I am looking to get either a LED or Xenon flashlight. My question is how bright is bright enough? I will use it like a normal flashlight but it would be nice to have it as a defense tool too. Obviously the more Lumens the more dollars. Do I really need 200+ lumens or is 100Lumens+/- good enough for a good bright walking/utility light and bright enough specially in strobe to use in defense? I realize that there is never too much, but I have to keep cost in mind and battery life too.
- Thread starter jericho
- Start date
Re: How bright a light?
It all depends on what you use it for.
My SF Lumamax L2 (15/100 Lumens) is perfectly sufficient for double duty as utility and defense.
The weaponlight on my G21 is a 60 lumen light
My the weaponlight on my M4 is 200 lumens.
There is such a thing as too much. When you fire it up in a room and blind yourself that's too much. White walls are nasty like that.
It all depends on what you use it for.
My SF Lumamax L2 (15/100 Lumens) is perfectly sufficient for double duty as utility and defense.
The weaponlight on my G21 is a 60 lumen light
My the weaponlight on my M4 is 200 lumens.
There is such a thing as too much. When you fire it up in a room and blind yourself that's too much. White walls are nasty like that.
Re: How bright a light?
I think intended use decides that. At times my 200 is a lot inside but has not caused issues outside.
I think intended use decides that. At times my 200 is a lot inside but has not caused issues outside.
Re: How bright a light?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
There is such a thing as too much. When you fire it up in a room and blind yourself that's too much. White walls are nasty like that. </div></div>
AMEN.
The light needs to match its application.
Indoors 60 Lumens is fine.
BMT
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
There is such a thing as too much. When you fire it up in a room and blind yourself that's too much. White walls are nasty like that. </div></div>
AMEN.
The light needs to match its application.
Indoors 60 Lumens is fine.
BMT
Re: How bright a light?
I would definitely recommend led. If you want battery life that is the way to go. Also I would look at something with 2 settings. We just came out with the G2X lights which is pretty much a g2 led but it has a clickie tailcap and is 15 lumens on low 200 on high and is only $65.
50 lumens is enough light to blind someone.
I would definitely recommend led. If you want battery life that is the way to go. Also I would look at something with 2 settings. We just came out with the G2X lights which is pretty much a g2 led but it has a clickie tailcap and is 15 lumens on low 200 on high and is only $65.
50 lumens is enough light to blind someone.
Re: How bright a light?
I might have to look into one of those G2Xs...only complaint I can spot right off the bat though is the lack of a pocket clip, or any visible means of attaching one that I can spot.
I might have to look into one of those G2Xs...only complaint I can spot right off the bat though is the lack of a pocket clip, or any visible means of attaching one that I can spot.
Re: How bright a light?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I might have to look into one of those G2Xs...only complaint I can spot right off the bat though is the lack of a pocket clip, or any visible means of attaching one that I can spot. </div></div>
I would check out candle power forums. I am pretty sure there are guys making pocket clips for the 6p/G2 that mounts in between the body and the tailcap. For $10 less there is also the tactical version that is just straight 200lumens.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I might have to look into one of those G2Xs...only complaint I can spot right off the bat though is the lack of a pocket clip, or any visible means of attaching one that I can spot. </div></div>
I would check out candle power forums. I am pretty sure there are guys making pocket clips for the 6p/G2 that mounts in between the body and the tailcap. For $10 less there is also the tactical version that is just straight 200lumens.
Re: How bright a light?
I would go with the SF E2D... It is either 15/200 or 5/200 lumens. Either way, I have two of them and they are awesome. I don't see myself ever having a use for the striking bezel, but it is a nice feature to have.
Also, take a look at getting a diffuser. If your going to be using it indoors, the diffuser will help scatter the light. While it is still blinding to whomever you shine it at, you won't have as much 'pop' off the wall coming back at you that a tight beam would have. Some flashlights come with them, like the Olight M30.
I would go with the SF E2D... It is either 15/200 or 5/200 lumens. Either way, I have two of them and they are awesome. I don't see myself ever having a use for the striking bezel, but it is a nice feature to have.
Also, take a look at getting a diffuser. If your going to be using it indoors, the diffuser will help scatter the light. While it is still blinding to whomever you shine it at, you won't have as much 'pop' off the wall coming back at you that a tight beam would have. Some flashlights come with them, like the Olight M30.
Re: How bright a light?
Would the striking bezel be good for a flashlight in the car, in case you have to break a window to get out due to some sort of accident? Is that even possible with a flashlight bezel?
@Chucky: I will check the G2X out.Thanks.
Would the striking bezel be good for a flashlight in the car, in case you have to break a window to get out due to some sort of accident? Is that even possible with a flashlight bezel?
@Chucky: I will check the G2X out.Thanks.
Re: How bright a light?
I don't think a strike bezel would break the window without you beating the crap out of it. I know a guy that was on the scene of a horrific car crash. He had a light with a strike bezel and couldn't break the window to get the person out. He ended up grabbing a rock and smashing it. He now carries a knife with a built in window breaker everywhere because of that incident.
I don't think a strike bezel would break the window without you beating the crap out of it. I know a guy that was on the scene of a horrific car crash. He had a light with a strike bezel and couldn't break the window to get the person out. He ended up grabbing a rock and smashing it. He now carries a knife with a built in window breaker everywhere because of that incident.
Re: How bright a light?
Fenix, same specs as surefire but half the price.
http://www.fenixlight.com/viewproduct.asp?id=98
Fenix, same specs as surefire but half the price.
http://www.fenixlight.com/viewproduct.asp?id=98
Re: How bright a light?
I've got anEagletac t100 c2. Low setting around 50 high setting at 185 or close. The flexibility of 2 CR 123's or (1) 18650 rechargeable is really nice. Super tough light severely abused and still going strong. Great support from the company. I'm very pleased. The best flashlight dollar I've spent.
I almost never use the high setting. Never inside and only outside in open country looking for eyeballs.
I've got anEagletac t100 c2. Low setting around 50 high setting at 185 or close. The flexibility of 2 CR 123's or (1) 18650 rechargeable is really nice. Super tough light severely abused and still going strong. Great support from the company. I'm very pleased. The best flashlight dollar I've spent.
I almost never use the high setting. Never inside and only outside in open country looking for eyeballs.
Re: How bright a light?
The classic tactical flashlight was the Surefire 6P (pre-LED), and it had 60 or 65 lumens. I think that could be considered the minimum for "bright enough". Most modern LED flashlights put out at least that much.
200 lumens is way too bright for many non-tactical situations (like trying to read a map at night), but it is sure nice to have if you are trying to momentarily blind someone.
In my opinion, a great value for the money in the 100 lumen range is the Fenix PD20 and Streamlight PT1L-1.
http://thetacticalgearstore.com/m-fx-pd20b.html
http://thetacticalgearstore.com/g-57963.html
The classic tactical flashlight was the Surefire 6P (pre-LED), and it had 60 or 65 lumens. I think that could be considered the minimum for "bright enough". Most modern LED flashlights put out at least that much.
200 lumens is way too bright for many non-tactical situations (like trying to read a map at night), but it is sure nice to have if you are trying to momentarily blind someone.
In my opinion, a great value for the money in the 100 lumen range is the Fenix PD20 and Streamlight PT1L-1.
http://thetacticalgearstore.com/m-fx-pd20b.html
http://thetacticalgearstore.com/g-57963.html
Re: How bright a light?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chucky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would definitely recommend led. If you want battery life that is the way to go. Also I would look at something with 2 settings. We just came out with the G2X lights which is pretty much a g2 led but it has a clickie tailcap and is 15 lumens on low 200 on high and is only $65. </div></div>
The G2X rocks! Its way bright, and for my use for it that is what I really needed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chucky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would definitely recommend led. If you want battery life that is the way to go. Also I would look at something with 2 settings. We just came out with the G2X lights which is pretty much a g2 led but it has a clickie tailcap and is 15 lumens on low 200 on high and is only $65. </div></div>
The G2X rocks! Its way bright, and for my use for it that is what I really needed.
Re: How bright a light?
i have a jetbeam rrt2 and it is awesome four different setting and it is led it is not a weapon light, the flash setting is the weapon very disorienting
i have a jetbeam rrt2 and it is awesome four different setting and it is led it is not a weapon light, the flash setting is the weapon very disorienting
Re: How bright a light?
Keep in mind that not all lumens are created equal. Most of your chinese imports are rating their lights in emitter lumens, or total theoretical output at the LED or bulb at a theoretical drive current. Surefire has historically, and continues to, measure their output as an out-the-front rating at some point during the runtime, and it's measured in an integrating sphere. Therefore, their ratings take into account the losses due to the reflector and lens, as well as some battery droop. A Surefire rating is much more 'honest' even if it doesn't look great on paper.
There's also the warranty to consider, as you'll never have to buy another Surefire in your life unless you lose it. If absolutely anything goes wrong, they will send you parts, fix your light, or replace it all together. Even the 'premium' chinese brands can't compare in this regard.
Also, buy American.
Keep in mind that not all lumens are created equal. Most of your chinese imports are rating their lights in emitter lumens, or total theoretical output at the LED or bulb at a theoretical drive current. Surefire has historically, and continues to, measure their output as an out-the-front rating at some point during the runtime, and it's measured in an integrating sphere. Therefore, their ratings take into account the losses due to the reflector and lens, as well as some battery droop. A Surefire rating is much more 'honest' even if it doesn't look great on paper.
There's also the warranty to consider, as you'll never have to buy another Surefire in your life unless you lose it. If absolutely anything goes wrong, they will send you parts, fix your light, or replace it all together. Even the 'premium' chinese brands can't compare in this regard.
Also, buy American.
Re: How bright a light?
Recently converted one of my Surefire E2's to a E2L. E2L has more light than the E2, way more battery life, low power setting that works great and gets way long life. I am finally impressed with an LED light! Thought about a higher powered one but for an all around light, I am very happy. Now I just need to unlearn rotating the tailcap for On/Off and do the click!
Recently converted one of my Surefire E2's to a E2L. E2L has more light than the E2, way more battery life, low power setting that works great and gets way long life. I am finally impressed with an LED light! Thought about a higher powered one but for an all around light, I am very happy. Now I just need to unlearn rotating the tailcap for On/Off and do the click!
Re: How bright a light?
Look at the Olight M30 on batteryjunction.com I bought it for hunting and like it a lot. 4 settings, High (700 lumens) Med (120 lumens) Low (8 lumens) and a strobe function. Right now it is on sale for $139. Be careful of manufacturers lumen claims. They are much like commercial ammo claims of fps. Get the 18650 Protected li-on batteries. I have found the run time is as advertised.
Look at the Olight M30 on batteryjunction.com I bought it for hunting and like it a lot. 4 settings, High (700 lumens) Med (120 lumens) Low (8 lumens) and a strobe function. Right now it is on sale for $139. Be careful of manufacturers lumen claims. They are much like commercial ammo claims of fps. Get the 18650 Protected li-on batteries. I have found the run time is as advertised.
Re: How bright a light?
I am lucky enough to have my daughters boyfriend who works for Surefire. He's always bringing different flashlights on our camping trips for tests and photo ops. I've gotten a few from him like the M952V which is pretty cool as it is both white and IR with the turn of the head.Also got the E2D Defender. very bright. Last month I helped out on their photo shoot for the new catalog. Got to play around with their Hellfighter and some other toys. Had a great time.
I am lucky enough to have my daughters boyfriend who works for Surefire. He's always bringing different flashlights on our camping trips for tests and photo ops. I've gotten a few from him like the M952V which is pretty cool as it is both white and IR with the turn of the head.Also got the E2D Defender. very bright. Last month I helped out on their photo shoot for the new catalog. Got to play around with their Hellfighter and some other toys. Had a great time.
H
harleymann02
Guest
Re: How bright a light?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jericho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking to get either a LED or Xenon flashlight. My question is how bright is bright enough? I will use it like a normal flashlight but it would be nice to have it as a defense tool too. Obviously the more Lumens the more dollars. Do I really need 200+ lumens or is 100Lumens+/- good enough for a good bright walking/utility light and bright enough specially in strobe to use in defense? I realize that there is never too much, but I have to keep cost in mind and battery life too. </div></div>
By far the "Best" light I have used for the money is a lesser known name Coast LED Lenser P-7, I've had mine for almost 2 years use it every single day and works flawlessly and the best part is it kicks out 200 lumens on only 4 "AAA" batteries and it has a focusing head that goes from wide to narrow by pushing the head in and out. Battery life is very good too for how much light it puts out. Here's a link if your interested LED Lenser USA
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jericho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking to get either a LED or Xenon flashlight. My question is how bright is bright enough? I will use it like a normal flashlight but it would be nice to have it as a defense tool too. Obviously the more Lumens the more dollars. Do I really need 200+ lumens or is 100Lumens+/- good enough for a good bright walking/utility light and bright enough specially in strobe to use in defense? I realize that there is never too much, but I have to keep cost in mind and battery life too. </div></div>
By far the "Best" light I have used for the money is a lesser known name Coast LED Lenser P-7, I've had mine for almost 2 years use it every single day and works flawlessly and the best part is it kicks out 200 lumens on only 4 "AAA" batteries and it has a focusing head that goes from wide to narrow by pushing the head in and out. Battery life is very good too for how much light it puts out. Here's a link if your interested LED Lenser USA
Re: How bright a light?
harleymann02,
On this Lenser is there a low setting? I checked out the website and didn't notice a setting other than 200L.
harleymann02,
On this Lenser is there a low setting? I checked out the website and didn't notice a setting other than 200L.
H
harleymann02
Guest
Re: How bright a light?
Yes a Low, Normal and if you hold the button down its max output. The low is really nice if your reading a map or something like that low is maybe 20-30 lumens just enough to see clearly but not enough to lose your night vision. Normal is probably around 180 lumens and Max is 200 but you have to hold down the switch it won't stay at max when you depress the button. I rarely use the max because there isn't too much difference between 180 lumens to 200. For the price you'll be impressed with the quality.
Yes a Low, Normal and if you hold the button down its max output. The low is really nice if your reading a map or something like that low is maybe 20-30 lumens just enough to see clearly but not enough to lose your night vision. Normal is probably around 180 lumens and Max is 200 but you have to hold down the switch it won't stay at max when you depress the button. I rarely use the max because there isn't too much difference between 180 lumens to 200. For the price you'll be impressed with the quality.
Re: How bright a light?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Uhlan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to hijack the thread but Chucky, the G2X tailcap switch, does the 1st depression of the sw actuate the 15 or 200 lumen light level? The price is awesome for the features.
</div></div>
The first click is the low the second it the high. Or for $10 less you can get the one with just the high setting and the lockout tailcap.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Uhlan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to hijack the thread but Chucky, the G2X tailcap switch, does the 1st depression of the sw actuate the 15 or 200 lumen light level? The price is awesome for the features.
</div></div>
The first click is the low the second it the high. Or for $10 less you can get the one with just the high setting and the lockout tailcap.
Re: How bright a light?
What does "as a defense tool" mean?
Do you mean gun mounted or for use with a firearm?
or something else?
Some people think light is a weapon as can be used for defense.
That's not the case at all.
Matter of fact, if you go up against someone with a gun the light is likely to be his aiming point.
What does "as a defense tool" mean?
Do you mean gun mounted or for use with a firearm?
or something else?
Some people think light is a weapon as can be used for defense.
That's not the case at all.
Matter of fact, if you go up against someone with a gun the light is likely to be his aiming point.
Re: How bright a light?
check out olights
got one about 6 months ago havent carried my e2d led since
alot of light for $100
check out olights
got one about 6 months ago havent carried my e2d led since
alot of light for $100
Re: How bright a light?
I carry a SureFire backup it my front pocket everywhere I go. It takes one One 123 battery and fits perfectly in the palm of your hand when walking in the street or up to the bar. I never leave home without it. If I'm carrying my Glock 17 concealed I put my SureFire X300 either in my left coat pocket or pant pocket. I've never had them fail me when needed most.
I carry a SureFire backup it my front pocket everywhere I go. It takes one One 123 battery and fits perfectly in the palm of your hand when walking in the street or up to the bar. I never leave home without it. If I'm carrying my Glock 17 concealed I put my SureFire X300 either in my left coat pocket or pant pocket. I've never had them fail me when needed most.
Re: How bright a light?
I prefer this:
http://www.insighttechgear.com/products-m3x-lg.htm
and can attest to its extreme durability and ease of use. IMHO a pressure-pad compatible light is a necessity
I prefer this:
http://www.insighttechgear.com/products-m3x-lg.htm
and can attest to its extreme durability and ease of use. IMHO a pressure-pad compatible light is a necessity
Re: How bright a light?
I found this general guideline:
1-80 Lumens - Very Small - Usually Single Battery General Use, very small area illumination, specialized lights
81-200 Lumens - Small Sized - Can be carried in a holster on a belt, usually 2 or more batteries
Subject Disorientation, Tactical Environments, Police General Use including patrol
200-500 Lumens - Medium Sized - 2 or 3 batteries, most require a holster Police Tactical Scenarios, SWAT Team Weapon Lights, Searching Buildings, Small Outside Area Searches, Home Use Search Light, Hunting and Camping
500-1000 Lumens - Large Size - 9 inches or more, Multiple LEDs, Requires a case or Large Holster for storage, multiple or specialized batteries Large Outside Area Searches, Hunting, Illuminating Game at night, SWAT Teams for Group Disorientation
1000+ Lumens - Medium to Large sized - multiple LED arrangement or large output single LED die, requires case or large holster for storage Newest Technology Replacing many lights in the 500-1000 Lumen Category.
Found here: http://www.tacticalleds.com/categories/LED-Flashlights/
I found this general guideline:
1-80 Lumens - Very Small - Usually Single Battery General Use, very small area illumination, specialized lights
81-200 Lumens - Small Sized - Can be carried in a holster on a belt, usually 2 or more batteries
Subject Disorientation, Tactical Environments, Police General Use including patrol
200-500 Lumens - Medium Sized - 2 or 3 batteries, most require a holster Police Tactical Scenarios, SWAT Team Weapon Lights, Searching Buildings, Small Outside Area Searches, Home Use Search Light, Hunting and Camping
500-1000 Lumens - Large Size - 9 inches or more, Multiple LEDs, Requires a case or Large Holster for storage, multiple or specialized batteries Large Outside Area Searches, Hunting, Illuminating Game at night, SWAT Teams for Group Disorientation
1000+ Lumens - Medium to Large sized - multiple LED arrangement or large output single LED die, requires case or large holster for storage Newest Technology Replacing many lights in the 500-1000 Lumen Category.
Found here: http://www.tacticalleds.com/categories/LED-Flashlights/
Re: How bright a light?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chucky</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I might have to look into one of those G2Xs...only complaint I can spot right off the bat though is the lack of a pocket clip, or any visible means of attaching one that I can spot. </div></div>
I would check out candle power forums. I am pretty sure there are guys making pocket clips for the 6p/G2 that mounts in between the body and the tailcap. For $10 less there is also the tactical version that is just straight 200lumens. </div></div>
well I am more than a CPF regular visitor...
Wrapping the above mentioned comment, The options are Solrafroce (easily found in ebay) and the Novatac clip (from lighthound.com)
No on my suggestion....let's say that you need 60 lumnes for indoors and 200 for outdours....well exctly what Fenix Tk11 and Olight M20 offers....With the added feature that output selection is controled with a ring near the bezel....so you can easily use the light mounted on a carbine (they both have a reliable momentary/click switch)
Now.....if we are to nitpick teh selction we shoudl firat start from BEAM Selection...but this is a big issue, which I cannot cover at the moment. Any one interested can PM me....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chucky</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I might have to look into one of those G2Xs...only complaint I can spot right off the bat though is the lack of a pocket clip, or any visible means of attaching one that I can spot. </div></div>
I would check out candle power forums. I am pretty sure there are guys making pocket clips for the 6p/G2 that mounts in between the body and the tailcap. For $10 less there is also the tactical version that is just straight 200lumens. </div></div>
well I am more than a CPF regular visitor...
Wrapping the above mentioned comment, The options are Solrafroce (easily found in ebay) and the Novatac clip (from lighthound.com)
No on my suggestion....let's say that you need 60 lumnes for indoors and 200 for outdours....well exctly what Fenix Tk11 and Olight M20 offers....With the added feature that output selection is controled with a ring near the bezel....so you can easily use the light mounted on a carbine (they both have a reliable momentary/click switch)
Now.....if we are to nitpick teh selction we shoudl firat start from BEAM Selection...but this is a big issue, which I cannot cover at the moment. Any one interested can PM me....
Re: How bright a light?
SureFire, tested like no other... Thanks Chucky for the new X series torches that fit on my 1" P60 mounts. These are the the best bang for the $$ !
CPF member since 2002 - Want more try OVEREADY.com
SureFire, tested like no other... Thanks Chucky for the new X series torches that fit on my 1" P60 mounts. These are the the best bang for the $$ !
CPF member since 2002 - Want more try OVEREADY.com
Re: How bright a light?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does "as a defense tool" mean?
Do you mean gun mounted or for use with a firearm?
or something else?
Some people think light is a weapon as can be used for defense.
That's not the case at all.
Matter of fact, if you go up against someone with a gun the light is likely to be his aiming point. </div></div>
I just meant it should have a strobe function and be bright enough to blind someone long enough to be useful. Definitely not only line of defense. I should have been more specific.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does "as a defense tool" mean?
Do you mean gun mounted or for use with a firearm?
or something else?
Some people think light is a weapon as can be used for defense.
That's not the case at all.
Matter of fact, if you go up against someone with a gun the light is likely to be his aiming point. </div></div>
I just meant it should have a strobe function and be bright enough to blind someone long enough to be useful. Definitely not only line of defense. I should have been more specific.
Re: How bright a light?
Tagola
Tagola
Re: How bright a light?
I always carry a surefire E2D EXECUTIVE DEFENDER with me in my pocket
I always carry a surefire E2D EXECUTIVE DEFENDER with me in my pocket
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