Hunting with large frame AR

[Jmccracken1214]

I think I’ve decided that an AR 10 will be the best rifle for me to use for hunting since I have three children and the adjustability of the stock makes it so that we could all easily use it without any major changes.
I was going to buy 2 Ruger Americans, so I could use one, and then remove the stock spacer on the other for the kids, but that’s 2 guns, 2 loads, 2 optics..

I was looking at 6.5 semi autos and I like the Daniel defense but $2600-3000 is steep.

Anything I should be eyeing that’s quality and a little cheaper? Maybe a PSA and swap to a better barrel?

Trying to stay 16-18” but leaning 18” for rifle gas system and will be running a can.

 

[tekmann2377]

Look at the Armalites. Palmetto has some of them in the $1300-1500 range. 308 is a better choice than 6.5 from a tuning and reliability standpoint.

If you are going to be using them with kids (especially suppressed) I would consider reduced loads with the 125 SST. They are plenty lethal within 200 yards and have significantly less recoil. They have cycled fine in the AR-10 I tested them in, and this is actually helped by a little more back pressure from the can.

 

[Ronin22]

Patrol style sling and either 6.5 or 708. I've been running a 708 Wilson Combat tactical hunter barrel with success hog hunting canyon ground. Just dial down the charge weights of the published bolt gun data a couple grains to start.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

I see S&W has one for around $1200, but it is a mid length 16”. Not sure how much more softer shooting a rifle gas system is over mid length.

I’ve got a M&p sport 3 ar15 and shoots much better than a $700 rifle should.

 

[SupressYourself]

I would consider looking for a 243 Win or 6mm Creed. They have plenty of kill for deer, hogs, and smaller targets, and will be softer shooting.
You want as long of gas system as possible for the barrel length, and an adjustable gas block.
I shot a 20", rifle gas, 243 AR10 DPMS for years. When it was wore out, I re-barreled to 22", rifle+2 6mm Creed. Both worked very well with a can and adjustable gas block.
I don't know what's available out there with those specs. I would just piece one together, but I understand that's not for everyone...

 

[SupressYourself]

I'll also add... I know it's not what you asked, but I wouldn't overlook running a 6.5 Grendel or 6mm ARC in a small frame AR. I've killed many deer and coyotes with a 6mm Grendel variant. Not one of them told me it wasn't "enough gun".

I guess someone should ask:
- What are you hunting?
- What kind of ranges?
- Why are you considering a large frame AR?

 

[SaxtonPope]

Yeah I came to say the same thing as @SupressYourself , I have built large and small frame ARs and 6 arc is hard to overlook for your use case!
I have two kids, 3 and 5, they only shoot from a tripod but as the get bigger and stronger I can tell you that they’re gonna be able to manage the small frame WAY before my ar10 and for hunting I wouldn’t shoot anything with a .308 or a 6.5 that I wouldn’t be uncomfortable shooting with the 6arc.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I think you are setting yourself up for failure personally.

Bolt gun will be much easier, safer and lighter for them to learn on.

Why would you need different loads for identical guns?

A cheap bolt gun is serviceable as a hunting gun . A cheap Large frame AR is a recipe for disaster for a bunch of reasons.

 

[diggler1833]

My youngest girls are kicking ass with a 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC (my old nighttime pig guns). The adjustability of the AR carbine stock, and softer shooting gas system are a HUGE plus. I would put that as close to unarguable a position as Newton's laws.

You'd definitely want to hunt suppressed with the 18" or shorter barrel... not so much for the recoil, but also for the muzzle blast. Since that is the OP's intent, then great.

Even building a large frame AR with halfway "decent" parts is going to run you $2K these days. That was my intent with my last 6.5CM build, but I ended up closer to $2,500. When I finished, I had almost convinced myself that I should have probably just bought an SP10.

The only thing I might possibly suggest the OP to look into - is that if you're never going to hunt past about 200 yards or so, that a small frame AR in 6 ARC, 6.5 Grendel, or 6.8 SPC is just as effective, and will weigh less, and will have less recoil/blast.

 

[SaxtonPope]

The only thing I might possibly suggest the OP to look into - is that if you're never going to hunt past about 200 yards or so, that a small frame AR in 6 ARC, 6.5 Grendel, or 6.8 SPC is just as effective, and will weigh less, and will have less recoil/blast.

I think this is all good advice, I’d just add that whatever yardage you limit yourself to, I’d apply to 6cm as well. If you can reliably kill at x range with 6cm you should be able to equal that with 6 arc, etc, especially when we’re talking about hunting with kids. My .02

 

[tpepper70]

AR10's get heavy quick. PSA PA10's are pretty decent, but will still be over 10lbs with optic and suppressor. I've had a Ruger SFAR in 308 that shot great and was just over 9lbs with optic and suppressor. I second what the above said. 6ARC, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8SPC are really, really good for deer size game and down. Some people hunt elk etc but that's them. I currently hunt with a 6.5 Grendel that weighs less than 8lbs with a large optic and suppressor. I could shed a pound off just by changing to a different scope. Good luck to ya.

 

[Clayman]

Depending on the distance and game even 5.56 with 77gr tmk will likely get the job done.

Rokslide has an absolutely incredible thread detailing the 77 tmk and some others rounds performance on game ranging from deer, elk, moose, bear, etc.

My friends daughter got drawn for mule deer and I let him borrow a 5.56 16". 50 yard shot, deer basically went 5-10 yards. Just kind of walked in a weird circle and then dropped.

Small entrance, 3" exit. The 77 tmk is pretty awesome.

 

[RTH1800]

I think you are setting yourself up for failure personally.

Bolt gun will be much easier, safer and lighter for them to learn on.

Why would you need different loads for identical guns?

A cheap bolt gun is serviceable as a hunting gun . A cheap Large frame AR is a recipe for disaster for a bunch of reasons.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
This

 

[Jmccracken1214]

My main reason for the large frame and larger round was just more insurance incase the kids didn’t make a perfect shot, I’d rather have a bigger round on target than smaller.

Kids will be at 100-180 yards max, but I have 350-400 yard shots I can make.

The Grendel crosses my mind often, just didn’t seem like on paper, it would be that great passed 100-150 yards. Seems to lose steam quick.

Edit::

Also like the idea of the 6.5CM, ive got more pass through with it. I’ve shot 2 last year with an arc and a 6mm cm, 4 total. No pass through, no blood. Makes me nervous because we are close to a lot of thick woods and tracking a bloodless deer is tough

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Anything more than a 6cm is overkill on deer. Better to teach them how to shoot and how important shot placement is than overkill round from a hard to short platform that is going to end up being a shit show.

A 6 arc , 6cm or .243 bolt gun would be perfect IMO. Can kill everything up to elk at short range and deer out to 500 yards. Light recoil, easy to shoot, very flat trajectory.

Pass through has more to do with shot placement and bullet construction than anything else, especially on thin skin animals like deer. I personally do NOT want pass through. I want energy transferred into animal, not putting small holes in them. If your shot placement is good, the blood trail is almost irrelevant. They are either going to drop or run a few dozen yards and pile up.

 

[SaxtonPope]

My main reason for the large frame and larger round was just more insurance incase the kids didn’t make a perfect shot, I’d rather have a bigger round on target than smaller.

Kids will be at 100-180 yards max, but I have 350-400 yard shots I can make.

The Grendel crosses my mind often, just didn’t seem like on paper, it would be that great passed 100-150 yards. Seems to lose steam quick.

In my experience bullet construction will have a greater influence. All things being equal, with a suitable bullet at the ranges you’re talking about the difference in terminal performance is negligible.
Heck, I hope you build a large AND a small frame AR and a bolt action as well, just because I love rifles and projects, lol.
Having said that, I think you should consider small frame if you want an AR or even a bolt action build, for the kids to hunt with.

 

[RTH1800]

I have guided dozens of kids from age 5-15 on many dozens of deer. All shot my 18” suppressed Mk12 clone off a tripod. 100 % success. Mk 262 77 grain ammo. Shots from 25 to over 450 meters. No issues at all.

 

[Clayman]

I'd recommend checking this out

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-mountain-goat-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/


The cheat sheet link is recommended.

A suppressed 5.56 with 77tmk under 200 is probably all you need imo.

Them flinching on a heavier gun and heavier recoil would likely be worse for shot placement imo.

 

[diggler1833]

My main reason for the large frame and larger round was just more insurance incase the kids didn’t make a perfect shot, I’d rather have a bigger round on target than smaller.

Kids will be at 100-180 yards max, but I have 350-400 yard shots I can make.

The Grendel crosses my mind often, just didn’t seem like on paper, it would be that great passed 100-150 yards. Seems to lose steam quick.

I can assure you that at 300 yards the Grendel is extremely effective. 400 yards is getting to the max of bullet effectiveness though... you're starting to teeter on that 1,800 FPS range depending on barrel length. At 300 with most hunting loads you're still up around 2K FPS and over 1K lb/ft energy.

The hog skull in my avatar was taken with 1 shot from a 6.8 SPC at about 130 yards. He went close to 400lbs.

Your hesitation is understood, but not necessary.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Hell, maybe I should just let them use my 18” heavy barrel DD 556. It shoots my 77 & 75 grain loads very tight. Even shoots federal fusion 62gr under 1”

 

[SaxtonPope]

Absolutely^^^

 

[Jmccracken1214]

I haven’t shot the TMK, just standard 77 smk. And 75 Hornady eld.

Any reason to use one of those loads over the 62gr fusion?

The fusion rounds lack the BC but at 100-180, I don’t think that matters much, the fusions I’ve seen have done massive damage

 

[Clayman]

I haven’t shot the TMK, just standard 77 smk. And 75 Hornady eld.

Any reason to use one of those loads over the 62gr fusion?

The fusion rounds lack the BC but at 100-180, I don’t think that matters much, the fusions I’ve seen have done massive damage

The federal fusions should be good.

There are some pictures from the 75 eld and the federal 62 gr in that thread as well iirc. I think the speer 75gr bonded was also doing good work.

I would definitely use that18" suppressed set up you already have, especially since you know it's a good shooter.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

fusions and 64gr pp put 2 and 4 legged criters down well.

 

[RTH1800]

.

 

[KYAggie]

Sadly 2A Arms got bought out and from what I understand, they are not made anymore, but they use to build extremely light receiver sets and rifles. You might find a used rifle if you look. Google 2A Xanthos 6.5. Below is an old thread where I built one. I still have it and a 308. They are great very light and very soft shooting; a kid could handle it no problem.

POF makes the Revolution in 6.5 and it’s a great gun and use to cost around $2000, but it looks like that price has gone up a lot.

For kids, I would be tempted to build a 6 ARC upper for my AR15 or try 77 TMK’s in a 5.56.

Lightweight 2A Arms Xanthos 6.5 CM Build

First, I want to say this is ALL Breastroker’s fault on M14forum. I had not given the AR10 platform the slightest look of interest because they are as heavy as the M14/M1A and they are not standardized as far as parts go; why bother was how I saw it, so I continued playing with the M14/M1A...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Kickin45]

Factory Hornady 150 SST out of an 18” Faxon
Plenty for hunting. Hit the heart at 550yds

 

[AR shooter]

I had a Savage MSR10 6.5 Creedmoor that would have been a great deer gun for kids. The adjustable stock is a plus. I started my 2 kids and a few others with stocks cut down and put a recoil pad on later when they grow up. With a good rest and they shoot enough to be comfortable with the gun they should be good to go.