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How to get started for real... Strength

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GasLight

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Minuteman
May 2, 2008
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Been reading in this forum off and on for a bit, and have read some good stuff. The thing that stuck out the most was COURAGEWOLF stating that to start you need to build strength and not try to become a body builder right off. Meaning, working up your core with Squats, Deadlifts, Bench and the like. What I am looking for is a routine for beginners. I am not a complete stranger to the gym, but I don't get there as often as I should, and when I do I have primarily spent my time doing a 'nautilus' style machine rotation, and then cardio. I am wondering where to start if I want to get serious with Strength training.

Where is a good resource to learn cleans, deadlift, and the like?

Is free weights the only way to go? Or can you achieve a desirable workout on the machines?

Thanks!

Dave
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Been reading in this forum off and on for a bit, and have read some good stuff. The thing that stuck out the most was COURAGEWOLF stating that to start you need to build strength and not try to become a body builder right off. Meaning, working up your core with Squats, Deadlifts, Bench and the like. What I am looking for is a routine for beginners. I am not a complete stranger to the gym, but I don't get there as often as I should, and when I do I have primarily spent my time doing a 'nautilus' style machine rotation, and then cardio. I am wondering where to start if I want to get serious with Strength training.

Where is a good resource to learn cleans, deadlift, and the like?

Is free weights the only way to go? Or can you achieve a desirable workout on the machines?

Thanks!

Dave </div></div>

Dave I'll call you a little later if you want to talk about it.

Starting strength, and stronglifts are pretty good beginners resources to checkout google those.

The LiamRosen link has a great setup for diet.

Try reading this thing.

http://4chanfit.wikia.com/wiki/Harshs_worksheet#Macronutrient_ratios

It's like cheating now with the available information out there
smile.gif
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

Great link, and a ton of great no BS information. I like the beginner programs, but still need to learn how to do the proper technique so I'm not wasting my time or begging for an injury.
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great link, and a ton of great no BS information. I like the beginner programs, but still need to learn how to do the proper technique so I'm not wasting my time or begging for an injury.

</div></div>

If you've got a phone with a vid camera you can just upload it with a private youtube channel and I can give you some advices when you send me the link.

There's good vids on the stronglifts site how to perform most of the basic workouts though.

It's a good idea to start with a really low weight and focus more on the form and build up slowly to something heavier.

That's what I did, and now I can get around 1.25x my bw with perfect form. I'll get 1.5 before long
laugh.gif


I need to talk to you about that rifle barrel anyways! Mudcat got it and he said a 6.5 creedmore round slipped in there really easily so he just wanted to make doubly certain that it was chambered for creedmore and not 6.5x47
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

Was just looking on stronglifts and will look at those vids when I get home. You can give me a call anytime for the barrel
smile.gif


I definately plan to start very low with weight and work on technique. I will try to do the vids to.

DD
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Was just looking on stronglifts and will look at those vids when I get home. You can give me a call anytime for the barrel
smile.gif


I definately plan to start very low with weight and work on technique. I will try to do the vids to.

DD </div></div>

Master the squat and deadlift. Powerclean you can worry about later. It's important, but it's a little more complex and easier to learn once you have a better feel for the bar. I had to go get a coach to teach me the right way, but now I feel really good about it.
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

starting with strength is a must...but why would you want to become a BB? i have been down that road, and its not a good one...a few others here have also been BB's...if in any way i can talk you out of it, i would be glad to...

just set a goal to be a well rounded athletic person...strenght+cardio+agility=win...

bench
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

Sorry, I wasn't saying I want to become a body builder, I want to be well rounded, stronger, and that kind of thing. I was saying that body builders are the ones who benefit the most from isolation exercises, which is what I had been doing more of (isolation exercises). When I read in here, it makes great sense to me that I need to build overall strength and quit worrying about individual muscle groups.

Hope that clears it up,
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

Try TRX. Created by a SEAL and it help alot. Thee TRX helped me gain strength for jiujitsu.
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fokai_zach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try TRX. Created by a SEAL and it help alot. Thee TRX helped me gain strength for jiujitsu. </div></div>

TRX is good for assistance work...but you can only do so much with body weight...

bench
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

DD,
CW has posted great information in other topics in the past...he provides great advice regarding your question as well, especially this:

"It's a good idea to start with a really low weight and focus more on the form and build up slowly to something heavier."

I think one of the hardest urges to overcome is the desire to push/pull/squat more weight prior to developing the proper mechanics. Also, I'll catch shrapnel for this but crossfit.com provides video examples of the lifts you're interested in. Good lifting!
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

Not all "body builders" stray from the basic compound movements.
The Squat , bench , deadlift and pullups are my base movements with slight varation to each to activate the muscles differantly. Some "body bulders" meet the stereo type of being big and slow , no agility and thats generaly because they were not this way to start with. If you were slow and clummsy to start with getting bigger will only make it worse , if you were athletic then packed on size and still trained to maintain to athletic abilities you will generaly be better at them with added muscle , except for having added cardio endurace.
the main differance between powerlifters and alot of body builders is simply diet
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not all "body builders" stray from the basic compound movements.
The Squat , bench , deadlift and pullups are my base movements with slight varation to each to activate the muscles differantly. Some "body bulders" meet the stereo type of being big and slow , no agility and thats generaly because they were not this way to start with. If you were slow and clummsy to start with getting bigger will only make it worse , if you were athletic then packed on size and still trained to maintain to athletic abilities you will generaly be better at them with added muscle , except for having added cardio endurace.
th<span style="font-weight: bold">e main differance between powerlifters and alot of body builders is simply diet</span> </div></div>
nah, a offseason bodybuilder, and a powerlifter have the same diet...the only difference is drug use...different compounds, and different usage points...

another difference is stance for the movement...bodybuilders(and real men) dont do sumo stance for lifts..

bench
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not all "body builders" stray from the basic compound movements.
The Squat , bench , deadlift and pullups are my base movements with slight varation to each to activate the muscles differantly. Some "body bulders" meet the stereo type of being big and slow , no agility and thats generaly because they were not this way to start with. If you were slow and clummsy to start with getting bigger will only make it worse , if you were athletic then packed on size and still trained to maintain to athletic abilities you will generaly be better at them with added muscle , except for having added cardio endurace.
the main differance between powerlifters and alot of body builders is simply diet</div></div>

JJ, I wasn't trying to imply anything negative toward 'body builders' I was just saying simply that I need to focus on the basics - squats, deadlift, bench/press, and pullups. I was only saying bodybuilder in my original post and followups to indicate that I was previously doing muscle specific exercises and wasn't doing overall/core exercises... That was my point.

Thanks for all the input!

Dave
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

Its no problem Dave , if you follow alot of the upper end guys you will see that they still focuse on the major lifts to get stronger and put on size and generlay only do isolation movements if they are trying to bring up a lagging body part or bring out more muscle seperation as they get closer to stage time

Anybody can build a great base doing just squats , pullups and some benching , throw in some deadlifts and maybe some heavy barbell rows and theirs not much else that will put size on like these basic moves.
Hell i think you could get a pretty damn good workout with just deadlifts and benching
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its no problem Dave , if you follow alot of the upper end guys you will see that they still focuse on the major lifts to get stronger and put on size and generlay only do isolation movements if they are trying to bring up a lagging body part or bring out more muscle seperation as they get closer to stage time

Anybody can build a great base doing just squats , pullups and some benching , throw in some deadlifts and maybe some heavy barbell rows and theirs not much else that will put size on like these basic moves.
Hell i think you could get a pretty damn good workout with just deadlifts and benching </div></div>

My brother and I decided we're going to experiment with powercleans and push press for our only upper body work for 6 months and see what happens.

Bench press despite continually working on form seems to cause shoulder aches everytime I surpass a PR. We're going to see just what we can do without it for a while and maybe come back around to it.
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My brother and I decided we're going to experiment with powercleans and push press for our only upper body work for 6 months and see what happens.

Bench press despite continually working on form seems to cause shoulder aches everytime I surpass a PR. We're going to see just what we can do without it for a while and maybe come back around to it.</div></div>

Barbell benchpress is a hard movement for myour shoulder to start with especialy flat , if you can try it at an incline or a decline as it take alot of stress away from your shoulder joint. I've had both my shoulers scoped from AC impingments and have since backed way way off any barbell benching typicaly only doing it once a month to failure with 225 at the end of a workout. I stick to 15deg incline and decline dumbells now and avoid any direct shoulder work and since doing this my power has come up , shoulders have filled out and never hurt.

ANY pressing movement with a barbell puts stress on the shoulder joint
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My brother and I decided we're going to experiment with powercleans and push press for our only upper body work for 6 months and see what happens.

Bench press despite continually working on form seems to cause shoulder aches everytime I surpass a PR. We're going to see just what we can do without it for a while and maybe come back around to it.</div></div>

Barbell benchpress is a hard movement for myour shoulder to start with especialy flat , if you can try it at an incline or a decline as it take alot of stress away from your shoulder joint. I've had both my shoulers scoped from AC impingments and have since backed way way off any barbell benching typicaly only doing it once a month to failure with 225 at the end of a workout. I stick to 15deg incline and decline dumbells now and avoid any direct shoulder work and since doing this my power has come up , shoulders have filled out and never hurt.

ANY pressing movement with a barbell puts stress on the shoulder joint </div></div>

Thanks JJones as always I appreciate the advice. I'll consider that after a hiatus.
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

I alternate my bench and its been helping a lot. Not with pain, because most heavy weighted workouts result in some pain. No pain no gain! But don't do it to where its causing you so much pain you cant enjoy your workouts.

Try this:

Laying on the ground or a flat bench. use a smith machine....
Start with a moderate weight to warm up and start with your weight about half of your arms range. Push up tossing the bar (you have to have a spotter, the smith acts like a spotter as well) and with your arms slightly bent catch the bar and come down to your chest. Repeat.... it builds muscle in your chest and arms quickly.

Or

Get in a rack type bench. Start with the weight about 4-6 inches above your chest (dependent on your arm length) bench slowly pushing the bar up about 3-4 inches off the rack. This will develop your peak muscles and get your max weight up. Its also crucial in forming those fast twitch muscle and tricepts. Your tri's are what fire you thru the last few inches of your flat bench. You will end up going heavier on this then most other chest benches. The short distance your pushing will let you go slightly more heavy. Do not let the bar crash down, set it down on the rack each time controlled.

Just some tips. Obviously there are other methods but thats what works for me and I can work to failure with my spotter. Plus if you were to drop any of this weight, the rack or smith will catch it. Just be prepared for a loud noise and you might piss your pants a little bit watching that bar come down at your chest.
laugh.gif
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

Before starting strength training I would begin with a program or routine to enhance flexibility, and stamina. Flexibility is crucial to avoiding injuries...and strength is worthless without stamina. im a fairly small guy, 6'1", 170, but I can out work larger younger guys because I have more of those two. I would recommend a program called Nia. It incorporates several techniques, including aspects of 3 martial arts. In a one hour class you move and strech every muscle in your body in different directions and at different intensities.....eliminates platauing from repeating the same stuff oveer and over.

there is one teacher of Nia in your area, many in Helena, you can find them at Nianow.com under classes. The woman in your area is:

Ashley Marten
208-883-4998
[email protected]

tell her a Nia Black Belt instructer sent you. I think CourageWolf, formerly Torfin, is familiar with Nia. One nice + is it seems to appeal to fit, attractive, upwardly mobile young women...lust factor keeps you motivated.
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My brother and I decided we're going to experiment with powercleans and push press for our only upper body work for 6 months and see what happens.

Bench press despite continually working on form seems to cause shoulder aches everytime I surpass a PR. We're going to see just what we can do without it for a while and maybe come back around to it.</div></div>

Barbell benchpress is a hard movement for myour shoulder to start with especialy flat , if you can try it at an incline or a decline as it take alot of stress away from your shoulder joint. I've had both my shoulers scoped from AC impingments and have since backed way way off any barbell benching typicaly only doing it once a month to failure with 225 at the end of a workout. I stick to 15deg incline and decline dumbells now and avoid any direct shoulder work and since doing this my power has come up , shoulders have filled out and never hurt.

ANY pressing movement with a barbell puts stress on the shoulder joint </div></div>

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/highperformance_mass_upper_body_pressing

watch, and read some of CT's stuff....

bench
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My brother and I decided we're going to experiment with powercleans and push press for our only upper body work for 6 months and see what happens.

Bench press despite continually working on form seems to cause shoulder aches everytime I surpass a PR. We're going to see just what we can do without it for a while and maybe come back around to it.</div></div>

Barbell benchpress is a hard movement for myour shoulder to start with especialy flat , if you can try it at an incline or a decline as it take alot of stress away from your shoulder joint. I've had both my shoulers scoped from AC impingments and have since backed way way off any barbell benching typicaly only doing it once a month to failure with 225 at the end of a workout. I stick to 15deg incline and decline dumbells now and avoid any direct shoulder work and since doing this my power has come up , shoulders have filled out and never hurt.

ANY pressing movement with a barbell puts stress on the shoulder joint </div></div>

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/highperformance_mass_upper_body_pressing

watch, and read some of CT's stuff....

bench </div></div>

will do thanks Bench.
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My brother and I decided we're going to experiment with powercleans and push press for our only upper body work for 6 months and see what happens.

Bench press despite continually working on form seems to cause shoulder aches everytime I surpass a PR. We're going to see just what we can do without it for a while and maybe come back around to it.</div></div>

Barbell benchpress is a hard movement for myour shoulder to start with especialy flat , if you can try it at an incline or a decline as it take alot of stress away from your shoulder joint. I've had both my shoulers scoped from AC impingments and have since backed way way off any barbell benching typicaly only doing it once a month to failure with 225 at the end of a workout. I stick to 15deg incline and decline dumbells now and avoid any direct shoulder work and since doing this my power has come up , shoulders have filled out and never hurt.

ANY pressing movement with a barbell puts stress on the shoulder joint </div></div>

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/highperformance_mass_upper_body_pressing

watch, and read some of CT's stuff....

bench </div></div>

will do thanks Bench. </div></div>
the rest of the body...if you search the website there is a lot more stuff...

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/highperformance_mass_lower_body_pressing

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_arti...like_an_athlete

bench
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Before starting strength training I would begin with a program or routine to enhance flexibility, and stamina. Flexibility is crucial to avoiding injuries...and strength is worthless without stamina. im a fairly small guy, 6'1", 170, but I can out work larger younger guys because I have more of those two. I would recommend a program called Nia...

...tell her a Nia Black Belt instructer sent you. I think CourageWolf, formerly Torfin, is familiar with Nia. One nice + is it seems to appeal to fit, attractive, upwardly mobile young women...lust factor keeps you motivated.</div></div>

Yea, one could do that. Or you could try out something like this:

www.AnimalPak.com

or just as awesome, this:

www.GymJones.com
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crazy bay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">or just as awesome, this:

www.GymJones.com </div></div>

Prepare to be laughed out the door if you are not a movie star or are on a professional athletic team of some sort.

My brother and I called them up and that was basically the response we got
laugh.gif
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crazy bay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">or just as awesome, this:

www.GymJones.com </div></div>

Prepare to be laughed out the door if you are not a movie star or are on a professional athletic team of some sort.

My brother and I called them up and that was basically the response we got
laugh.gif
</div></div>

That's gay that they told you guys off. Yet, they will let one pay 50 bucks a month on their website for a membership. I have not done it, but I know somebody who trained there for a month or so and he had nothing but good things to say about them. Maybe I'll give them a call next week and see what response I get.
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

Isolation exercises are not only for bodybuilders or people bulking up lagging parts before stage time. I am nowhere near bodybuilder, but almost everything I do is focused on one muscle or group. Of course, if you are not taking in the proper amount of food and nutrients, you will see very limited gains. I am only 140 currently and just getting into working out again. My freshman year in college, we had a gym in the basement of the residence hall, so myself and my roommate went 5 days a week, sometime 6. I was in the best shape of my life when I was doing all that. Plus, the only thing I took for supplementing is Whey Protein.

This is what I currently do:
I do split parts throughout the week
I also do 10/8/6 reps for 3 sets

Mon&Thurs
Chest & Biceps:
Bench Press
Incline Press
Decline Press
Cable Cross-overs
Preacher Curl
Standing Barbell curl
Cable Curl
Pull-ups

Tues&Fri
Triceps & Back:
Tricep Overhead Press
Cable Pull-Down
Close-Grip Bench Press
Wide-Grip Row
Close-Grip Row
Bent-Over Row

Wed&Sat/Sun
Legs & Shoulders:
Squats
Deadlift
Calf Raises (Machine for 3 sets and 3 sets on Smith rack)
Leg Press
Lunges
Leg Curls
Military Press
Shoulder Press (seated with dumbbells)
Upright Row
Lat Raises

I do abs every day I work out as well. This is pretty much what I did freshman year, and felt amazing. Switch up the exercises every 6 weeks or so as well, so you don't hit plateaus.
Hopefully this helps
 
Re: How to get started for real... Strength

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crazy bay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crazy bay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">or just as awesome, this:

www.GymJones.com </div></div>

Prepare to be laughed out the door if you are not a movie star or are on a professional athletic team of some sort.

My brother and I called them up and that was basically the response we got
laugh.gif
</div></div>


That's gay that they told you guys off. Yet, they will let one pay 50 bucks a month on their website for a membership. I have not done it, but I know somebody who trained there for a month or so and he had nothing but good things to say about them. Maybe I'll give them a call next week and see what response I get. </div></div>


This was many years ago, so they've probably opened their perview alot since then!
 
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