I trusted the local gunsmith for my pin and weld

TacticalTaco

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So there is a local guy who came recommended, has good reviews etc. to do a pin and weld job. Below is the end result on my brand new Noveske Afghan Stainless barrel. Not sure if it's totally ruined yet, going to try and get a bore scope in it a look for sugaring and discoloring inside the barrel.

I put about 30 rounds through it, it's holding accuracy thankfully but the integrity of the Barrel is what has me worried now.

There was some excess rocksett glue that dripped from the barrel threads when I had dropped it off to him. He claims a lot of the dark spots near the muzzle device are just burned rocksett.

The only photos I have of the inside are with my phone, luckily no holes or visible bubbling.

Moral of the story: Send your stuff to Arco or D. Wilson
 

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nn8734

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    Pinning and welding is such a barbaric procedure to begin with. That shit looks downright horrible.

    The pin/weld jobs done well that I have seen barely look like anything was done at all.

    Sucks, man - sorry that happened to you.

    Maybe grab another Noveske or similar quality 14.5” barrel, make him pay for it but install it yourself.

    ETA: he also owes you a KAC muzzle device and your $$$ back.
     
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    Hobo Hilton

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    We can take "Good Reviews" and a $1.00 and go buy yourself a cup of coffee....... There is very little "Quality" craftsmanship around any more. Best to ask for a sample of a person's work before obligating yourself.
    And I can do 100% x-ray quality work... For the past 50 years there was a welding test at the gate....
     

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    LuvDog

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    Wow…. The pin and welds that I have, you can’t even see that work was done
     

    Darayavaus

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    that looks like the expert craftsmanship of one of the all-knowing experts over on the LRH forum.

    unfortunately this guy will probably tell you to go F yourself and try to get your money back from him.
     
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    TacticalTaco

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    This was a group using AE 223 at 25 yards, so the accuracy seems to be okay. What are you guys thoughts on this? Do you think it could only be some cosmetic damage on the outside or should the whole thing be thrown away?
     

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    nn8734

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    This was a group using AE 223 at 25 yards, so the accuracy seems to be okay. What are you guys thoughts on this? Do you think it could only be some cosmetic damage on the outside or should the whole thing be thrown away?
    Id have it cleaned up at the very least because it would bother the shit out of me every time i looked at it but if it functions/performs ok then keep it.

    In reality id replace the barrel and muzzle device with new but that’s just me.

    What are your next steps with getting something done about it with the mystery local gunsmith “with great reviews” who let that abomination leave his shop like that?
     

    hafejd30

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    This awesome smith doesn’t happen to be named “Mark” by chance??? 😁
     

    TacticalTaco

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    Id have it cleaned up at the very least because it would bother the shit out of me every time i looked at it but if it functions/performs ok then keep it.

    In reality id replace the barrel and muzzle device with new but that’s just me.

    What are your next steps with getting something done about it with the mystery local gunsmith “with great reviews” who let that abomination leave his shop like that?

    The only reason I'm not putting his name and shop out on blast is because he was a cordial and decent guy when I was working with him, so I would like to try to resolve anything before putting his name out there.

    I'm going to talk to him about refunding the cost of the work done and probably a new brake.

    If I can clean up the Cosmetics on the outside and it still functions I'm not going through all of the drama to get a new $450 Barrel, however if it comes down to the barrel being ruined I'll pursue the full amount.
     
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    hafejd30

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    Just curious,

    What’s up with the hand guard? Looks cut out for the weld job?
     

    Max

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  • This was a group using AE 223 at 25 yards, so the accuracy seems to be okay. What are you guys thoughts on this? Do you think it could only be some cosmetic damage on the outside or should the whole thing be thrown away?
    I don’t really feel 25 yards tells you much. If I am doing my math right, triple the size of that group for 100. But even that doesn't tell the “flight” and stability story. Shoot it at 100 and see how it does.
     

    rjacobs

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    Is that even a tig weld or is that a piece of mig wire sticking out? Or a piece of the, way to long, pin?

    And why was there even rocksett on it at all? That shit should have been sparkling clean...

    Welding dirty metal is a fools errand IMO... and the results speak as such.
     

    TacticalTaco

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    Just curious,

    What’s up with the hand guard? Looks cut out for the weld job?
    It's just how the URX 3.1 looks

    I don’t really feel 25 yards tells you much. If I am doing my math right, triple the size of that group for 100. But even that doesn't tell the “flight” and stability story. Shoot it at 100 and see how it does.
    Noted. I'll try some 100-200 yard groups over the weekend.
     
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    nn8734

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    The only reason I'm not putting his name and Shop out on blast is he was very cordial and was a decent guy when I was working with him, so I would like to try to resolve anything before putting his name out there.

    I'm going to talk to him about refunding the cost of the work done and probably a new brake.

    If I can clean up the Cosmetics on the outside and it still functions I'm not going through all of the drama to get a new $450 Barrel, however if it comes down to the barrel being ruined I'll pursue the full amount.
    Yea, hope he does something for you otherwise out the fucker. I’m cordial too (sometimes) but I’d expect to be shot dead if I did that kind of work and didn’t make the customer whole.

    If he supplies you a new KAC flash hider, hopefully you can find someone else in your area to competently install/re-pin and weld it.

    Any issues with mounting your kac can onto it?
     
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    TacticalTaco

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    Yea, hope he does something for you otherwise out the fucker. I’m cordial too (sometimes) but I’d expect to be shot dead if I did that kind of work and didn’t make the customer whole.

    If he supplies you a new KAC flash hider, hopefully you can find someone else in your area to competently install/re-pin and weld it.

    Any issues with mounting your kac can onto it?
    Oh, he welded the pin through the bottom gas port so that's out of the question 😭. I don't shoot suppressed but yea.
     

    sam4886

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    He may be a nice guy and a gunsmith but he sure as hell isn't a welder, and should know his limits. If he is as cordial as you're saying he should be willing to replace all your shit he broke. Doesn't matter if it shoots or not, that's not a pin/weld. That's a booger that can't be fixed unless the brake and barrel are replaced, that's assuming he did it right and drilled the pin into the barrel threads a little.

    I sure hope it is the LRH guy and you post this same thing over there. Those old fudds getting worked up really brightens my day.
     

    nn8734

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    Oh, he welded the pin through the bottom gas port so that's out of the question 😭. I don't shoot suppressed but yea.
    He owes you the following:

    1) New Noveske Afghan SS barrel
    2) New Knights Armament 5.56 QDC brake
    3) Reimbursement of funds paid for his shit work

    Others may see it differently but that's what I feel would make me whole if I was in your shoes.
     

    Simonsza1

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    I think he just hit it with a mig. If he tig welded that thing he has no clue. I do think a lot of the black is the crusted up rockset, which if he had a clue would have all been cleaned up before welding. Like someone else noted welding dirty metal. In all honesty it’s probably totally fine and will have zero effects on your barrel besides the cosmetic blunder you will have to always look at unless he takes care of it.
     
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    whatsupdoc

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    I have done it with a MIG machine and it comes out excellent, but I protected the entire area from spatter and set the machine up for a short hot blast.

    The barrel is most likely fine it just looks like and is a shit amateur job.

    This is like you brought your car to a body shop for a paint job and they used a mop to paint it.
     

    BuildingConceptsllc

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    Want to know the difference between him and a so called "good one"?

    Some sanding and paint.
    Well, sanding or something would be better than that crap, but no, the good ones do it and you can't even tell it was done. Ive watched my buddy to it at his gun shop many times, and it's a very quick small thing. That guy obviously doesn't know what he's doing, he went at least twice at it with an actual bead. Amature hour stuff right there.
     
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    SmartDonkey

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    Very poor work..... BUT- clean the shit off of it, polish it, put some coating or paint on it and shoot it is probably the best plan. What did he charge you to do it? With zero prep and the end product it couldn't have been more than a few bucks-- and you are thinking that he will buy you a new barrel and flash hider? Good luck with that one.

    Not saying it's right but in a situation like this- well- remember the Jim Carrey rant in Liar Liar? Usually pretty sage advice.
     
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    shoobe01

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    Agree it's just messy. 90% of that is poor work practices (not cleaning enough, not protecting nearby materials, etc), but it's a small weld that isn't outside the norm for un-cleaned-up welds, so doesn't look (with what can be seen) like it would damage anything.

    But that he also fucked up the other 10%, not cleaning it up after is crazy. I'd ask if he wants to fix it as above (get the parts, someone else does it), but if not then file it all clean and refinish it (or have a friend you trust with sandpaper and hand files do it).

    And yeah, if you won't publicize it broad, DO share this work with all local friends so they know to at least watch out closely, use caution with what he's brought if he's the only choice locally. I know there are fewer all the time, and some regions have poor choices in smiths so there can be limits to choice.
     

    MK20

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    Oh, he welded the pin through the bottom gas port so that's out of the question 😭. I don't shoot suppressed but yea.

    If he welded your gas block pin then he owes you a barrel, muzzle device, and gas block. If he doesn't want to pay up, destroy his reputation. Welding a gas block pin is retarded. Post his name here so no one else has to go through what you went through. It's a public duty.
     

    chevy_man

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    Oh, he welded the pin through the bottom gas port so that's out of the question 😭. I don't shoot suppressed but yea.

    Ok, so he went full bubba.

    My initial thoughts were "he's just doing this quick and cheap under the impression you were doing the finish work".

    Now it's more like "he left it to the apprentice that started Monday, and he wants to leave to drink beer but was told this needed done today".
     

    E. Bryant

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    Want to know the difference between him and a so called "good one"?

    Some sanding and paint.

    Uh, no. There are plenty of gunsmiths (both amateur and pro) who can do this simple task without the need to cover up their incompetency after the fact.

    I mean, shit, even I can do this without making a mess, and nowadays I only pick up my TIG torch once every 1-2 months (usually for stuff like this, gluing back together a buddy's dirt bike exhaust, etc.). Someone who actually knows their shit should be able to do it drunk and blindfolded.
     

    TacticalTaco

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    You went and picked this up from the smith without question?

    I would have settled this before I walked out the door, regardless of how it shot.

    Yeah, shame on me. Admittedly I'm extremely new to anything under a 16" barrel and dealing with the NFA rules, so without reference I thought maybe it was just a cosmetic error I can clean up. I took his word that all of the dark spots on the barrel were from the rocksett being burned. After looking at and purchasing a proper pin and weld upper, I'm only now seeing how bad this really is.
     

    TacticalDillhole

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    Yeah, shame on me. Admittedly I'm extremely new to anything under a 16" barrel and dealing with the NFA rules, so without reference I thought maybe it was just a cosmetic error I can clean up. I took his word that all of the dark spots on the barrel were from the rocksett being burned. After looking at and purchasing a proper pin and weld upper, I'm only now seeing how bad this really is.
    What’s the gas system? Mid or carbine? Cut it off. Rethreaf the barrel and do a form 1 and sbr the lower. Don’t use the upper until the form 1 is approved
     

    mcameron

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    ...why the fuck is he putting rockset on a muzzle brake he is welding on?....


    fuck, a pin and weld is one of the easiest gunsmithing job you can do.....put brake on, drill through brake and slightly into barrel, drop in pin, quick zap with a tig torch (usually dont even need filler).....done.

    even with rockset, you should not be putting enough heat into it to burn it


    if your pin weld doesnt look like this...your smith is a fucking hack.
    pinandweld2-1.jpg