This reminds me when they started to phase out slung up stages because those weighted rifles were just too heavy… and recoil’s bad, mkay…
- Thread starter Eurodriver
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Yup. I still get flak because I insist on one unsupported positional stage per match. I’ve actually had to incorporate a transition onto a barricade of some sort into those stages as a compromise to the heavier is better crowd.
In many ways it’s sad.
However, back on topic. These guys that are confident that they could cold bore a full size torso target at unknown range past 700 yards better have super fine scopes and lots of luck if they think they can accurately reticle range to those distances. The one other option is the very rare person who regularly engages UKD targets at distance and has honed his craft.
If that is 1/10 of those that said they could, I’ll eat my hat.
Said hat to hedge my bet.
0-100 yards. with 100% confidence. I don't shoot long range enough.
i learned to use a mildot master before i had money for a lrf.
of course, having the lrf is helpful at checking your ability to use your scope to range targets.
of course, having the lrf is helpful at checking your ability to use your scope to range targets.
I can reticle range predictably out to 450yds. When I was shooting with the MSR reticle and practicing that’d go up to 550 if mirage wasn’t too bad and I was prone/supported etc.
I wasn’t ever very good at time based UKD as I didn’t practice those enough. I was still learning how to handle recoil in different positions and my Guinness addled brain isn’t so good anymore.
I wasn’t ever very good at time based UKD as I didn’t practice those enough. I was still learning how to handle recoil in different positions and my Guinness addled brain isn’t so good anymore.
Most honest answer here.^^^^
No this, no that, no dope, do I know how big the target is?
All that no shit means no ranging reticle either.
400yards.
"Oh I can hit it 100% 700, maybe 1000 yards."
Fuck me running, that is hilarious.
If I do my part…Most honest answer here.^^^^
No this, no that, no dope, do I know how big the target is?
All that no shit means no ranging reticle either.
400yards.
"Oh I can hit it 100% 700, maybe 1000 yards."
Fuck me running, that is hilarious.
That was you! I was hungry the rest of the day
Gonna get to try 100 to 800 KNOWN distance steel next Saturday.
The new range in Bogalusa is having a Steel Turkey Shoot after an F-Class match.
Loading ammo today, and tomorrow, and the next day.
The only one that will be interesting for me (and the wife) will be the 700yd 1 MOA plate.
Sizes are:
100 yds - 5" plate (5 moa, 1.5 mils)
200 yds - 8" plate (4 moa, 1.2 mils)
300 yds - 33% ipsc plate - 10" h x 6" w (3.3 x 2 moa, 1 x .6mils)
400 yds - 8" plate (2 moa, 0.6 mils)
500 yds - 10" gong (2 moa)
600 yds - 66% ipsc plate - 20"h x 12" w (3.3 x 2 moa) 2 MOA is like a nine on the F-Class target, I can do a 9
700 yds - 8" plate (slightly over 1 moa, 0.35 mils)
Maybe I'll get lucky.
800 yds - Full ipsc plate - 30"h x 18" wide (3.3 x 2 moa)
Dope verified @ 100, 200, 300 and 600.
The new range in Bogalusa is having a Steel Turkey Shoot after an F-Class match.
Loading ammo today, and tomorrow, and the next day.
The only one that will be interesting for me (and the wife) will be the 700yd 1 MOA plate.
Sizes are:
100 yds - 5" plate (5 moa, 1.5 mils)
200 yds - 8" plate (4 moa, 1.2 mils)
300 yds - 33% ipsc plate - 10" h x 6" w (3.3 x 2 moa, 1 x .6mils)
400 yds - 8" plate (2 moa, 0.6 mils)
500 yds - 10" gong (2 moa)
600 yds - 66% ipsc plate - 20"h x 12" w (3.3 x 2 moa) 2 MOA is like a nine on the F-Class target, I can do a 9
700 yds - 8" plate (slightly over 1 moa, 0.35 mils)
800 yds - Full ipsc plate - 30"h x 18" wide (3.3 x 2 moa)
Dope verified @ 100, 200, 300 and 600.
24" tall plate.
24 x 25.4 = 609.6cm, or 0.6096 meters.
Width or height of target (meters) X 1,000 divided by the mil size of the target in the reticle = range in meters.
Lets pretend i mil the target to be 1.2mil tall
0.6096 X 1000
————. = 508 meters.
1.2
What if im off by 0.1mil.
If i mil it as 1.3mil, target becomes 469 meters away. 39m difference.
My error is LESS than my actual dope, meaning, my dial from 450m to 500m is 0.3 mil different, target is over 1mil tall, i have extreme condfidence in a first round impact.
700m, give me time to cleanly measure the target, im not gonna guarantee first round impact, but id have high confidence.
I would mil the height of the target, and get a distance, then i would mil the width of the target, get a result, and hope that they were well within my error range, and make the shot.
24 x 25.4 = 609.6cm, or 0.6096 meters.
Width or height of target (meters) X 1,000 divided by the mil size of the target in the reticle = range in meters.
Lets pretend i mil the target to be 1.2mil tall
0.6096 X 1000
————. = 508 meters.
1.2
What if im off by 0.1mil.
If i mil it as 1.3mil, target becomes 469 meters away. 39m difference.
My error is LESS than my actual dope, meaning, my dial from 450m to 500m is 0.3 mil different, target is over 1mil tall, i have extreme condfidence in a first round impact.
700m, give me time to cleanly measure the target, im not gonna guarantee first round impact, but id have high confidence.
I would mil the height of the target, and get a distance, then i would mil the width of the target, get a result, and hope that they were well within my error range, and make the shot.
You’re touching on the topic of danger zone (Archer!). There was a tutorial about it in LL videos a while back. Very useful for knowing margin of error. My challenge with reticle ranging is mirage and eye condition. With astigmatism I swear sometimes I’d range the same thing three different ways…
Ay, all so logical on paper, isn't it?
How's the mirage? Any mirage at all and you can forget a clean mil.
Your position? Even in a stable prone it's tough to cleanly mil. Even slightly unstable position? Forget it.
Temperature? Is it cold as a witches tit and you can't stop shaking?
You get the idea. There's numbers, then there's execution.
Like anything. Preparation, knowing your rifle, load etc is paramount. I've seen some crazy 1st round cold bore shots in F class over the years, even at 1,000 yards.
We shoot FTR and SR matches at a local club that has a cold bore challenge. 1st shot X at 600 yards gets a poker chip saying cold bore X at 600. Most X's end of season gets $100. Both my sons have got the chip, one in FTR and other in SR. So that's cold bore shot in 3" circle and the other with sling a 6" circle at 600 yards on 1st shot.
Went out west 5 years ago to shoot some ELR. We went from 1000-2000 yards shooting a .338 LM with a 300g Berger at IPSC sized target. Full disclosure as I'm not saying this was a cold bore shot. Just results at different distances:
We shot 1000, 1st round hit center. Moved to 1,500 yards. Target was on hill and wind switched back and forth like crazy. Probably took 15 shots and never hit it. Waited for wind changes and didn't matter, never hit it.
Was running out of ammo and said lets move to the mile target. I hit in 1st shot, son 2 in 1st shot. Wind picked up a bit son 1 was bit off 1st and missed and hit on 2nd shot. We moved to 2,000 and and son 2 hit on 3rd shot, son 1 next shot.
Point with all this is. Target position in relation to wind will ruin or make your day.
Hit or miss, still better than golf!
We shoot FTR and SR matches at a local club that has a cold bore challenge. 1st shot X at 600 yards gets a poker chip saying cold bore X at 600. Most X's end of season gets $100. Both my sons have got the chip, one in FTR and other in SR. So that's cold bore shot in 3" circle and the other with sling a 6" circle at 600 yards on 1st shot.
Went out west 5 years ago to shoot some ELR. We went from 1000-2000 yards shooting a .338 LM with a 300g Berger at IPSC sized target. Full disclosure as I'm not saying this was a cold bore shot. Just results at different distances:
We shot 1000, 1st round hit center. Moved to 1,500 yards. Target was on hill and wind switched back and forth like crazy. Probably took 15 shots and never hit it. Waited for wind changes and didn't matter, never hit it.
Was running out of ammo and said lets move to the mile target. I hit in 1st shot, son 2 in 1st shot. Wind picked up a bit son 1 was bit off 1st and missed and hit on 2nd shot. We moved to 2,000 and and son 2 hit on 3rd shot, son 1 next shot.
Point with all this is. Target position in relation to wind will ruin or make your day.
Hit or miss, still better than golf!
You need to come out to Kansas and try for one of our huge ass flatland deer.
They are giant, we don't go by how many points they have, we go by how large the diameter of the antler base is.....4 inches is a nice one, yes they get that big here.
You are not going to find one at 100 yards unless it's been hit by a car.....400 is the closest shot I've gotten in Kansas, ever, and I've dropped them at 800, single cold bore shot.
Or....you could try some eastern Co. red desert speed goats.....g'luck there.
Just because YOU can't make the shot, does not mean someone else cannot.
I use a Swarovski 3-18x56 PH scope on my hunting 30-06 with the BRX reticle.....sure it's a light barreled Rem700 sporter, but it's accurate, and I've been using it exclusively for over 20 years now, so I know it, and I know it well.
Hell, I have a Ruger super blackhawk with the 10.5" barrel that I have rung a turkey silhouette at 475 yards.....every single shot.
Granted I have a Leupy 4x EER scope on it (M8 if I'm not mistaken, I've had it a few days
) and am putting the target right at the very bottom of the reticle, but it does it, and does it all day long. 300 grain XTP with LOTS of H110 (way more than I would ever admit).
Yes. Need more of that
Did you miss the part about unknown range etc
15 feet? I know cause I never miss the sky screens on the chrono.
Cold bore? No problem. I'll just work some concrete and bench 275 before the shot as a warm up. And my Quigley Ford will automatically adjust everything for me I just have to pull the trigger. On out to as far as the space shuttle will fly I suppose.
In reality, I would feel confident out to 400 yards under the conditions specified. Could I go further? Maybe. But confidence would wane greatly.
Cold bore? No problem. I'll just work some concrete and bench 275 before the shot as a warm up. And my Quigley Ford will automatically adjust everything for me I just have to pull the trigger. On out to as far as the space shuttle will fly I suppose.
In reality, I would feel confident out to 400 yards under the conditions specified. Could I go further? Maybe. But confidence would wane greatly.
Maybe I should add.
I don't even own a rangefinder.....after the shot I pace it off.
Add also, the wind is NEVER still in Kansas......just drive thru the state and you'll figure that shit out.
The pistol stuff, that I do at a range with a known distance......and get kicked out because the range officer doesn't like me shooting his turkey and doesn't believe I'm doing it with a pistol.
So, we had a bet....but that's a different story for a different thread.
I would love to have that chance. And notice that I didn’t make any claims. I’m just stating what I’ve seen.
You may very well be one of the 10% that actually have the experience and knowledge to do this as stated. Kudos to you.
I feel pretty good saying 600. Only because I know what a 12" plate looks like at 600. I have a hunting load dope proofing plate at 600 that I shoot all the time. Its a 1/4 piece of AR500 that is absolutely beat to hell. 400 would be barely in the PBR for that target with my 06 zeroed at 300 but im not sure about betting on 475 and I certainly wouldn't bet on 650.
I'll hopefully get to try my hand at a bigass Kansas buck here in a couple weeks. That said, I'll be rangefinding it.
I'll hopefully get to try my hand at a bigass Kansas buck here in a couple weeks. That said, I'll be rangefinding it.
Plenty of big deer shot by archers and muzzle loader hunters. Because you can’t doesn’t mean it can’t be done.
I don’t remember where I saw it, but there was an interview with an active duty sniper and the question was something to the effect of “what do you do when you are unsure of a shot you must make?” The answer was “get closer.”
I don’t remember where I saw it, but there was an interview with an active duty sniper and the question was something to the effect of “what do you do when you are unsure of a shot you must make?” The answer was “get closer.”
With my Quigley Ford and it’s awesome reticle, I can make first round hits at twice that distance with my new 7mm ManBun out of my custom Tactical Rifles Savage M40. Minute of thumb all day.
You using “pretty dang good” ammo?
It's a pissing hot load his cop buddy who started reloading last week made up for him.
Fill her to the rim, scrape it off with a table knife, and cram a bullet down in there. Embrace the crunch…
A friend smoked a doe at 1006 this evening.
He's better than average.
Subjective questions receive varying answers.
R
He's better than average.
Subjective questions receive varying answers.
R
LOL. If you don't believe that, then you sure wouldn't believe some of the shots I pulled off with a .22 and .222 at night. Like the ringtail cat (Google is your friend) sitting in an oak tree in a cliff 150 yds yards away I shot from a boat from the middle of Lake Austin at night.
Or a 'coon I shot at night sitting in a dead tree on top of a huge bluff (Mount. Bonnell) from below in a boat in Lake Austin. His eyes, which would normally shine like two red dot sights, were one, he was so far away. That shot was 150 yds. at night with a .22 Marlin 39 A with open sights.
Then there were the ducks that flew up off the water at night that we were able to stay under and keep a light on I shot out of the air with a .22...
I took it to mean a plain non-duplex reticle as well. Assuming you could eyeball that it was closer to 300 than 200 in unfamiliar terrain, 300 yards would be doable with .223 and up for me.
Don't prove it lol
Some rules don’t apply if yer under the influence of a stupefying substance.
It's Texas.
Folks around here here like to hunt under a 'stupefying substance'.
'I was stupefyed your honor.'
I like to post on SH under a stupefying substance. Hell, I'm about half stupifyed now.
If I tried to drive right now, I could be charged with DWS.
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I was banging C zone size steel out to 200 last weekend with my 460s&w. 2.5-8x weaver, I think I was on 6x. Using the bottle neck portion of the duplex reticle as an aiming point put me about 2" low of poa.
The answer to your question depends less on the math and more on the the capability of the system. The math is easy. The system of course includes the human behind the rifle. That is the only important thing. If your zero is not spot, or you lie to yourself about your dispersion at 100 yards then the easy math that follows will be wrong.
If the wind is a known number and you have tested and know the capability of your system and you have a few drop numbers in your memory then the rest is easy.
I have tested my system always starting with a cold bore shot, separated from groups so I know what my capability are for those. I also have memorized some drop numbers. It all starts at 100 yards.
I use a Vortex Razor - FFP, Mils, with a great ranging reticle. The first number to remember is that at 100 yards. There are 3/10 mils in an inch (1.08-inch actually). If the target is a KNOWN 24 inches wide then that equals 24 times 3 so I call that 7.5 mils (rounding in the .08) at 100 yards. The rest is easy. Test, test, test the system - A LOT! I always have a red grid on my targets.
With my 6mm ARC bolt gun I can easily hit that target in that wind @ 650 yards every time and every where else closer than that.
Now my cold bore shots:
The most important shot - Cold bore at 100 yards:
That leads to this cold bore at 630 yards - no wind:
Then a 5-shot Group at 630 yards in 3-5MPH wind with no correction (a wind test). Each red square = 1/10 mil at 600 yards.
And last, a 5-shot group dispersion at 300 yards - 6-inch target. Wind 3-7 - corrected to 5mph.
If the wind is a known number and you have tested and know the capability of your system and you have a few drop numbers in your memory then the rest is easy.
I have tested my system always starting with a cold bore shot, separated from groups so I know what my capability are for those. I also have memorized some drop numbers. It all starts at 100 yards.
I use a Vortex Razor - FFP, Mils, with a great ranging reticle. The first number to remember is that at 100 yards. There are 3/10 mils in an inch (1.08-inch actually). If the target is a KNOWN 24 inches wide then that equals 24 times 3 so I call that 7.5 mils (rounding in the .08) at 100 yards. The rest is easy. Test, test, test the system - A LOT! I always have a red grid on my targets.
With my 6mm ARC bolt gun I can easily hit that target in that wind @ 650 yards every time and every where else closer than that.
Now my cold bore shots:
The most important shot - Cold bore at 100 yards:
That leads to this cold bore at 630 yards - no wind:
Then a 5-shot Group at 630 yards in 3-5MPH wind with no correction (a wind test). Each red square = 1/10 mil at 600 yards.
And last, a 5-shot group dispersion at 300 yards - 6-inch target. Wind 3-7 - corrected to 5mph.
Thats not uncommon. Ross Seyfried warmed up before practicing by shooting 10" steel plates at 80yds with a 1911.
When McCormick and I shot, we'd do the same thing. There is something inherently natural about shooting the furthest target downrange to get your game face on.
That makes me feel better about my last windy outing.The answer to your question depends less on the math and more on the the capability of the system. The math is easy. The system of course includes the human behind the rifle. That is the only important thing. If your zero is not spot, or you lie to yourself about your dispersion at 100 yards then the easy math that follows will be wrong.
If the wind is a known number and you have tested and know the capability of your system and you have a few drop numbers in your memory then the rest is easy.
I have tested my system always starting with a cold bore shot, separated from groups so I know what my capability are for those. I also have memorized some drop numbers. It all starts at 100 yards.
I use a Vortex Razor - FFP, Mils, with a great ranging reticle. The first number to remember is that at 100 yards. There are 3/10 mils in an inch (1.08-inch actually). If the target is a KNOWN 24 inches wide then that equals 24 times 3 so I call that 7.5 mils (rounding in the .08) at 100 yards. The rest is easy. Test, test, test the system - A LOT! I always have a red grid on my targets.
With my 6mm ARC bolt gun I can easily hit that target in that wind @ 650 yards every time and every where else closer than that.
Now my cold bore shots:
The most important shot - Cold bore at 100 yards:
That leads to this cold bore at 630 yards - no wind:
Then a 5-shot Group at 630 yards in 3-5MPH wind with no correction (a wind test). Each red square = 1/10 mil at 600 yards.
And last, a 5-shot group dispersion at 300 yards - 6-inch target. Wind 3-7 - corrected to 5mph.
Fortunately, there were witnesses that are still alive.
In high school I shot a buzzard sitting on top of a high line tower at near 200 yds. with a .22. I had a witness that crapped his pants when he saw it.
Next day at school I was telling others about it and said "Lehman here saw it." Lehman (last name) said "What buzzard?" Everybody walked off. He thought it was funny and to this day, if I mention that buzzard he laughs and says "What buzzard?" He still thinks thats so funny. Fucker.
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You're a bad dude. I've done 10 for 10 on the same size target with a browning buckmark at 100 yards. Standing offhand. Wasn't difficult at all really. But I struggle with a 9mm or 45. I just don't shoot as much as I used to.
True story, I had recently bought a new sig full size 1911 in 45acp and I hadn't even shot it yet. It was laying in the front seat of my truck and my brother picked it up. I told him it was loaded so he took it and walked out to my backyard range where he proceeded to go 7 for 8 on a chicken silhouette at 85 yards. Guy is just a natural born trigger puller but I can rarely get him to shoot with me.
Depends how much time I have to break the shot.
Less than 5 seconds I would say 400yds
-wind bracket well within plate plus elevation will impact +/-120yds including if I’m off a tenth on remembering dope. I should be able to estimate range within +/-120yds at 400!
Greater than 5 seconds and less than 45 seconds 555yds.
-that’s 2” a tenth so real quick measure in the scope of the plate width and elevation. Wind bracket still inside of the plate out to 600yds and my elevation will impact +/-75yds…and quick reticle milling will get me within 50 at that range. And I would be able to remember my dope within a tenth out to 600yds.
As much time as I want? Without mirage? 833yds. Spend plenty of time getting the wind within 2mph. Measure many times width and elevation of plate. Using average of measurements should get me within 25yds/couple tenths of elevation. Would help if I was able to scratch some numbers in the dirt. And I should be able to remember/guess dope in that 700-900 range within a couple tenths plus just rounding up. And at 833 I’ve got 8 tenths of elevation to play with.
This is all assuming my rifle is still shooting .1-.15mil. If it’s not…those max range numbers drop a little bit.
Super fun post to think about…and very practical. I shot my antelope at 620yds last year with about 15 seconds to deploy bipod get to my belly and estimate range…remember dope and rough out a wind call. They were running across a flat and I figured they would stop on top of the hill. Dialed elevation and held wind. Shot it for 600 and guessed wind at 15mph…that was just luck…but I did take a kestrel reading a few hours before and was 12-14. If he would have been 675yds I would have shot under him.
"Yeah, yeah Boomer, I got this shit."
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