High End Reloading Equipment

TSparger

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So I know this question will bring a plethora of different responses but I want to get other opinions before I venture down the road of buying the following high end equipment and spending a lot of hard earned money. First I should preface this question with the fact that I'm the kind of person that usually goes for the high end on my initial purchases just because I enjoy quality. I'm actually pondering the purchase of a Vudoo 22 rifle right now but there are also some reloading purchases that I'm contemplating. I'm also wondering if there's an alternate route that saves me some money but would still achieve my reloading goals. So there are three pieces of equipment that I'm contemplating the purchase of and they include the Area 419 Zero press, AMP Annealer and the AutoTricker V4 with FX-120i scale. I've been reloading for several years on an RCBS Rockchucker and the Hornady APS progressive press (for pistol). My reloading goals are two fold. First to increase my productivity when reloading my rifle ammo by speeding up the process without sacrificing quality and my second goal would be to maintain enough accuracy (1/2 MOA or better) in my reloads to shoot long range competitions such as PRS. I'm shooting a MPA PMR Pro rifle in 6.5 CM right now. The alternates to the AutoTrickler that I think could save me some money and still achieve my goals is to add another RCBS Chargemaster 1500 or Chargemaster Lite (maybe two of these) to my existing Chargemaster 1500. Also wondering if one of the alternate annealers would do the trick for annealing.
 
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Ruff 364

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    As someone who has spent a good deal of money trying to take the cheaper route I finally decided about ten years ago that I would no longer do so. I buy quality equipment and am confident in that decision. Examples:

    I messed around for years with a LE Wilson trimmer before buying a Henderson. Night/day difference in speed for sure but not quality. The Wilson was exact, but SLOW as fuck. Henderson is exact AND fast. Wilson will be sold. Some people balk at the cost of something like the Henderson. Use it once, and you'll never use anything else.

    Shot a Ruger 10/22 in NRL22 since the inception. Built a rack of them in fact. Settled on a TacSol reciever, KIDD barrel and trigger in a Victory company stock with high end optics. For what it was, it was accurate. I still had first round flyers, and suffered scores due to it. Built a RimX with a Benchmark barrel in a MDT ACC to match my centerfire rig. Night/Day difference from the 10/22. The bullet goes where I aim it. Every time. I spent enough on 10/22's to built a couple RimX or Vudoos.

    I have been using a RCBS Chargemaster since they came out. It's fine and does ok. There are times I sit and wait forever for it to settle. Other times it's fast. There are times I know it's lying because of just how fast it is. I'll pick up the pan and set it back down, yes it's off. I have an Autotrickler V4 and A&D on order, I am sure it will cause me to sell off the CM and never look back.
     

    PatMiles

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    One thing to remember when thinking if buying high end reloading equipment, when the time comes to get out of shooting (age, loss of interest, physical problems, etc.) the high end equipment will bring a better return when selling.
     

    Baron23

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    So I know this question will bring a plethora of different responses but I want to get other opinions before I venture down the road of buying the following high end equipment and spending a lot of hard earned money. First I should preface this question with the fact that I'm the kind of person that usually goes for the high end on my initial purchases just because I enjoy quality. I'm actually pondering the purchase of a Vudoo 22 rifle right now but there are also some reloading purchases that I'm contemplating. I'm also wondering if there's an alternate route that saves me some money but would still achieve my reloading goals. So there are three pieces of equipment that I'm contemplating the purchase of and they include the Area 419 Zero press, AMP Annealer and the AutoTricker V4 with FX-120i scale. I've been reloading for several years on an RCBS Rockchucker and the Hornady APS progressive press (for pistol). My reloading goals are two fold. First to increase my productivity when reloading my rifle ammo by speeding up the process without sacrificing quality and my second goal would be to maintain enough accuracy (1/2 MOA or better) in my reloads to shoot long range competitions such as PRS. I'm shooting a MPA PMR Pro rifle in 6.5 CM right now. The alternates to the AutoTrickler that I think could save me some money and still achieve my goals is to add another RCBS Chargemaster 1500 or Chargemaster Lite (maybe two of these) to my existing Chargemaster 1500. Also wondering if one of the alternate annealers would do the trick for annealing.
    A friend has the 419 Zero and its a work of art and I plan to upgrade sometime in the next year. If you like quality, I can't imagine any other press satisfying you. I am reasonably new to metallic reloading as I've been a registered skeet shooter for some number of decades but I'm too old and broken down now. But 25 years ago I bought a Spolar Gold reloader with hydros for what, at the time, seemed like stupid money and I have NEVER regretted it since. To me, the Zero is the metallic version of the Spolar (pic below....its a fuck of a machine).

    1631036834522.png


    I do not have an AMP but same buddy has one and I use it (yeah, he's a good friend) and will buy one in the next year or so. I know a little about induction coil heating while at the same time have little interest in a propane torch powered annealer.

    I do not have an Autotrickler. I just didn't like the multi-part design and the need to position the trickler. Right or wrong (and again, I'm fairly new to metallic reloading) I went with the RCBS MatchMaster. I have a DD214 (if you were not mil, that's your discharge papers and proof of service) and RCBS gives a very generous discount to mil/LEO. If you qualify, its a pretty good deal. I do have some criticism of their design, but I was a Program Manager in high tech telcom infrastructure and the job is often being a professional nitpicker. I have some level of criticism about almost all equipment so take it with a grain of salt. I'm picky old fart! haha

    For a trimmer, I just recently bought a Giraurd. I did so for a few reasons including that I didn't want to have to bolt a trimmer to one of my benches (like the Henderson) and that's not needed with the Giraurd. In hindsight, if I wanted to go Henderson I could have mounted some T-bolt slots into the bench and make it easily removable...but I didn't.

    I made a post about Doug Giraud going back (like back 20 years ago) to the old open bearing motor that he USED to use that needs an occasional drop of oil in this little port....without updating his website, manual, or notifying customers who had outstanding orders for his trimmer. He did so for what I consider a small price increase in his cost for the sealed bearing motor which served him well but IMO did not serve his customers well. And that pissed me off, frankly.

    However, at my usage rate, I anticipate needing to oil it once a year so not a big deal and many like the Giraud over the Henderson as the Henderson uses a pilot that goes into the neck and @Dthomas3523 has a post where the pilot was galled a bit and etched the inside of his necks. the Giraud does not insert anything into the neck.

    Best of luck and I hope my disjointed and uninformed ramblings are somewhat useful to you.
     
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    Dogtown

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    I spent about six years recently in limbo while I fought cancer and went to school. Now that I'm back in the swing of things and earning an income again, I splurged on some reloading gear that I wanted for quite some time like a Redding T-7, AMP, and Autotrickler w/ fx120i. A few months ago the T-7 got supplanted by a Zero Press, and I also handed down my calipers and related tools to a friend and replaced them with a Mitutoyo and SAC measuring tools.

    If I had to do it all again, but with limited funds, I'd prioritize these as making the most difference in my precision loading output:

    1. Autotrickler w/ fx-120i (I went from slow precision with a beam scale to fast high precision with this gear)

    2. 21st Century neck mandrel sets (not cheap but having precise control over neck tension has really upped my consistency across the board)

    3. AMP annealer (my brass now lasts 2-3x longer and also gives me more consistent ammo)

    4. Zero Press (it's the One Ring of presses I'm finding)
     

    ma smith

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    question for those who know more than myself

    Two options:

    1) buy 1000 lapua cases for $1,000 (10k rnds service life)
    2) buy annealer for $1,400, anneal every round...etc

    1.1) Buy 2000 lapua cases for $2000 (=whole barrel interval)
    2.2) Pay $100 every 2,000 rnds for 3rd party annealing svc @ $0.05/each

    which makes more sense?
     

    Rhed

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    Use to run 3 cm lites. Sold them. Now run 2 AutoTrickler v3. Giruad trimmer after Wilson. AMP annealer. For press, I was on the the t7 for awhile. Now back to the Forster coax. Not really high end but gives me concentric ammo.
     
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    Gregor.Samsa

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    Which do you feel would make a bigger impact on the quality of your reloads; very high end dies (Warner, SAC etc.) on a decent, proven press or a high end press such as the Zero with decent dies (Redding, Forster etc.)? This is assuming one isn't going in whole hog all at once.
     
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    High Desert duck

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    Those are all great things for your reloading room. In order I’d do the AutoTrickler, then the amp then the Zero press.
    The AutoTrickler will make the biggest difference in the speed and quality of your reloads. The load cell technology in the chargemaster is not in the same category as the electronic balance in the A&D. The AutoTrickler is way more accurate/reliable with the added be wrong being much faster.
    the amp is great super accurate but again if the primary goal is volume/. Then accuracy check out the bench source annealer
    The zero press is great and I’d love to have one but, if your looking at PRS I’m not sure it will make a difference in your scores. It will also not be any faster than your rock chucked. The best way to increase your production speed is to touch the brass less. I do all my brass prep on a Dillon 550. The 419 will decrease the effort and fatigue but it will not speed up production significantly. Also for PRS I don’t think concentricity is that important it has to be pretty bad to make a significant difference in group size.
     

    sonichanxiao

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    I would say a Dillon 750 with 2 Autotricklers or Prometheus if money is not any issue. For the single stage press, maybe a Turban?

    CPS primer seater and Giraud for trimming the brass.

    AMP with mate would be a good add-on.
     
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    918v

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    question for those who know more than myself

    Two options:

    1) buy 1000 lapua cases for $1,000 (10k rnds service life)
    2) buy annealer for $1,400, anneal every round...etc

    1.1) Buy 2000 lapua cases for $2000 (=whole barrel interval)
    2.2) Pay $100 every 2,000 rnds for 3rd party annealing svc @ $0.05/each

    which makes more sense?

    Buy the annealer and do them yourself instead of trusting some yahoo to do it.
     

    TSparger

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    question for those who know more than myself

    Two options:

    1) buy 1000 lapua cases for $1,000 (10k rnds service life)
    2) buy annealer for $1,400, anneal every round...etc

    1.1) Buy 2000 lapua cases for $2000 (=whole barrel interval)
    2.2) Pay $100 every 2,000 rnds for 3rd party annealing svc @ $0.05/each

    which makes more sense?
    Hmm that’s definitely food for thought
     

    sonichanxiao

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    question for those who know more than myself

    Two options:

    1) buy 1000 lapua cases for $1,000 (10k rnds service life)
    2) buy annealer for $1,400, anneal every round...etc

    1.1) Buy 2000 lapua cases for $2000 (=whole barrel interval)
    2.2) Pay $100 every 2,000 rnds for 3rd party annealing svc @ $0.05/each

    which makes more sense?
    Buy your own AMP or some other cheaper option, anneal the brass to keep it consistent and brass can last longer.
     

    hlee

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    How many barrels are you going to burn through? How much is your time worth. Do you trust yourself as much as the yahoo with the annealing business?

    $1400 is a lot of brass...
     

    ceekay1

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    My $0.02:

    Zero press = no. maybe.
    AMP = yes.
    AT4 & fx120i = yes.


    The Zero is very nicely made, if you want one get one, but there are lots of other good presses out there that'll make ammo that's just as good.

    I have some pretty Gucci shit for some things, but for my precision stuff I wanted something stupid simple and uncomplicated, so I load my rifle stuff on a little Lyman Ideal press which is probably cheaper than just about anybody's seating die, and my rounds turn out awesome.*

    As for the other 2 items (AMP/AT4)... in this game, at what they do, they are it.

    *FWIW, my other press is a Dillon XL750 w/ Mr. Bullet Feeder and all the fixins' and makes ~1000rds per hour of normal non-long-range-precision stuff... only reason I mention this is: I'm pretty sure there's nothing I'd like enough about the Zero press to recommend one over having a fully-blown Dillon and any other decent single stage press out there (because it looks like it's about the same money either way). So doesn't sound like budget is your main concern, but something to consider nonetheless.
     
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    Hardshot

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    The amp is an option but the AutoTrickler V3 or V4 and the FX 120 a must have for me .My 40 year old RCBS. Press works just fine with goon dies . If your doing every else right you can load to the kernel of powder .Doesn’t get any better than that
     

    straightandtrue

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    Lots of great suggestions here. Dies are important. I have Warner Tool Co.dies and they are consistently amazing. And Dan Warner and his Brother provide great customer service. I had and still have RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme...single stage press...but the bug bit me and then I've gotten the 120 Prazzipress. I wish I can describe what a joy is to use this incredible single stage press ( :) I think I just did :)). And again everyone has to do what they can afford or what they have saved for over time (me). Ultimately what is your Long Term Goal will determine your purchase going forward . However none of this really matters unless you put time on the range. Dry fire, group shoot, live shoot.



     

    TreyMeTrey

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    So I know this question will bring a plethora of different responses but I want to get other opinions before I venture down the road of buying the following high end equipment and spending a lot of hard earned money. First I should preface this question with the fact that I'm the kind of person that usually goes for the high end on my initial purchases just because I enjoy quality. I'm actually pondering the purchase of a Vudoo 22 rifle right now but there are also some reloading purchases that I'm contemplating. I'm also wondering if there's an alternate route that saves me some money but would still achieve my reloading goals. So there are three pieces of equipment that I'm contemplating the purchase of and they include the Area 419 Zero press, AMP Annealer and the AutoTricker V4 with FX-120i scale. I've been reloading for several years on an RCBS Rockchucker and the Hornady APS progressive press (for pistol). My reloading goals are two fold. First to increase my productivity when reloading my rifle ammo by speeding up the process without sacrificing quality and my second goal would be to maintain enough accuracy (1/2 MOA or better) in my reloads to shoot long range competitions such as PRS. I'm shooting a MPA PMR Pro rifle in 6.5 CM right now. The alternates to the AutoTrickler that I think could save me some money and still achieve my goals is to add another RCBS Chargemaster 1500 or Chargemaster Lite (maybe two of these) to my existing Chargemaster 1500. Also wondering if one of the alternate annealers would do the trick for annealing.
    Dude you have the best choices already..Thats what F Class John uses to reload and he is Top Shelf shooter and reloader. You nailed your list in my opinion.
    I use Warner Dies and Whidden Micro Adjustable Seater and Adjustable Nut on my Dies to bump shoulder.Ive got the $800. RCBS Charge Master and The Honady Lock N Load Auto Charge Dispenser.. They both suit me.
    Ive went thru Hornady Match Dies,Redding Class S Dies,Dillon dies,RCBS Match Dies..Whidden and LE Wilson..But My best is my Custom Warner Dies.. I do like my TIEBEL Dies alot too though.
    The Zero Press is very High Dollar but like you say..Buy Once Cry Once..Go for it..Get the best Dies you can afford.My 2 Warner dies were $1200.
    Good Luck in your Choices and Reloading.
     

    flyright

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    AMP annealer is "choice". However, I've never seen a difference on paper. I've actually stopped annealing based on BR shooters' advice. I now only "anneal" every third or fourth firing. Just my .03...
     

    Dargie12317

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    I have Press zero and A&D, love it, powder charge is consistency and the press both resize the brass and seating bullets is between 1-1000 every time and I recommend you look at Frankfort case trimmers.

    happy reloading and shooting guys!
     

    ceekay1

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    I would add the CPS from Primal Rights to your list.

    Nope, not at all, having used one, the CPS goes in the rip-off category.

    Nothing else really does what the other items the OP mentioned do (aside from the Zero of course), while in the case of the CPS, there are like 10 different things out there that are just as good, many of them better, for a tenth of the cost. In fact, one can buy a whole Dillon 550 plus any extra parts needed to setup their priming system to achieve custom depths to the .0005" for hundreds less.

    Just because most precision guys aren't afraid to open our wallets doesn't mean we should be fleeced.
     
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    TSparger

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    Guess I should have mentioned in my original post that I'm not planning to shoot ELR or F-class comps. Reasons for me wanting the Zero press is ability to load all my dies on the turret and not have to change dies out all the time. Realize I could go to one of the other turret presses for this but really like the way the Zero collects spent primers and it sounds like it's built like a tank and smooth as silk to operate. I don't have any misconceptions that the Zero press with gain me any precision over my Rockchucker press so that probably would just be a luxury item at this point. Reason I would look at the AutoTrickler is to speed up powder drops and improve the accuracy of the drop. AMP annealer would be for obvious reasons of extending life of the expensive Lapua brass I'm shooting and to do it without using a flame.
     
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    ceekay1

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    It's ok to get a Zero just 'cause they're nice, it's ok, hahaha.
     
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    Cascade Hemi

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    Guess I should have mentioned in my original post that I'm not planning to shoot ELR or F-class comps. Reasons for me wanting the Zero press is ability to load all my dies on the turret and not have to change dies out all the time. Realize I could go to one of the other turret presses for this but really like the way the Zero collects spent primers and it sounds like it's built like a tank and smooth as silk to operate. I don't have any misconceptions that the Zero press with gain me any precision over my Rockchucker press so that probably would just be a luxury item at this point. Reason I would look at the AutoTrickler is to speed up powder drops and improve the accuracy of the drop. AMP annealer would be for obvious reasons of extending life of the expensive Lapua brass I'm shooting and to do it without using a flame.

    I have a Zero press with three turrets. It is pretty convenient to swap the turrets but I probably need two more turrets to mount the rest of my dies. I also have a old Rock Chucker Supreme press, there is no discernable difference in the ammunition that comes out of the two presses. There was an obvious difference in the ammunition quality between the Zero and the Forster CoAx I replaced it with, not the RCBS though.

    There's plenty of lower cost annealing setups than the AMP, despite what some people think, you don't have to spend $1400 to anneal your brass. Hell, there's members advocating against annealing. For the most part, the high end equipment offers you convenience and lower time inputs, that's it. You can make ammunition that is every bit as good with lower cost gear, there is not a single part listed in this thread that can't be substituted for the same final result. The only question is how much time do you want to dedicate to reloading and how much do you want to spend?
     
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    Alan Warner

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    AMP annealer is "choice". However, I've never seen a difference on paper. I've actually stopped annealing based on BR shooters' advice. I now only "anneal" every third or fourth firing. Just my .03...
    I agree. Depends on how much you are moving the brass from firing to sizing. Most only require after every 2nd or third firing.
     

    Sheldon N

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    My reloading goals are two fold. First to increase my productivity when reloading my rifle ammo by speeding up the process without sacrificing quality and my second goal would be to maintain enough accuracy (1/2 MOA or better) in my reloads to shoot long range competitions such as PRS.

    I think it's easy enough to maintain accuracy in your reloads if you've got good consistent processes, so the rest of the game is about buying yourself time back to speed up the processes. IMO, the biggest time savers for me have been:

    • Moving to larger lots of brass, storing the cases in bulk bins. Reduces the number of times that you need to get out reloading gear and set up a process. Reduces time spent individually putting the cases in ammo boxes. Reduces the number of times that you have not quite enough brass processed for the next match and have to do a partial loading process.
    • Brass prep on a progressive press. Deprime, size, mandrel die all in one pass. An alternative is a one-die process like a bushing die on a single stage press with a case kicker from Inline Fabrication. With the case kicker that can be very fast too. Make yourself a great big pile of brass that's clean and ready to load.
    • Giraud trimmer. Or Henderson is good too.
    • Fast accurate powder scale. FX120 Autotrickler, Prometheus. You could even use 2-3 Chargemasters in parallel so they can keep up with you.
    • Loading on a progressive press. Priming the case, pouring powder through a funnel, seating the bullet all in one pass. IMO the time savings comes from the fact that you don't need to prime the cases separately.
    I still flame anneal, AMP seems nice but I would only consider it with the case feeder attachment. With flame annealing I can load up the hopper and let it run while I'm working on another reloading process. Handling the case each time would take too much time IMO.
     
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    Dogtown

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    On the Zero, I find it a bit easier to swap turrets than say the T-7. It's basically a one-piece design instead of the turret having a sleeve that often slides out. And storing them with the Big Dog Steel mount for the Zero is super convenient. The Redding turret stacking thingamajig is sub-optimal, in my experience. Probably the only Redding product I've been unimpressed by.

    The downside is that buying two extra Zero turrets costs more than four T-7 turrets. Then again, the difference in quality and rock-solid locking is noticeably better with the Zero.
     

    Painless300

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    Nope, not at all, having used one, the CPS goes in the rip-off category.

    Nothing else really does what the other items the OP mentioned do (aside from the Zero of course), while in the case of the CPS, there are like 10 different things out there that are just as good, many of them better, for a tenth of the cost. In fact, one can buy a whole Dillon 550 plus any extra parts needed to setup their priming system to achieve custom depths to the .0005" for hundreds less.

    Just because most precision guys aren't afraid to open our wallets doesn't mean we should be fleeced.
    Totally disagree with just about everything you just posted. You must not have used one for very long. Most precision rifle guys stay completely away from Dillons, so not sure why you even brought that up in this thread.
    Personally its one of the favorite pieces of reloading equipment I have on my bench. Its extremely fast, very comfortable and dead nuts accurate on primer seating depth. Its turned a hated portion of the reloading process into an enjoyable one.
     

    ceekay1

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    Totally disagree with just about everything you just posted. You must not have used one for very long. Most precision rifle guys stay completely away from Dillons, so not sure why you even brought that up in this thread.
    Personally its one of the favorite pieces of reloading equipment I have on my bench. Its extremely fast, very comfortable and dead nuts accurate on primer seating depth. Its turned a hated portion of the reloading process into an enjoyable one.

    It's ok if you don't agree, and yes I've used one long enough and still use one at my buddy's now and then still.

    I don't find the CPS particularly special at anything other than separating guys who shoot rifles and don't know any better from their money. There's a lot of stuff like that in this game, and guys buy it because "expensive = better" right? ... I mean Warner and Forster both sell dies that are made on precisely programmed CNC machines, but Forster's are only like $68, so they totally suck and make shit ammo, while the $600 Warner dies make ammo that only lands in the X ring. 🙄

    Let's agree to disagree, move on, and not train-wreck the OP's thread talking about a piece of kit he didn't even ask about.
     
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    Kpchurch

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    I couldn’t agree with you more. I jumped head first into this sport in late 2020.

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    orkan

    Primal Rights, Inc.
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    Minuteman
    Oct 27, 2008
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    Nope, not at all, having used one, the CPS goes in the rip-off category.

    Nothing else really does what the other items the OP mentioned do (aside from the Zero of course), while in the case of the CPS, there are like 10 different things out there that are just as good, many of them better, for a tenth of the cost. In fact, one can buy a whole Dillon 550 plus any extra parts needed to setup their priming system to achieve custom depths to the .0005" for hundreds less.

    Just because most precision guys aren't afraid to open our wallets doesn't mean we should be fleeced.

    It's ok if you don't agree, and yes I've used one long enough and still use one at my buddy's now and then still.

    I don't find the CPS particularly special at anything other than separating guys who shoot rifles and don't know any better from their money. There's a lot of stuff like that in this game, and guys buy it because "expensive = better" right? ... I mean Warner and Forster both sell dies that are made on precisely programmed CNC machines, but Forster's are only like $68, so they totally suck and make shit ammo, while the $600 Warner dies make ammo that only lands in the X ring. 🙄

    Let's agree to disagree, move on, and not train-wreck the OP's thread talking about a piece of kit he didn't even ask about.
    Doesn't make me feel good at all to read something like this. It's the first time I recall seeing such a condemnation of my product. Mostly what I've heard is quite the opposite. If you'd care to share any specifics about what specifically created such a visceral response... I'd appreciate it.

    In the mean time, I have a few blems in stock. Minor scratches or some mismatched anodizing or something. Just PM me your address and I'll send you one for exactly what you think its worth; nothing. If you don't want it... I'll give it away to the OP of this thread - @TSparger
     

    TSparger

    Private
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    Dec 20, 2020
    23
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    Marietta, Georgia
    Doesn't make me feel good at all to read something like this. It's the first time I recall seeing such a condemnation of my product. Mostly what I've heard is quite the opposite. If you'd care to share any specifics about what specifically created such a visceral response... I'd appreciate it.

    In the mean time, I have a few blems in stock. Minor scratches or some mismatched anodizing or something. Just PM me your address and I'll send you one for exactly what you think its worth; nothing. If you don't want it... I'll give it away to the OP of this thread - @TSparger
    Hope he doesn't want it :). I would love to have it.
     
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    dddoo7

    Senior Member
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    Apr 18, 2011
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    Memphis, TN
    I will share my experiences with higher end equipment that I believe to be worth the money.

    I started with old balance scale and trickler. It did ok, but was very slow and not very accurate. I then bought a charge master which sped the process up substantially, but at times it wasn't as accurate as the old balance scale. So I upgraded to the auto trickler. The auto trickler was faster and fairly accurate and I was happy with it until I saw a promethius work. The promethius is very fast and kernel accurate. It simplifies the powder process greatly and was worth every penny. Auto trickler was sold.

    giuard trimmer replaced the old Wilson. Just as accurate and much faster.

    CPS replaced priming on the press. It is very fast, accurate, and comfortable. Nothing compares to the cps when it comes to priming and I have used several different priming systems. I own dillons presses too, but for precision priming the cps is faster and more precise.

    There are several pieces I don’t have experience with, but might consider in the future. I don’t yet have a zero press, but they look very nice and I would for sure look that direction if I were buying a press today. I have the benchsource Anneealer which was the best made when I bought it. If I were buying today I would look seriously at the AMP.
     

    Jmkjr87

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    Doesn't make me feel good at all to read something like this. It's the first time I recall seeing such a condemnation of my product. Mostly what I've heard is quite the opposite. If you'd care to share any specifics about what specifically created such a visceral response... I'd appreciate it.

    In the mean time, I have a few blems in stock. Minor scratches or some mismatched anodizing or something. Just PM me your address and I'll send you one for exactly what you think its worth; nothing. If you don't want it... I'll give it away to the OP of this thread - @TSparger

    I've wanted your priming tool but just can't afford it at the moment. If you want to sell a blem version for less PM me. Those tools are slick and the jerk off that says other wise is exactly that, a jerk off
     

    huntnh

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    Mar 15, 2010
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    I agree priming is my least favorite part of the reloading process I would love to pick up a cps but with two kids in college it’s probably not going to happen right away. It looks to be a awesome addition to any reloading room. A faster way to throw powder would be nice but not necessary.
    As far as presses go for percussion my old rock chucker with good dies like Redding or whidden is fine for me. I reload because I enjoy it. It’s all part of the game plus I’m to cheep to pay 50 bucks a box for decent ammo 😁
     
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    ceekay1

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    Sep 2, 2020
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    Doesn't make me feel good at all to read something like this. It's the first time I recall seeing such a condemnation of my product. Mostly what I've heard is quite the opposite. If you'd care to share any specifics about what specifically created such a visceral response... I'd appreciate it.

    In the mean time, I have a few blems in stock. Minor scratches or some mismatched anodizing or something. Just PM me your address and I'll send you one for exactly what you think its worth; nothing. If you don't want it... I'll give it away to the OP of this thread - @TSparger

    There was nothing visceral about my response concerning the CPS at all, and I never said it was worthless, I just have used the CPS and my opinion is that it is grossly overpriced for what it is, that's it.

    In a sport where a properly put together bag of sand costs $100+, and where many of the individuals involved buy/own not just one, but several of them ...and also with some of those same individuals willing to pay $6000 for a scope that might only be 1% better than a $2000 scope... coming across a product that appears to cost more than it seems it should at first glance is not surprising, I get it.

    I understand that hand priming-tools aren't for everybody, and not everyone has healthy grip strength and can close a Captains of Crush as easily as I can. For many (and as I get older, soon enough for me too), I can see why a bench priming-tool that utilizes leverage is a much better prospect.

    ...which I guess is why I don't understand the $600 price tag of a CPS?:

    First off, looking at the design of the CPS, I honestly do not know how either RCBS, and/or Darrell Holland, hasn't sued Primal Rights for copyright infringement based on how similar the design is to the RCS Automatic Priming Tool (https://www.rcbs.com/priming-and-powder-charging/bench-mounted/automatic-priming-tool/16-9460.html) and/or Mr's Holland's upgrade which adds primer seating depth adjustment (https://www.hollandguns.com/m7/H-PPS-AU--hollands-perfect-primer-seater-adapter-unit.html) or just his compete upgraded unit (https://www.hollandguns.com/m7/H-PPS-CU--hollands-perfect-primer-seater-complete-unit.html)..?

    If a CPS unit was 2-3x the cost of the RCBS I guess it'd seem reasonable and probably wouldn't even show up on the radar for me.

    But it's 6x the price, which even for a guy who owns a Jeep Wrangler (so I'm used to paying too much for stuff that's probably not really worth it if I'm honest), just seems a little much and summons a "bless your heart" reaction from me.

    If it has to cost that much in order for you to turn a profit, even made in the USA, in 2021, god help us all.

    If someone wants to buy a CPS, and has the money, do it

    I don't need the CPS, but thanks for the offer (if it was genuine).

    I do still think you should give it to one of these hide members who'd appreciate it though (and you're weak as hell if you don't)!!!

    I'm happy continuing to use my Frankford Arsenal Perfect Priming Tool, which also has adjustable depth, but is much faster, and has been flawless for me.
     
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    ICU22250

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    ceekay1

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    @Alan Warner, do you think folks who make overpriced hula hoop gear troll sites discussing hula hoops, slinging cuss words at random strangers who don't dig their stuff and are saying things that might keep other well-heeled hula hoopers with fat wallets from emptying them on their hyped up BS?
     
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    diggler1833

    World's Okayest Rancher and Hog Hunter
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  • Jul 22, 2007
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    I guess I'm a Fudd when it comes to reloading.

    I consider reloading to be as relaxing and enjoyable as shooting...almost therapeutic if you will. Maybe it's a jacked up outlook according to some, but damn if I'm not having a lot more fun doing it than many posting on here.

    That is NOT an attempt to crap on people who want it faster and (often) better. I totally get it if a guy has a 50 hour a week job, family responsibilities, and a need to shoot a lot. Cranking out one round at a time after manually doing everything is just not feasible with those outside commitments. I might load 1,500 rifle rounds per year, so my perspective automatically disqualifies me from valid input to competitors.

    I still use a RCBS Rock Chucker, manual trimmer, manual chamfer/debur tool, hand primer, and I manually weigh each charge on a beam scale. I also use just basic RCBS and Redding (non competition) dies. It takes about 3.5 - 4 hours to do 50 rounds once I get the cases out of the tumbler...so speed isn't there, but the enjoyment of the process is.

    However accuracy and consistency are there with basic setups like mine. I have several consistent 1/2 MOA or better shooters with single digit SDs. In that regard I think that some people (enthusiasts / non-competitors) absolutely get hung up on spending a mint in search of accuracy with exceeding diminishing returns. Again though, my position won't work in the benchrest or F-class worlds. Hitting a steel torso at 3-600 yards in a pasture isn't a game of thousandths like those disciplines are.

    Nothing wrong at all with wanting or having the best. I'll certainly attest to the build quality of certain higher end tools over entry-level stuff such as my own. If I were something more than a novice, I'd definitely change my outlook.

    I guess my point to the OP is that you can get into this with less of an investment and still be okay. You'll have to play the balance of "buy once, cry once" vs. "buyers remorse" yourself.