Horse Power, Track Shit, Torque, Cubic Inches, Liters, Run What Ya Brung, Auto or Cycle

[Shooter McGavin]

Went to Miata's at Hallett this weekend in Hallett Oklahoma.

During my last track day ~3 weeks ago the car was breaking up bad when it got hot(and it was HOT HOT HOT that day, estimated temp on the track was 130). Put new coils and plugs on it. I was also thinking I was still getting fuel varnish dissolving out of my fuel tank(thats been cleaned 2x) so I put a 6 micron inline filter on from Fuelab to try to keep my injector filters from clogging. Also had the fuel rail ultrasonic cleaned. Made all the AN lines with PTFE stuff which wasnt hard.




Car ran like a raped ape for 5 sessions on day 1 at Hallett and 4 sessions on day 2 then under checker when I was cooling the car off it started to break up real bad and I made it back to the pit road and it died and wouldnt restart and had to get pulled back to my pit... fucking hell. Luckily at a large miata event there were lots of guys that know their shit. One guy said "cam sensor, its a known issue and its not really even the sensor its the connector". So there is a fix out for this from Ballenger that they have an updated sensor and they solder wiring directly to the sensor, seal it all with silicon and move the connector and change to a deutsch connector which is supposed to be way better than the delphi style.

Home » Shop » Sensors » Cam/Crank Sensors » Spec Miata CAM Sensor Pigtail

Ballenger Motorsports Spec Miata CAM Sensor Pigtail (SNSR-100561) for only $125.00!

www.bmotorsports.com

Anyway the 9 sessions it did run it was fantastic and I am finally starting to feel towards the limits of the car. We run the track CW one day and CCW the next day. CCW is the normal direction and is about 2 or so seconds faster than CW. I ended up running a 1:33 which I was ecstatic with. I had been running consistent 1:35's and we went and watched the instructor/race car group and saw they were running a FAR different line through at least 3 sections so I told a buddy "im going out session 4 to try those lines, some different gear selection, and try to push my pace through one corner better"... and ended up knocking off 2 seconds and I know there is at least 3 seconds more in the car as a guy with a similar setup, but is a better driver than me ran a 1:29 in the morning when it was cooler. Getting to trust the tires and aero more. Also was really getting used to the brakes. Im learning I have to light brake at first to shift weight then I can really lean into them. They are so much more brake than most other Miata's that people were braking at the 3 markers and I wasnt braking until the 1 marker(or beyond) so you can tell how that went half the time when I was in traffic. But its all fun so I didnt get worried about it.



Hunting... ended up passing my buddy Jeff on basically every session when I caught him. He could pull me slightly in the straights, but i was eating him up in the corners. He's a great driver, but his car setup needs some updates.







I was taking this tight inside line through a series they call the "bus stop" and would always end up on somebodies door because a lot of others were taking this really wide line. We werent allowed to pass in the corners, but several times I had to slam on the brakes because I was actually ahead of the car in front of me coming out of the corner... a bit sketchy, but I try to play by the rules.


I almost caused this white/cream car to go off. He was driving in his mirrors(and I was all over his ass) and he basically forgot to brake and when he did the car was so squirrelly I thought he was going to spin in front of me. Luckily I have far better brakes then him and backed off and as soon as we got through the turn he gave me the pass.


There was a Mustang Mach 1 out there that I put a hurting on I think at least 3 sessions. He would pull me hard in the straights and I would be on his ass in the turns. I dont know if he got a blue flag or not, but I passed him a few times. He had to brake so early that I just ate his ass in the braking zones. I dont have any pics of me chasing him, maybe on my Garmin.

My buddy Jeff and I were chasing each other around and ran up on these two poor souls and then got double pass signals so we split the gap... I cant get the MP4 to embed. Tap the little broken picture icon and should link to the video on my smugmug.

I love racing Hallet. That track is awesome!!!

 

[The D]

Went to Miata's at Hallett this weekend in Hallett Oklahoma.

During my last track day ~3 weeks ago the car was breaking up bad when it got hot(and it was HOT HOT HOT that day, estimated temp on the track was 130). Put new coils and plugs on it. I was also thinking I was still getting fuel varnish dissolving out of my fuel tank(thats been cleaned 2x) so I put a 6 micron inline filter on from Fuelab to try to keep my injector filters from clogging. Also had the fuel rail ultrasonic cleaned. Made all the AN lines with PTFE stuff which wasnt hard.




Car ran like a raped ape for 5 sessions on day 1 at Hallett and 4 sessions on day 2 then under checker when I was cooling the car off it started to break up real bad and I made it back to the pit road and it died and wouldnt restart and had to get pulled back to my pit... fucking hell. Luckily at a large miata event there were lots of guys that know their shit. One guy said "cam sensor, its a known issue and its not really even the sensor its the connector". So there is a fix out for this from Ballenger that they have an updated sensor and they solder wiring directly to the sensor, seal it all with silicon and move the connector and change to a deutsch connector which is supposed to be way better than the delphi style.

Home » Shop » Sensors » Cam/Crank Sensors » Spec Miata CAM Sensor Pigtail

Ballenger Motorsports Spec Miata CAM Sensor Pigtail (SNSR-100561) for only $125.00!

www.bmotorsports.com

Anyway the 9 sessions it did run it was fantastic and I am finally starting to feel towards the limits of the car. We run the track CW one day and CCW the next day. CCW is the normal direction and is about 2 or so seconds faster than CW. I ended up running a 1:33 which I was ecstatic with. I had been running consistent 1:35's and we went and watched the instructor/race car group and saw they were running a FAR different line through at least 3 sections so I told a buddy "im going out session 4 to try those lines, some different gear selection, and try to push my pace through one corner better"... and ended up knocking off 2 seconds and I know there is at least 3 seconds more in the car as a guy with a similar setup, but is a better driver than me ran a 1:29 in the morning when it was cooler. Getting to trust the tires and aero more. Also was really getting used to the brakes. Im learning I have to light brake at first to shift weight then I can really lean into them. They are so much more brake than most other Miata's that people were braking at the 3 markers and I wasnt braking until the 1 marker(or beyond) so you can tell how that went half the time when I was in traffic. But its all fun so I didnt get worried about it.



Hunting... ended up passing my buddy Jeff on basically every session when I caught him. He could pull me slightly in the straights, but i was eating him up in the corners. He's a great driver, but his car setup needs some updates.







I was taking this tight inside line through a series they call the "bus stop" and would always end up on somebodies door because a lot of others were taking this really wide line. We werent allowed to pass in the corners, but several times I had to slam on the brakes because I was actually ahead of the car in front of me coming out of the corner... a bit sketchy, but I try to play by the rules.


I almost caused this white/cream car to go off. He was driving in his mirrors(and I was all over his ass) and he basically forgot to brake and when he did the car was so squirrelly I thought he was going to spin in front of me. Luckily I have far better brakes then him and backed off and as soon as we got through the turn he gave me the pass.


There was a Mustang Mach 1 out there that I put a hurting on I think at least 3 sessions. He would pull me hard in the straights and I would be on his ass in the turns. I dont know if he got a blue flag or not, but I passed him a few times. He had to brake so early that I just ate his ass in the braking zones. I dont have any pics of me chasing him, maybe on my Garmin.

My buddy Jeff and I were chasing each other around and ran up on these two poor souls and then got double pass signals so we split the gap... I cant get the MP4 to embed. Tap the little broken picture icon and should link to the video on my smugmug.

Awesome. I want a sports car so bad…

 

[rjacobs]

I love racing Hallet. That track is awesome!!!

Hallett is great for Miata type cars, but I dont know how it is in larger higher hp cars... it doesnt have the room to run and take advantage of the power before you have to hammer the brakes... There was a guy in a Mach 1 mustang that was braking before the braking markers started... I was braking at the 1 marker LOL... I was just demolishing him in the corners and it only took about 3 corners before I got the pass and ran off from him.

I think the Miata record at Hallett is a 1:19 or a 1:17 and that was done with like 450hp... I have ~150... so 14 seconds faster with 300 more HP... That shows you that track isnt a HP track... My buddy with very similar car to mine ran a 1:29 on Sunday, so 10 seconds off the lap record with 300 less HP...

Thats like Ozark. Guys with 500+ HP were running within 10-15 seconds of us with 150-200hp. There are a few good areas there to stretch legs though, but overall thats a technical track where brute power isnt the answer...

Tracks like COTA, those are tracks where HP matters with long straights and they arent really that much fun in Miata's except to say "i've driven COTA".

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Hallett is great for Miata type cars, but I dont know how it is in larger higher hp cars... it doesnt have the room to run and take advantage of the power before you have to hammer the brakes... There was a guy in a Mach 1 mustang that was braking before the braking markers started... I was braking at the 1 marker LOL... I was just demolishing him in the corners and it only took about 3 corners before I got the pass and ran off from him.

I think the Miata record at Hallett is a 1:19 or a 1:17 and that was done with like 450hp... I have ~150... so 14 seconds faster with 300 more HP... That shows you that track isnt a HP track... My buddy with very similar car to mine ran a 1:29 on Sunday, so 10 seconds off the lap record with 300 less HP...

Thats like Ozark. Guys with 500+ HP were running within 10-15 seconds of us with 150-200hp. There are a few good areas there to stretch legs though, but overall thats a technical track where brute power isnt the answer...

Tracks like COTA, those are tracks where HP matters with long straights and they arent really that much fun in Miata's except to say "i've driven COTA".

My car is electronically limited to 363 HP at the wheels. The cars weight is 3,630 pounds with driver and added weight.

 

[rjacobs]

My car is electronically limited to 363 HP at the wheels. The cars weight is 3,630 pounds with driver and added weight.

nice. Consistent 1:25. Thats pretty much the line I drive. Im a little wider through 10 and dont double apex. My speed through 1 is similar as im entering about 70mph, but my car has probably 5mph of grip left in it which I need to grow some balls and use LOL. You are able to charge down the front straight and over the hill faster than me with a lot more HP.

Have you been since they put the tunnel in? There is a nasty dip in between 9 and 10 where they need to tear out the pavement and re-do it. Its sinking. You just have to charge across it and eat it.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

nice. Consistent 1:25. Thats pretty much the line I drive. Im a little wider through 10 and dont double apex. My speed through 1 is similar as im entering about 70mph, but my car has probably 5mph of grip left in it which I need to grow some balls and use LOL. You are able to charge down the front straight and over the hill faster than me with a lot more HP.

Have you been since they put the tunnel in? There is a nasty dip in between 9 and 10 where they need to tear out the pavement and re-do it. Its sinking. You just have to charge across it and eat it.

It's been 4 years since I was last there. This was the last time I was on the track as I hit the orange Porsche on the next lap in turn two.

 

[rjacobs]

This was the last time I was on the track as I hit the orange Porsche on the next lap in turn two.

That sucks, but not surprising... IMO turn 2/3 are where car on car contact would occur if anywhere on that track...

I ALWAYS drive the tight line there and so many others go stupid wide... A few times I was like "oh shit, im now IN FRONT OF the other car" and we werent allowed to pass in the turns at the event last weekend. A lot of other times I was setup to t-bone the a-pillar/door of another car as my picture above with the S2000 shows... Its sketchy if people go wide through 2/3(or 3/2 if going CW which we did on Saturday)...

 

[Shooter McGavin]

That sucks, but not surprising... IMO turn 2/3 are where car on car contact would occur if anywhere on that track...

I ALWAYS drive the tight line there and so many others go stupid wide... A few times I was like "oh shit, im now IN FRONT OF the other car" and we werent allowed to pass in the turns at the event last weekend. A lot of other times I was setup to t-bone the a-pillar/door of another car as my picture above with the S2000 shows... Its sketchy if people go wide through 2/3(or 3/2 if going CW which we did on Saturday)...

I was carrying too much speed into T2 and the braking is down hill so, I should have hit the brakes earlier than I did. I took the inside line and he took the outside line. I T boned him into the tire wall. Sucked all around.

 

[E. Bryant]

Pistons showed up today... about six weeks early

That's not much dish for a motor that's going to run 18+ PSI, but this is what all the cool kids are doing nowadays. Time for a gut check, and then a trip to the machine shop to get the block bored and decked, and the rotating assembly balanced.

 

[The D]

It’ll be enough if you run the corn juice

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Bottom is together and rotating nice

 

[fpgt72]

Went to Miata's at Hallett this weekend in Hallett Oklahoma.

During my last track day ~3 weeks ago the car was breaking up bad when it got hot(and it was HOT HOT HOT that day, estimated temp on the track was 130). Put new coils and plugs on it. I was also thinking I was still getting fuel varnish dissolving out of my fuel tank(thats been cleaned 2x) so I put a 6 micron inline filter on from Fuelab to try to keep my injector filters from clogging. Also had the fuel rail ultrasonic cleaned. Made all the AN lines with PTFE stuff which wasnt hard.




Car ran like a raped ape for 5 sessions on day 1 at Hallett and 4 sessions on day 2 then under checker when I was cooling the car off it started to break up real bad and I made it back to the pit road and it died and wouldnt restart and had to get pulled back to my pit... fucking hell. Luckily at a large miata event there were lots of guys that know their shit. One guy said "cam sensor, its a known issue and its not really even the sensor its the connector". So there is a fix out for this from Ballenger that they have an updated sensor and they solder wiring directly to the sensor, seal it all with silicon and move the connector and change to a deutsch connector which is supposed to be way better than the delphi style.

Home » Shop » Sensors » Cam/Crank Sensors » Spec Miata CAM Sensor Pigtail

Ballenger Motorsports Spec Miata CAM Sensor Pigtail (SNSR-100561) for only $125.00!

www.bmotorsports.com

Anyway the 9 sessions it did run it was fantastic and I am finally starting to feel towards the limits of the car. We run the track CW one day and CCW the next day. CCW is the normal direction and is about 2 or so seconds faster than CW. I ended up running a 1:33 which I was ecstatic with. I had been running consistent 1:35's and we went and watched the instructor/race car group and saw they were running a FAR different line through at least 3 sections so I told a buddy "im going out session 4 to try those lines, some different gear selection, and try to push my pace through one corner better"... and ended up knocking off 2 seconds and I know there is at least 3 seconds more in the car as a guy with a similar setup, but is a better driver than me ran a 1:29 in the morning when it was cooler. Getting to trust the tires and aero more. Also was really getting used to the brakes. Im learning I have to light brake at first to shift weight then I can really lean into them. They are so much more brake than most other Miata's that people were braking at the 3 markers and I wasnt braking until the 1 marker(or beyond) so you can tell how that went half the time when I was in traffic. But its all fun so I didnt get worried about it.



Hunting... ended up passing my buddy Jeff on basically every session when I caught him. He could pull me slightly in the straights, but i was eating him up in the corners. He's a great driver, but his car setup needs some updates.







I was taking this tight inside line through a series they call the "bus stop" and would always end up on somebodies door because a lot of others were taking this really wide line. We werent allowed to pass in the corners, but several times I had to slam on the brakes because I was actually ahead of the car in front of me coming out of the corner... a bit sketchy, but I try to play by the rules.


I almost caused this white/cream car to go off. He was driving in his mirrors(and I was all over his ass) and he basically forgot to brake and when he did the car was so squirrelly I thought he was going to spin in front of me. Luckily I have far better brakes then him and backed off and as soon as we got through the turn he gave me the pass.


There was a Mustang Mach 1 out there that I put a hurting on I think at least 3 sessions. He would pull me hard in the straights and I would be on his ass in the turns. I dont know if he got a blue flag or not, but I passed him a few times. He had to brake so early that I just ate his ass in the braking zones. I dont have any pics of me chasing him, maybe on my Garmin.

My buddy Jeff and I were chasing each other around and ran up on these two poor souls and then got double pass signals so we split the gap... I cant get the MP4 to embed. Tap the little broken picture icon and should link to the video on my smugmug.

I left the SCCA around 2002-2003-ish. SCCA was starting to have some real growing pains from the old production guys "me", and the new guys.

Some clown from SCCA at the drivers meeting, or perhaps meating, said we are very open to all kinds of cars and classes, just look at how many classes you can race a Miata in. I really thought he was a dead man. The crowd got pretty audible with the low growl when people start talking to themselves and are not really happy with what was just said.

I had to quit not long after that.

 

[fpgt72]

I love racing Hallet. That track is awesome!!!

I was there 20 years ago, in an old dodge motor home pulling a 24' trailer. I go to hit an off ramp somewhere and the motorhome will not turn.....oh boy this is not good. I man handle the thing around the turn and onto the shoulder. Turns out the power steering pump had basically blown in half. Pully was still turning just fine so I drove it to the track that way. Took that belt off and drove that fucking thing all the way back to kansas city with no power steering. That really sucked.

I seem to remember gas stations being few and far between out there.

 

[rjacobs]

I left the SCCA around 2002-2003-ish. SCCA was starting to have some real growing pains from the old production guys "me", and the new guys.

Some clown from SCCA at the drivers meeting, or perhaps meating, said we are very open to all kinds of cars and classes, just look at how many classes you can race a Miata in. I really thought he was a dead man. The crowd got pretty audible with the low growl when people start talking to themselves and are not really happy with what was just said.

I had to quit not long after that.

SCCA to me is a huge behemoth that doesnt change with the times. Look at their Auto-X stuff.... there is like 9000 classes, yet only like 5 that people actually run in... how bout get rid of the other 8995 and make shit simpler... I tried to go auto-x my miata, they asked "what class" I said "I dont know, its a full up race car with cage, aero, etc..." they said "if you dont know then you cant run" I told them "I dont give a fuck to be classed, I just want to play with my car"... Then they have these "track nights in America" events... I cant run because I have "to much" safety stuff... OEM seat belts are required, horn, etc... I dont have that. Then anybody that I have talked to that has gone says its a shit show... first time on track guys in the advanced group because "they have a Corvette/Porsche/M3" yet they dont know you have to point people by or what anything but green and checkered flags mean... but thats ok because im not allowed due to "to much safety equipment"...

NASA has come a long way and im going to try to hit some of their events next year. You basically start off in HPDE 1, 2 or 3 depending on your prior track experience then you move up via check rides and I think once you hit HPDE 6, then you can take a check ride and get a race license. This all happens during their race weekends so on your breaks you can watch wheel 2 wheel racing.

Champ car is big now as is 24 hours of lemons, WRL, etc... because they arent as stuffy as SCCA.

I didnt renew my SCCA membership this year.

 

[fpgt72]

SCCA to me is a huge behemoth that doesnt change with the times. Look at their Auto-X stuff.... there is like 9000 classes, yet only like 5 that people actually run in... how bout get rid of the other 8995 and make shit simpler... I tried to go auto-x my miata, they asked "what class" I said "I dont know, its a full up race car with cage, aero, etc..." they said "if you dont know then you cant run" I told them "I dont give a fuck to be classed, I just want to play with my car"... Then they have these "track nights in America" events... I cant run because I have "to much" safety stuff... OEM seat belts are required, horn, etc... I dont have that. Then anybody that I have talked to that has gone says its a shit show... first time on track guys in the advanced group because "they have a Corvette/Porsche/M3" yet they dont know you have to point people by or what anything but green and checkered flags mean... but thats ok because im not allowed due to "to much safety equipment"...

NASA has come a long way and im going to try to hit some of their events next year. You basically start off in HPDE 1, 2 or 3 depending on your prior track experience then you move up via check rides and I think once you hit HPDE 6, then you can take a check ride and get a race license. This all happens during their race weekends so on your breaks you can watch wheel 2 wheel racing.

Champ car is big now as is 24 hours of lemons, WRL, etc... because they arent as stuffy as SCCA.

I didnt renew my SCCA membership this year.

I could not agree more, when I quit NASA was just really getting going. The road racers started to get tired footing the bill for their "pro series" and the people that play in a parking lot with cones. NASA had some events at mud ohio but nothing closer to me. Plus my body had already started to fall apart.

I still have my car, and it is a real bitch to get in and out of it....but I can do it. I have ideas of sticking another seat in it and doing some of the open road races like big bend or sand hills. I have all the safety crap in the car and a very tall rear gear for it, might be fun.

On the other hand doing it in something like a newer mustang or corvette would be much more comfy.

 

[E. Bryant]

I left the SCCA around 2002-2003-ish. SCCA was starting to have some real growing pains from the old production guys "me", and the new guys.

Some clown from SCCA at the drivers meeting, or perhaps meating, said we are very open to all kinds of cars and classes, just look at how many classes you can race a Miata in. I really thought he was a dead man. The crowd got pretty audible with the low growl when people start talking to themselves and are not really happy with what was just said.

I had to quit not long after that.

The SCCA has a relevancy problem similar to that of the NHRA - it could be described as a group of the Boomers by the Boomers for the Boomers. Your description of the Miata problem is spot-on; wide swaths of the sport are effectively closed off to people with the "wrong" car because of the way that the rules get crafted. I can show up to a Solo event in a car with a $5000 set of shocks and be OK to run in the Street class, but the dude that rolls in with a cold-air intake or a set of aftermarket camber bolts on the front struts of his daily-driver gets bumped to one of the ST classes where he'll get eaten alive by the $40k car-of-the-week or a 30-year-old Civic Si. Please don't show up with anything like an LS-swapped 240Z unless you want to run in the Modified classes alongside real race cars. This type of stuff makes no sense to outsiders and is the source of endless aggravation.

If I had a proper budget, I'd go run something like Optima Ultimate Street Car that has a ruleset which allows owners to build the sort of street car that people might actually want to build. If I was on a tight budget and looking for the most seat time for my dollar, then LeMons fits the bill. Track days are probably the best venue for the novice who thinks that driving is preferable to chasing cones around a parking lot for a few hours. I don't know much about the drift scene, but it appears pretty cool and I don't think they spend a lot of time arguing about the legality of your spring perches.

There have been a few signs of life within the SCCA - Track Night in America, the time trial series, and the CAM classes in Solo - but it doesn't yet feel like actual transformative change.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I decided to change some things up. Im selling the 5.3 and buying a TSP Iron Giant short block. its a 6.6 LT (L8T block to be exact) thats bored out to a 7.0/427ci. Those stock blocks hold ridiculous power and love the boost. Shooting for mid 4's to the 1/8. The motor will never limit this car. I may end up needing a better built TH400, though. Currently has a lvl 4.5 Th400 3 speed. I see a $12k transmission in my future, unfortunately.

 

[E. Bryant]

Got a piece of billet artwork about the size of a XL pizza box yesterday:

It’ll be enough if you run the corn juice

That's the plan. Trying to figure out what size showerheads to install next, since the ID1050x injectors that seemed way oversized a few years ago are going to be inadequate even on pump gas.

 

[E. Bryant]

I decided to change some things up. Im selling the 5.3 and buying a TSP Iron Giant short block. its a 6.6 LT (L8T block to be exact) thats bored out to a 7.0/427ci. Those stock blocks hold ridiculous power and love the boost. Shooting for mid 4's to the 1/8. The motor will never limit this car. I may end up needing a better built TH400, though. Currently has a lvl 4.5 Th400 3 speed. I see a $12k transmission in my future, unfortunately.

I'm using a modified L8T crank in my build. That motor is indeed stout; the head gaskets should be the weakest link (which is good because that's way cheaper than finding the limit by bending rods into funny shapes).

 

[Cowpokey]

Mike Rowe takes on 1,000hp. Pretty entertaining.

 

[fpgt72]

How many of these horsepowers do you need to join this club. Will 50 get me in the door? Being a 50+ year old Italian she is always wanting something. Always wants attn. If you have a sharp eye you will see that her ass (car not wife, just incase she reads this) is starting to sag a bit. New springs are in order, however I am still in sticker shock over that. Sooner or later it will happen. It really is a fun little car to drive.

Sub 1L motoring is quite fun.

Edit to add, I actually have another that is in better shape then this one, but currently in about a million parts. I do have a fresh engine for it however. I keep tossing around the idea of a repower. I know one guy on youtube that did a motorcycle engine in one, and another guy did the same to an S800 honda. They look like they would be hella fun.

No pics of that one however.

 

[96coal449]

If you have a sharp eye you will see that her ass (car not wife, just incase she reads this) is starting to sag a bit

 

[fpgt72]

Skip to about 9 min in for the first test drive. I don't want this in mine, I want it 100% to look un modified.

 

[LRI]

Since everyone else seems to be confused about gender, why not?

GM 6.2L DI heads converted to fit a Ford Windsor block. This project is being campaigned by a friend who owns a race engine company in Vermont. (Josh Munson, Green Mountain Gearheads) It started a year or so ago when he plopped some LS3 heads onto a Cleveland block dug out of a boneyard. The only thing done was altering the heads to fit the block and having a camshaft made to flip-flop the I/X lobes. The cardio was provided by a Wuhan Wheezer turbo and it was thrown on the dyno until its expiration date was found. A connecting rod made a new picture window in the block at the mid-800 mark.

A seed was planted... This new setup makes the gender swap pretty easy as the new GM DI stuff has the same I/X valve config as the Fords. -Camshaft selection just got a whole lot easier. The bolt pattern is almost a direct swap. The only real work is creating new counterbores for the alignment bushings. This new one is getting all the good parts down low.

Very cool.

 

[E. Bryant]

This comparison of port vs direct injection was eye-opening:

Port vs Direct Injection Brian Tooley Racing Reveals a Clear Winner

Before now Brian Tooley would tell you port injection produces more power than direct injection. But recent testing tells another tale.

www.lsxmag.com

So yeah, the GenV stuff flows pretty good, but there are substantial additional gains to be had by removing fuel vapor from the intake port.

 

[fpgt72]

This comparison of port vs direct injection was eye-opening:

Port vs Direct Injection Brian Tooley Racing Reveals a Clear Winner

Before now Brian Tooley would tell you port injection produces more power than direct injection. But recent testing tells another tale.

www.lsxmag.com

So yeah, the GenV stuff flows pretty good, but there are substantial additional gains to be had by removing fuel vapor from the intake port.

I don't know much about that new fangled fool impregnation or whatever.

Are they exactly the same? Or is this a little like saying a 4 barrel makes more power then a two? If things are not equal, same fuel amount same air amount then how can you say one is better then the other. I always had issues with this kind of thing.

 

[rjacobs]

Got the car running again on a new OEM crank sensor...

I had an aftermarket Beck Arnley on it that failed.

The car started up but was still not sync'd properly between cam and crank and was struggling to idle.

My tuner said "switch the ignition pickup from falling edge to rising edge" which fixed it right up. Were thinking the aftermarket crank sensors are possibly wired backwards internally or the hall sensor is upside down or something. Probably on a factory 4 tooth pickup wheel it doesnt matter, but im running a 36-2 crank wheel so it has a lot more resolution which is good or bad depending on how you look at it! Had to adjust timing offset in the ecu by 7.5 degrees. With a 36-2 you have about 9.5 degrees per tooth minus the off time so when you are reading from the front of the tooth(rising) vs. the back of the tooth(falling) ~7.5 degrees timing change makes sense.

Also put on the new cam sensor with Amphenol connector. So hopefully changing both will keep the damn car running so I can actually have fun with it and not worry about when its going to fuck up again.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Did something silly over the weekend. Found a cheap set of race wheels, and they came with free half used Hoosier R7's. It's been a fun few days looking for empty backroads with curves that can challenge these tires.
That said, the honeymoon is over, the obvious negatives of race tires on the road have already driven me crazy. I'll miss the grip though.

 

[E. Bryant]

I don't know much about that new fangled fool impregnation or whatever.

Are they exactly the same? Or is this a little like saying a 4 barrel makes more power then a two? If things are not equal, same fuel amount same air amount then how can you say one is better then the other. I always had issues with this kind of thing.

Gasoline direct injection squirts the fuel directly into the combustion chamber. The amount of fuel (particularly oxygenated fuels, like various alcohols) required to support 700+ HP is not trivial. By removing that fuel from the intake port, more volume is available for airflow. That's a great thing for making power. This effect would be even more pronounced with forced injection due to the increased fuel flow requirement.

I'd always considered the main benefit of direct injection to be related to better detonation resistance and improved emissions (cam overlap doesn't result in raw fuel entering the exhaust stream), but those pale in comparison to the HP improvements demonstrated by this test.

 

[LRI]

This comparison of port vs direct injection was eye-opening:

Port vs Direct Injection Brian Tooley Racing Reveals a Clear Winner

Before now Brian Tooley would tell you port injection produces more power than direct injection. But recent testing tells another tale.

www.lsxmag.com

So yeah, the GenV stuff flows pretty good, but there are substantial additional gains to be had by removing fuel vapor from the intake port.

Unfortunately, Direct Injection, for now anyway, is not an end-all solution when reaching the stars on power. It's a bit application-specific. For a normally aspirated or low psi boost condition, typical daily driver type vehicle, the way it stands, there's a ceiling regarding the ultimate power output. The discharge pattern from the injector is very carefully controlled. The whole idea is so that as the piston is running away from the combustion chamber (intake stroke), the fuel is introduced to the income airstream in a manner that prevents it from coalescing on the cylinder wall, spark plug boss, top of the piston, etc...

The brick wall starts to show itself when power adders crank up the sneeze. The duration (dwell) that the injector is open is quite small/short with a DI setup. The duty cycle of the injector goes into the stratosphere when it attempts to keep pace with a high-density airstream created by a cranked-up blower/turbocharger or "garden hose" nitrous system. It's only further annoyed when the engine is swapped over to an ethanol fuel (Methanol is even worse) because the "stoich" volumes increase dramatically. This is why the super high-output, modern-day cars, are falling back onto to a 2nd set of injectors plumbed back into the intake runners of the manifold whenever someone starts throwing multiple atmospheres of boost at an engine.

The one saving grace with this is that if the person doing the machine work is on his game, and an aftermarket type ECU is being used (Dominator, etc.), it is possible to make good power and still be reasonably efficient. We've played with this some on my drag car. Going to a BIG injector makes the duty cycle lower. A higher volume of fuel can be administered in a shorter amount of time. Doing so allowed us to squirt a big ol, fatty glob of fuel right at the top of the intake valve when it is the hottest (just after the X-stroke). The fuel flashes to vapor almost instantly. The bottom half of the intake runner is now full of a high-density fog of vaporized fuel. (not atomized) The intake valve opens, and off it goes at lightning speed (hopefully) into the jug. Done correctly, it makes for a nice boom in the combustion chamber that doesn't show a whole lot of bad stuff. (black soot piled up around the plug boss or on the back side of the dome on a piston)

 

[fpgt72]

So we have established you don't need bunches of these horses powers to play here. How about this. The engine came out of the 63 bug I am redoing. I have no idea how long it sat before I got it, then it has been on a stand in my shop for at least 10 years. Getting closer to starting it up on the stand and I popped off the covers to set the valves. I was shocked at how clean it is in there.

Now for the question anyone know what this 710 cap is for, I just can't figure it out.

And as I know some people around here are about as sharp as a bowling ball and just as hard headed, this is a joke.

 

[The D]

So we have established you don't need bunches of these horses powers to play here. How about this. The engine came out of the 63 bug I am redoing. I have no idea how long it sat before I got it, then it has been on a stand in my shop for at least 10 years. Getting closer to starting it up on the stand and I popped off the covers to set the valves. I was shocked at how clean it is in there.

View attachment 8227688

Now for the question anyone know what this 710 cap is for, I just can't figure it out.

View attachment 8227689

And as I know some people around here are about as sharp as a bowling ball and just as hard headed, this is a joke.

Lots of German stuff is classified and alphabetized by a manufacturer specific number system so you’ll just have to track down an old factory service manual. It’s probably important though so don’t do anything until you figure this out

 

[fpgt72]

Lots of German stuff is classified and alphabetized by a manufacturer specific number system so you’ll just have to track down an old factory service manual. It’s probably important though so don’t do anything until you figure this out

If you do old car things, and old foreign cars you really can't go wrong with these guys:

Bentley Publishers Home - Bentley Publishers - Repair Manuals and Automotive Books

They are basically reprints of the old shop manuals, many times the factory manuals. Sometimes they reference special tools that just don't exist anymore, but usually you can figure out something to work, or the fourms have done it before. They are pretty expensive, and you real feel bad the first time you put a grease smudge on that nice hard cover book, but it is a shop manual. In my shop in one of the cabinets there is a mess of them.

In the VW world this is the Bible:

Really a fantastic book in normal english. The pictures are also fantastic with the art work being just fun.

 

[E. Bryant]

Unfortunately, Direct Injection, for now anyway, is not an end-all solution when reaching the stars on power. It's a bit application-specific. For a normally aspirated or low psi boost condition, typical daily driver type vehicle, the way it stands, there's a ceiling regarding the ultimate power output. The discharge pattern from the injector is very carefully controlled. The whole idea is so that as the piston is running away from the combustion chamber (intake stroke), the fuel is introduced to the income airstream in a manner that prevents it from coalescing on the cylinder wall, spark plug boss, top of the piston, etc...

The brick wall starts to show itself when power adders crank up the sneeze. The duration (dwell) that the injector is open is quite small/short with a DI setup. The duty cycle of the injector goes into the stratosphere when it attempts to keep pace with a high-density airstream created by a cranked-up blower/turbocharger or "garden hose" nitrous system. It's only further annoyed when the engine is swapped over to an ethanol fuel (Methanol is even worse) because the "stoich" volumes increase dramatically. This is why the super high-output, modern-day cars, are falling back onto to a 2nd set of injectors plumbed back into the intake runners of the manifold whenever someone starts throwing multiple atmospheres of boost at an engine.

The one saving grace with this is that if the person doing the machine work is on his game, and an aftermarket type ECU is being used (Dominator, etc.), it is possible to make good power and still be reasonably efficient. We've played with this some on my drag car. Going to a BIG injector makes the duty cycle lower. A higher volume of fuel can be administered in a shorter amount of time. Doing so allowed us to squirt a big ol, fatty glob of fuel right at the top of the intake valve when it is the hottest (just after the X-stroke). The fuel flashes to vapor almost instantly. The bottom half of the intake runner is now full of a high-density fog of vaporized fuel. (not atomized) The intake valve opens, and off it goes at lightning speed (hopefully) into the jug. Done correctly, it makes for a nice boom in the combustion chamber that doesn't show a whole lot of bad stuff. (black soot piled up around the plug boss or on the back side of the dome on a piston)

No disagreements on the present limitations of GDI technology when making four-figure power numbers - even factory applications have utilized port injectors for various reasons, including fuel flow at high load. But the diesel guys have been making advancements in this area ever since common-rail became a thing, and with support for engines like the GenV LTx growing by the day, these problems will be addressed. They just won't be cheap fixes at first - gonna be fun to spend $500+/injector + a belt-driven high-pressure fuel pump.

GM ECMs have included tables for injection events vs crank angle ever since sequential injection became a thing. For emission purposes at low RPM, the strategy that you describe is indeed utilized (it falls apart at higher speeds since there's usually not enough injector to afford any flexibility in timing - >80% DC is unfortunately common).

 

[E. Bryant]

Working on learning about this newfangled VVT stuff. This is on a GM LFX (3.6L DOHC V6); the exhaust cam gets "parked" at full advance, and the intake cam is "parked" at full retard (minimum overlap). Positive values in the tables cause the exhaust cam to be retarded and the intake cam to be advanced (increasing overlap).

Here's the OE intake calibration:

There's something obviously weird going on around 2000-3000 RPM and 0.28-0.52 g of cylinder airmass. This represents an engine load of about 35-70% load at that point in the rev range, so this is an area that's frequently visited in normal driving. I'm not sure what the reason is for this calibration, but I suspect it's done as a poor man's Miller cycle, where the intake valve is held open longer than normal in order to decrease cylinder pressure. It's also possible that this is done to reduce overlap in this range of operation, although that makes less sense.

Let's smooth that out a little bit:

The OE exhaust table shows somewhat similar behavior:

i did some similar smoothing:

We'll put some miles on it during the commute this week to see if it feels better.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Mild street engine for my 1993 Mustang. Balanced stock crank and rods, Wiseco pistons, ported and milled Twisted Wedge 170 heads, custom Jones camshaft. I'm hoping for 350hp to the tires.

 

[The D]

Working on learning about this newfangled VVT stuff. This is on a GM LFX (3.6L DOHC V6); the exhaust cam gets "parked" at full advance, and the intake cam is "parked" at full retard (minimum overlap). Positive values in the tables cause the exhaust cam to be retarded and the intake cam to be advanced (increasing overlap).

Here's the OE intake calibration:

View attachment 8228652

There's something obviously weird going on around 2000-3000 RPM and 0.28-0.52 g of cylinder airmass. This represents an engine load of about 35-70% load at that point in the rev range, so this is an area that's frequently visited in normal driving. I'm not sure what the reason is for this calibration, but I suspect it's done as a poor man's Miller cycle, where the intake valve is held open longer than normal in order to decrease cylinder pressure. It's also possible that this is done to reduce overlap in this range of operation, although that makes less sense.

Let's smooth that out a little bit:

View attachment 8228651

The OE exhaust table shows somewhat similar behavior:

View attachment 8228650

i did some similar smoothing:

View attachment 8228649

We'll put some miles on it during the commute this week to see if it feels better.

I’ve always wondered how much power is available with these tables. Will be interested in your road tests during the week

 

[BoilerUP]

What model vehicle are you LFX tuning?

 

[E. Bryant]

I’ve always wondered how much power is available with these tables. Will be interested in your road tests during the week

What model vehicle are you LFX tuning?

The vehicle is a 2014 Camaro LS with a manual, so it's easy to load the engine in a way that an automatic wouldn't allow. The LFX has a pretty good dip in the torque curve right around 2k, and guess where it's quite natural to run the engine during normal commuting? This isn't a search for WOT power so much as improved driveability - she already pulls to redline really strong (well, as long as I forget how the ZL1 behaves).

My initial feedback to the above changes to the VVT tables is favorable. Next, I'm going to chase down the source of ignition retard during transient throttle. I can tip into the gas after completing a typical upshift (a 2-3 shift at 3k ends at 1900 RPM) and watch the knock retard go nuts. It's not unusual to see 10-12°, which then leaves total advance at about 10° - at which point it falls on its face for a few moments. A contributing factor is that previous tweaks to the power enrichment setting appear to have been unsuccessful at providing enrichment in this area of operation, so I've got some more exploring to do.

 

[fpgt72]

You guys talk of this new fangled stuff. I have zero clue what you are saying.

 

[rjacobs]

I'm going to chase down the source of ignition retard during transient throttle. I can tip into the gas after completing a typical upshift (a 2-3 shift at 3k ends at 1900 RPM) and watch the knock retard go nuts. It's not unusual to see 10-12°, which then leaves total advance at about 10° - at which point it falls on its face for a few moments. A contributing factor is that previous tweaks to the power enrichment setting appear to have been unsuccessful at providing enrichment in this area of operation, so I've got some more exploring to do.

Sounds like some GM torque management to try to keep from exploding marginal transmission and rear end designs...

 

[MadDuner]

You guys talk of this new fangled stuff. I have zero clue what you are saying.

The TPS and MAP work together to let the ECU know when it's at WOT, but at idle the IAC keeps that AFM in check, and at the proper RPM.
Copy?

 

[fpgt72]

The TPS and MAP work together to let the ECU know when it's at WOT, but at idle the IAC keeps that AFM in check, and at the proper RPM.
Copy?

I worked in a Chevy dealer up to about 1990-ish. This stuff was just coming into the main stream. My hate of all this stuff is based off that time frame and the horror I had to deal with around GM fuel injectors and cross-fire injection. Finding out what is wrong was a little key that jumped two terminals on the OBDC panel and counting flashing lights. Blink.............blink blink.............blink.............blink blink, code 12, what is that. Oh O2 sensor, and it was never the sensor, always something else somewhere else. It fucking sucked.

A carb, points, normal dizzy and I am good to go. It will not start, easy, unscrew a spark plug, stick finger over hole, if in cranking it blows your finger away from the hole, it should have enough compression to start. If it shocked the hell out of your other hand while holding the plug then it has fire. Squirt of something that will burn in the carb it should run for a sec or at least try. Move on from there.

But I do agree in modern cars you don't have this to deal with. New is on the way. That is just how the wires are when I took the cap off just amazing.

I did finish up the starting stand, and I will run when I am ready. At least it should. I think the compression is good, my compression tester seems to have bought the farm, cheap ass Snapon tools, zero quality....I mean come on they are only 50 years old, geeze.

After getting the dizzy sorted and some form of exhaust I will be good to go. The gages are the most inexpensive I could find on the jungle store, they should work for this.

 

[BoilerUP]

Sounds like some GM torque management to try to keep from exploding marginal transmission and rear end designs...

Not gonna happen on a V6 Camaro...but yeah GM torque management sucks.

 

[rjacobs]

Not gonna happen on a V6 Camaro...but yeah GM torque management sucks.

oh im not arguing a V6 camaro probably doesnt NEED it... BUT... GM torque management is present almost everywhere since everything is rated to the bare minimum it can be. The TR3160 is rated at like 310 ft. lbs... the LFX puts out ~280ft. lbs... not a lot of overhead. Not like a TR6060 thats rated at 600ft. lbs. and they are hooked to engines that are generally around 400-450 ft. lbs. from the factory. Good amount of overhead.

Torque Management is on every make and model to try to keep shit together...

The new 6.7 HO on the superduty rated to 1200ft. lbs... MAYBE puts that out in like 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th gear... It definitely doesnt in 1, 2 or 3 due to the chance of destroying the trans is to much. Then 8-10 are overdrives and they cant handle the full torque either... Guess what? when you NEED that 1200ft. lbs. is in 1st, 2nd or 3rd to get your load moving... you dont need it necessarily at 40+ mph... so whats the point of a 1200lb rated engine when you really cant use it and when its actually maybe available, you dont really need it? dick measuring...

 

[E. Bryant]

Sounds like some GM torque management to try to keep from exploding marginal transmission and rear end designs...

Nope - this ECM (E39A) has better ways of implementing torque management than cutting spark advance. This isn't 2001 anymore. There are some tables that establish torque limit vs throttle position vs VSS, and then the ECM controls airflow to limit the torque by referencing a number of other Mean Best Torque tables related to total timing, intake air temp, cam position, etc.

Ignition lead angle can be used to limit torque in certain situations like traction and stability control requests, but I'm reasonably confident that's not an issue doing a 4th-gear roll at 1800 RPM.

FWIW, the rear diff on manual V6 Camaros is pretty beefy (the same 8.6" unit used on V8 models, including the LS7 Z28). The transmission is a Aisin (Toyota) unit; reasonably strong but also the clunkiest control in the entire car. The Tremec box in my ZL1 handles triple the torque with half the shift effort.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Well, $9500 later, I've got a built L8T short block on the way. Same short block that produced 2077 hp on an engine dyno with twin 76s.

 

[rjacobs]

Anybody have a decent source for LS2 or other aluminum 6.0 blocks or short blocks that arent raped by BFC priced?

Starting to look for parts to LS swap the Miata and everything local to me is stupid fucking money for a junkyard pull... Sorry not paying 3k bucks for a 195k mile junkyard pull longblock...

Looking at doing a de-stroked LS2 with a 4.8 crank to slow piston speed down when spinning to 7500-8k RPM. Probably throw some 821 LS3 heads on it so it can breath. Some kind of solid roller lifters and roller rockers.

 

[E. Bryant]

Around here, Facebook Marketplace is the place to be. I agree that junkyard and Internet pricing is getting stupid. These engines aren't rare or made of gold.

I personally wouldn't destroke an LS - you'll likely run into valvetrain issues before piston speed becomes an issue. 7k is a nice target IMO, and a standard 3.622" crank will run that quite comfortably. Also, the big rec-port heads might be a bit soggy lower in the powerband with a smaller motor (they're already kinda big for a 6.0). Maybe that's not a problem in your application, but I've often enjoyed having a nice broad powerband on the track.

Given that this is going into a light car, an aluminum 5.3 with 243/799 cathedral-port heads and the right cam would rip pretty hard, and might be somewhat easier on the budget.

You'll learn more from a single Richard Holdener video than from any of my blabbing, and he's got hundreds of hours of dyno testing and analysis posted for free on YouTube.

 

[rjacobs]

Around here, Facebook Marketplace is the place to be. I agree that junkyard and Internet pricing is getting stupid. These engines aren't rare or made of gold.

I personally wouldn't destroke an LS - you'll likely run into valvetrain issues before piston speed becomes an issue. 7k is a nice target IMO, and a standard 3.622" crank will run that quite comfortably. Also, the big rec-port heads might be a bit soggy lower in the powerband with a smaller motor (they're already kinda big for a 6.0). Maybe that's not a problem in your application, but I've often enjoyed having a nice broad powerband on the track.

Given that this is going into a light car, an aluminum 5.3 with 243/799 cathedral-port heads and the right cam would rip pretty hard, and might be somewhat easier on the budget.

You'll learn more from a single Richard Holdener video than from any of my blabbing, and he's got hundreds of hours of dyno testing and analysis posted for free on YouTube.

Yea an LC9(aluminum 5.3 with 243 heads) is in the picture for sure and if I find a long block pull out at a decent price, likely where I will go. I can find them all day long, but 2500-3500 bucks for something with 150-200k miles is steep... I still have to put a 400+ oil pan on the thing and a car intake manifold... the LS6 manifolds are pricey...LS2 manifolds arent as good and are still pricey... Thats half of why I am thinking of just building one from a bare block if I can find a block for ~500 give or take.

I should be able to spin a de-stroked 6.0 up to at least 7500 with solid roller lifters, roller rockers, dual springs, titanium retainers, light valves, etc...