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Rifle Scopes How many PST FFP's hit the market

sobrbiker883

sobrbiker883

Lt. Colonel
Full Member
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Sep 18, 2003
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Gilbert AZ
#1
and how many are actually being used by members??

After listening to "I'd wait 'til the PST's come out" all year long when people inquired about economical scopes, I'm curious where all these parrots went??

I may be in the market for a cheap FFP mil/mil, and after looking through a couple Falcons Sunday may go that route, but I am very intrigued by the Vortex option. Just interesting that there are a couple threads with good intel firsthand, but that is a tiny amount compared to how many folks were clamoring for them.........
 
#3
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

my vote is for the $199 bushnell fixed 10x mil knobs with mildot and has 80 moa of adjustment. they are at midway on special right now if interested. i have used a few of the mil/moa version and they tracked well. i am getting one to keep in my pack as a back up should anything happen to my match optic.
 
#4
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

I've been touting the virtues of the 10X3200MD for years, but for my application it doesn't fit.
I am interested in a variable and its gotta have parallax adjustment (the achilles heel of the 10X3200 in my opinion).

If I can't find a Falcon 4-14 with 2nd gen knobs that hasn't fallen apart for <$300 and I have to go fixed it will be a SWFA SS. That's a solid base model scope, and for the edge of parallax control I can convert mils to moa.
 
#7
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are only 25 to 30 units out there.

Mike @ CST </div></div>

Yep, that was a big FU to all of us that had been waiting for one. I know I have been on the list for one since December. How long should we continue waiting on them with no information? And if they do say when they're going to release some more then how do we know it won't be just 5 or 10 this time?
 
#8
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

I got one in 6-24 and am really happy with, only issue is the knobs, but Sam@vortex already told me they take care of that after the second batch is ready. If you can wait, I would hold out, they ate miles ahead of a falcon menace.
 
#9
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

I've been anxiously awaiting the arrival of the PSTs, though not as long as some people. With 3 rifles needing glass and no definite ETA, I did end up purchasing 2 other less expensive and more available scopes. One is a Wotac 4-14x50mm for my LR-308 which I am verry happy with so far for what I paid for it.
The other is a Bushnell 4200 Elite Tactical 6-24x50mm. I am very impressed with the quality of this scope. The glass is very clear throughout the scope. The clicks are solid and audible, holds zero and it tracks perfectly as far as I can tell. If the Viper PSTs are as good as the 4200 with matching ret/adjustments, IR and FFP, I will be very happy with them.
If you can't (or choose not to) wait for the PSTs, Why not check out the 4200 FFP?
 
#10
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are only 25 to 30 units out there.

</div></div>

Wow! is that true? I thought there was more than that, but to all that are considering, they are worth the wait.
 
#11
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

I've got a Falcon, it's a decent scope for the money, the glass is good and it seems to track ok, my problems with it are the lack of customer support if you do have a problem and the knobs are numb, when you turn them you can hear them click but cant feel them stop on the clicks, I took it off and replaced it with a USO, if I had to spend the money again I'm not sure I would
 
#12
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are only 25 to 30 units out there.

Mike @ CST </div></div>

Yep, that was a big FU to all of us that had been waiting for one. I know I have been on the list for one since December. How long should we continue waiting on them with no information? And if they do say when they're going to release some more then how do we know it won't be just 5 or 10 this time? </div></div>

I feel Vortex is looking out for the end-user by making sure they do not send out an inferior product. Form what I saw of the PST I was happy so they should in theory be even better and I like that idea.

Mike @ CS TACTICAL.com
 
#13
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

I'm sure the reason for the delay is that they want to make sure they produce a great product. This is why I am still on the list for one and waiting.

My annoyance is just with how it was handled....
To me they should have made an announcement saying they were having issues and that it was going to cause some delays and the expected June release date is now going to be postponed until .......

Instead, they sent out just a handful of scopes in June to act like things were rolling and on schedule..... which they obviously were not.
 
#14
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got a Falcon, it's a decent scope for the money, the glass is good and it seems to track ok, my problems with it are the lack of customer support if you do have a problem and the knobs are numb, when you turn them you can hear them click but cant feel them stop on the clicks, I took it off and replaced it with a USO, if I had to spend the money again I'm not sure I would </div></div>

If you take the turret caps off, spray them out with silicone lubricant spray and wipe them out, spray a light coat as lube, then spray the oring off with and wipe them down and replace the caps you will see a huge improvement on the feel of the clicks and response.
If it is nothing but a range gun, you could take the orings out.
A falcon is a 400 dollar scope, it is an excellent scope for the money invested.
I replaced mine with an IOR 3-18, but i put my falcon on my .223 trainer.
 
#15
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure the reason for the delay is that they want to make sure they produce a great product. This is why I am still on the list for one and waiting.

My annoyance is just with how it was handled....
To me they should have made an announcement saying they were having issues and that it was going to cause some delays and the expected June release date is now going to be postponed until .......

Instead, they sent out just a handful of scopes in June to act like things were rolling and on schedule..... which they obviously were not.
</div></div>
They rolled out the pre-shipment as a beta-test. Got the feedback on some MINOR issues and are working to correct them.
This is what happens when you try to rush things to market.
They would have been better served to keep mum about the release date at Shot Show and sent a few out for test and evaluation.
 
#16
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got a Falcon, it's a decent scope for the money, the glass is good and it seems to track ok, my problems with it are the lack of customer support if you do have a problem and the knobs are numb, when you turn them you can hear them click but cant feel them stop on the clicks, I took it off and replaced it with a USO, if I had to spend the money again I'm not sure I would </div></div>

Did you try cleaning the turrets out and relubing the o-ring?
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1980477#Post1980477

It seemed to help the user in the post I linked, and I've read of others who did the same to good result.

Cheers,
Jim
 
#17
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> They rolled out the pre-shipment as a beta-test. Got the feedback on some MINOR issues and are working to correct them.
</div></div>

You say this like you have inside knowledge that this was planned. If so, did the people that pre-ordered have communication that their scope were bete testing models and will they be replaced with debugged production models (or did they get a discount)?
All I remember seeing is vendors advertising "Pre-orders" and Vortex offering an availability date.

If beta testing was the plan they could have easily said so from the get go.
 
#18
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

I can assure you that we did not send any scopes out as "beta testers". Yes, admittedly we made a few mistakes along this road, but hey hindsight is 20/20. We honestly felt like they would be ready sometime around June, so that was our best estimation and really was just that, an estimation and we tried our best to be very clear about that. If we could go back in time would we do things a little different, absolutely. Unfortunately we can not so we are doing what we feel is best to bring our customers a scope that they will be happy with. For those of you that dont already know we have redesigned the turret(and tested it) to have more resistance while still having a nice crisp tactile feel. It will take a little while to get the scopes done with the new turret internals(machining,assembly,more testing,etc...).
We are not giving out any estimations on delivery times this time around but, I can promise you that we are sparing no expense to get these done correctly and as quickly as possible. Another thing I can promise you is that we want these scopes on the market and in your hands just a bad as anyone. We are sorry it is taking so long, but we are confident that it will be worth the wait.


Sincerely
Scott
 
#19
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

I got two of the PST's in FFP 4-16. The first one had an issue on a lens, but Scott was very quick to replace it and I had the new one in hand within a week. The scopes are fantastic and for the money, you just can't beat it. The biggest complaint has been that the turrets aren't tight enough, but I was told by Scott at Vortex that when they start shipping again, that will be corrected. Further, he told me that when the new ones are released he would send me two to replace the ones I have. You cannot beat Vortex's customer service.
 
#20
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

Thanks for chiming in Scott.

While I wasn't one who preordered, I am one whose been waiting to see how the PST's turn out.

I kind of posted the thread as a way to maybe hear the rumors, and better you have them straightened out so everyone has better intel.

Sometimes it just takes someone putting the question out there to get the strsight skinny, and I can definitely appreciate your position. I look forward to seeing the results of the redisign when it does come out.
 
#21
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

Unfortunately, I'm one of the pre-order folks (since early May) that has been patiently waiting for my <span style="font-weight: bold">Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP Mil/Mil</span> and have yet to hear anything. Mike at CS was kind enough to quickly respond to my inquiries about 'when' I might expect it back in late June, but even he, a dealer, isn't getting answers from Vortex.

I sent off an e-mail to Vortex directly to inquire about them two weeks ago and have received no response,... This is disrespectful of the customer to me. The fact that they (vortex) aren't willing to acknowledge those that have already paid $$$ for the product, have already blown a stated ETA on when they will become available having only released a paltry 25-30 units, and are now unwilling to keep their clients updated leads me to believe that things are a lot worse than we know - when left to formulate their own reality (<span style="font-weight: bold">vacuum</span>), the customer always chooses the worst case scenario. The CYOA (Cover-Your-Own-Ass) posture Vortex has taken on this matter has been a PR train-wreck, and speaks volumes of the amateurs handling their PR and CS departments. One can only surmise that they handle, and have handled given the blown ETA's, their own supply-chain and internal mfg processes similarly. That said,... and I do feel better having vented a little,... I'm sure they have only the best of intentions and really do want to get these products in their customers hands,... However, at this point they need to worry less about their own interests and '<span style="font-weight: bold">come clean</span>' with their customers by stating '<span style="font-weight: bold">exactly</span>' when/what we can expect . The current policy of, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"We're sorry, just a little longer, but they'll be worth the wait"</span></span> isn't cutting it anymore... if it ever did. Better to state an updated (<span style="font-weight: bold">REAL</span>) ETA on when these products will be available so that their <span style="font-weight: bold">CUSTOMERS</span>,... remember them,... can make informed decisions as to if-and-when they will order the product. If anything, this current PR policy gives the impression that Vortex is <span style="font-weight: bold">SO</span> out of touch with its' own supply-chain and mfg. processes, they honestly don't even know what they're doing and when they'll be doing it,... not good.

I was hoping to receive my scope by hunting season, but given that even now, mid-August, we're left to flounder by Vortex and kibitz on message boards as to when we might expect them, we probably won't be seeing any of these things 'til the end of the year in any sort of numbers,... if then,...

<span style="font-weight: bold">COME CLEAN VORTEX!!! WHAT'S THE DEALEO!!!</span>
confused.gif


 
#22
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

I sm one that prepaid also and am still patiently waiting,I have a new rifle sitting here with the 20 mao base and 30 mm rings on it just waiting to get sighted in for my nov hunt but am starting to realize that it might not happen, starting to look at plan b which is I DONT KNOW, alternative 1, get my money back and buy something else 2, buy a cheaper scope to get me buy until this one gets in hmmmmm I have no idea I was so excited about the ffp and moa hash marked reticle wasnt really wanting to go with a mil dot reticle but may have to, oh and 3, let my new rifle collect cob webs and dig out my 300rum again for another year
 
#23
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blurry6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unfortunately, I'm one of the pre-order folks (since early May) that has been patiently waiting for my <span style="font-weight: bold">Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP Mil/Mil</span> and have yet to hear anything. Mike at CS was kind enough to quickly respond to my inquiries about 'when' I might expect it back in late June, but even he, a dealer, isn't getting answers from Vortex.

I sent off an e-mail to Vortex directly to inquire about them two weeks ago and have received no response,... This is disrespectful of the customer to me. The fact that they (vortex) aren't willing to acknowledge those that have already paid $$$ for the product, have already blown a stated ETA on when they will become available having only released a paltry 25-30 units, and are now unwilling to keep their clients updated leads me to believe that things are a lot worse than we know - when left to formulate their own reality (<span style="font-weight: bold">vacuum</span>), the customer always chooses the worst case scenario. The CYOA (Cover-Your-Own-Ass) posture Vortex has taken on this matter has been a PR train-wreck, and speaks volumes of the amateurs handling their PR and CS departments. One can only surmise that they handle, and have handled given the blown ETA's, their own supply-chain and internal mfg processes similarly. That said,... and I do feel better having vented a little,... I'm sure they have only the best of intentions and really do want to get these products in their customers hands,... However, at this point they need to worry less about their own interests and '<span style="font-weight: bold">come clean</span>' with their customers by stating '<span style="font-weight: bold">exactly</span>' when/what we can expect . The current policy of, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"We're sorry, just a little longer, but they'll be worth the wait"</span></span> isn't cutting it anymore... if it ever did. Better to state an updated (<span style="font-weight: bold">REAL</span>) ETA on when these products will be available so that their <span style="font-weight: bold">CUSTOMERS</span>,... remember them,... can make informed decisions as to if-and-when they will order the product. If anything, this current PR policy gives the impression that Vortex is <span style="font-weight: bold">SO</span> out of touch with its' own supply-chain and mfg. processes, they honestly don't even know what they're doing and when they'll be doing it,... not good.

I was hoping to receive my scope by hunting season, but given that even now, mid-August, we're left to flounder by Vortex and kibitz on message boards as to when we might expect them, we probably won't be seeing any of these things 'til the end of the year in any sort of numbers,... if then,...

<span style="font-weight: bold">COME CLEAN VORTEX!!! WHAT'S THE DEALEO!!!</span>
confused.gif


</div></div>

Vortex has been honest, transparent, and clear about the ETA on the scopes the entire time and have stated over and over that it was only the first shipment that would be released. The fact that you paid your money upfront is between YOU and the dealer that took your money, I'm sure Vortex hasn't seen a penny of it nor do they want to. I suppose being an honest, upfront company isn't good enough anymore? We want our scopes NOW, damnit. Right?
 
#24
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Vortex has been honest, transparent, and clear about the ETA on the scopes the entire time and have stated over and over that it was only the first shipment that would be released. The fact that you paid your money upfront is between YOU and the dealer that took your money, I'm sure Vortex hasn't seen a penny of it nor do they want to. I suppose being an honest, upfront company isn't good enough anymore? We want our scopes NOW, damnit. Right? </div></div>

Maybe I missed the <span style="font-weight: bold">'honest, transparent, and clear'</span> memo on the ETA for these? Where is it? I look at their site and can't find any mention of delays, or at least an update,...? I guess I have a different definition of <span style="font-weight: bold">'honest, transparent, and clear'</span> than you do,... must be the new Obama definition?

Have the vendors been updated as to their status? From what I hear from Mike @ CSTACTICAL, he has yet to hear anything at this point.

Listen, I realize 'things happen' that can throw the ship off-course, and that even with the best of intentions things rarely go according to plan, but the <span style="font-weight: bold">'honest, transparent, and clear'</span> thing to do is to update your customers regularly should things astray - Vortex hasn't done this. To look at their site, you'll find all the info you ever wanted to know on the specs of the product, but nothing on the fact that it's <span style="font-weight: bold">NOT AVAILABLE!</span> To look at it (site), you'd think they have stacks waiting to be delivered, but unless you do some digging from other sources, only then will you find out that it's not the case - this isn't being <span style="font-weight: bold">'honest, transparent, and clear'</span>.

From what I CAN discern, they've only delivered a very limited qty of certain PST models, but again their site doesn't state that, or that the up-'til-now undelivered models are COMING SOON. Meanwhile, they have a crop of other NEW products listed,... I wonder if any dealers have seen any of those,... All I want is a friggin' update,... maybe <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">YOU</span> </span>can give me a link to some useful info,... ?

Let's keep up this thread,... Maybe it'll force someone inside Vortex to divulge some info that's actually useful.
 
#25
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blurry6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Vortex has been honest, transparent, and clear about the ETA on the scopes the entire time and have stated over and over that it was only the first shipment that would be released. The fact that you paid your money upfront is between YOU and the dealer that took your money, I'm sure Vortex hasn't seen a penny of it nor do they want to. I suppose being an honest, upfront company isn't good enough anymore? We want our scopes NOW, damnit. Right? </div></div>

Maybe I missed the <span style="font-weight: bold">'honest, transparent, and clear'</span> memo on the ETA for these? Where is it? I look at their site and can't find any mention of delays, or at least an update,...? I guess I have a different definition of <span style="font-weight: bold">'honest, transparent, and clear'</span> than you do,... must be the new Obama definition?

Have the vendors been updated as to their status? From what I hear from Mike @ CSTACTICAL, he has yet to hear anything at this point.

Listen, I realize 'things happen' that can throw the ship off-course, and that even with the best of intentions things rarely go according to plan, but the <span style="font-weight: bold">'honest, transparent, and clear'</span> thing to do is to update your customers regularly should things astray - Vortex hasn't done this. To look at their site, you'll find all the info you ever wanted to know on the specs of the product, but nothing on the fact that it's <span style="font-weight: bold">NOT AVAILABLE!</span> To look at it (site), you'd think they have stacks waiting to be delivered, but unless you do some digging from other sources, only then will you find out that it's not the case - this isn't being <span style="font-weight: bold">'honest, transparent, and clear'</span>.

From what I CAN discern, they've only delivered a very limited qty of certain PST models, but again their site doesn't state that, or that the up-'til-now undelivered models are COMING SOON. Meanwhile, they have a crop of other NEW products listed,... I wonder if any dealers have seen any of those,... All I want is a friggin' update,... maybe <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">YOU</span> </span>can give me a link to some useful info,... ?

Let's keep up this thread,... Maybe it'll force someone inside Vortex to divulge some info that's actually useful. </div></div>Jeez blurry...find another scope and quit whining already...no one's forcing you to stick with Vortex.
 
#26
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blurry6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Maybe I missed the <span style="font-weight: bold">'honest, transparent, and clear'</span> memo on the ETA for these? Where is it? I look at their site and can't find any mention of delays, or at least an update,...? I guess I have a different definition of <span style="font-weight: bold">'honest, transparent, and clear'</span> than you do,... must be the new Obama definition?

Have the vendors been updated as to their status? From what I hear from Mike @ CSTACTICAL, he has yet to hear anything at this point.

Listen, I realize 'things happen' that can throw the ship off-course, and that even with the best of intentions things rarely go according to plan, but the <span style="font-weight: bold">'honest, transparent, and clear'</span> thing to do is to update your customers regularly should things astray - Vortex hasn't done this. To look at their site, you'll find all the info you ever wanted to know on the specs of the product, but nothing on the fact that it's <span style="font-weight: bold">NOT AVAILABLE!</span> To look at it (site), you'd think they have stacks waiting to be delivered, but unless you do some digging from other sources, only then will you find out that it's not the case - this isn't being <span style="font-weight: bold">'honest, transparent, and clear'</span>.

From what I CAN discern, they've only delivered a very limited qty of certain PST models, but again their site doesn't state that, or that the up-'til-now undelivered models are COMING SOON. Meanwhile, they have a crop of other NEW products listed,... I wonder if any dealers have seen any of those,... All I want is a friggin' update,... maybe <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">YOU</span> </span>can give me a link to some useful info,... ?

Let's keep up this thread,... Maybe it'll force someone inside Vortex to divulge some info that's actually useful. </div></div>

You're posting this in a thread where the actual company rep gave an update just up the page from your rantings?

You (and I) pre-ordered a new item. We took the chance that things could go awry, it comes with the territory.
 
#27
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelcomp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeez blurry...find another scope and quit whining already...no one's forcing you to stick with Vortex. </div></div>

Hah!! You're right,... I'm just gonna see if Mike will put the funds I've submitted toward one of the AICS 2.0 LA stocks or maybe a Nightforce F1,... if anything, it's been like having some play money in the bank (CSTACTICAL).

It just irks me that companies feel it's enough to simply say <span style="font-weight: bold">"Sorry guys, we'll get back to ya"</span> and expect customers to bend-over and take it,... and that customers are so willing to just bend-over.

They gave an ETA before,... why not now?

I know I'm blowing this way out of proportion, but it's always been a sticking point with me - do what you say you're going to do, when you say you're going to do it,... and if you can't, let me know BEFORE you can't deliver,... guess that's too much to ask.
laugh.gif
 
#28
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Benjamin_Breeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You're posting this in a thread where the actual company rep gave an update just up the page from your rantings?

You (and I) pre-ordered a new item. We took the chance that things could go awry, it comes with the territory. </div></div>

Yeah, I know I'm ranting, but it makes me feel better
smile.gif
I also appreciate that this is a NEW product and it comes with the territory, but given that we've already received an ETA that's come and gone, I think it's within my(our) right as pre-paid customers to apply some pressure for an accurate update,... just sayin'
laugh.gif
 
#29
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

Blurry,

As others said, it comes with the territory... I feel vortex has played their cards right from the point they heard their turrets were too loose to be satisfactory. You ask;
"They gave an ETA before,... why not now?"

REALLY??? Their given ETA before was what totally screwed them! You remember when people were saying "Um, its June and I don't have my scope yet! WTF VORTEX??!!" I believe Vortex is trying to avoid that a second time.
As Scott has admitted, they should have fully developed/tested the scopes instead of hyping them soo much before release dates were KNOWN. They ALWAYS said that the scopes were "Expected" for a June/July delivery date, not guaranteed.

Mike
 
#30
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blurry,

You ask;
"They gave an ETA before,... why not now?"

REALLY??? Their given ETA before was what totally screwed them! You remember when people were saying "Um, its June and I don't have my scope yet! WTF VORTEX??!!" I believe Vortex is trying to avoid that a second time.
As Scott has admitted, they should have fully developed/tested the scopes instead of hyping them soo much before release dates were KNOWN. They ALWAYS said that the scopes were "Expected" for a June/July delivery date, not guaranteed.

Mike </div></div>

Exactly my thoughts!!
 
#31
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blurry6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Benjamin_Breeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You're posting this in a thread where the actual company rep gave an update just up the page from your rantings?

You (and I) pre-ordered a new item. We took the chance that things could go awry, it comes with the territory. </div></div>

Yeah, I know I'm ranting, but it makes me feel better
smile.gif
I also appreciate that this is a NEW product and it comes with the territory, but given that we've already received an ETA that's come and gone, I think it's within my(our) right as pre-paid customers to apply some pressure for an accurate update,... just sayin'
laugh.gif
</div></div>

You're really going to hold on to that whole "pre-paid customer" deal, aren't ya? Well buddy, that's between YOU and the person who took your money. Vortex hasn't seen that money, they don't owe you anything. They are doing their best to revise the product (to, gasp, improve it) and you're sitting here bitching like a little girl that you don't have your scope already. I guess the fact that Scott (of Vortex) has posted here on Sniper's Hide 110 times, mostly pertaining to the exact scopes we're talking about, isn't clear enough for you? Or what about the update that Scott @ Liberty Optics just posted (from Vortex). Grow up, and go cry somewhere else.
 
#32
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blurry6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelcomp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeez blurry...find another scope and quit whining already...no one's forcing you to stick with Vortex. </div></div>

Hah!! You're right,... I'm just gonna see if Mike will put the funds I've submitted toward one of the AICS 2.0 LA stocks or maybe a Nightforce F1,... if anything, it's been like having some play money in the bank (CSTACTICAL).

It just irks me that companies feel it's enough to simply say <span style="font-weight: bold">"Sorry guys, we'll get back to ya"</span> and expect customers to bend-over and take it,... and that customers are so willing to just bend-over.

<span style="color: #3333FF"> <span style="font-weight: bold">They gave an ETA before,... why not now</span>?</span>
I know I'm blowing this way out of proportion, but it's always been a sticking point with me - do what you say you're going to do, when you say you're going to do it,... and if you can't, let me know BEFORE you can't deliver,... guess that's too much to ask.
laugh.gif
</div></div>

ETA = <span style="font-style: italic">estimated </span> time of arrival. Vortex gave an <span style="font-style: italic">estimate </span> of June, and now they are being crucified for it. Is it really surprising that Scott is reluctant to give any further estimates that might be percieved as promises?
He has already said they are redesigning the turrets to address a concern that customers had with the existing scopes.
Many companies would have left the turrets as they were in order to get the scopes to market, and then taken their time to redo the turrets for a "Gen II" that would be made available at a later time.
Would it have been nice if the turrets were great from the start? Yes. But I think it is admirable that they are correcting an issue based on customer feeback <span style="font-style: italic"> before</span>
the scopes have officially hit the market.
I think at this point if Vortex was to give another estimate, it would be "the PSTs will be available when they are ready.",
but to most that wouldn't be a satisfactory answer.
Vortex gave an "estimate" under pressure from the public, based on the best information they had at the time. It was the public that collectively turned that into a "deadline". Is that really Vortex's fault?

I want my PST now, like everyone else, but I appreciate that when I do get it, that it will be right.
Back in January when I decided I wanted one, I anticipated a wait, so I bought a Millett TRS-1 because I wanted to shoot my rifle in the mean time. If a Nightforce F1 was in my financial grasp, I surely would have bought one. Unfortunately, for many of us, it is not. That being said, the PX is full of deals on decent budget scopes that one could use in the meantime to "fill those empty rings".
 
#33
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

I recall another much anticipated scope having pretty much the same story last year, but it cost 4 times as much and the June, then July deadlines got fulfilled in Nov/Dec.....

It'll all work out in the end, one way or another.

I appreciate Sam and Scott posting what and when they do, and I think Scott's post above my last one is a pretty sufficient explanation of what's going on.
 
#34
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blurry,

As others said, it comes with the territory... I feel vortex has played their cards right from the point they heard their turrets were too loose to be satisfactory. You ask;
"They gave an ETA before,... why not now?"

REALLY??? Their given ETA before was what totally screwed them! You remember when people were saying "Um, its June and I don't have my scope yet! WTF VORTEX??!!" I believe Vortex is trying to avoid that a second time.
As Scott has admitted, they should have fully developed/tested the scopes instead of hyping them soo much before release dates were KNOWN. They ALWAYS said that the scopes were "Expected" for a June/July delivery date, not guaranteed.

Mike</div></div>

Sure! Why not? I don't see what the problem is with giving an update,... key word: <span style="font-weight: bold">DATE</span>,... even a <span style="font-weight: bold">VERY </span>conservative one. Sure, I want my scope today but that's not what I'm <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">ranting</span> </span>about! As I mentioned, I understand that things happen, suppliers screw up, things get lost in shipping, processes we thought we could do in one hour actually take three,...you know, STUFF! I'm a salesman in the dental industry and sell literally thousands of different products from hundreds of different vendors and they all,... <span style="font-weight: bold">ALL </span>of them, give definitive release dates for their up-coming products - this is not a new concept. If the product's a hit and blows out the doors, the vendors feel obliged to give fairly accurate estimates as to when we can expect them,... who'd-a-thunk!
shocked.gif


I think Vortex has been very, even overly, apologetic about the Teaser June/July Release Snafu of a product they <span style="font-weight: bold">HAD</span> to know was receiving a lot of buzz and banter throughout the shooting community and with the amount of pre-orders received from their vendors they also <span style="font-weight: bold">HAD </span>to know they had <span style="font-weight: bold">NO WAY</span> of fulfilling them all. In this case, a simple statement such as, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Wow! we didn't count on this big of a response to our new product. We're very excited about its' release and we're glad you are to. However, we only figured on mfg. 'X' number of units this first quarter for the initial release of the product, which are already accounted for by our dealers. We're in the works of making 'X' more to be released on 'X' date and will update you during the process. Your dealer will be able to give you more specifics based the quantities they're currently stocking or have on order. Thanks for your support."</span></span>... done!

I don't see how <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"we're not going to give an ETA anymore"</span></span> can be construed as '<span style="font-weight: bold">good</span>' customer service by you guys? Yeah, I appreciate the apologies, but enough is enough with the <span style="font-weight: bold">"We're really sorry"</span>. Just give us <span style="font-weight: bold">something </span>to go by.
 
#35
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

Maybe they (Vortex) will be better at getting shooters what they want in a scope in the long run. If they were paying for marketing depts and PR consultants the scopes would be more expensive.
What you have is a smaller company that is basically doing what the rest of the American scope makers have not done, actually trying to get us what we want.
They have given updates and if you don't like what you've heard, its your money, get something else and quit being a tantrum throwing baby.
 
#36
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe they (Vortex) will be better at getting shooters what they want in a scope in the long run. If they were paying for marketing depts and PR consultants the scopes would be more expensive.
What you have is a smaller company that is basically doing what the rest of the American scope makers have not done, actually trying to get us what we want.
They have given updates and if you don't like what you've heard, its your money, get something else and quit being a tantrum throwing baby. </div></div>

Uhg! what a bunch of,... whatever,... Fine, you guys can all <span style="font-weight: bold">bravely </span>jump on the <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">'quit whining</span></span>' bandwagon,... impress your buddies here,... I couldn't care less.

Giving us what we want...? How about a release date? That's what I want. In any case, I'll just keep it up - fuels the fire!
smile.gif


I still want to hear someone tell me why <span style="font-weight: bold">"we aren't going to be giving anymore release dates"</span> is considered good customer service policy over tangible updates.
 
#37
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

Blurry,

I'm not entirely in disagreement with you. I SEE your point, but I however do not feel the same. I believe your comparison of the dental accessory industry compared to this is completely unfair. That's not exactly a hobby business...

I 'assume' that others on here feel the same as I do, in that Vortex has an OUTSTANDING reputation for customer service, they've tried to give a lot of us lower-budget guys what WE want, and for that I'm still confident in their products and business. They haven't been around as long as the other guys, this PST release will never be lived down however they WILL learn from it, and if you read on the new "Vortex updated" thread in this section they have said that they 'intend' to have them to us by the end of the year. THERE is your ETA, don't like it? Get ur money back and buy a different scope.

Mike
 
#39
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

Having worked for a manufacturer in the firearms industry I can uderstand exactly why they aren't going to give a date if they don;t have one-it makes things worse.
I don't agree with the level of hype that brewed up over the PST FFP's, adn I'm sorry, maybe you're one of the people that listened tot he parroting and now have oyu rpanties in a wad.

Actually, your entire time here you have been whining about vendors (esp optics one), and started your time here on the 'hide by flagrantly going around the rules when you posted your whining about Leupold and put in that rant a solicitation for a sale:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blurry6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I have a practically new 8.5-25x50mm scope with the 1/4-MOA / Illuminated MilDot that I've been sitting on for some time and really haven't used, so I thought I'd sell it, but then I thought, "Hey,... this is actually a really good scope, but it just needs 0.1-MilRAD adjustments to be great!" So I e-mail Leupold asking "How much to convert this into 0.1 MilRAD's?" and they reply, "Sorry, we're not set up to do that,..." Huh?! Why not?! Then I dig into their website and see that they don't have ANY of the above mentioned options available,... What are your thoughts?

Ryan
[email protected]

Anyone want a great optic for $1,200.00 sent? Original box/manual/lens-covers,...etc. BARELY used,... Let me know. </div></div>


I started this thread with a question seeking information, adn Scott from Vortex answered that question in a satisfactory manner, hopefully for the betterment of everyone (but your) understanding of what's going on.

I'm not here to impress anybody, yet you are committed to "adding fuel to the fire". I'm on no f*cking bandwagon, please take your obvious problems with Vortex to your own thread.

Please troll elsewhere.
 
#40
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

Blurry, you are complaining because YOU pre-ordered a product and didn't get it when YOU thought YOU should get it. Nobody made you pay the money YOU DID THAT ON YOUR OWN FREE WILL, so why don't you SHUT THE FUCK UP! Hell I can give a date, they will be ready when they are ready not a day earlier, not a day later. You would probably be on here raising cane about the turrets if you had got one or the box had a crinkle or some other bs. I am so sick of this me me me, now now now generation.
 
#41
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

As I stated earlier I am really happy with this scope and think it has filled a huge gap in the scope market. After having shot it for awhile now, it fills my needs perfectly and came in right in my budget, I hope vortex does great with these scopes, they are a great bang for the buck!
 
#42
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blurry6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Benjamin_Breeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You're posting this in a thread where the actual company rep gave an update just up the page from your rantings?

You (and I) pre-ordered a new item. We took the chance that things could go awry, it comes with the territory. </div></div>

Yeah, I know I'm ranting, but it makes me feel better
smile.gif
I also appreciate that this is a NEW product and it comes with the territory, but given that we've already received an ETA that's come and gone, I think it's within my(our) right as pre-paid customers to apply some pressure for an accurate update,... just sayin'
laugh.gif
</div></div>You obviously haven't got a clue about manufacturing, or more to the point, what goes into making a good scope or running a business.
Your "right" as a pre-paid customer? That's hilarious. Does the rest of your world rotate around only you?
You have the "right" to ask for your money back if you're not satisfied with the deal, but being "pre paid" doesn't give you the right to dictate or even suggest to the company what their policy should be. Seems you'd rather hear a lie, than to understand that if a company doesn't <span style="font-style: italic">know</span> when they can release a product due to unforeseen changes...some probably out of their control, then they sure can't give a release date no matter how badly they'd like to. Believe me, right now they're not making a dime on probably $hundreds of thousands invested in this venture. Customer relations aside, no one wants to get these products on the shelf and selling any more than Vortex and their investors. Interest is accruing and cutting into the profit margin, and no one in business can survive very long at that rate of return. Vortex has stepped up without excuses, admitted their initial mistake, and understandably isn;t going to make the same mistake again. In the face of critics like you, they're commitment to the best quality product they can produce, as promised, is their priority, not your agenda. You just can't ask any more from a new company, developing a new product. All Vortex is asking for is some paitence and understanding.

If I was your vendor, I'd give you your money back and tell you to take a hike...you're unreasonable and impatient, and the kind of customer that usually turns into more of a PITA than what little profit you tendered.
JMO FWIW
 
#43
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blurry,

I'm not entirely in disagreement with you. I SEE your point, but I however do not feel the same. I believe your comparison of the dental accessory industry compared to this is completely unfair. That's not exactly a hobby business...

I 'assume' that others on here feel the same as I do, in that Vortex has an OUTSTANDING reputation for customer service, they've tried to give a lot of us lower-budget guys what WE want, and for that I'm still confident in their products and business. They haven't been around as long as the other guys, this PST release will never be lived down however they WILL learn from it, and if you read on the new "Vortex updated" thread in this section they have said that they 'intend' to have them to us by the end of the year. THERE is your ETA, don't like it? Get ur money back and buy a different scope.

Mike </div></div>There have been plenty of scrubbed release dates on new products before this one. It's the nature of precision manufacturing, which is exactly what optics manufacturing is. Very tight tolerances, critical material standards, finishes, fit, function, etc. I think anyone who's been around manufacturing of any type for long enough knows not to take release dates on new products too seriously. I think through Vortex's commitment to quality, when this product hits the market and is as successful as everyone is anticipating, this will all be a distant memory.
 
#44
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

Well I for one do not own any Vortex products so I can't say anything about their customer service. I do see them post from them from time to time and because of that and some reviews of their products I pre-ordered two Viper PST's in May. I also am of the the mindset that blurry, as a consumer, has the right to be critical of the service he feels he is receiving and the answer,after waiting months, should not be as simple as go somewhere else. Though I am still on the Vortex bandwagon I have to admit that the way many on these threads defend and jump on consumers critical of Vortex at times seem ridiculous to me. Once more Blurry and anyone who has invested both time and money into these scopes has a right to request information if they feel they are in the dark and to me the answer is not as simple as find another scope.
 
#45
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cuffm4615</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I for one do not own any Vortex products so I can't say anything about their customer service. I do see them post from them from time to time and because of that and some reviews of their products I pre-ordered two Viper PST's in May. I also am of the the mindset that blurry, as a consumer, has the right to be critical of the service he feels he is receiving and the answer,after waiting months, should not be as simple as go somewhere else. Though I am still on the Vortex bandwagon I have to admit that the way many on these threads defend and jump on consumers critical of Vortex at times seem ridiculous to me. Once more Blurry and anyone who has invested both time and money into these scopes has a right to request information if they feel they are in the dark and to me the answer is not as simple as find another scope. </div></div>And what if the HONEST answer from the manufacturer is, "we've had some problems, we're doing the best to fix them, but at this time, we're not sure how long it's going to take"...would you rather hear a lie? Would you rather they just bypass fixing the problem to meet a ficticious deadline?
What would you do if you were in Vortex's shoes?
 
#47
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blurry,

I'm not entirely in disagreement with you. I SEE your point, but I however do not feel the same. I believe your comparison of the dental accessory industry compared to this is completely unfair. That's not exactly a hobby business...

I 'assume' that others on here feel the same as I do, in that Vortex has an OUTSTANDING reputation for customer service, they've tried to give a lot of us lower-budget guys what WE want, and for that I'm still confident in their products and business. They haven't been around as long as the other guys, this PST release will never be lived down however they WILL learn from it, and if you read on the new "Vortex updated" thread in this section they have said that they 'intend' to have them to us by the end of the year. THERE is your ETA, don't like it? Get ur money back and buy a different scope.

Mike </div></div>

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the post. I absolutely agree with your sentiment on who Vortex, the company, is and it's why I paid for one of their scopes. I have absolutely nothing against Vortex or their products. I just think the handling of this issue with the endless back-and-forth, post-and-repost on '<span style="font-weight: bold">when</span>' we might see them has been grueling. End of the year? <span style="font-weight: bold">THAT </span>is an ETA I can live with. I didn't know of their <span style="font-weight: bold">'end of the year'</span> projection for the scope and a search of this forum will show how many times this question has been asked. This should be a sticky with ONE uneditible post entitled <span style="font-weight: bold">VORTEX PST DELIVERY DATES</span>,... it would avoid a lot of confusion. At least then, anything delivered before that would be a bonus!

I still intend to get the <span style="font-weight: bold">4-16x50 FFP Mil/Mil </span>I have on order, but with it being out 'til the end of the year, I'll probably put the funds toward that <span style="font-weight: bold">2.0 AICS LA stock </span>I've had my eye on in the interum. By December, I should have enough play money to get the scope,... A Christmas Gift to myself
laugh.gif
Again, thanks for the update,... from now on I'll be telling my buddies at the range that the Vortex PST is looking like the end of year, and to plan accordingly... Thanks again.
 
#48
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelcomp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cuffm4615</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I for one do not own any Vortex products so I can't say anything about their customer service. I do see them post from them from time to time and because of that and some reviews of their products I pre-ordered two Viper PST's in May. I also am of the the mindset that blurry, as a consumer, has the right to be critical of the service he feels he is receiving and the answer,after waiting months, should not be as simple as go somewhere else. Though I am still on the Vortex bandwagon I have to admit that the way many on these threads defend and jump on consumers critical of Vortex at times seem ridiculous to me. Once more Blurry and anyone who has invested both time and money into these scopes has a right to request information if they feel they are in the dark and to me the answer is not as simple as find another scope. </div></div>And what if the HONEST answer from the manufacturer is, "we've had some problems, we're doing the best to fix them, but at this time, we're not sure how long it's going to take"...would you rather hear a lie? Would you rather they just bypass fixing the problem to meet a ficticious deadline?
What would you do if you were in Vortex's shoes? </div></div>

Actually steelcomp, I've got a pretty good handle on product development, and childish, low-brow insults withstanding, I respect your defense of the difficulties involved in manufacturing something as intricate as a precision optic,... especially when outside vendors come into play. However, my issue has never been the 'manufacture' of the Vortex products -I fully appreciate their commitment to quality and only delivering the best they possibly can at a decent price-point. What I've been <span style="font-weight: bold">ranting </span>about is their unwillingness to come clean and divulge at least an 'inkling' of what we might be able to expect. They ship tomorrow? GREAT! They won't ship to early 2011? That stinks, but I'll be ready.

What should be OBVIOUS to those at Vortex is that they have a very loyal following who intend to purchase their products, delivery dates aside,... So, why not come clean and simply say <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">"We're having trouble getting lenses/reticules/one particular size of gear for the adjustments (etc.) from a supplier,..."</span></span> or, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"We found a certain aspect of the scope needed a complete redesign and we will need to retool in order to produce them setting delivery back 'til 'X' day, but we'll keep you guys in the loop."</span> </span> THAT would be a refreshing change from the constant rumor mill they've allowed to endure.

I respect Vortex and their process, but I can't say I respect their handling of this issue at all,... WAY too many posts have come and gone on this issue and it should warrant a STICKY: OFFICIAL VORTEX PST DELIVERY DATES thread administered by Vortex. your opinion my vary.
 
#49
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What should be OBVIOUS to those at Vortex is that they have a very loyal following who intend to purchase their products, delivery dates aside,... <span style="color: #3366FF">So, why not come clean and simply say <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">"We're having trouble getting lenses/reticules/one particular size of gear for the adjustments (etc.) from a supplier,..."</span></span> or, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"We found a certain aspect of the scope needed a complete redesign and we will need to retool in order to produce them setting delivery back 'til 'X' day, but we'll keep you guys in the loop."</span> </span> THAT would be a refreshing change from the constant rumor mill they've allowed to endure. </span>I respect Vortex and their process, but I can't say I respect their handling of this issue at all,... WAY too many posts have come and gone on this issue and it should warrant a STICKY: OFFICIAL VORTEX PST DELIVERY DATES thread administered by Vortex. your opinion my vary. </div></div>

From Scott@Vortex:
I can assure you that we did not send any scopes out as "beta testers". Yes, admittedly we made a few mistakes along this road, but hey hindsight is 20/20. We honestly felt like they would be ready sometime around June, so that was our best estimation and really was just that, an estimation and we tried our best to be very clear about that. If we could go back in time would we do things a little different, absolutely. Unfortunately we can not so we are doing what we feel is best to bring our customers a scope that they will be happy with. For those of you that dont already know we have redesigned the turret(and tested it) to have more resistance while still having a nice crisp tactile feel. It will take a little while to get the scopes done with the new turret internals(machining,assembly,more testing,etc...).
We are not giving out any estimations on delivery times this time around but, I can promise you that we are sparing no expense to get these done correctly and as quickly as possible. Another thing I can promise you is that we want these scopes on the market and in your hands just a bad as anyone. We are sorry it is taking so long, but we are confident that it will be worth the wait.

Sincerely
Scott

This statement seems to pretty much say it all, with the exception of the date you are looking for. If Vortex doesn't want to give an ETA, it is because at this time, they honestly do not know, and do not want to continue feeding the "rumor mill". I am sure that when they are able to give an accurate "estimate" for a release, they will certainly do so.

I think having a Sticky Thread for "PST Updates" only is a great idea, and I suggested this in another thread back before the "pre-release". I also agree there has been a lot of hype over these scopes, but I don't think it has come from Vortex. I'm not sure where you pre ordered, but I know of at least one well known optics dealer (not a Hide sponsor) that has intentionally misled customers as to when the PST's would be available, in order to boost "pre-sales". There may be others that are guilty of this, and it seems like this mis-information, whether it be direct or second hand, has found it's way into some threads and contributed to everyone's disappointment.
Also,from my experience in retail, when you "pre-pay" for an item, you are giving your money to a dealer, not to the manufacturer. It's not like Vortex is sitting around with a pile of our money saying "Lets make them wait!" Usually the manufacturerer does not get paid until they have a product to ship.
All that being said, let's just respect the fact that Vortex doesn't want to give us a new ETA until they know for a fact that they can meet it, and lets look forward to the next update from Scott and trust that they will get the scopes to us as soon as they possibly can.
All the whining and complaining in the world isn't going to get them here any faster.
 
#50
Re: How many PST FFP's hit the market

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Semour Gunz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What should be OBVIOUS to those at Vortex is that they have a very loyal following who intend to purchase their products, delivery dates aside,... <span style="color: #3366FF">So, why not come clean and simply say <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">"We're having trouble getting lenses/reticules/one particular size of gear for the adjustments (etc.) from a supplier,..."</span></span> or, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"We found a certain aspect of the scope needed a complete redesign and we will need to retool in order to produce them setting delivery back 'til 'X' day, but we'll keep you guys in the loop."</span> </span> THAT would be a refreshing change from the constant rumor mill they've allowed to endure. </span>I respect Vortex and their process, but I can't say I respect their handling of this issue at all,... WAY too many posts have come and gone on this issue and it should warrant a STICKY: OFFICIAL VORTEX PST DELIVERY DATES thread administered by Vortex. your opinion my vary. </div></div>

From Scott@Vortex:
I can assure you that we did not send any scopes out as "beta testers". Yes, admittedly we made a few mistakes along this road, but hey hindsight is 20/20. We honestly felt like they would be ready sometime around June, so that was our best estimation and really was just that, an estimation and we tried our best to be very clear about that. If we could go back in time would we do things a little different, absolutely. Unfortunately we can not so we are doing what we feel is best to bring our customers a scope that they will be happy with. For those of you that dont already know we have redesigned the turret(and tested it) to have more resistance while still having a nice crisp tactile feel. It will take a little while to get the scopes done with the new turret internals(machining,assembly,more testing,etc...).
We are not giving out any estimations on delivery times this time around but, I can promise you that we are sparing no expense to get these done correctly and as quickly as possible. Another thing I can promise you is that we want these scopes on the market and in your hands just a bad as anyone. We are sorry it is taking so long, but we are confident that it will be worth the wait.

Sincerely
Scott

This statement seems to pretty much say it all, with the exception of the date you are looking for. If Vortex doesn't want to give an ETA, it is because at this time, they honestly do not know, and do not want to continue feeding the "rumor mill". I am sure that when they are able to give an accurate "estimate" for a release, they will certainly do so.

I think having a Sticky Thread for "PST Updates" only is a great idea, and I suggested this in another thread back before the "pre-release". I also agree there has been a lot of hype over these scopes, but I don't think it has come from Vortex. I'm not sure where you pre ordered, but I know of at least one well known optics dealer (not a Hide sponsor) that has intentionally misled customers as to when the PST's would be available, in order to boost "pre-sales". There may be others that are guilty of this, and it seems like this mis-information, whether it be direct or second hand, has found it's way into some threads and contributed to everyone's disappointment.
Also,from my experience in retail, when you "pre-pay" for an item, you are giving your money to a dealer, not to the manufacturer. It's not like Vortex is sitting around with a pile of our money saying "Lets make them wait!" Usually the manufacturerer does not get paid until they have a product to ship.
All that being said, let's just respect the fact that Vortex doesn't want to give us a new ETA until they know for a fact that they can meet it, and lets look forward to the next update from Scott and trust that they will get the scopes to us as soon as they possibly can.
All the whining and complaining in the world isn't going to get them here any faster. </div></div>

Yeah, I've always understood that the mfg isn't sitting in their chalet rolling around naked through our money,... Again, in all my posting (ranting) the issue of <span style="font-weight: bold">'getting them faster' </span>was never in question.
 
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