Hoplite Arms

Status
Not open for further replies.

THEIS

Hi, Sincerely
Banned !
Full Member
Minuteman
  • @THEIS ,

    Maybe I missed it, but when are the Kopis rifles due for release?

    Hi,

    As soon as we get this first batch of Aspis models done and run through the ringers we are immediately going into final T&E version of the Kopis since it utilizes most of the components the Aspis uses.

    We just have to make the changes to the 2D manufacturers drawings of a few independent Kopis parts but we want to get full production Apsis units out first.

    As you may or may not know....I am not a fan of giving out dates because there are just too many moving parts for most people to realize but it should be late Q3, early Q4 of this year.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Banned !
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Hi,

    When nothing useful emerges into the beginning of something functional.
    63798 (2).jpeg


    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    TheBigCountry

    Green Weenie
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Dec 9, 2013
    1,518
    1,385
    Hi,

    As soon as we get this first batch of Aspis models done and run through the ringers we are immediately going into final T&E version of the Kopis since it utilizes most of the components the Aspis uses.

    We just have to make the changes to the 2D manufacturers drawings of a few independent Kopis parts but we want to get full production Apsis units out first.

    As you may or may not know....I am not a fan of giving out dates because there are just too many moving parts for most people to realize but it should be late Q3, early Q4 of this year.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
    Good deal Sir; gives me time to possibly move a few things to potentially get one when they get released.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: THEIS

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Banned !
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Color looks different unless it’s my phone, what material is that doesn’t look like aluminum?

    Hi,

    LOLOLOLOL, your phone is not losing its' color calibration, haha.

    So the production model rifles will have the magazine release made from 303 stainless instead of the 7075 aluminum.

    We spent a fair amount of time going back and forth in regards to why vs why not vs does it matter vs does it not matter......

    Ultimately we decided on 303 stainless because after the trigger functioning and the bolt cycling.....magazine release is the most utilized functional operation that we do with a bolt action rifle system.

    So might as well make sure the pivot pin doesn't enlarge the pin hole if it gets gritty shit in it.

    More than likely the 7075 aluminum would never have been an issue, BUT that 5% chance was just not worth us taking.

    Like the Israeli security companies like to say.."Take care of the small things and the big things never happen"...........

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    ELR researcher

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 30, 2011
    886
    189
    www.elr-resources.com
    Hi,

    The business end of the Hoplite Arms ASPIS model precision rifle.
    Available in 300NM, 338NM, 338LM and the new 375 Swiss P.



    Sincerely,
    Theis
    Theis - catching up a bit. Production ASPIS in 375 Swiss P! Will you also be offering the bits and pieces to make that real for the non-mil/LE customer, e.g., ammo, brass, chamber reamers, dies? Thanks.
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Banned !
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Theis - catching up a bit. Production ASPIS in 375 Swiss P! Will you also be offering the bits and pieces to make that real for the non-mil/LE customer, e.g., ammo, brass, chamber reamers, dies? Thanks.


    Hi,

    At this moment; Yes we will. I have my first set of dies in process right now.
    But I will not be offering any of that to mass public outside of our rifle customers. I am not getting into the component business as a stand alone entity.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    Reload10

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Jan 21, 2018
    779
    336
    What's the price point you're targeting for the Aspis?
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Banned !
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Hi,

    OK everyone; by now most have seen the recent circulating video of a youtuber blowing up his Serbu BMG and all the in's/out's of that discussion.

    So I wanted to take a moment to show/highlight a design feature (Other than the Aermet 100 for the bolt and breech cylinder) that deals with and handles an overpressure situation while keeping the shooter better protected.

    As some of you may or may not have noticed; we do not have a gas port on our receivers.
    That is because we have designed/utilize a different safety mechanism into the rifle.

    Here is a picture of a closed bolt. Notice the bolt lugs are secured onto the breech cylinder lugs. (T&E RIFLE...production model has way smaller firing pin and firing pin hole along with how the bolt looks, lol)
    Notice at that point since the action does not have raceways; that there is 3 openings (each a bolt lug width) for overgas to flow after escaping from the boltface. That flow will go rearward past the breech cylinder area.
    20210502_093054.jpg


    Here is picture showing what the bolt looks like when closed in the breech cylinder (bottom view).
    Notice the full diameter bolt body has an "interruption" by design. That interruption is a purposely designed gap that acts as an overflow gas channel.
    20210502_094830.jpg


    Here is a picture of the bolt with breech cylinder removed so that you can once again see the shape/angle of the full diameter bolt body when in the breech cylinder will act as a gas deflection feature.
    20210502_120422.jpg


    All this to direct and dump any overflow gas to and down the magazine well instead of following the receiver raceways to the shooter or needing to have gas ports in the receiver body itself.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    W54/XM-388

    Online Training Member
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Oct 1, 2005
    11,110
    21,792
    Dallas, TX
    All this to direct and dump any overflow gas to and down the magazine well instead of following the receiver raceways to the shooter or needing to have gas ports in the receiver body itself.

    I assume then for maximum safety, when shooting the rifle, keep the support hand away from the magazine area and you should wind up unharmed even if you really badly mess up which powder you loaded with?
     

    brianf

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 8, 2010
    4,824
    5,679
    44
    NY
    I assume then for maximum safety, when shooting the rifle, keep the support hand away from the magazine area and you should wind up unharmed even if you really badly mess up which powder you loaded with?
    In theory I’d guess your right but the amount of gas than will escape in general then travel down to the mag area, then expel past the chassis/mag...

    I dont think it will matter much
     

    Steel head

    Feral kitten
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Aug 3, 2014
    18,172
    58,163
    Washington
    I assume then for maximum safety, when shooting the rifle, keep the support hand away from the magazine area and you should wind up unharmed even if you really badly mess up which powder you loaded with?
    Between the magazine cut and the port opening and the quite generous gas paths I’d imagine that thing flows like gas the the Mississippi.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: lash

    ELR researcher

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 30, 2011
    886
    189
    www.elr-resources.com
    Hi,

    At this moment; Yes we will. I have my first set of dies in process right now.
    But I will not be offering any of that to mass public outside of our rifle customers. I am not getting into the component business as a stand alone entity.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
    Theis - "ammo, brass, chamber reamers, dies?"

    You noted selling at least dies, if I understood correctly.

    Since the chamber is CIP, seems no big issue for reamers - beyond defining the appropriate throating for the planned bullets (not Ruag's).

    So:

    1. What's the plan for brass?

    2. I'm assuming that Ruag is not going to be selling their ammo through you OR through retail channel. Correct?

    Thanks
     

    W54/XM-388

    Online Training Member
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Oct 1, 2005
    11,110
    21,792
    Dallas, TX
    Hi,

    Well now is the time to sell since firearms sells are at an all time high right now. :)

    Sincerely,
    Theis

    It looks as though I will be selling everything I have in order to have the honor of owning one of these modern firearms masterpieces...

    I totally agree, I was able to get enough stuff sold to fund an Aspis rifle over the past 6 months selling off my excess stuff on consignment at the local gun store.

    One thing I would suggest if you are selling off stuff right about now is:
    Consider "bundling" 50 to 100 rounds or so of matching ammunition with your firearm sale if you are selling locally or on consignment at your local gun store.
    I've found that the stuff I put up tends to go really fast that way, compared to other stuff that sits. Because the buyers walk into the store look at all the guns but then look at all the empty shelves where ammo hasn't been for 5 months and then they see one of the guns says it comes with 50, 100, 150 or 200 rounds of ammunition and they are like... better get that one before someone else does.

    Now of course I just have to keep up the selling because I'll eventually need to fund a Greek named invasion of my safe because once you have one Hoplite rifle, well it just wouldn't do to stop there HA!
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Geno C.

    brianf

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 8, 2010
    4,824
    5,679
    44
    NY
    I totally agree, I was able to get enough stuff sold to fund an Aspis rifle over the past 6 months selling off my excess stuff on consignment at the local gun store.

    One thing I would suggest if you are selling off stuff right about now is:
    Consider "bundling" 50 to 100 rounds or so of matching ammunition with your firearm sale if you are selling locally or on consignment at your local gun store.
    I've found that the stuff I put up tends to go really fast that way, compared to other stuff that sits. Because the buyers walk into the store look at all the guns but then look at all the empty shelves where ammo hasn't been for 5 months and then they see one of the guns says it comes with 50, 100, 150 or 200 rounds of ammunition and they are like... better get that one before someone else does.

    Now of course I just have to keep up the selling because I'll eventually need to fund a Greek named invasion of my safe because once you have one Hoplite rifle, well it just wouldn't do to stop there HA!
    Smart idea using the bundle strat.
    Most likely bought said Ammo when prices cheaper so all in all even if the ammo is at cost it’s profitable. 👍
     

    brianf

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 8, 2010
    4,824
    5,679
    44
    NY
    The more I look at those pics...I think I’m going to change my color to clear

    That aluminum looks pretty cool

    and I’m not being “Snipery” anytime soon, so it might as well look good
     

    W54/XM-388

    Online Training Member
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Oct 1, 2005
    11,110
    21,792
    Dallas, TX
    So when do we get to see a video of a Hoplite rifle with a highly compressed pistol powder round blown up for research 🧐 I can’t wait 😛

    I'm guessing on a Hoplite rifle it wouldn't be dramatic at all.
    Most likely there would be no big kaboom, but you may mess up the bolt / collar and other parts a bit.
    Possibly gas and debris blasting out the magazine well at the worst case
     

    brianf

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 8, 2010
    4,824
    5,679
    44
    NY
    Desert Tech did that right?!
    The one he did was ok but there was no real data it was “expected pressure”

    If I remember he said that one round was at 90-80k, which is possible but when he finally pulled the brass out it wasn’t totally destroyed.

    At that pressure regular brass flows like water.
     

    orkan

    Primal Rights, Inc.
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Oct 27, 2008
    4,123
    3,398
    South Dakota, USA
    www.primalrights.com
    @orkan did many a moons ago

    I had just got back from a hunting trip where I was sick as a dog... you could still hear me sniffling and my voice sounding like my head was inside a traffic cone. Science couldn't wait.


    The one he did was ok but there was no real data it was “expected pressure”

    If I remember he said that one round was at 90-80k, which is possible but when he finally pulled the brass out it wasn’t totally destroyed.

    At that pressure regular brass flows like water.

    You can always go do your own tests. :)
    I don't recall speculating on the pressure. Not totally destroyed eh? What you call this? The ejector flow measures like an eight of an inch long. lol

    nDFCHU9h.jpg
     

    brianf

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 8, 2010
    4,824
    5,679
    44
    NY
    Ill rewatch the video...that was from memory...more than few years ago
     

    brianf

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 8, 2010
    4,824
    5,679
    44
    NY
    After the pistol powder that chewed up the bolt face did you guys check the measurements / action lugs for set back, cracks and such?

    be great to know if anything compressed etc.
     

    TxWelder35

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Oct 17, 2018
    3,046
    4,848
    DFW
    I'm guessing on a Hoplite rifle it wouldn't be dramatic at all.
    Most likely there would be no big kaboom, but you may mess up the bolt / collar and other parts a bit.
    Possibly gas and debris blasting out the magazine well at the worst case
    Bolt ain’t getting hurt. Aermet 100 bolt is going to be basically indestructible in this application.

    that would make for an interesting video though. Put that 300nm BA in a sled, fill a case plumb full of bullseye and let her rip. I really am interested to see if it’s possible to make this rifle go down due to over pressure rounds with commercially available powders, my guess is no. I could have swore I saw somewhere in this thread that the failure point was north of 200kpsi
     

    2aBaCa

    Humans are amusing
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 27, 2019
    5,319
    6,249
    I Da ho
    I had just got back from a hunting trip where I was sick as a dog... you could still hear me sniffling and my voice sounding like my head was inside a traffic cone. Science couldn't wait.




    You can always go do your own tests. :)
    I don't recall speculating on the pressure. Not totally destroyed eh? What you call this? The ejector flow measures like an eight of an inch long. lol

    nDFCHU9h.jpg


    Curious what the velocity of that Lapua was.
     

    Mike Casselton

    Non-Bidenary Trunk Monkey
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 25, 2007
    7,667
    11,994
    Lithia, FL
    Bolt ain’t getting hurt. Aermet 100 bolt is going to be basically indestructible in this application.

    that would make for an interesting video though. Put that 300nm BA in a sled, fill a case plumb full of bullseye and let her rip. I really am interested to see if it’s possible to make this rifle go down due to over pressure rounds with commercially available powders, my guess is no. I could have swore I saw somewhere in this thread that the failure point was north of 200kpsi

    Add in plug the barrel with some dirt or dried mud just to make it more interesting.
     

    Steel+Killer

    Killing one steel plate at a time!
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • May 27, 2014
    3,073
    7,138
    47
    32.752325 -79.867804
    I could have swore I saw somewhere in this thread that the failure point was north of 200kpsi
    How do they know that? Have they tested one to the failure point yet?

    I guess these questions are more for @THEIS

    Have you guys tried to blow one up to see what it will do and how the shooter will fare and videoed it?
     

    brianf

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 8, 2010
    4,824
    5,679
    44
    NY
    Several pages back there were still of computer sims they paid for during R&D.

    I actually think it was well over 200k with out a bolt face issue.

    if you scroll through it’s pretty easy to see them, big pics with blue/green etc.
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Banned !
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Hi,

    The destruction information will be coming soon but it is pretty simple to figure it out based on pure alloy strengths, elongation %, fracture resistance, etc etc.

    NO firearm can ever handle more than the ultimate tensile strength of the alloy used....it just cannot!!

    Some firearms cannot even handle their alloys ultimate tensile strength due to its' design features.

    We know where to start with physical destruction testing based on the 100k dollars of 3rd party/independent engineering labs analysis, static FEA and dynamic FEA.

    Dynamic and Static FEA has a crack starting at the firing pin hole in the bolt face at right over 240k cartridge pressures.

    It is easy to just "O my god I am going to destructive test my rifle" but that doesn't mean jack shit IF you do not have the equipment to measure what it took to actually destroy it and more important the equipment to measure any stress fractures, microscopic cracks, lug setback, etc etc

    There is a reason that the Nationally accredited facilities that do failure analysis and destructive testing (Not much for firearms industry because industry doesn't really do such) for a living cost what they cost.


    Edited To Add: Found the previous thread of FEA chart of safety margins using 80k cartridge pressure as the ZERO.

    This is FEA done with running Aermet 100 alloy for the bolt and breech cylinder with receiver body of 4140 HRC 45.
    At 120k cartridge pressures we are at a safety factor of 4.26.
    Notice at 130k cartridge pressures the analysis no longer follows a straight line decrease but then stabilizes back out at 180k cartridge pressures. When our engineering department first seen that it really intrigued us. So much that we ran it again, lol and got same results. We got same results from manually entering the Aermet 100 specs and auto entering from database.

    Don't worry of "but that just software analysis"...we doing same test with real detonations, lol

    Sincerely,
    Theis

    1620309176588.png

    1620309194957.png

    1620309207821.png


    1620309220193.png

    1620309233543.png

    1620309248929.png


    Sincerely,
    Theis
     
    Last edited:

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Banned !
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • So when do we get to see a video of a Hoplite rifle with a highly compressed pistol powder round blown up for research 🧐 I can’t wait 😛

    Hi,

    So just for shits and giggles, lol...
    Here is Gordons Reloading Tool data of 338LM with 300gr Scenars with 70gr (Case cannot even take that amount of fill, lol) of Bullseye.
    1620314881293.png


    So prediction of 170k....which if using 80k as base zero, lol...... we would be at a 1.58 safety factor.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    brianf

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 8, 2010
    4,824
    5,679
    44
    NY
    So what your showing between the 2 posts is that even a full case of pistol powder the lugs will not shear.

    Even though the extractors or plunger make take a beating in theory the bolt could be used again
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Banned !
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • But when will they be for sale?

    Hi,

    First production batch finishes up in about 2 weeks. Then they go off to coating. The barrel choice will dictate delivery timeframe.
    Send me a PM or email with a good time to give you a call tomorrow to discuss what you are looking for.
    I have a conference at 9-10CST and 3-4CST; anything else I can give you a call.


    Sincerely,
    Theis
     
    Last edited:

    TxWelder35

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Oct 17, 2018
    3,046
    4,848
    DFW
    So what your showing between the 2 posts is that even a full case of pistol powder the lugs will not shear.

    Even though the extractors or plunger make take a beating in theory the bolt could be used again
    I believe what they said was that Mark Serbu is a quack, needs to immediately recall all of his 50s, pay mr Kentucky ballistics a pile of money for his negligently designed firearm, and go back to looking at guns digest magazine.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: orkan and brianf
    Status
    Not open for further replies.