House Budget Proposal to remove Tax on Suppressors but not remove it from the NFA

[Longshot231]

Our senators and Thune really need pressure put on them to fire the anti-gun Parliamentarian (NOW) and put everything back in the HPA and the SHORT Act.

There are some people that will say, "ASGH." That's true IF we don't get enough people calling their congress critters.

It is said that politicians estimate that for every one constituent they hear from there are at least 1,000 others they don't hear from but feel the same way.

So if you live in a state that has 10 million voters and 1,000 call in that would be representative of one million voters in that state. Sure that's only 10% of registered voters.

However, that 10% could make a difference if the Senator won the last election by 51% of the vote. If he pisses off the 10% that feel strongly about a certain issue, they might not feel like voting for him during the next reelection.

Politicians only understand two things; getting elected and getting reelected.

Maybe I'm too optimistic but imagine 2,000 gunowners calling in with threats of not voting for them, that will place estimates of 20% of very pissed of voters he will not want to disappoint.

Let me just say two words to bolster my argument: John Cornyn.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

I would like to see the Trump Administration at the very least roll back ATF Rule 41P which was created during the Obama administration. Also remove the fingerprint and mugshot requirements. Making criminal records for everyone who wants to own an NFA item just makes this shit worse. They could do this without Congressional action.

 

[Longshot231]

2) The HPA and SHORT amendments to the bill which dropped suppressors, SB-things, etc. from NFA. Arguably a better deal than a $0 tax but it was MORE than JUST a tax change. It was a regulation change.

The reason that registration existed in the first place was because it assured that the tax had been paid. If there is no tax there is no need for registration.

Also think about this: If they can get the registration language to stick, what prevents them from adding other firearms to the list of weapons that must be registered? The precedent is set.

No taxation but you have registration. They will argue, "You won't have to pay a tax on the guns you already own and we're not banning them. All we want you to do is register them." BOHICA!

Go back and read post #289 if you haven't already.

 

[Darayavaus]

how soon before all the manufacturers raise prices by $200

 

[lash]

There was with the HPA and SHORT as "amendments" to the bill. Those are what got struck by the parliamentarian. (I think)

There has always been two moving pieces to the NFA stuff.

1) The original verbiage in the actual bill which only dropped the tax down to $0 and only on suppressor "transfers" but didn't change registration. The original words only specified "transfers".

2) The HPA and SHORT amendments to the bill which dropped suppressors, SB-things, etc. from NFA. Arguably a better deal than a $0 tax with no registration but it was MORE than JUST a tax change. It was a regulation change and probably why it was struck unchallenged.

This new bill verbiage, assuming all the links I followed are true, accurate and up to date goes back to the original IN THE BILL text that dropped suppressor taxes down to $0 but kept registration and now includes SB-things, etc. in the $0 tax change which is just a tax change and not a regulation change. And it includes "making" not just "transfers".

Ah, that does track now that I think about it it.

 

[doubloon]

If there is no tax there is no need for registration.

You keep saying this but a lot of things get registered without paying a tax.

In order for registration to be off the table suppressors, SB-thing, etc. would have to be removed from the NFA and that's what HPA/SHORT did, made them regular firearms so a 4473 would still be required for all of them.

Leaving them in the NFA but reducing the tax to $0 leaves registration in tact.

Go back and read post #289 if you haven't already.

I saw the post.

Opinions are not laws.

Testimony is not law.

The NFA is law.

I'd like to be wrong, I hope I'm wrong, I hope all works out the way you want to describe it but nothing I read backs up what you're claiming.

We and A.G. Cummings can be butt hurt all we want about getting screwed over by a bad law but it doesn't change the fact that it's a law. Unless suppressors and other toys are removed from the NFA registration is still a requirement tax or no tax. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Longshot231]

You keep saying this but a lot of things get registered without paying a tax.

In order for registration to be off the table suppressors, SB-thing, etc. would have to be removed from the NFA and that's what HPA/SHORT did, made them regular firearms so a 4473 would still be required for all of them.

Leaving them in the NFA but reducing the tax to $0 leaves registration in tact.



I saw the post.

Opinions are not laws.

Testimony is not law.

The NFA is law.

I'd like to be wrong, I hope I'm wrong, I hope all works out the way you want to describe it but nothing I read backs up what you're claiming.

We and A.G. Cummings can be butt hurt all we want about getting screwed over by a bad law but it doesn't change the fact that it's a law. Unless suppressors and other toys are removed from the NFA registration is still a requirement tax or no tax. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

A lot of things do get registered without paying a tax. However, we're not talking about those things.

FDR & co. got around banning by charging a HUGE tax on those devices. That's how they got away with it for so long. IMHO, that's still a flimsy excuse because no other rights recognized in the BOR are taxed.

 

[lash]

A lot of things do get registered without paying a tax. However, we're not talking about those things.

FDR & co. got around banning by charging a HUGE tax on those devices. That's how they got away with it for so long. IMHO, that's still a flimsy excuse because no other rights recognized in the BOR are taxed.

You’re not wrong and we should always have that as a goal, but politics is politics and it takes time for the winds of change to move the needle.

 

[Longshot231]

You’re not wrong and we should always have that as a goal, but politics is politics and it takes time for the winds of change to move the needle.

Correct. I'm not ready to give up without a fight.

 

[doubloon]

still a flimsy excuse because no other rights recognized in the BOR are taxed.

Maybe there's a disconnect here.

The "they/them" being suppressors, SB-things or whatever.

I'm not saying they should be taxed, because I don't think they should.

I'm not saying they should be registered, because I don't think they should.

But I am saying they're currently taxed and registered because that's the current law.

And I am saying short of removing them from the NFA it will always be the law to register them.

It's a budget bill so that's all they're allowed to change, unless they can sneak or negotiate it in, is budget and tax stuph.

 

[Longshot231]

Maybe there's a disconnect here.

The "they/them" being suppressors, SB-things or whatever.

I'm not saying they should be taxed, because I don't think they should.

I'm not saying they should be registered, because I don't think they should.

But I am saying they're currently taxed and registered because that's the current law.

And I am saying short of removing them from the NFA it will always be the law to register them.

It's a budget bill so that's all they're allowed to change, unless they can sneak or negotiate it in, is budget and tax stuph.

We could be talking past each other.

1) I don't like the fact that they've left the registration part in the BBB.
2) The Parliamentarian can be ignored or fired.
3) The registration part can be taken out because the Parliamentarian is in an advisory capacity and serves at the pleasure of the Leader of the Senate.
4) JD Vance, as President of the Senate can override the Parliamentarian and put the HPA and the SHORT act as well as other amendments back in the BBB.
5) All of the above can be accomplished if people take a few minutes to call or email their congress critters. I have low patience for people that bitch but don't bother to make the calls or vote. They do nothing but drag the rest of us down.

 

[doubloon]

All of the above can be accomplished if people take a few minutes to call or email their congress critters

This is the only part I don't buy into. It's like all those requests for comments by ATF. I tend to think the only thing congress critters respect or listen to is cash or lobbyists.

 

[Longshot231]

This is the only part I don't buy into. It's like all those requests for comments by ATF. I tend to think the only thing congress critters respect or listen to is cash or lobbyists.

Cash doesn't vote. Make more noise than the cash and lobbyists.

 

[doubloon]

Cash doesn't vote. Make more noise than the cash and lobbyists.

I cast my vote at the polls.

Cash absolutely moves the needle regardless of how anybody votes otherwise lobbyists wouldn't have a job.

Nobody makes more noise than liberals but they're not getting everything they want.

The phones and polls are just to give the illusion of control/importance

 

[Longshot231]

 

[Longshot231]

They put Crenshaw's amendment stopping Medicare funds from being spent on transgender surgeries back in the bill but did nothing on the HPA and SHORT act.

Here's what I wrote my two senators and Thune:

You can override the Parliamentarian and put Senator Crenshaw’s amendment banning Medicare funds from paying for transgender surgeries back in the Reconciliation bill but ignore gunowners.

If you can put Senator Crenshaw’s amendment back in the Reconciliation Bill, you can also override the Parliamentarian and place the ENTIRE HPA and the ENTIRE SHORT act back in the Reconciliation Bill.

Stop the unconstitutional tax AND the unconstitutional registration. The only reason that registration existed in the first place was to ensure that the tax had been collected. So, there is no need for registration if the tax disappears.

Fire the anti-gun Parliamentarian!
If you ignore gunowners again we will ignore you the next time you are up for reelection.

Here's the link to contact your senators and Thune.

U.S. Senate: Contacting U.S. Senators

www.senate.gov

 

[Longshot231]

 

[SilentStalkr]

All they care about is money. If someone spent enough to buy enough off, it would happen. Or gov is so jacked up. There is no representation, just who can spend the most money.

 

[lroseen]

Something no one is talking about, taking the tax to 0 without removing from the NFA is a big problem for thereafter being able to remove them from the NFA. If there is no tax, we can not use a budget bill in the future to remove it from the NFA. The benefit of using a budget bill is a filibuster does not apply. So if there is no longer a tax and we want to try remove them from the NFA in the future it will just get filibustered. They should drop the tax to $1 if we’re not getting it removed in order to keep this option open in the future.

 

[doubloon]

They put Crenshaw's amendment stopping Medicare funds from being spent on transgender surgeries back in the bill

Who overruled her?

 

[Longshot231]

Who overruled her?

I guess the republicans or someone on some committee put Crenshaw’s amendment back in the BBB. I only found out from Langley’s video.

 

[Doc68]

Is anybody getting tired of the blame game, "Oh, the Democrats blocked it. We tried." ????

So the only question from here is whether the Republicans meant it, in which case they will fix this, or they knew from the beginning that they could pretend but would not have to follow through, so 2A folks would keep voting for them while they point and said that bad old MacDonough, she did this. She's a Dem, you know. We're Republicans. We support your Second Amendment rights.

There is a really good argument that this is a tax issue directly affecting the budget.



OR, it is just the Republicans doing this:


View attachment 8716377

Stop following illegal laws......like seriously, jury stop.

Doc

 

[Doc68]

Y'all are funny thinking a phone call is going to change anything. We have seen this in the past when we have held the majority in congress, senate and the presidency and still got nothing passed or any of our rights back.

This is only gonna get worse folks. Just come to the realization that I have and realize that all politicians are bought and paid for by the higher powers that operate behind the scenes. We will never get our full rights back with whoever is in office until we force them all out and start over.....I mean we seriously let less than 500 people decide our lives and we talk of making a phone call......talk about battered women syndrome.


Doc

 

[NoDopes]

So, ObamaCare was a tax but NFA isn’t? Bullshit

 

[ToddM]

If I'm reading right (and who knows with all the misinformation and slanted information out there), they have not ignored or overruled any parliamentarian rulings.

They have re-wrote lots of things into new versions that were rejected by the parliamentarian in hopes of them being approved. Just like they did to the $200 tax and all removal from NFA status for SBR/Suppressors etc. Once it was rejected, they re-wrote a new version that they hope complies.

I don't think the drop to 0$ matters for NFA stuff (outside the tax bill) for a budget based repeal of NFA, because as we just saw, the only thing a simple majority budget vote is going to deal with is pure budget issues. Leave the tax at $1, try the same thing they just did and the NFA registration stuff will just get shut down again. They wouldn't even buck the parliamentarian on medicaid stuff and there's a couple dozen Senators threatening publicly not vote for it on that issue alone. You know how many senators I've heard say they won't vote for the bill if the NFA registration removal is not put back in...... exactly 0, number of articles I've seen senators talking about how important the NFA registration removal is......exactly 0. So if they won't buck the parliamentarian on medicaid by far the biggest issue threatening the bill from passing, they are never going to do it on something like NFA. NFA is just a small token issue that they can use for appeasing voters without actually putting any effort into making sure it happens. They know when it doesn't happen, they can just say he same thing they do every time something doesn't happen to voters. "We tried it wasn't our fault"

At this point it doesn't even sound like anyone is confident they can even pass it with a simple majority as it is. I spent decades calling and writing letters to politicians, they don't care. The only thing they care about is being voted out, that's the only message voters can send to them that they will listen to, period. For decades once politicians get to this level, it's a massive cash cow with almost no consequences for what they do and not nearly enough overturn from voters removing them.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

I object to the registration of people more so than NFA items themselves. Like it's bad enough we you have to pay a tax on right.

But after ATF 41F/41P was adopted in 2016 you couldn't use the trust route to have your NFA applications approved without submitting fingerprints and mugshot photos. These get added to the FBI Next Generation Identification database permanently and there is no way to remove them without a court order. That information is shared with the States databases and if you live in a blue state that information is going to be used against you in things like a red flag ex parte hearing.

You shouldn't be treated like a criminal and registered like a sex offender for wanting to own a safety device like a supressor. The whole system is fuckery.