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How to spot a FAKE Atlas Bi-pod

The new ones coming out of China are not like the fake one pictured. Wow. If Atlas has a license with a Chinese company, it may be too late. I feel bad because there's less slop in the index plate than my real one. Atlas should do something now because it'll be much harder to tell the difference in the latest incarnation unless right next to a real one. Folks, you've got to buy from a reputable source if you want a real one. Yikes. By the way, the new ones are coming with the ADM 170-S quick release and it's really damn close.
 
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The new ones coming out of China are not like the fake one pictured. Wow. If Atlas has a license with a Chinese company, it may be too late. I feel bad because there's less slop in the index plate than my real one. Atlas should do something now because it'll be much harder to tell the difference in the latest incarnation unless right next to a real one. Folks, you've got to buy from a reputable source if you want a real one. Yikes. By the way, the new ones are coming with the ADM 170-S quick release and it's really damn close.

I really hate this because I'm considering an Atlas bipod. I feel confident about buying it from a reputable dealer, but if I ever want to sell it, I don't want the value to diminish because a prospective buyer is worried that mine be a clone.
 
Yeah, I am looking to buy one in a GB here and I am worried about this kind of thing. Like someone said, they are getting almost too close to tell the difference but one is much more expensive than the other.
 
I would think that the first clue would be that the unit is stamped "Atras."

Yes, I deserve to burn for that... But Atlas is an awesome company with fantastic products that are designed/made/sold in USA and are great examples of how details and quality matter. Ripping off a company like that with a crap product doesn't just cost them sales, it costs them reputation. And that's worth more than just a lost sales to folks too cheap to go to a reputable dealer... a lot more!

And to Kasey's point above, a licensed replica is a whole different ball of wax from a true fake which steals intellectual property, design, copyright and reputation. Licensed replicas have their place. Abject ripoffs... do not!

Cheers,

Sirhr


Thank you to the OP for posting all the photos and information.

And ... Sirhr ... you might want to edit your post ... I looked ... The fake has "ATLAS" stamped on it ... Look at the picture.


:cool:
 
Thank you to the OP for posting all the photos and information.

And ... Sirhr ... you might want to edit your post ... I looked ... The fake has "ATLAS" stamped on it ... Look at the picture.
:cool:

No, it stamp "Atras!" Wen we leploduce rovery Amelican Bipod, we stamp acculately to the rast detair. Preese send dorrars to our Nigelian banker Warroard-owned furfirrment company and we send you Atras chop chop!

I know, I know ^^^^^
wong_zpsf94bc85b.jpg


Cheers,

Sirhr
 
I know there are a few posters that don't mind dealing with (and making them richer) communists-you are the same people that would have dealt with Nazi Germany before Pearl Harbor. Supporting communist china is support for cheating, stealing, and lying. Sure you may save a couple of bucks now, just like you could have saved/made a couple dealing with the Nazi party under Hitler. Thank God we still live in a "free" country, you can do business with whom ever you want (as long as it is legal, of course), but your responsibility as an American should be foremost in your actions and choices. Putting funds in the hands of the people's republic, is arming those that would do you harm......just saying.


Might as well just throw in the towel. We live in a global marketplace, with virtualy all of the US based multi-nationals and the US government supporting/collaborating/co-oping/buying/selling/trading with communist countries like China.

How about you stop being a fucking hypocrit.... beacuse I will bet the farm about 75% or more of the shit you own is made in china or a similar nation. Cloths, housewear, household products, Car componets, Any electronic device, ect.

The rest of the world does not give a flying fuck about intelectual propperty. That is the world we live in. You either accept that and adapt your business model to that, or you suffer.

These clones will not put atlas out of business. Most people who would buy the real atlas, would not skimp on a clone. Those who wouldn't buy it, would never buy a real one anyway (or more than they already own). Solid Product development, Good quality, Good customer service, and a Competive price will determine how well the company/entity does.

Maybe you should look around. This is not your grandfather's USA. Fuck, If anything... China is more capitalist than the USA .
 
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Why would you worry?

If its from a legit company or vendor then there is no reason to expect it.

If you buy online from ebay or some other place, thats why you use paypal or other method to get your money back if its fake.

Truth is, People who pay $60 for an Atlas, deserve to be ripped off if their too fucking stupid to realized you get what you pay for.

Stupid hurts and is expensive, as it should be.
 
Kasey was kind enough to get on the phone with me the other day to help me out with a flush cup question. I mention this because he was more than helpful about spending the time on a $5 part and answered questions about his Atlas Bipod. I purchased one of his bipods and accessories.

Thank you Kasey/BT Industries and will continue to support the company.
 
Kasey was kind enough to get on the phone with me the other day to help me out with a flush cup question. I mention this because he was more than helpful about spending the time on a $5 part and answered questions about his Atlas Bipod. I purchased one of his bipods and accessories.

Thank you Kasey/BT Industries and will continue to support the company.
Same here but on a different issue

Answered my questions thoroughly and steered me in the right direction on the product I was looking for and was very pleased, a real class act and I will continue to support Atlas cause of it.

Thanks Kasey!!

Can't say much about the Chinese as they make a mean General Tso chicken down the road from me that I'm a sucker for......
 
Why would you worry?

If its from a legit company or vendor then there is no reason to expect it.

If you buy online from ebay or some other place, thats why you use paypal or other method to get your money back if its fake.

Truth is, People who pay $60 for an Atlas, deserve to be ripped off if their too fucking stupid to realized you get what you pay for.

Stupid hurts and is expensive, as it should be.

What if someone pays $300 for the real deal and gets a $60 knockoff from someone on here? Just saying. People do GB's all of the time.
 
Man them little guys copy anything. I recently saw a top gear episode where they were in China and showing some new cars they were making were damn near replicas for other manufacturers vehicles. Even the names were like one letter off if I remember.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4
 
Well I just ordered one from Triad and felt good about it until I saw this post...........

If its from a legit company or vendor then there is no reason to expect it.

Now I'm WORRIED!! .......................................... just bustin your balls Steve, thanks for the fast shipping!
 
I found something on this. While I was on eBay make sure you note the last bullet point in the description.

* The bipod legs can be locked in five positions through a 180 degree arc.
* Mounts directly to any 1913 Style picatinny rail via included ADM 170-S Lever .
* The bipod accepts the Atlas range of interchangeable feet.
* The bipod mounts allows both pan and tilt.
* The bipod accepts the 3" Atlas extension.
* Heught Range approximately 4.75-9.0" .
* Weight 12.7 ounces.
* Available in black only.
* Built Material :Aircraft Grade Aluminum Alloy.
* This bipod is good copy.
 
The one i bought off Ebay said genuine, it was from a US Company are the copies using the same packaging as the real ones? As in the plastic sleeve with the yellow paper card from B&T?

P.S. I paid $219
 
Guys don't get hot, relax and see the big picture.

You say is a thievery , i say yes is a thievery if someone ask you 300$ for a clone but if someone ask 50$ for a clone and you know is a clone i see no thievery on it .
Also is not my problem as a honest consumer to protect patents for companies ..they have laws and lawyers for this .
But ...now to talk about REAL ATLAS why this bi-pod cost so much? If someone can produce a clone and sell that clone at 50$ in profit ...makes me wonder how much is the profit in case of the REAL ATLAS 300%-500% something close to this? is no way ATLAS to cost 300$!! some aluminium pieces putted together can't be 300$ , if the owners want to get maximum profit because is an good concept and an unique idea i also think is a bad move, selling 1000 units with 50$/piece profit will get you more money then selling 100 with 200$/piece profit , so B&T Industries make this bi-pods 150$ and you will make real money and will have many happy customers else you already see the effects , market and prices dictate the need of an alternative and this is exactly what is happening with this clones , if producer of ATLAS don't act fast they will be in same boat with Louis Vuitton for example , guys who make their clones make more money then the "original" but overpriced producer .

Now things get simpler isn't it ? No matter if is clone or not, you just need to decide if the value of the product you buy is in pair with the price they ask for it .

Your money your decision .
 
@ TRAC
Everything can be made cheaper in China. The businesses don't have the shit taxed out of them and the labor is almost free.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Fapatalk 2.
 
@ TRAC
Everything can be made cheaper in China. The businesses don't have the shit taxed out of them and the labor is almost free.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Fapatalk 2.

I agree KUSA but lets compare Atlas with another Made in USA products , products considered by people with much more experience then i have , members here in Hide, very good and quality products.

Whiskey-3: $939

whiskey3.jpg


McRee : $616
5-COM%20FIX.jpg


XLR : $750

2pzhct5.jpg


RTS Varmint Model : $1000

rtsv-1024x682.jpg


Alpine Gunworks : $1070

x-product-1.jpg


Rock Solid : $750

RS-Surgeon-8.jpg


Now compare the amount of work , level and precision of machining necessary to get a finish product like the fine chassis above and ...Atlas bi pod we talking about :

Atlas : $275
_dsc0197_1.jpg


Please watch this picture and ask yourself to produce the bi pod really cost 3.7/10 (36.6%) of the cost to produce the chassis ($750 chassis vs $275 bipod)?

2pzhct5.jpg


And we can have more examples , with $299 you can buy a Ruger American with discount , with $350 you can have a Savage Axis with scope....
Maybe is just me but seems like the value of the products are not based on what they offer to the customer but on trends and fashion .

I apologise to the owners and the members of this forum also to the initiator of this topic BigJohn141 for being off topic .
 
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That kind of puts things into perspective. Maybe Kasey will drop his price once his r&d is paid off. I'd love to pick up a V8 for $150 or less.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Fapatalk 2.
 
Im with you. I've yet to find something a 300 dollar bipod can do that my $100-$150 harris pods can't. Sure machined aluminum/steel looks better, but unless it's also blowing me I don't see a need for it :/

I can see if they are a small company and they need to find some way to pay off r&d but come on.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
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You guys raise some good points... BUT... keep in mind that when you go to volume production, you can make more for less. Atlas started making a premium product for top-tier users (this forum is dedicated to the Serious Tactical Marksman... I think.) For years, everything was basically hand made and production always lagged behind demand and craft-production costs money.

Enter China that rips off the visual design without A. R&D costs or B. quality materials or C. Attention to final fit/finish or D. Marketing/expense of building a loyal client base... AND a ready market of Airsoft players and people who are happy to build rifles that look professional but are built out of products mainly with visual appeal... and suddenly you can sell tons of cheap scopes. Volume goes up, price goes down. Simple manufacturing economics. Price goes down further when you have let the company you stole from do all the 'hard' work of making the market and creating a reputation... that makes tens-of-thousands of Airsoft owners want your product.

To use the 'chassis' analogy above... take that a step further. If you made a million chassis at a run, you could sell them for about $10 each. How can anyone justify one of those chassis for $300-500 when you can buy a computer for that. I mean look what has to go into a computer that is now a few hundred dollars? The difference is in volume production. And you won't get a hand-made Aston Martin for Kia Optima prices -- and Kia can only offer that product for that price because it's cheap enough that a mass-audience will buy it simply because its... adequate. Everyone wants and Aston Martin. But we settle for what works or, for some, stick Aston Martin stickers on a Kia Optima and think we're driving Aston Martins.

The guys who make Atlas (and I have e-mailed with them in the past and received excellent support, as have many here), could probably have taken a big risk, put in more CNC machines, added more people and tried to grow bigger and lower prices. Then we'd probably all be complaining how they "got big, forgot their roots and now just turn out too many products." And there is a limited market for the quality product and a far less limited market for a fake... so trying to make too many of a quality product still leaves risk of over-production. I think I read above that they licensed their product. That's another option and a good one, as long as they have good terms and it does not wreck their core reputation.

No easy answers here, but blaming the originators of a product who took all the risk, put their imagination, toil and sweat into building a bigger mousetrap for the fact that it costs more than you want to pay is, to me, inappropriate. What is more inappropriate is theft and for 200+ years, the stealing of intellectual property has been theft. There is a reason Thomas Jefferson established the Patent Office before he did a lot of other things... because he knew that a foundation of the American Dream and the American economy was being able to succeed if you were smart, motivated and willing to take a risk.

Finally, on a last thought, it seems to me that any Chinese entrepreneur smart enough to find American (or Swiss or French or German) products to rip off... ought to be smart enough to innovate themselves! It's a shame that 1.3 billion people are dedicated to thievery instead of innovation. Because if some of these folks put their minds to building a better mousetrap instead of making plants that churn out fake Atlas bipods, Rolox Watches and Lewis Vuitton bags as fast as they can bang them out, we'd probably all be ahead of the game.

Just my 2 percent of a dollar... And I'll stick with the genuine article.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
TRAC, great illustration, maybe it would help a little for you to have some additional facts. The BT10 and BT10-NC cost is 219.95, adding the ADM Lever is 60.00, or about 21% of the BT10-LW17 cost. So for your illustration it would be more accurate to use the BT10 price at 219.95.

Also, I trust you know that machine time, materials, finishing and treatments determine cost of a given part, times the number of parts to make the whole product. Meaning it might take twice as long to run a small complicated part as it does a larger simpler part. Meaning I suspect you would value 1/4 pound of face flesh higher than a pound of flesh off your butt. And just for grins, there are 64 parts in the BT10.

It amazes me when members state they have no concern for intellectual property rights if it means they can buy a fake counterfeit for less money. I suspect if you ever have a "velco" idea you'll want some protection for that idea and that protection is called the law. And like all laws, they are only as good as the members of that society are willing to abide by them. No pass is given if it breaking that law benefits you as an individual somehow, it's the law. How about its okay for you to get gang raped because it kept the gang out of my yard, thus benefiting me?

Pricing, I could, as of today change our business plan, go to a "life expectancy" model, buying the least expensive materials, forgo the heat treating and hard anodizing, have our products manufactured "off-shore" fire our 13 employees, drop all benefits, hire green card workers and run a sweat shop to gain customers that buy on price alone.

I'll pass.

If life was nothing more than about money, I'd be dealing in drugs.

FWIW - We've not increased our prices since 2006, the Atlas, introduced in 2008, remains at the same price. This is common in the marketplace... that's why every November/December we get contacted by dealers asking for our price increases for the following year.

On the cost of doing business, now due to the counterfeits, we are getting weekly emails and phone calls about these fakes failing, not working, breaking. We have had a few customers rage that they bought a real Atlas at a gunshow for 275.00 cash only to find out its a fake.... A no-win for us as we are suppose to "do something about it", Like what? Ask Americans to say no to buying fakes? The FBI says it is too small of a case for them, our Government is too busy socializing our nation to be concerned about the livelihood of 14 Americans and their jobs. So even if we sold out and went off shore, we'd still have the additional cost of doing business stated above with zero benefit.

The moral position stated by some members here is symbolic of what is wrong with America. After all it is all about me.....
 
The moral position stated by some members here is symbolic of what is wrong with America. After all it is all about me.....[/QUOTE]



Kasey........Didn't you sell the rights to your Design to an overseas(Chinese) company? I believe it was an Airsoft company selling them as "Airsoft bipods" if I'm not mistaken. I also believe these are the same products described as "Fake". Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
I support good ideas and great products with my dollars. I have one Atlas on my rifle and another on the way for a future purchase. Buying top quality gives me the sense that even if that future purchase never materializes, I can recoup most of my investment on the second hand market. As soon as I saw the Atlas and what it was capable of, I replaced my Harris immediately, because the Atlas served my specific needs as a shooter better than the what the Harris was able to.

You all might find this video interesting with some of the points it makes about patent laws, copying, and one company's approach to that world. I realize that the business model presented doesn't work for everyone/everything, but it is a different perspective. In case it needs to be mentioned, I have no associations with the person or company in the video, I just happened to be at the Ted X Boulder when the speaker delivered this talk.

TEDxBoulder - Nathan Seidle - How Open Hardware will Take Over the World - YouTube
 
Well you are right in that we contracted with a airsoft company, PTS, also licensed to make a airsoft Magpul, FNH, Colt and other airsoft product that are to be MARKED as such.

You are wrong in that the fakes or counterfeits have no such "for Airsoft only" mark and are being sold as Atlas bipods.

While I appreciate your effort to clarify, I suspect your inclusion of the quote was to question my morality. Believe it or not that decision was made not on projected financial gains but rather an effort to have a friendly business relationship with a reputable company that would then have a reason to be willing to defend their licensed rights of our product in that area of the world. They have had some success and are working to resolve others there, all we can do here is try and discourage consumers from buying them.

Call it a strategic business plan based on the historically observed business model of knocking off products and American consumers willing to buy them at lower cost to which the trend is to join the masses and go off-shore to compete.... I'm trying a different approach.
 
Never said anything about "For Airsoft Only" marks. There seems to be only one model of bipod that resembles yours and it is being sold on all the Chinese Airsoft websites. It is also identical to the one posted by BigJohn on the start of this thread. If you believe these "NOT" to be the PTS Airsoft version of yours, can you show us the PTS Airsoft version, or direct us to the website selling these PTS Airsoft versions. In the case of morality, it is not my place to judge anyone. Though you are right in the fact that there is something wrong with this Country, the difference is instead of acting like our Senate, by pointing the finger at the other guy, we should all start looking in the mirror.
 
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Kasey ,
I hear you loud and clear .
I bought one of the airsoft for grins to see what they were producing . It is a good copy , yes . If all you want is it to LOOK like yours . For a static display it would pass . To actually use it , hell no .
It is also why I have 3 of your bipods . they are on an AX, a Surgeon 338 , and a Cheytac 375. When the big boy comes out , I want one of them to .

The moral compass in the US is really getting screwed up . There are so few people that will say buy American , and then actually do it .

It is sad it is the only one , yet nice to see that the cottage industry of firearms is still alive . Not much else in the US is .

I am still in the market for a VMC and lathe so that I can job shop parts for a couple very high end companies in the US .

One would think that if the government wanted to keep things in the US , they would offer some kind of financial assistance to a start up business. Not so . If I were fresh off the boat so to speak , the money would be thrown at me by the bucket full.

Your approach is working and is the same thing I have done for the last 30 years , and will keep doing it until I'm dead .

Greg
 
Pleistarchus, I stated on page one something about the Airsoft along with the PTS mark being on the licensed PTS Airsoft version, meaning the PTS version is not the same as the fake counterfeit ones. So your still half right, half wrong.

Oh and its okay to judge one as long as you are willing to be judged by the same standard, some guy named Matthew said it and I believe it. So in this case, if you were not trying to make a point about the morality of my business decision by quoting me, why did you add it to your post?

RHunter, thanks, glad I was not being totally off court...

pyrofx, thanks and you touched on why I love this industry, 99.5% are good, honest moral people. I'm not one to bash others products but will make an exception for these knock offs.... :) I'll just say they look like ours and that is where I'll stop as I'll not give them feedback.
 
thanks and you touched on why I love this industry, 99.5% are good, honest moral people. I'm not one to bash others products but will make an exception for these knock offs....

There are some good people in this industry but that are also some real thieves as well. I have no problem ripping a manufacturer that is selling crap product for an insane price. There is a point where screwing your customers does cross a moral line. Inevitably though, you get some ass that will say well you didn't have to buy it.. As if it were my fault I dealt with a snake. It is especially difficult when there is no try before you buy in this business.

There are some gun makers that are flat criminals and there are some gun shop owners that are true scum. I dont know that I would go as far as saying it is 99.5% that are decent, my experiences have proven otherwise. This market we have had the last year has really showed me, and a lot of other people, who the real scum is... Inflated prices for ammo, reloading supplies, 3X list for guns... I'd say half of the middleman and retail industry got caught up in the inflated market and it was definitely at the consumers expense. That half of the industry I do not do business with any longer. I get the whole supply and demand thing but if you sacrifice the future relationship with your customers today for the sake of cleaning out their wallet, dont be surprised that when the dust settles they are doing business with the gun dealer down the road.

Cheers
 
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I find it ironic that you find what's wrong with this Country symbolic with members moral positions while all along you defend doing business with a Chinese company then cry foul when the Chinese start knocking your product off. You can sugar coat it all you like, making a deal with the Devil, no matter how morally sound the deal looks like is still making a deal with the Devil. But that's not the problem here because, including myself, as a business owner, I and the majority of US based businesses deal directly or indirectly with the Chinese one way or another. The problem is you blaming others for the problem in this Country while all along believing your not doing anything wrong. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.


P.S. You make a remarkable product. It's what separates us from the rest of the world. The majority of the members here need to work a week to buy your product so don't blame them for what's wrong with this Country.


Chris
 
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Pleistarchus, thanks for clearing that up.

I believe there are legitimate Chinese based companies, PTS is one of them, and that is why I chose to do business with them.

If you cannot see the difference between a Chinese company that goes through the legally binding licensing process with the rightful owner and one that does not, then your offense at my morality statement is indeed based on what is reflected in the mirror you speak of.

To be clear, I have an issue with anyone knocking off anothers proprietary product as well as anyone that condones that practice as acceptable.

Regarding your ability to judge the majority of SH members income, I think you are once again, mostly wrong. But to entertain you, I did not set out to build a inexpensive bipod, I set out to build the best we could which then set the price point. Again, not your average business model, but just the only way I could do it and know I was using the gift that God gave me righteously.

Want to guess how many times a week I use to tell potential customers they didn't need the Atlas back when I was answering phone calls? Nah, no need to guess, you probably will question such an statement because why would a capitalist do that.... I got a real good feel for where you are regarding the measure of success the Atlas has seen and I can't help you, that is beyond my pay scale. But to be clear, you do not know me.
 
Kasey, I was offended by your comment and my response was clearly a defense mechanism for those that did not want to confront you for insulting them. It had nothing to do with your product, your company or the people you deal with, just your comment. And it seems you continue to look past what made me react the way I did and keep looking at what "you" see in the mirror. I can continue trying to make my point but I believe it to be futile. But to be clear, I wouldn't want to know you, you would probably bring the worst out in me.
 
Pleistarchus, I'll stand by my comment, knowing its offensive to some, so what? Those same people could care less if another person is adversely affected by their actions and comments. Does it not offend you when someone cares nothing about property rights because it doesn't effect them, their income or job? Who knows maybe it will give some a gut check on the reality of the "its all about me" mentality. Old preacher use to say that if you throw a rock into a pack of dogs the one that yelps is the one that got hit, well that applies here.

Why you yelped? you stated "I was offended by your comment and my response was clearly a defense mechanism for those that did not want to confront you for insulting them."

So now you are able to judge the "some" I addressed, not the many nor the majority that could have possibly been offended by my comment, they have now lost their spine and no longer can voice their opinion on a internet forum? I doubt it. I suspect of the few that might have been offended did do a gut check and saw it from another perspective and came to a different conclusion. But that's just a guess.

And you are also able to judge SH members income by stating; "The majority of the members here need to work a week to buy your product so don't blame them for what's wrong with this Country.".

Amazing! How can you state that without any facts to back that up? Just throw out a WAG as fact??? How about we run a poll, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm thinking that you are.

And for clarity I'm not blaming the majority, my position is that the majority of SH members are not thieves nor do they condone theft, they have a solid value system and are honest law abiding citizens. I am pointing my finger at the members that posted to this thread that have zero regard for others property rights because it does not effect their income or job and they can buy whatever widget cheaper, the "its all about me" types.
 
Nice.

dylanmj, I know people in the industry that have taken the same approach with their injection molded products, they expect to be copied literally months if not weeks after product release. They just keep churning out new products.... They are geared towards the dollar and doing well.

I'm having a blast, living the American dream seeing an idea become a marketable product is a blessing. Working with the people here and seeing them realize their dreams is an amazing thing that money cant buy. I simply wish to protect what what has been assigned to B&T and do take some offense at those that dismiss such ownership as legitimate.

sirhrmechanic, thanks for the post, gives good perspective. As you know, its the narrow view that causes one to stumble....
 
Kasey, Where can I get one of these PTS marked bipods?
 
Pleistarchus, I'm no longer inclined to entertain you as your motives have proven insincere.
 
Yup, I don't like fake titties and I don't like fake bipods neither. Every rifle I buy gets a new ATLAS. Nuff said.
 
I for one, as a consumer , want the cheapest product or best "value". I also understand the realities of a global market place, and understand that if you want to stay competitive you need to be continue to innovate and bring value to your product. This can be done with a lower price, customer support, product improvements, ect. I am not bashing you Kasey, as you make a great product. But sitting here bitching about the realities of the world is a futile effort in itself. You arent going to get a pity party from me, or most of the members here.

Here is a humble sugjestion. Are you developing new products? How about making your own mount inhouse , that will save on having to buy sourced parts... How about expanding your business into other accsesory products, and diversifying yourself. Right now, Bipods are the majority of your business (this is an assumption) and you have too much exposure. Develop some new shit that will most likely not be copied or have less incentive to be copied and you will put yourself into a better position. Also look into some different machining and plating methods to help reduce costs. I really don't know the specifics, but take a CPI approach and try to cut waste here and there.... and you can save some money, increase your profit and that will decrease the dollar-cost avg you lose from lost sales.

Doing that would be a much more valuable use of your time than coming here talking about morals and intellectional property rights (that the vasy majority of the world can not give two shits about).
 
The truth hurts doesn't it. Taking a poll to mock me for a statement taken out of context only to cover the fact that your just as guilty as the next guy for the state of this Country. Kudos to you Sir. Keep talking, I have nothing to lose here. Again, if you have nothing to hide why aren't you sharing where someone can get one of these so called PTS bipods? You hire a Chinese company to manufacture "AIRSOFT" BT10 Bipods then claim those who buy them are the reason why this Country is the way it is.
 
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The truth hurts doesn't it. Taking a poll to mock me for a statement taken out of context only to cover the fact that your just as guilty as the next guy for the state of this Country. Kudos to you Sir. Keep talking, I have nothing to lose here. Again, if you have nothing to hide why aren't you sharing where someone can get one of these so called PTS bipods?


Dude, you've figured out the internet and how to troll on a forum, have you really not figured out how to search for something? Do a search if you want to know where to find one. Now move and draw fire.
 
Nothing there. Maybe that's why I'm asking. I understand why you are pissed, he must be your friend or something else.
 
Kasey, In the same vein as Cobra cutter mentioned above. Have you considered making other versions of your product? As an example, I'll use the HOG saddle. Great product that many have but many more can't afford or just won't spend that much for an accessory. Low and behold, they came out with the PIG saddle at a lower price point and made out of different materials and you have a large thread of people buying it now. I don't own a crystal ball but I am fairly certain they will be moving a larger amount of PIG saddles than HOG saddles in the future.

I don't know if there is a way to make another version of the ATLAS at a lower price point without sacrificing quality or your personal values, only you can make those decisions about what you are wiling to put your name on. But if there is a way to make any of your products on a tiered pricing scale, I would think you would generate sales from those customers who otherwise wouldn't or cannot buy the current products due to price. And if you can make a product line at a lower price point, you might even see some of the airsoft crowd start to migrate over as some of those guys have $2000 invested in airsoft guns as it is. Again, I don't know if what I suggested is even feasible but it is food for thought on how to move forward like the guy in the video above stated.
 
Nothing there. Maybe that's why I'm asking. I understand why you are pissed, he must be your friend or something else.

Then suffer in your ignorance if you are unwilling to do something for yourself because the info is out there and easily found. I don't know kasey from Adam and I don't own anything from his company. I do however recognize a troll when I see one. It's people like you who cause a lot of manufacturers and reps to avoid online communities due to the bullshit they have to deal with. SH is lucky to have a lot of direct contact with manufacturers and reps and I'd rather see your ass go somewhere else for good than Kasey or any other manufacturer. If you want to discuss the merits of Kasey's business with him, man the fuck up and call him on the phone. Otherwise STFU.
 
Then suffer in your ignorance if you are unwilling to do something for yourself because the info is out there and easily found. I don't know kasey from Adam and I don't own anything from his company. I do however recognize a troll when I see one. It's people like you who cause a lot of manufacturers and reps to avoid online communities due to the bullshit they have to deal with. SH is lucky to have a lot of direct contact with manufacturers and reps and I'd rather see your ass go somewhere else for good than Kasey or any other manufacturer. If you want to discuss the merits of Kasey's business with him, man the fuck up and call him on the phone. Otherwise STFU.


So because of his status it's OK to for him to insult people for something that he's guilty of himself?

Also I have not used profaniity but in this case GFY.