Yes. You screw up, you own it with grace. I DQ'ed by allowing my hand to slip as i ran the bolt home on a prone stage... finger rotated around and hit the trigger. Bang. Byebye. I stowed my gear and stayed with my squad for the remainder of the match (three stages). I don't know that any of them cared much, but it was important to me - I would have appreciated the gesture had someone else on the squad done what I did.
My credo is, no one is going to remember your score next weekend, but everyone will remember how you acted when you posted it.
My credo is, no one is going to remember your score next weekend, but everyone will remember how you acted when you posted it.
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I feel like I see a lot of people using ejection port flags. I guess people worry the plastic will melt in the chamber? Is that even a concern? it obviously doesn't show clear and wouldn't have prevented this guys ND.
I started doing it because I saw others do it. Someone school me on chamber flags. Which ones should I get so its not a concern, if it ever really was.
I feel like these matches should require the same thing they do in IDPA where the RO confirms clear, then you drop the slide and pull the trigger on an empty chamber. Why don't we do this?
I started doing it because I saw others do it. Someone school me on chamber flags. Which ones should I get so its not a concern, if it ever really was.
I feel like these matches should require the same thing they do in IDPA where the RO confirms clear, then you drop the slide and pull the trigger on an empty chamber. Why don't we do this?
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Yes, some of the cheap plastics could melt. Silicone or other thermoset plastics are the safest in theory as they will char/burn, but will not melt. Polypropylene and nylon are supposed to be the ones to avoid.
With that said I've run the cheap polypropylene MTM and redi-check flags for years without issue on both AR's and bolt guns. Yet, if you're really worried about it silicone tubing is cheap and easy enough to find.
I won't get into safety practices at matches. There is already an entire thread dissecting that topic over several pages.
I’ve been using “plastic in the chamber” ECI’s since they were made mandatory at Camp Perry in 1989. They were made mandatory because of almost exactly the same scenario laid out in the video.
I’ve used them in M1’s, M14’s, AR15’s, and bolt guns. Never have I seen a spec of plastic melt into a hot chamber. Not even after a Rattle Battle Match. There is no excuse not to use one.
+1
All the PRS shooters excuses for not sticking one where it really belongs (in the chamber) are prima dona bullshit.
What a safety shitshow
Because handguns go into a holster after "if clear, hammer down and holster" where they don't point to or flag anyone.
After someone is done shooting a USPSA stage with a pistol-caliber carbine and unload and show clear, the RO will insert an empty chamber indicator into the chamber and then will have the shooter lower the bolt onto the ECI to hold it there.
That's what should be happening in PRS.
"But muh expensive barrel"
Local PRS match. It’s a non issue here???
We did exactly that at Competitions Dynamics Steel Safari this year.
I know why, but it's still funny how this thread us been up for 5 days and such low interaction/traffic.
but the thread about the opposite thing (ND and not owning up to it) is still ongoing 2 months and has over 700 replies and 19k views.
but the thread about the opposite thing (ND and not owning up to it) is still ongoing 2 months and has over 700 replies and 19k views.
Honestly, I am surprised.
Question, why does he say that going into the ground wouldve been worse? I was brought up with the thought that if the bullet goes into the ground at least you know where it is, in the air is anybody's guess where it is gonna come down.
Kudos on the video, seems like a good dude.
Kudos on the video, seems like a good dude.
I shot at Alabama Precision a few weeks ago and they had a box of them for anybody who needed one, forward thinking by the MD.
Flag belongs in the chamber. Any argument otherwise is just excuses. I’ve never seen any chamber flag, of any material, leave residue in the chamber and it won’t, unless you drop it in the mud and neglect to clean it off before shoving it in there.
i guess he was referring to that going into the ground could have caused a richocet, or other debris (rocks etc) being thrown at people.
i dont disagree with him totally, but i can see where he was saying in his remote area, that going up into the air, with a strong wind, was probably better? i dont know. really tough situation all around.
just a reminder, the only thing that dissipates energy completely is the ground.
Definitely something I need to watch, going from an internal magazine Model 70 (controlled push feed) to the new Bergara HMR. Never an excuse for no eyeball in the chamber, no barrel flag, AND not following trigger discipline, but something I might overlook, too. Thanks for posting, and good for the guy publicly owning up.
A decent chamber flag is definitely a good investment for anyone who is shooting matches... definitely think this guy did the right thing talking about it publicly. Its always a good reminder that shit happens if you get to nonchalant even if you you are confident you wouldn't make this exact mistake.
Is the extractor not engaging immediately on pushing the round into chamber a new thing though? I'm trying to think of rifles that do grab the rim without locking (or starting to lock) the bolt. I know the Fix does ( at least it would when it would actually chamber a round for me haha) but that is the only rifle that I have used recently where you could cycle through rounds without actually locking it down. Anyone know of any others?
Is the extractor not engaging immediately on pushing the round into chamber a new thing though? I'm trying to think of rifles that do grab the rim without locking (or starting to lock) the bolt. I know the Fix does ( at least it would when it would actually chamber a round for me haha) but that is the only rifle that I have used recently where you could cycle through rounds without actually locking it down. Anyone know of any others?
Speaking of chamber flags.
Even at locations where they are not required they are appreciated by a lot of people.
@midSCarolina
Do you mean like a mauser?
Even at locations where they are not required they are appreciated by a lot of people.
@midSCarolina
Do you mean like a mauser?
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I used to hate them when hiking, but seeing so many people flagging and just generally carless, I have become a fan and kick myself in the ass that I ever thought otherwise.
This one holds the bolt closed, keeping some of the dirt out on hiking matches. The dealie on the bungee, helps me quickly find it when I drop it on a stage or whatever.
The thing I think is important is for the flag to go into the chamber and can only do so if no round is in the camber. Not just hold the bolt back like some of the new magazine versions.
This one holds the bolt closed, keeping some of the dirt out on hiking matches. The dealie on the bungee, helps me quickly find it when I drop it on a stage or whatever.
The thing I think is important is for the flag to go into the chamber and can only do so if no round is in the camber. Not just hold the bolt back like some of the new magazine versions.
you are thinking of controlled round feed rifles. FN SPRs (with factory bottom metals), and Winchester Model 70s are control round feed. the extractor would be engaged on the cartridge rim before it gets into the chamber. Remington 700 pattern rifles are basically ALL push feed and will not engage the extractor until the bullet is seated in the chamber and the bolt is rotated closed.
bighorn, arc, defiance, have CRF actions. just FYI
and they are all really popular in PRS.
impact is push feed. not sure about the others
Thank you. Looks like I need to get out more... and use the correct terminology ? haha. My AI, Desert Tech, R700s, and Bergaras have all been push feed IIRC. I think the fix is the only CRF that I have used in awhile. I've never had any issues with any of the push feed rifles but I guess I can see the issue here if you are distracted/under stress or going from a CRF or push feed, but sounds like this guy didn't even know which type of bolt his rifle had.
Diver, where did you get that flag?
good to know.
But my question is, do they truly function that way when XYZ magazine is being used? I know i swapped my FN SPR to a CDI bottom metal feeding AICS mags and unless im really slow on the bolt, it will not act like a CRF. maybe its not adjusted properly.
Which begs the question, with all the bottom metals and the different accurate, aics, AW, magpul mags out there (yes, they are all supposed to be the same but anyone with any functional knowledge knows they are all a little different) is it still fucntioning like a CRF? i would bet not.
This is only a partial truth and is somewhat misleading. For example, while Defiance does have crf as an option, I’ll bet that 90-95% of the defiance actions used in PRS are regular push feed Deviants and not crf. Of course, this discussion in itself has not much to do with the OP, other than the rabbit hole we’re heading into.
Bottom line is that a flag inserted into the chamber properly would have prevented this ND.
The flags are a dime a dozen, what @Diver160651 did, and did for me this weekend is loop paracord through the hole and make a loop that holds the bolt behind the flag, making it safe, keeping it from falling out while moving, and keeping first and dirt out of the chamber.
Not sure who or where he stole it from! ?
Ha, it is shock cord not para.... You want the tension to hold the bolt.
DocHolliday01
The Chamber flags need the cut out to let the bolt close as much as possible. Some you can trim material but found the Redi-Mag to be generally GTG out of the box. I drill a small hole in the flag to pass the 1/8" shock cord through.
Chamber Flag:
Amazon.com : Redi-Mag Chamber Checker : Sports & Outdoors
Amazon.com : Redi-Mag Chamber Checker : Sports & Outdoors
www.amazon.com
Remove Before Firing thing
Amazon.com: Remove Before Firing Keychain - Neon Orange/Black - 5pcs: Clothing
Buy Remove Before Firing Keychain - Neon Orange/Black - 5pcs: Shop top fashion brands Keychains at Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY and Returns possible on eligible purchases
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1/8" shock cord any brand will do
Amazon.com : PARACORD PLANET 1/8 Inch Shock Cord - Choose from 10, 25, 50, and 100 Feet - Made in USA : Sports & Outdoors
Amazon.com : PARACORD PLANET 1/8 Inch Shock Cord - Choose from 10, 25, 50, and 100 Feet - Made in USA : Sports & Outdoors
www.amazon.com
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Damn, figures i bought the wrong shit, returned and reordered! I thought it was all shock cord. GTG. ?
I use a PLUGR...works well
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