How to determine if a powder is suitable for a particular caliber?

libertyman777

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I've got 16# of an AA data powder, AA2200. There is data available for .223, 30-30 win (up to 170 grains) and .308 win up to 150 grains. Could this powder be considered viable for 6.5 CM?

If so, how does one go about safely working up a load?
 
M

milo 2.0

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I've got 16# of an AA data powder, AA2200. There is data available for .223, 30-30 win (up to 170 grains) and .308 win up to 150 grains. Could this powder be considered viable for 6.5 CM?

If so, how does one go about safely working up a load?

If I were you, I would re-visit their data page, the numbers you're throwing out here are questionable.

Load Data « Accurate Powders

I did a quick check and didn't find 2200 listed for 30-30, or .308.
 

fnbrowning

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Look at Accurate Powder Company's Burn Rate Chart. Burn Rates « Accurate Powders

2200 appears to be roughly equal to RE-7; slightly slower than IMR - 4198 and slightly faster than H - 322.
I would look at the reloading values for the nearly equal powder and the other two, and start with a very consertative measure; shoot some test loads, and chronograph for velocity.
 

ksthomas

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Appears to be too fast for this application. Still shows a very poor load density when you'd be running into pressure issues when you try this combo out on QuickLoad. Great tool for stuff like this.
 

Queequeg

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Look up loads from the bullet and reloading equipment manufacturers manuals as well as some other manuals.

Looks like 2200 is not recommended for a case as large as the 6.5 Cm. It is not widely listed in any of the burn rate charts I checked and according to Accurate, 2200 is;

Our popular Accurate 2200 has been reintroduced to fill the increasing demand for a high performance small caliber propellant.17, 19 and 20 caliber shooters will appreciate the excellent performance of 2200 with a wide range of bullets. Small granule size allows excellent metering and flow through small neck cases. 2200 is a double-base, spherical propellant that also works extremely well in 222 and 223 cartridges with light bullets from 36 to 45 grain. Made in the USA.

Lyman and Lee manuals are often very exhaustive and RL McPhereson's also has some unique loads but my edition predates both the 6.5 CM and AA2200.
 

Queequeg

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Look up loads from the bullet and reloading equipment manufacturers manuals as well as some other manuals.

Looks like 2200 is not recommended for a case as large as the 6.5 Cm. It is not widely listed in any of the burn rate charts I checked and according to Accurate, 2200 is;

Our popular Accurate 2200 has been reintroduced to fill the increasing demand for a high performance small caliber propellant.17, 19 and 20 caliber shooters will appreciate the excellent performance of 2200 with a wide range of bullets. Small granule size allows excellent metering and flow through small neck cases. 2200 is a double-base, spherical propellant that also works extremely well in 222 and 223 cartridges with light bullets from 36 to 45 grain. Made in the USA.

Lyman and Lee manuals are often very exhaustive and RL McPhereson's also has some unique loads but my edition predates both the 6.5 CM and AA2200.
 

FLIGHT762

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Here's the link that I had>

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/DP2200.pdf

I know it's a fast powder but based on the above linked data, it seems that there is some viability with larger cases. This is a Data Powder.

Besides the small cases like .218 Bee and .223 there are also loads for:

.458 win, .375 win, 7.62x 39 and .308. Seems fairly versatile.

Yes, those calibers can use 2200 data powder because those calibers normally use the faster to medium burning powders. Calibers like the 243 Win. ,.260 Rem.,and 6.5 CM, need a slower burning powder to get the highest velocity with the heavier bullets. You may be able to use 2200 Data with bullet weights in the 90-100 grain area with the 6.5 CM. If you try to use 120-140 grain bullets, you'll get to maximum pressure long before you get a suitable velocity.

Even in 308. Win., the bullet weights for 2200 Data powder will be in the 150 grain or less category.
 

ksthomas

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I mentioned this in another thread about a given powder's suitability, but it bears repeating. Case size, per se, isn't what matters. It's Expansion Ratio that is the concern here. That is, the ratio of the volume of powder chamber to that powder chamber and bore combined. This is what determines which powders are too fast, too slow, or just what you're looking for. That, combined with the bullet weight you've chose allows you to isolate powder choices down to just a handful, eliminating a great many that wouldn't be worth the effort to experiment with. It's a good tool, and one that doesn't get used enough these days.
 

libertyman777

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I mentioned this in another thread about a given powder's suitability, but it bears repeating. Case size, per se, isn't what matters. It's Expansion Ratio that is the concern here. That is, the ratio of the volume of powder chamber to that powder chamber and bore combined. This is what determines which powders are too fast, too slow, or just what you're looking for. That, combined with the bullet weight you've chose allows you to isolate powder choices down to just a handful, eliminating a great many that wouldn't be worth the effort to experiment with. It's a good tool, and one that doesn't get used enough these days.

Okay. I'm not going to try anything dangerous. Based on that burn chart listed above, it's suitable for other calibers I load for including .300 BLK.

So my next question is, how far can one safely stray away from a proven powder. I see that in the AA load data that 2700 and 4064 are suitable. IMR 4064 is pretty far removed on the faster side of H4350. So would every powder listed on the burn chart between IMR 4064 and and H4350 be okay to consider?

I just found some additional data.

https://www.loaddata.com/members/se...iberid=43&header=6.5mm Caliber Reloading Data

Looks like I have more powders to choose from than I realized.
 

turbo54

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libertyman777 said:
So my next question is, how far can one safely stray away from a proven powder. I see that in the AA load data that 2700 and 4064 are suitable. IMR 4064 is pretty far removed on the faster side of H4350. So would every powder listed on the burn chart between IMR 4064 and and H4350 be okay to consider?

Yes.

No.

Sort of.

This is something you'll learn from experience and a lot of reading.

For example:

H1000, Reloader 25 and Retumbo are all slow powders that are proven to work well with heavy bullets in 338 Lapua.

Can you load that cartridge with the faster H4831? Sure you can. You'll need to reduce the charge (as it compares to Retumbo) a LOT.

Can you load that cartridge with the still-faster H4350? Sure you can. You'll need to reduce the charge even more.

Can you load that cartridge with the still-faster Varget? Probably, though I don't kow about that one for sure.

At some point, you'll have reduced the charge weight (due to the faster pressure rise) so much you'll be in danger of powder deflagration (basically detonation), rather than a nice controlled burn.

Where is the deflagration point? It depends on powder and the cartridge you're loading. Many powders will indicate how far UNDER you can charge cartridges with that powder. In general, it isn't that much!

A famous example of a good powder to under-charge cases with is H4895. Hodgdon will tell you H4895 is safe down to 60% the chargeweight of their *maximum* published load.

An infamous example of a BAD powder to undercharge with is Unique, which is credited for blowing up many pistols due to undercharged cases.

Titegroup is another exmpale of a powder that is GOOD at low charge weights. For example, I use it to load "plinking" loads for my SW500. Whereas over 50gr of that powder could fit in the case, a max charge is actually ~17gr....and 17gr doesn't take up much space in there at all!

Keep reading. In the meantime, stick with proven published data.
 

libertyman777

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Yes.

No.

Sort of.

This is something you'll learn from experience and a lot of reading.

For example:

H1000, Reloader 25 and Retumbo are all slow powders that are proven to work well with heavy bullets in 338 Lapua.

Can you load that cartridge with the faster H4831? Sure you can. You'll need to reduce the charge (as it compares to Retumbo) a LOT.

Can you load that cartridge with the still-faster H4350? Sure you can. You'll need to reduce the charge even more.

Can you load that cartridge with the still-faster Varget? Probably, though I don't kow about that one for sure.

At some point, you'll have reduced the charge weight (due to the faster pressure rise) so much you'll be in danger of powder deflagration (basically detonation), rather than a nice controlled burn.

Where is the deflagration point? It depends on powder and the cartridge you're loading. Many powders will indicate how far UNDER you can charge cartridges with that powder. In general, it isn't that much!

A famous example of a good powder to under-charge cases with is H4895. Hodgdon will tell you H4895 is safe down to 60% the chargeweight of their *maximum* published load.

An infamous example of a BAD powder to undercharge with is Unique, which is credited for blowing up many pistols due to undercharged cases.

Titegroup is another exmpale of a powder that is GOOD at low charge weights. For example, I use it to load "plinking" loads for my SW500. Whereas over 50gr of that powder could fit in the case, a max charge is actually ~17gr....and 17gr doesn't take up much space in there at all!

Keep reading. In the meantime, stick with proven published data.


Thank you. I love the 6.5 CM but with Hornady publishing the load data on the box, I think that it's led to less experimentation compared to similar such as the 6.5x47 or .260 (I may be wrong but it sure seems that way).

I've dug around and have found 1/2 dozen or so suitable powders that I have in stock so that should suffice.

I would like to know if anyone has a good recipe for Vihtavuori powder and the 140 grain projectiles.

Paul
 

Chanonry

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Look at Accurate Powder Company's Burn Rate Chart. Burn Rates « Accurate Powders

2200 appears to be roughly equal to RE-7; slightly slower than IMR - 4198 and slightly faster than H - 322.
I would look at the reloading values for the nearly equal powder and the other two, and start with a very consertative measure; shoot some test loads, and chronograph for velocity.

don't be too conservative, that's just as bad
 

ksthomas

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Libertyman777,

Might want to try N550 with the 140s. Should be able to start off at around 40.0 grains, and work up to somewhere around 43.0. Start low, work up slowly and watch for the usual suspects where pressure signs are concerned. Should also be able to use N160, bt I suspect you'd rund out of room before you really got the velocities you're looking for.
 

libertyman777

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Libertyman777,

Might want to try N550 with the 140s. Should be able to start off at around 40.0 grains, and work up to somewhere around 43.0. Start low, work up slowly and watch for the usual suspects where pressure signs are concerned. Should also be able to use N160, bt I suspect you'd rund out of room before you really got the velocities you're looking for.

Thanks. I'll make a note. Powder is scarce around here.