how often do you anneal

predatornut

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I have some brass (300wm) that is on its 3rd loading and have been thinking about trying my hand at annealing before I start working up a new load. I've read a couple articles on the subject but was wanting to get some firsthand advice. Any help would be great. Thanks guys!
 

vman

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Re: how often do you anneal

Do you have some practice brass on hand that you can throw away if needed?

The easiest way to learn would be to get some Tempilaq to use on the inside of the necks. Eventually when you get a feel for it you wont even need to use it.

I like to start with clean cases. I use a stainless tumbler so they come out spotless.

To be honest I know guys who dont anneal and have 15+ so far on their Lapua brass. If you do minimal sizing you should be excellent brass life regardless.

If you were to anneal after every 3 to 4 firings, and did the job properly, you neck tensions would be more consistent.
 

RyeDaddy

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Re: how often do you anneal

I anneal after 4 firings. I've never gotten to the point where I felt a difference in the brass that told me I needed to anneal, just picked that number of firings based on things I had read on the net. Seems to be working fine for me.
 

Graham

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Re: how often do you anneal

When it's time to anneal I throw them out and get new brass.
 

jwoolf

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Re: how often do you anneal

I anneal after the 2nd firing on my 300wm brass. If you wait too long to anneal there are lots of things that change. For example, your neck tension will be very different if you wait too long and, you'll find that your sizing operation is very different... especially if you neck size separately. ( which I do )

I'm sure I could get three firings without worry of too much changing but, as was stated earlier, a lot depends on how hard you're working your brass... how hot it is, how much you're setting back the shoulder etc.

I have wonderful brass life ... only bump the shoulder ( no more than .002 and sometimes only .001 while FL sizing) I also bump the case above the belt with the innovative technologies collet die and, do the necks with a collet die also.

It's time consuming but, if all is well, I'm not moving the brass much at all. I really hate turning necks and deburring flash holes so, the longer I can use my brass, the happier I am.
 

GreatGonzo

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Re: how often do you anneal

I anneal after every firing on anything that I don't use a bushing die for. My brass gets moved around a lot with full length sizing and then expander ball running through. I cycle about 300 pieces of brass and never have more than 200 loaded at any one time, so it is easier for me to anneal every time and keep neck tension the same.

Long action cartridges are really easy. Very difficult to run the heat all the way down to the case head.
 

jmorris

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Re: how often do you anneal

I anneal after everyone but I didn't before I built a machine that would anneal every case exactly the same with very little input of my time.



DSC01810.jpg




 

Bub

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Re: how often do you anneal

I love that design of the annealing machine. I saw a couple videos on you tube about them. I believe I am gonna try to make one my self.
 

MitchAlsup

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Re: how often do you anneal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To be honest I know guys who dont anneal and have 15+ so far on their Lapua brass. If you do minimal sizing you should be excellent brass life regardless.</div></div>

I have a set (50) WIN cases that are in the low 30 reload cycles and have never been annealed. I use Bushing dies in two steps 0.3445 -> 0.338-> 0.332. In these 30 reload cycles I have lost 2 cases (2 cycles ago) for body cracks and 2 for incipient case head, the rest are still in the loop. Shoulders pushed back only after measurement indicates need.

Have not lost a primer pocket with 155 Scenars, CCI primers, 47.8gr Varget, 2.943 OAL.
 

ridge rider

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Re: how often do you anneal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
vman said:
To be honest I know guys who dont anneal and have 15+ so far on their Lapua brass. If you do minimal sizing you should be excellent brass life regardless.</div></div>

I note what you are saying however regardless of how many reloads you can get without annealing there is another issue that I believe is more important and one that is overlooked when the topic of annealing comes up.
For long range shooting accuracy consistent and even neck tension is more important and this is where annealing comes into its own.
I have some very accurate rifles and have personally experienced high E.S's after my third or fourth shots and things just got worse in the accuracy department as a result of no annealing.
However once I neck annealed these cases my E.S. spread came back down into single to low double digits which resulted in excellent accuracy returning once again.
I now neck anneal after each second firing.
 

shumate

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Re: how often do you anneal

Well, since all the experts are here. I will be forming some 25-06 into 6mm-06 AI 40 degree shoulder. I got some already necked down, and fire formed (cream-of-wheat method). With this much neck manipulation, would it be the wise thing to anneal. Because I was planning on it. I just would like to get you guys who have been around the block with this.

Thanks.
 

jmorris

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Re: how often do you anneal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love that design of the annealing machine. I saw a couple videos on you tube about them. I believe I am gonna try to make one my self.
</div></div>

It's not hard once you have the blade. I have them for $60 shipped with scale trace drawings of the top plate, torch arms and drive wheel.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1698493&page=1
 

Jeffvn

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Re: how often do you anneal

I anneal every other firing on almost all of my brass (6x47Lapua, 7WSM, 338Lm, 338LM Improved). I never anneal or trim my .45ACP brass, just saying.
smile.gif


If you plan on annealing the 6-06 AI anyway, you loose nothing by doing it after you fire form the brass. Plus you get the benefit of using annealed brass when doing the load development.

Jeffvn
 

DHDeal

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Re: how often do you anneal

After each firing as I have a Benchsource machine and like to use it!

In 308, Hornady and Lapua. In 30-06, Winchester. In 6.5 Grendel, Lapua (tricky little bastard there with the short case).

To me, it is one of those things that "it can't hurt", so I do it. Again, I use an annealing machine that I have all of my settings figured out so they come out the same each time.
 

Ishallbie O'Cullkillin

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Re: how often do you anneal

I have 3000 once fired pieces of sized, trimmed .308 NATO brass, LC, RA, WRA & TW headstamps. Some of this brass is 48 years old, and I want to know if I should anneal & resize, or should I just load, fire & anneal after the second firing? If there are any accuracy benefits, or will make the brass last longer, i'm interested in doing it now. Any input will be helpful.
 

Leaddog

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Re: how often do you anneal

LC is quite hard brass. Anneal and resize would be my choice if I was going to keep this brass.

If accuracy is your goal and you are shooting a bolt gun, sell this brass and buy new Lapua or Winchester brass.
 

Iamironman

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Re: how often do you anneal

The only time I have ever annealed 223 is when I'm making 7TCU out of it. I have yet to anneal any 308, but I also do not shoot that in any competition. I can see the argument to anneal every so many rounds if you are in competition and you are taking neck tension in to consideration. Unless you have invested in some expensive brass, or hard to come by brass and you want it to last (not that I'm saying it wont if you don't anneal) I don't see the point to it.
 

Ishallbie O'Cullkillin

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Re: how often do you anneal

I have a large batch of Winchester brass and a larger batch of Federal brass in .308. I am keeping the L.C. so I guess I will anneal and re-size again. Once a guy cleans, sizes, trims & gets rid of the primer crimp, it's really hard to part with that brass. I just want to get as much life out of it as I can, and since it's so old, I will anneal after only one firing.
 

X-fan

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Re: how often do you anneal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DHD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After each firing as I have a Benchsource machine and like to use it!

In 308, Hornady and Lapua. In 30-06, Winchester. In 6.5 Grendel, Lapua (tricky little bastard there with the short case).

To me, it is one of those things that "it can't hurt", so I do it. Again, I use an annealing machine that I have all of my settings figured out so they come out the same each time. </div></div>
Roger that!
I love that little machine.
While stating the obvious, I seem to be getting less fliers as compared to when I used to wait for the necks to start splitting....Then hilbilly annealing in a dark room with a wet cookie tray.
blush.gif


Every bullet feels the same when you seat it ...Must be better right?

Peace
 

EWP

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Re: how often do you anneal

I like the Bench Source much better, it's all billet aluminum vs sheet metal and is really a work of art compared to the Giraud.

Also the cases standing up keep the base of the case cooler than laying sideways would and the table top acts as a heat sink to keep them even cooler.

For large cases the Bench Source also has the advantage of two torches so the neck & shoulder can be heated fast enough to keep the heat from radiating towards the base.
 

rrflyer

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Re: how often do you anneal

It's hard for me to believe people are getting 20+ firings from brass. When I started I used new lapua brass and they would start separating after 6 or 7 firings.

I full length size back to min everytime though.....
 

EWP

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Re: how often do you anneal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's hard for me to believe people are getting 20+ firings from brass. When I started I used new lapua brass and they would start separating after 6 or 7 firings.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I full length size back to min everytime though</span>..... </div></div>

That's why.

I just retired a batch of 50 6.8 SPC cases that were over 2 years old and ~25 reloads on them. I never did have a split neck or head separation, I did however finally have one split straight down the side.

SAM_0237.jpg
 

Ishallbie O'Cullkillin

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Re: how often do you anneal

I wont even consider an annealing machine that requires you to stand there and feed it. I might as well just spend the cash on components, and use the Hornady kit.
 

Erik Cortina

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Re: how often do you anneal

Every time.

A little different topic, but F/L sizing does not kill brass life, F/L sizing improperly kills brass life.
 

shoot4fun

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    Re: how often do you anneal

    I tried the Hornady kit but did not like it. I've just purchased the Bench Source and it is a Cadillac.
    I asked this question to the guy who owns Bench-Source and his answer matches ronas.
    The reasoning is that if he loads 250 rounds and shoots 200 in a match then he needs all his brass the same before loading them again, hence the annealing.
     

    shoot4fun

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    Re: how often do you anneal

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MattK287</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wont even consider an annealing machine that requires you to stand there and feed it. I might as well just spend the cash on components, and use the Hornady kit. </div></div>

    The Bench-Source is not a chore at all.
     

    Ishallbie O'Cullkillin

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    Re: how often do you anneal

    To me, the obvious choice is the machine that allows you to load it and walk away, freeing you up to do something else while the machine does what you paid for it to do. I process brass in batches of thousands, and if I gotta stand there and babysit, I might as well be saving cash. I'm sure the Bench-Source is a great product, just not for me.
     

    jrob300

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    Re: how often do you anneal

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stac338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    vman said:
    To be honest I know guys who dont anneal and have 15+ so far on their Lapua brass. If you do minimal sizing you should be excellent brass life regardless.</div></div>

    I note what you are saying however regardless of how many reloads you can get without annealing there is another issue that I believe is more important and one that is overlooked when the topic of annealing comes up.
    For long range shooting accuracy consistent and even neck tension is more important and this is where annealing comes into its own.
    I have some very accurate rifles and have personally experienced high E.S's after my third or fourth shots and things just got worse in the accuracy department as a result of no annealing.
    However once I neck annealed these cases my E.S. spread came back down into single to low double digits which resulted in excellent accuracy returning once again.
    I now neck anneal after each second firing. </div></div>

    This guy understands... it's not just about brass life.

    I anneal every firing now. I learned this the hard way at a 1000 yd. shoot where I had inadvertently mixed just annealed brass with brass that had about 4-5 firings on it. The POI difference between the two was significant at 1000 yds. I now can tell an underannealed piece of brass just from seating feel. My ES/SD have settled into very consistent single digits. I always used to wonder why those numbers used to jump around. No more.

    John
     

    95LTZ

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    Re: how often do you anneal

    I have had one of the Ken Light annealers for years & anneal after each firing. I can definitely tell annealed from not annealed when seating bullets.