Hornady Concentricity Gage

[Jig Stick]

Does anybody have experience using this Hornady Concentricity Gage?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=220200

Im about to place a big order at MidwayUSA and have this is the basket. I do not have a concentricity gauge, so I do not even know if i am having run out problems. But it seems like a good idea to check for it to make sure my dies are set up properly. Have any of you used this one? Or recommend another? Thanks guys.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

I like the Redding version better, and a tad less expensive.

 

[Longshot38]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

Stay away. As much as I like Hornadys stuff this is one thing I wish I hadn't purchased. Unless they have improved on this since I purchased mine the indicator gauge is poorly made.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

I had one glad I got rid of it, buy a Sinclair unit, it doesn't straighten but is a much better unit.

 

[EWP]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

I'll second the Sinclair unit, I use mine with every loading and it works great.

 

[jlow]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

I am pretty surprised at all the negative statements about this product and the positive comment for the Sinclair unit.

I have tried both originally buying the Sinclair and send it back and replaced it with the Hornady. The problem with the Sinclair unit is that you are rolling the round on two sets of ball bearings, one set on the neck and the other on the head area. So theoretically you can see run out if things are not square. The problem with this approach is that if you have any minor dents in the head area, it is going to screw up your reading big time. The quality of the dial indicator was also of poorer quality than the Horandy.

The Hornady is a very hefty unit and much more consistent in how it holds the round and you get consistent reads. How is consistent defined? It is defined by whether you can get the same read off the same round time after time. I would rate the Hornady significantly better.

Now for the adjustment function. Most posters seem to think that this push the bullet in a specific direction to make the round more consistent – this is what I also thought in the beginning. However, after using the unit now for many months, what I find is that it allows the round to find its true concentricity that was off from seating for one reason or another. It is really interesting to see this thing in action as if you read many rounds, some would have very little run out and if you set the zero to those, when you push the ones that are off, they basically gets enough wiggle to go to true concentricity.

 

[aquinas]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

They are pretty easy to make, too.

get a v block from a machinist supply like enco and put a dial indicator on it. A set up tool with magnetic base works well.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

I think the Hornady is as good as any. As far as I'm corcerned, all of the units I've seen choose a reference datum that really ought not be one. The hornady unit assumes the case head "rim" is round and true. The Sinclair counts on the case body being round and true. Pick your poison!

 

[Chanonry]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

I have the RCBS, it is good enough, no experience of the others. Having said that, it was one of the best things I bought, improved my reloading no end.

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

how about the forster at midway?

 

[725franky]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

I've been wondering about run-out gauges / adjusters for sometime.

How much difference do they make (as far as accuracy is concerned)? I just want to know if it would be worth getting / using one or will it be one of those things that you buy and it just ends up on the shelf...

Sorry for the slight off topic...

 

[turbo54]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 725franky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been wondering about run-out gauges / adjusters for sometime.

How much difference do they make (as far as accuracy is concerned)? I just want to know if it would be worth getting / using one or will it be one of those things that you buy and it just ends up on the shelf...

Sorry for the slight off topic... </div></div>

Pretty hard to quantify. I'll go out on a limb and say it could be the difference between 3/4 MOA and 1/2 MOA. I gotta admit I'm pulling that figure outta my @$$ though. I can say that when I upped my reloading game and buckled down on my setup for good concentricity, my groups tightened about that much. However, I reckon it could have also been the extra practice.

The gauge will spend a lot of time sitting idley on the shelf. I used mine a good bit for about 2 hours, but now it sits, and occasionally, when I think of it, i'll randomly check a couple rounds. I haven't found a bad round. I also havent torn down my reloading setup though, either. I load 308 on a dillon 650. Overall, I think it's a good tool for a serious reloader, but the $100(ish) could be spent in a bunch of other places first.

I will CERTAINLY be using mine to verify/tune in my setup after its been torn down to load other stuff! I think its a good tool to go in half-sies with a buddy. Maybe even third-sies or quarter-sies. Kinda like a borescope.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jig Stick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anybody have experience using this Hornady Concentricity Gage?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=220200

Im about to place a big order at MidwayUSA and have this is the basket. I do not have a concentricity gauge, so I do not even know if i am having run out problems. But it seems like a good idea to check for it to make sure my dies are set up properly. Have any of you used this one? Or recommend another? Thanks guys. </div></div>

I like the Bersin gages with their 4/10,000" dial indicators. I have the Large Rifle that does 7 rem mag and similar magnum carts and on the other side, it does the 30'06 type carts.

You can get one that will do 223 on one side and the 308 family, on the other.

It's a 'fixer' like the Hornady gage and works quite well, but it's a tad on the spendy side.

Chris

 

[parker_chp]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

what can/do you change in your set up? I dont have a gauge so i dont knoow if i have runout.

 

[Killshot44]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

I had one and used it for a year. My conclusion? Use Redding's Competition Seating Dies with the micrometer top and you won't have runout exceeding .002" (provided your cases are in good shape)

After seeing consistent numbers between .0005 and .002, with a variety of bullets, I stopped measuring and sold the gauge.

That said, if you're using budget dies it does do its job when runout is extreme.

 

[InTheWeeds]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

I've got one and love it. ever its become useless on most of my .308 loads after getting a Forster Comp seater die. My runout after seating is almost less that .001". Its a cool tool to have, but unless you are getting into serious bench rest shooting, I think its a waste to own one.

 

[joediesel81]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

I like it but its not a fix for run out.
Here a video I did. enjoy.


<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qDrbA0rhGj4"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qDrbA0rhGj4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[jeep505090]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

+1 For the Hornady Concentricity Gauge. Why not get one more tool that helps eliminate possible issues. I have noticed an increase in accuracy with my rifle after checking facotry and reloaded rounds. You would be surprised everyonce in awhile when you find one way off, makes you wonder where that one would have gone. The other thing is my brass from facotry rounds that have been adjusted come out with absolutley no powder marks around the neck while the ones i dont fix do shoe powder burns on the neck, wierd but im convinced it does something.

 

[JW_TX]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

That was my question: what value is there in using this to check factory ammo? I am not in a position to reload and was thinking this would be a step I can take to improve the quality of the ammo.

Thoughts?

Might also be interested in purchasing one gathering dust...

 

[Jezzro2004]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

I do not own this product but am looking to definately buy it as soon as funds come in, based on videos I have watched on reviews and other videos on this tool, It will measure and correct run-out problems with factory ammo, as well as your handloads. It may not make ammo perfect and some people will say it dont do nothing but I see it as making more small uniform run-out if not perfect which will be more cosistent round to round. I have got to get one of these gauges though, next thing on the list.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

They work very well and as advertised. I sat and played with one for about 20 minutes when we were working the booth at SHOT. I would take a dummy round and push it out to about .006 or so and then use the tool to bring it back to .001 or less.

I plan on picking one up soon myself.

 

[TexIndian]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

My $0.02 - mashing the bullet into alignment is not the way to fix concentricity issues. Now the bullet is going to be cock-eyed in relation to the neck (or at least where the neck was before you started mashing things) and neck tension will no longer be consistent. Sounds like something Lee would make. You have to go back to your sizing/seating to cure any concentricity problems.

 

[Suasponte]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

A old post I wrote on "My Concentricity Gage".

If you alreay have the LE Wislon Case trimmer and base your half way there. For about anoter $20 for a drop indicator and $10-15 for the magentic base from Harbor Freight you will have a damn good concentricty setup in my opinion.

Here is the Video.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IwOT0s_c_sk"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IwOT0s_c_sk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

Lots of guys have PM'd and love how it works.

Terry

 

[jlow]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OldTex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My $0.02 - mashing the bullet into alignment is not the way to fix concentricity issues. Now the bullet is going to be cock-eyed in relation to the neck (or at least where the neck was before you started mashing things) and neck tension will no longer be consistent. Sounds like something Lee would make. You have to go back to your sizing/seating to cure any concentricity problems. </div></div>

That is what I thought at first, but in fact if you use it for a while, you will find that what it does is <span style="font-weight: bold">NOT </span>push the bullet to one side or the other to fix a problem in concentricity. What it in fact does is to wiggle the round so that the bullet finds its own natural concentric point.

The “problem” rounds appear to be seated slightly cockeyed and under tension and when you push on it with the gauge, it allows it to wiggle back to its natural concentric point.

After you do the push, all the rounds goes basically to the same location, you can tell this by rotating the brazel of the gauge so that “o” sits there and then you can watch all the rounds that are already concentric points right at it at the get-go or the ones that are off settle to the same location after you do the “push”.

 

[Handloader]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

I have one and use it often. However, with a good seating die, I find less than or equal to 0.002in run-out. I do use it for all my hunting ammo and my hunting buddies ammo, when the ammo is store bought. True, the indicator is not the greatest, but it is good enough.
That said, all things being truthful, my buddy used it, and he felt that his groups opened up a little (he started with 0.3MOA at 100yards). He could not tell me how much his groups opened up, but just said they were "bigger."
I am not a bench-rest shooter, but I am about a 3/4MOA shooter at a 1000 yards (prone with rear bags).

 

[Chanonry]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 725franky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been wondering about run-out gauges / adjusters for sometime.

How much difference do they make (as far as accuracy is concerned)? I just want to know if it would be worth getting / using one or will it be one of those things that you buy and it just ends up on the shelf...

Sorry for the slight off topic...</div></div>

sorry for slow reply.

It is about Quality Assurance. No manufacturing company in the world makes product without a QA/QC process. Why make ammo without one?

The real point is that you can spend some time measuring each stage in your process to ensure that the output quality is up to scratch. This highlights the one or two areas that are crap or variable. Once you have worked out how to fix it and have proved it through measurement then you can back off on the frequency measurement to every few rounds just to verify nothing has slipped.

It was money well spent for me. I proved to myself that most factory ammo is crap and that most reloaded ammo, including mine, is crap. I developed a robust process that consistently delivered low runout rounds. I could also identify the true capability of my overall package by shooting selected low runout rounds from a good rest.

I don't have fliers anymore, I know when I miss...

 

[Infidel2001]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

I have a Hornady Concentricity Gage and love it. I use Redding Comp dies for my 260, 6.5 CM, 308 and 300 WM. The concentrcity is either dead on or off by .01 or .02.

For my .223 and my 22-250, I us the standard Redding dies and those are the ones that are usually off by .04 to .06. Stupid little bullets are hard to handle before going into the press.

 

[adam3999]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

Just bought mine a few days ago and I'm pretty satisfied. Out of 25 newly minted .308 168 SMK rounds, I was happy to find that my highest runout was only ~0.005" with a run of the mill $20 RCBS seating die. As other posters have mentioned, it's easy to bring them all down to ~0.001 with the thumb knob.

I've seen a lot of posts on SH and elsewhere both for and against this unit. As far as I can tell this is the only one allowing you to actually do anything about the results, however. Not sure what the point of the other tools are once you have assembled rounds that are outside of your acceptable spec but have no mechanism to fix them. I have my dial indicator setup just forward of the case mouth on the shank of the bullet.

I checked a box of FGMM .308 168 SMK for giggles. Lot Q21T480. Average was ~0.002.

+/- <0.001
0.002
0.0035
0.0025
0.001
0.0025
0.0015
0.0035
<0.001
0.001
0.0025
0.0025
0.002
0.001
0.0015
0.002
0.003
0.003
0.001
0.002

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Hornady Concentricity Gage

Using my shop made concentiricity gage allows me to check my case necks as well as the seated bullets. Good seaters are important but I've found case necks induce much more runout than seaters; no seater can push a bullet straight into a bent neck.

Only with my gage did I learn that Lee's collet neck die (and a body die for 'FL" sizing) gives me my most concentric cases. THEN my Forster seaters can do very good work!