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Horse Power, Track Shit, Torque, Cubic Inches, Liters, Run What Ya Brung, Auto or Cycle

BLKWLFK9 said:
Talk to Aaron Shoal from SDPC. He just spec'd out my cam for this new build. Great people to deal with and Aaron's personal race car is a bad mother fucker.
Click to expand...

Will do.

The issue I am finding is nobody that I found, so far, makes a shelf "road course" cam... and 99% of the cams they spec/build are fairly wild NA cams, turbo cams, PD blower cams, nitrous cams, etc... They seem to spec out everything for drag racing.

The other is IF I build this de-stroked 6.0 its obviously going to require a custom cam... well if all of your "shelf" cams are for drag racing, what confidence do I have in getting a "good" custom cam grind for road course use... I ran a BTR cam in my LS7 and it made excellent power, but when you respond to an email with a "phoned in" response its hard for me to want to go back...
 
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rjacobs said:
I dont think so... at least I havent found any reference.

Looks like people either use Camaro LS3, V8R headers or Sanderson supposedly makes a set of block huggers that fit.

Honestly the Camaro LS3 will flow plenty for the power I am trying to make. If this car has 300whp it will be a fucking rocket ship... Shouldnt be hard to make 400+ at the crank so like 340-350 at the wheels... Probably doing either a 3.31 or 3.55 rear...
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Shit dude, a little cam in a junkyard 5.3 should make almost that much. If you've got decent heads and a big enough cam to move peak power north of 7k, I'd think that you'll be well north of 400 even with a few suboptimal parts.

If you can still find a set, the Camaro LSA manifolds are a bit nicer than the LS3 by virtue of their material. Lingenfelter ZL1s make 600ish at the wheels with those manifolds, so they're certainly capable of moving some spent gases.
 
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rjacobs said:
Will do.

The issue I am finding is nobody that I found, so far, makes a shelf "road course" cam... and 99% of the cams they spec/build are fairly wild NA cams, turbo cams, PD blower cams, nitrous cams, etc... They seem to spec out everything for drag racing.

The other is IF I build this de-stroked 6.0 its obviously going to require a custom cam... well if all of your "shelf" cams are for drag racing, what confidence do I have in getting a "good" custom cam grind for road course use... I ran a BTR cam in my LS7 and it made excellent power, but when you respond to an email with a "phoned in" response its hard for me to want to go back...
Click to expand...

Gotta admit, I'm skeptical of any cam that's specified with a specific purpose in mind. The head flow dictates the desired lift, the valvetrain dictates the possible lift, and the rev range is the biggest factor in selecting the timing of valve events. If you wanna make power in a particular rev range, the cam doesn't care about the road surface that the car's running on and is only minimally affected by the displacement of the engine and the type of power adder. I could see uses different lobe profiles according to the use case (street and road course applications would benefit from gentler opening and closing rates, at the expense of area under the curve), but that's generally not happening since all the "big boys" are picking from a relatively small set of lobe profiles.

A much more effective way to spec cams would be to simply state a typical rev range, with the understanding that the other parts need to be appropriate for the task. Holdener's extensive testing quite clearly demonstrates the tradeoffs - TNSTAAFL, so make these compromises intelligently.
 
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rjacobs said:
I got the most useless reply from BTR possible...

"you will need a custom cam for what you are doing"...

No suggestion, no questions on the overall setup, etc.... just a completely lazy response...

Pretty sure I know who I wont be buying a cam from.
Click to expand...
FTI (Flowtech Induction) or Jones Cam Designs. Custom cams are the only way to go, spend the extra money and get what YOU need. Not some generic off the shelf cam.
 
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E. Bryant said:
Gotta admit, I'm skeptical of any cam that's specified with a specific purpose in mind. The head flow dictates the desired lift, the valvetrain dictates the possible lift, and the rev range is the biggest factor in selecting the timing of valve events. If you wanna make power in a particular rev range, the cam doesn't care about the road surface that the car's running on and is only minimally affected by the displacement of the engine and the type of power adder. I could see uses different lobe profiles according to the use case (street and road course applications would benefit from gentler opening and closing rates, at the expense of area under the curve), but that's generally not happening since all the "big boys" are picking from a relatively small set of lobe profiles.

A much more effective way to spec cams would be to simply state a typical rev range, with the understanding that the other parts need to be appropriate for the task. Holdener's extensive testing quite clearly demonstrates the tradeoffs - TNSTAAFL, so make these compromises intelligently.
Click to expand...

And thats "generally" the way off the shelf cams are at least described... Like a BTR stage 1 favors power down lower, stage 2 moves towards the mid range and stage 3 moves towards the higher RPM... my only issue with this approach is their stage 3 cam is stupid choppy down low to move the power up higher. You also really dont know what cam lobe they are running as "most" seem to be geared towards drag racing or the like so they have fairly aggressive ramp rates. Or you have turbo/blower cams with odd LSA's as well as fast ramps to maximize the benefits of boost.

And yes, most of the "road course" cams, from what I can tell, have fairly gentle valve events as far as ramp rates and what not and they do give up peak power... but again, 300hp in this car will be a handful, 400 would be almost insanity, so i would rather have a ton of area under the curve vs. something thats really peaky and only makes power at 6500-7500RPM.
 
Komifornia looking to get the hot rods off the streets. The land of fruits and nuts. There's lots of really wealthy people with big collections that would just write the check but the average guy is screwed.
autos.yahoo.com

Report: California Looking To Restrict Travel For Classic Cars

The state is looking at instituting “zero-emission zones” soon. The state of California is looking seriously at instituting or allowing local governments to institute zero-emission zones in the near future. In preparation for such a move, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) reportedly is...
autos.yahoo.com autos.yahoo.com
 
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378394332_10224090765680503_6185265220764237701_n.jpeg
 
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Anybody here need a Holley Terminator Max ECU? Just the ECU, no harness or display. Im going Dominator but had already bought this one first. LMK
 
This past weekend, I took my youngest son to the No Prep Kings event at the local track. 45°F air made for great horsepower and no so much traction, so it was definitely a game of who had the most accurate keyboard. The cars are running faster than 4.00 in the 1/8, so there isn't much "pedalling" going on other than a quick lift to avoid the wall.

Some of the cars were too pretty to race. A lot of people are going to cry once this thing finally tags the wall (and I'll be one):
1000004425.jpg
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Some of them are a bit more rough, but I dig the cut-and-weld aesthetic:

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And some of them experienced paintless sent removal in the pits via 3lb sledgehammer after tagging the concrete at triple-digit speeds:
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Overall, we had a great time. I don't see myself dropping $400k on a steel-fender Pro Mod, but it'd be cool to find a theft-recovery roller, do some fab work, stuff an LS into it, and run in a 8.50 index or Real Street class.
 
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@E. Bryant @BLKWLFK9

Whats your all's thoughts on LS bearings?

Thinking King XP and contemplating the extra for the coated versions. I'm also reading good stuff on the Clevite/Mahle stuff, but they dont seem to make a k-series(coated) bearings for the LS that I can find.

Cam bearings looks like the Dura-Bond is the go to. Probably do the teflon coated on that also as it doesnt add much to the cost.

Getting some used rods so will have them re-bushed and thinking King on that, but the rod bushings seem to be black magic as its incredibly hard to find info on what actual brand to buy.
 
sierracharlie338 said:
I can sorta play. My uncle passed and had a 67 Buick GS (think chevelle) my dad bought it and he is not a car guy so it will be come a he and I project. Lots of potential with a 455 big block under the hood. Plus I have the “parts car” that is probably gonna get an LS roadkill style.
View attachment 8246320
And the parts car
View attachment 8246321
Click to expand...
1967 is the best looking GS IMHO.
 
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rjacobs said:
@E. Bryant @BLKWLFK9

Whats your all's thoughts on LS bearings?

Thinking King XP and contemplating the extra for the coated versions. I'm also reading good stuff on the Clevite/Mahle stuff, but they dont seem to make a k-series(coated) bearings for the LS that I can find.

Cam bearings looks like the Dura-Bond is the go to. Probably do the teflon coated on that also as it doesnt add much to the cost.

Getting some used rods so will have them re-bushed and thinking King on that, but the rod bushings seem to be black magic as its incredibly hard to find info on what actual brand to buy.
Click to expand...

Let me put this right out front - I've hurt my share of bearings. Every single time, it was the fault of something other than the bearing itself - dimensional & finish problems with the crank journal, contamination from the failure of another component, insufficient oil pressure, or beating them out of shape with detonation. The coatings are nice, but they're probably not going to help if the big end of the rod is out-of-round or if the oil pump sucks the pan dry. There may be some merit to the coatings for transient loss of oil, so for road racing I'd be willing to give them a shout.

Clevite H-series remains my go-to. The L8T crank from Mast included a set of ACL coated main bearings, so I'm going to give those a try in the new LSA build. If they work I won't have anything to report back for a while.
 
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King bearings are what i have in that 5.3 short block that was going in the car and is now for sale. Like what @E. Bryant said, most times, the bearings weren't the root cause of any of the problems. Shit machining, loss of oil pressure, etc. are usually the culprit but the bearings see a huge brunt of the aftermath destruction.
 
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@DarnYankeeUSMC

This ones for you and the thread.

My buddy Larry Booker had one. He was cool until my other buddy bought a 426 Street Hemi.
 
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E. Bryant said:
This past weekend, I took my youngest son to the No Prep Kings event at the local track. 45°F air made for great horsepower and no so much traction, so it was definitely a game of who had the most accurate keyboard. The cars are running faster than 4.00 in the 1/8, so there isn't much "pedalling" going on other than a quick lift to avoid the wall.

Some of the cars were too pretty to race. A lot of people are going to cry once this thing finally tags the wall (and I'll be one):
View attachment 8246250View attachment 8246248View attachment 8246249

Some of them are a bit more rough, but I dig the cut-and-weld aesthetic:

View attachment 8246252View attachment 8246254

And some of them experienced paintless sent removal in the pits via 3lb sledgehammer after tagging the concrete at triple-digit speeds:
View attachment 8246257View attachment 8246256View attachment 8246258View attachment 8246255

Overall, we had a great time. I don't see myself dropping $400k on a steel-fender Pro Mod, but it'd be cool to find a theft-recovery roller, do some fab work, stuff an LS into it, and run in a 8.50 index or Real Street class.
Click to expand...
Days gone by of my youth .... more like a couple decades. I can still smell the burnt rubber and crisp VP in the air.
God, sometimes I miss it. My flavor is with the muscle cars you just shared. Back then, that's all there really was.

sierracharlie338 said:
I can sorta play. My uncle passed and had a 67 Buick GS (think chevelle) my dad bought it and he is not a car guy so it will be come a he and I project. Lots of potential with a 455 big block under the hood. Plus I have the “parts car” that is probably gonna get an LS roadkill style.
View attachment 8246320
And the parts car
View attachment 8246321
Click to expand...
Uhh, that's NOT a parts car. It's another builder.
 
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E. Bryant said:
This past weekend, I took my youngest son to the No Prep Kings event at the local track. 45°F air made for great horsepower and no so much traction, so it was definitely a game of who had the most accurate keyboard. The cars are running faster than 4.00 in the 1/8, so there isn't much "pedalling" going on other than a quick lift to avoid the wall.

Some of the cars were too pretty to race. A lot of people are going to cry once this thing finally tags the wall (and I'll be one):
View attachment 8246250View attachment 8246248
Click to expand...
Based on these pictures, Mini Coopers make up approximately 1/3rd of the cars at a drag strip. Very unexpected.
 
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96coal449 said:
Days gone by of my youth .... more like a couple decades. I can still smell the burnt rubber and crisp VP in the air.
God, sometimes I miss it. My flavor is with the muscle cars you just shared. Back then, that's all there really was.


Uhh, that's NOT a parts car. It's another builder.
Click to expand...
Yeah man that’s what I’m thinking!
 
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sierracharlie338 said:
Yeah man that’s what I’m thinking!
Click to expand...

my brother and I was into older Buick gs's and stages's for long time . You need parts cars as there not much to nothing for aftermarket clone parts support. Not enough public popularity like a GM Chevy SS camero or chevellle, or even Ford mustang. You got parts sold everywhere for them. (example) Even though a Buick 68 thru 72 skylark GS 350 or GS 455 might be a GM fisher A body style. There ZERO Nothing available for clone/aftermarket body and trim .
There were some nice factory, and rare Buick GS and Stage1 Buicks built with lower #'s produced by Buick factory. but reality biggest public popularity was the GM Chevy's and Camero's. also Buick motors design are it's own animals. Even the simplest motor parts are not there for support.
.
 
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softcock said:
my brother and I was into older Buick gs's and stages's for long time . You need parts cars as there not much to nothing for aftermarket clone parts support. Not enough public popularity like a GM Chevy SS camero or chevellle, or even Ford mustang. You got parts sold everywhere for them. (example) Even though a Buick 68 thru 72 skylark GS 350 or GS 455 might be a GM fisher A body style. There ZERO Nothing available for clone/aftermarket body and trim .
There were some nice factory, and rare Buick GS and Stage1 Buicks built with lower #'s produced by Buick factory. but reality biggest public popularity was the GM Chevy's and Camero's. also Buick motors design are it's own animals. Even the simplest motor parts are not there for support.
.
Click to expand...
Found that out the hard way when looking for parts for the blue one. If I decide to build on the parts car it will be just a shell with easier stuff to source parts for like an LS motor and such. Hell that may even be the case with the blue one which is a complete car
 
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Just got caught up again with this guy’s restoration/resto-mod of a 55 Chevy wagon…I’ve been following it off and on for about 7 or 8 of the 10 years he’s into it. Unbelievable craftsmanship; and I really enjoy how he makes many of the tools and fittings to recreate or repair the bodywork, etc.

55 Wagon Progress - The BangShift.com Forums

Project Cars Update
bangshift.com

Looks like they’re getting close…finally!

IMG_7758(1).JPG
 
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91Eunozs said:
Just got caught up again with this guy’s restoration/resto-mod of a 55 Chevy wagon…I’ve been following it off and on for about 7 or 8 of the 10 years he’s into it. Unbelievable craftsmanship; and I really enjoy how he makes many of the tools and fittings to recreate or repair the bodywork, etc.

55 Wagon Progress - The BangShift.com Forums

Project Cars Update
bangshift.com

Looks like they’re getting close…finally!

IMG_7758(1).JPG
Click to expand...
I LOVE that color, that thing looks like it's going 120 mph and it doesn't have wheels on it
 
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sierracharlie338 said:
Found that out the hard way when looking for parts for the blue one. If I decide to build on the parts car it will be just a shell with easier stuff to source parts for like an LS motor and such. Hell that may even be the case with the blue one which is a complete car
Click to expand...
I have a 66 Oldsmobile Jetstar. Talk about a unicorn to find parts for.
Dessert Valley Auto still has some really old stuff for the non aftermarket supported stuff.
PXL_20230615_205732959.jpg
 
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sierracharlie338 said:
That thing looks sweet man! Thanks for the tip I will definitely check it out.
Click to expand...
It's my wife's car. It's got a 455 Olds in it and a 400 turbo with 3:55 gears. Around 500 ft lbs and 430 hp. It's going to get A/C this winter and probably a bigger cam. But I gotta get some time to finish the paint and body work on my 77 Monte Carlo to free up garage space.
PXL_20230630_135731888.jpg

I'm slowly building a 502 for it. The 350 that's in the Monte will be put in our 85 Pontiac Parisienne wagon.
PXL_20230618_151420025.jpg

The woman has it decorated for Halloween
PXL_20230920_174541132.jpg
 
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E. Bryant said:
I'm digging the Poncho B-body wagon (y)
Click to expand...
We wanted a wagon for a while but they are tough to find one for sale. I bought it near Auburn Alabama and drove it back to TN. A week later we drove it to Columbus Ohio for the Good Guys show. I had ten offers on it the first day. It gets 20 mpg with a 305 in it. We've taken it to a few cruise ins and shows. Kids want to get their pictures taken in the back seat and adults talk about riding back there when they we young.
I've had to fix a bunch of the electrical stuff but now everything is working. Other than an engine swap it's going to stay as is. I'm not going to do anything with the 350 either. Just going to run it stock.
PXL_20230708_154258550~2.jpg

I put one of these tags on the front.
 
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DarnYankeeUSMC said:
We wanted a wagon for a while but they are tough to find one for sale. I bought it near Auburn Alabama and drove it back to TN. A week later we drove it to Columbus Ohio for the Good Guys show. I had ten offers on it the first day. It gets 20 mpg with a 305 in it. We've taken it to a few cruise ins and shows. Kids want to get their pictures taken in the back seat and adults talk about riding back there when they we young.
I've had to fix a bunch of the electrical stuff but now everything is working. Other than an engine swap it's going to stay as is. I'm not going to do anything with the 350 either. Just going to run it stock.
View attachment 8249135
I put one of these tags on the front.
Click to expand...

I've owned a few of the "whale"/"bubble" B-body wagons, but never a boxy. My wife loved those cars, so I could see picking up one and doing a simple motor swap to gain some power, reliability, and fuel economy (sorry traditionalists, but a TBI 305 and 700R4 sucked back in the day and haven't gotten any better with age).

The fact that your is a Pontiac is so cool - I don't think I've seen one of those in person since the neighbors used a Safari as a daily driver in the late 80s.
 
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E. Bryant said:
I've owned a few of the "whale"/"bubble" B-body wagons, but never a boxy. My wife loved those cars, so I could see picking up one and doing a simple motor swap to gain some power, reliability, and fuel economy (sorry traditionalists, but a TBI 305 and 700R4 sucked back in the day and haven't gotten any better with age).

The fact that your is a Pontiac is so cool - I don't think I've seen one of those in person since the neighbors used a Safari as a daily driver in the late 80s.
Click to expand...
It rides great too. That 80's luxury thing. Soft cushy seats with leg room and the suspension to match. That 80's cruise control. You know the one that you set and the car slows down about 7mph before engagement. Then does the same slow down when you go uphill. It took me a bit to figure out why that was not working. It was a bad photo cell module on the back of the speedometer. The speedometer has a bow tie shaped piece of metal on the back that spins with the cable. The photo cell reads it.
This one has the Rochester Q jet.

Old cars have an abundance of ashtrays and no cup holders. Funny how things have changed
 
E. Bryant said:
Gotta admit, I'm skeptical of any cam that's specified with a specific purpose in mind. The head flow dictates the desired lift, the valvetrain dictates the possible lift, and the rev range is the biggest factor in selecting the timing of valve events. If you wanna make power in a particular rev range, the cam doesn't care about the road surface that the car's running on and is only minimally affected by the displacement of the engine and the type of power adder. I could see uses different lobe profiles according to the use case (street and road course applications would benefit from gentler opening and closing rates, at the expense of area under the curve), but that's generally not happening since all the "big boys" are picking from a relatively small set of lobe profiles.

A much more effective way to spec cams would be to simply state a typical rev range, with the understanding that the other parts need to be appropriate for the task. Holdener's extensive testing quite clearly demonstrates the tradeoffs - TNSTAAFL, so make these compromises intelligently.
Click to expand...
Love Richard's video. So much helpful info on the ls, the 4.6 and the coyote. I haven't run with any of it for a project of my own yet, but I'm loading up for boosting a gen 1 coyote in an f150 for fun.
 
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Well, it does have a vac booster. LOL
And the induction is unmatched in economy of it's day.
Mopar 318?
 
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