounds and how hot does your barrel get during the string; that will also get your groups moving but 7" is very excessive. I also don't zero my rifles with anything other than a bipod and rear bag. I hate those other contraptions that are supposed to help but never do for me. You say everything is tight - did you torque them or hand tight them - rings 15-18ft/lbs, rings to base 65 ft/lbs.

My advice is to start to narrow out some of the issues starting with the getting on the ground with the bipod and rear bag and then box test the scope at 100 - go up 10MOA/Right 10 MOA/down 10 MOA and left 10MOA and where does that bring you back to...if the same spot is isn't the optic.

 

[HDrusty]

Thanks for the input guys. When you are shooting off of a bipod on a bench do you worry about getting muzzle bounce from not having something soft under the bipod? or do the rubber feet compensate enough for this?

I used a torque wrench and lock-tight with the base. No lock-tight on the rings however each ring has 6 screws and all are still tight as the day I installed it. The scope is nothing special. It was a Burris full-field II. It wasn't my first choice for scopes but it was on sale (way on sale) and it filled the need for the times being.

my plan was to zero the gun in at 200 as that would be the farthest shot I would be taking for this trip, however after my 30 rounds of crap zeroed the scope in at 100 without an issue (and without using that rest I was talking about). Ill use the hash marks on the reticle for hold over until I can lay down some real coin on a high end scope with a mil dot.

I have also just gotten back into rifle shooting this year. I had a lot of time and money sunk into a Remington 700 PSS .300WM that I sold before going to college years ago (wish I didn't). I had some spare change laying around this year and picked up this rifle for a good price (they also just started to allow Rifle in upstate NY). Low and behold I got invited to a white tail hunt down south this January so that was a little extra incentive.

 

[JBM_DC]

Ill try to keep this as short as possible...
I have a Remington 700 .308 (SPS Varmint). When the gun was brand new I was shooting sub MOA groups at 200 yards (my range does not have a further backstop). I took the gun out again for hunting season and at 100 yards would shoot sub MOA groups, but at 200 years my elevation gets all screwed up. It will generally shoot high but without any consistency as to how high. Sometimes 4" sometimes 7". I am shooting Hornady American whitetail 150 grain.

today I went out to shoot at the 200 yard backstop right off the bat. first 3 on top of each other, next 27 not so much... I was shooting off of one of those "matrix" adjustable gun rests with a towel underneath the stock so it would not be resting on the rock hard front rest. I took the gun off the rest and put the stock on a wooden rest on the bench again with a folded towel under the stock and put 8 shots in tight groups at 100 yards.

What is making this thing so wonky at 200 yards? My first thought is that the rest I am using is consistently moving in different ways after the shot due to recoil and its overall cheap construction. do you guys think this is enough to cause my issues? My other thought was the scope mount being loose but it is on there tight without any play.

I am in a hurry to sort this out because I am running out or range days before I leave for a hunting trip. Its shooting good enough for the type of hunting I will be doing, but not as good as it should be shooting. Maybe I should go back to shooting off of a bi-pod with a beanbag sock under the butt.

Not sure if this will help or not, but I too had this same problem with one of my rifles. What I found out was that the forward of the two rings was machined wrong and gave too much side to side play when mounted on the base. One of the sides was missing as much as 1mm and was unable to grab the base at all. When I would shoot at 100 yards I could group decently (or I thought it was acceptable). Shooting at 200 yards my groups were inconsistent and frustrated the hell out of me especially since I was working on load development. After I realized there was a problem with one of my rings I quickly contacted the manufacture and exchanged mine with a new set. Now the rifle is averaging .5 MOA or better to 300 yards. I will not say the name of the manufacture because they made things right, and it would be the end of the world to most on here if they made one bad item...

Just make sure to check that everything is torqued down properly.

 

[HDrusty]

I am always uber paranoid about my rings and base because I went through the heartache of having a lose base mess up a trip. That was obviously loose as I could yank it around and get it to shift. This one seems as tight as it was when I installed it however I guess you never know. It has shot tight groups at one point so I am hoping the issue is with the new rest I brought out this time.

Oh... and it was 25 degrees out today when I was shooting and I was giving the barrel plenty of time to cool down. Of course its garbage weather in upstate NY as I am trying to get this thing sorted out before my trip. and I know someone here will groan me about waiting this long to do it but there I was having issues with finding more than 2 boxes of the same ammo to sight in with up until a few weeks ago.

 

[George63]

sounds like it could be parallax issues

 

[Goatman007]

Variable scope? Turn down the power to 3 or 4X. When I try to shoot tight at close range, I turn the power down, don't know why it helps but it does.

 

[lucaslarso]

Take the rest out of the equation, give that a shot

 

[HDrusty]

thanks guys. as soon as I cant get away from work I plan on heading over to the range to see whats going on.

 

[Goatman007]

JSTARZ, You wouldn't happen to be from the 966AWAC wing out of Tinker AFB, would you? If so, PM me, would you?

 

[HDrusty]

After 20 rounds through the gun I was able to get a group of 5 with in 2" at 100 yards. 200 hard target still looks like a shot gun pattern. They would all be dead deer but no where near the guns capability. I was using a Bench, bipod, and rear bag. Plenty of time between shots to keep the barrel from getting hot. Not sure if it's to ammo, if I have a copper build up, or if I should have the scope remounted. I wish I had brought a box of match king out with me...