help with shooting

[etaf]

i am trying to figure out what i need to do differently and i am hoping you guys can help. my rifle is an LR-308 style rifle. the barrel is somewhat short (16" + miculek muzzle brake). at the moment i only have access to a 100m indoor range so this will be in the context of bench shooting. i use a falcon menace 4-14x44 scope. i am currently shooting prvi partizan 168gr ammo.

the way i shoot is as follows:

1. adjust the focus to remove parallax
2. set the bipod lock so that it's tight enough to hold the rifle at whatever angle i set it at while still allowing me to rotate it
3. i don't have a rear shooting bag yet so i just kind of make a fist and put it under the stock
4. pull the rifle into my shoulder with it intentionally not level
5. rotate it clockwise until top of the elevation turret appears level with the ground. in addition to removing the cant this is also to tighten up the tolerances in the rifle to try to make it as consistent as possible with each shot.
6. load the bipod
7. aim
8. take three breaths and hold on the third
9. fire


right now i am only shooting 100m. my groupings horizontally are actually pretty decent. often they are moa. in the vertical direction, i pretty much always have two shots close together and then the third is like two to three inches above or below. it seems to me like i am having some trouble with the muzzle jumping. i'm thinking this could be something that a rear shooting bag would help with.

do you guys have any thoughts? thanks in advance.

the one on top:
my rifles

 

[308zone]

Re: help with shooting

Out of the box DPMS LRs are not top shelf shooters to begin with. With that said, invest in that rear bag, good ammo, and take it out as often as you can. Vertical movement can be an indicator for bad breathing control or maybe round anticipation ect.

For what it’s worth, I’m not a fan of holding my breath to squeeze a round off. There are many schools of thought on this but I use the natural pause at the bottom of a breathing cycle. There’s a lot of good information out there on this topic. Use what works best for you.

Welcome to the Hide.

 

[B3dlam]

Re: help with shooting

Driving a precision AR can be difficult for new shooters or thoose used to Bolt guns. The recoil impluse is more complicated with the AR. To shoot the AR effectively you want to make sure you are practicing your follow through. After you pull the trigger hold it to the rear and keep it pressed there until your sights are back on target and the recoil is complete. Then release the trigger you should hear your sear engage at this point. Also watch your breathing control and ensure you arent anticipating the recoil. Like was mentioned bye 308zone you want to make sure you breath at the bottom of your breathing cycle.

One other huge thing is to ensure you find your Natural Point of Aim. To do this get your rifle on target then close your eyes and take a few deep breaths and releax. When you open your eyes your sights shouldnt require any movement to get them back on target. If your sights require movement you need to reposition your body not just the gun then go through the process again until your sights stay on target after you take a few deep breaths with your eyes closed.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: help with shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: etaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i am trying to figure out what i need to do differently and i am hoping you guys can help. my rifle is an LR-308 style rifle. the barrel is somewhat short (16" + miculek muzzle brake). at the moment i only have access to a 100m indoor range so this will be in the context of bench shooting. i use a falcon menace 4-14x44 scope. i am currently shooting prvi partizan 168gr ammo.

the way i shoot is as follows:

1. adjust the focus to remove parallax
2. set the bipod lock so that it's tight enough to hold the rifle at whatever angle i set it at while still allowing me to rotate it
3. i don't have a rear shooting bag yet so i just kind of make a fist and put it under the stock
4. pull the rifle into my shoulder with it intentionally not level
5. rotate it clockwise until top of the elevation turret appears level with the ground. in addition to removing the cant this is also to tighten up the tolerances in the rifle to try to make it as consistent as possible with each shot.
6. load the bipod
7. aim
8. take three breaths and hold on the third
9. fire
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-size: 14pt">10. FOLLOW THROUGH!</span></span></span>


right now i am only shooting 100m. my groupings horizontally are actually pretty decent. often they are moa. in the vertical direction, i pretty much always have two shots close together and then the third is like two to three inches above or below. it seems to me like i am having some trouble with the muzzle jumping. i'm thinking this could be something that a rear shooting bag would help with.

do you guys have any thoughts? thanks in advance.

the one on top:
my rifles </div></div>There's what you're missing.

 

[etaf]

Re: help with shooting

Thank you guys. Great inputs! You're right. I do have problems anticipating the recoil. Also, I don't think I've been following through. The worst shot is usually the third one so part of this is probably mental. Next time I place an order ill get a rear bag (I can never seem to find them in stores). I'll give these things a try when I can and let you know how it turns out. Thanks again!

 

[Redmanss]

Re: help with shooting

Anticipation of the recoil isn't something that a rear bag will help. That only helps you steady the placement of your sights/crosshair on the target. What you need to do is dry fire, and a lot of it. Practice the slow, steady squeeze on the trigger. Don't think about the shot and recoil, think about where your sights are placed on the target. When the shot fires, continue the application of the fundamentals through the shot being fired. Continue sighting in, holding your breath and squeezing the trigger for at least a full second or two after the shot has fired. You have to exaggerate it to build the skills into your methods.

The one piece of equipment that may help you is a better trigger. I prefer a two stage trigger such as the Geissele SSA-E for a crisp and light break.

Read in depth on the fundamentals of marksmanship, and best of all have a coach with you on the firing line. Even taking video of yourself can help. If you see your shooting eye flinch or blink when you fire the shot, you're anticipating.

 

[kevinjs1]

Re: help with shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: etaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i am trying to figure out what i need to do differently and i am hoping you guys can help. my rifle is an LR-308 style rifle. the barrel is somewhat short (16" + miculek muzzle brake). at the moment i only have access to a 100m indoor range so this will be in the context of bench shooting. i use a falcon menace 4-14x44 scope. i am currently shooting prvi partizan 168gr ammo.

the way i shoot is as follows:

1. adjust the focus to remove parallax
2. set the bipod lock so that it's tight enough to hold the rifle at whatever angle i set it at while still allowing me to rotate it
3. i don't have a rear shooting bag yet so i just kind of make a fist and put it under the stock
4. pull the rifle into my shoulder with it intentionally not level
5. rotate it clockwise until top of the elevation turret appears level with the ground. in addition to removing the cant this is also to tighten up the tolerances in the rifle to try to make it as consistent as possible with each shot.
6. load the bipod
7. aim
8. take three breaths and hold on the third
9. fire
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-size: 14pt">10. FOLLOW THROUGH!</span></span></span>


right now i am only shooting 100m. my groupings horizontally are actually pretty decent. often they are moa. in the vertical direction, i pretty much always have two shots close together and then the third is like two to three inches above or below. it seems to me like i am having some trouble with the muzzle jumping. i'm thinking this could be something that a rear shooting bag would help with.

do you guys have any thoughts? thanks in advance.

the one on top:
my rifles </div></div>There's what you're missing. </div></div>

This was my first assessment of what was missing from your list.

I used to have this problem a lot and when it was pointed out to me the I didn't follow through it really made a difference.

Good luck.

 

[limamike56]

Re: help with shooting

You are not at all alone in this. I shot bolt guns and 5.56 carbine length rifles for the last 30 plus years and considered myselt a better than average shot.

A while back I started getting into precision semi-auto rifles and had problems at first getting groups less than 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards. The issues became more apparent at greater distance. It wasn't the rifle it was my failure to understand and adapt to shooting a precision semi auto.

What has been said in the above posts is great advice. Once I started doing these things my groups began tighting up. On my last trip to the range my groups were sub-moa with an LMT MWS in 16 barrel all the way out to 500 yards. Good luck.

 

[etaf]

Re: help with shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The one piece of equipment that may help you is a better trigger. I prefer a two stage trigger such as the Geissele SSA-E for a crisp and light break.
</div></div>
i forgot to mention that i have that trigger! it has helped. i love it.

i'll try practicing the sequence without actually firing. i will also focus on holding the trigger and reacquiring the target after the shot. now i'm anxious to get back to the range!

 

[etaf]

Re: help with shooting

so i'm working on making a rear shooting bag. i had some black cloth and i bought some air soft bb's. i think it might be too packed right now but i don't want to cut the stitching open to remove anything until after i try it out.

the goal is to eventually make it so i can attach it to the rear stock. it loosely follows the shape of it. i was going to use velcro but velcro is loud when you take it off. i'd like whatever i use to be silent or close to it. i'm thinking about just using paracord to tie it er somethin.

 

[JoshcBoucher]

Re: help with shooting

I agree with all the above, with a "little more " emphasis, on the Ammo. I buy the cheap stuff, for the brass, then hand load, for the "good stuff". I've never gotten good groups with the "cheap stuff", which is why I hand load. Cheap AND good. It's also a nice hobby for those rainy days.

 

[sidewaysil80]

Re: help with shooting

This is a great read on setting up your scope btw, I only say this because you mentioned parallax at 100 yards...
http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Parallax.asp#SetUp

Just like others have mentioned, dry fire! Just use a slow steady squeeze, enough to when the gun fires it should "surprise" you. I can't really weigh in the breathing stuff as all of my knowledge comes from eight years in the USMC, so I'm not versed in other techniques. But we are taught (and works great for me) is use your respiratory pause. Take a deep breath and exhale, that tiny pause right before you inhale again is when I shoot. If I miss it, simply breathe in and exhale again. The most difficult part for me is sometimes to this day I catch myself holding my breathe prior to inhaling, which obviously defeats the purpose.

 

[exhogflyer]

Re: help with shooting

Couple of things here:
You're having verticle stringing of shots,a few things cause that....
Variations in ammo velocity, and that ammo you're using isn't match grade
Breathing: try letting off your shot when you've exhaled, be like
dead meat behind the weapon

 

[etaf]

Re: help with shooting

i'll eventually buy better ammo but right now i feel like both the ammo and rifle are better than i am. i'm hopin i can make some improvements with what i have. some reviews online claim good results (better than what i'm shooting at least).


great read on optics. i'm gonna re-read it thursday night as i plan on hittin up the range friday.


i definitely need to work on my breathing. i'm thinkin that having the rear squeeze bag will help with that. Exhogflyer, i'm from "Near Albany, NY" by the way. home of uncle sam. small world...

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: help with shooting

Exhog... were you by chance one of the Boys from Syracuse? I remember watching them fly over the house as a kid before they went to the 16(s). Have a great pic of an A-10 flying formation with a P-51 somewhere.

etaf, take a sock and put some corn in it for now for a rear bag. Nothing hi-tech about it.

 

[etaf]

here is my field report after making the suggested changes...

the before picture illustrates the issue i was having. it's not necessarily my best or worst grouping from that day which was before i asked you guys for help but it shows how i seemed to consistently have one shot that didn't cooperate.

before
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...AAAAAADc/mzq81ZBgwtI/s826/grouping+before.jpg

after
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...AAAAAAADY/_sby8MfSMvo/s826/grouping+after.jpg

the after picture was my last and best round for the day. it's not quite moa grouping but i think i'll get there with practice. i used the bean bag i made and the advice that everyone gave. i'm going to invest in some snap caps for dry firing at home. thanks again for the help everyone.