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I trusted the local gunsmith for my pin and weld

This is like you brought your car to a body shop for a paint job and they used a mop to paint it.

Or a case of this
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I don't weld, but would have figured out a way to do it better than he did..........Sheeesh, that is sheer butchery and on such an expensive rifle.

What a flipping shame.

I respect your decision not to post his name publicly too.
 
I've seen better welds done with a coat hanger on an old stick welder while drunk.

One light tac is all that was needed over the pin or silver solder it.
 
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What did you say to the gunsmith when you picked it up ? What was his reply ? These kind of things should be addressed right at the shop the moment you picked it up and inspected the rifle. MD
 
Not completely ruined. Looks bad, but can be fixed. Any competent machinist can clean that up in the lathe. It might need a bit more heliarc weld in a spot or two. Sometimes it is hard to find the Right Guy to get something done. More often than not it winds up being Me, but it took years of BooBoos to figure that out. Snatch that barrel out and go find that guy. He is probably right around there in your community and would love to help you out.
 
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Not completely ruined. Looks bad, but can be fixed. Any competent machinist can clean that up in the lathe. It might need a bit more heliarc weld in a spot or two. Sometimes it is hard to find the Right Guy to get something done. More often than not it winds up being Me, but it took years of BooBoos to figure that out. Snatch that barrel out and go find that guy. He is probably right around there in your community and would love to help you out.
I don’t think that guy can fix his welded up gas port issue.
 
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So there is a local guy who came recommended, has good reviews etc. to do a pin and weld job. Below is the end result on my brand new Noveske Afghan Stainless barrel. Not sure if it's totally ruined yet, going to try and get a bore scope in it a look for sugaring and discoloring inside the barrel.

I put about 30 rounds through it, it's holding accuracy thankfully but the integrity of the Barrel is what has me worried now.

There was some excess rocksett glue that dripped from the barrel threads when I had dropped it off to him. He claims a lot of the dark spots near the muzzle device are just burned rocksett.

The only photos I have of the inside are with my phone, luckily no holes or visible bubbling.

Moral of the story: Send your stuff to Arco or D. Wilson
What exactly did you pay him to do? Looking at the photos, did he do all the work seen in the photos? If so the weld and grinding/shaping doesn't look all that bad. All welding that isn't cleaned up looks similar. If he used gas slag will be on it as well.

"Finishing" is another story, did you pay him to refinish the muzzle device and barrel?

Are you the one who put Rocksett on the threads and then torqued it down and then took it to him in that condition and said "pin and weld it?" Rocksett should have never been used. I would have never expected a customer to have used Rocksett on a muzzle device/barrel he/she wanted pinned and welded. Did he even know there was Rocksett on the threads, or did he find out after he applied heat and it dripped down onto the barrel? Getting rid of the stuff is time consuming and wouldn't be part of a standard charge for pin and welding.

Either would refinishing. Refinishing would normally include cleaning up the part, removal of old finish, and refinishing. If the person doing the refinishing sees something that will take more time or not turn out right he'll call it to your attention and give you a quote for the extra work. Refinished properly you'd never know there was a problem.

Looking at this I suspect there is a gap between the gunsmith and the customer in what is being paid for and what you expected. Expectations need to be managed by both parties. At this point I'd take it to someone who can clean it up and reapply the desired finish, or use this misunderstanding 5o upgrade your finish.

Good luck with this.
 
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So there is a local guy who came recommended, has good reviews etc. to do a pin and weld job. Below is the end result on my brand new Noveske Afghan Stainless barrel. Not sure if it's totally ruined yet, going to try and get a bore scope in it a look for sugaring and discoloring inside the barrel.

I put about 30 rounds through it, it's holding accuracy thankfully but the integrity of the Barrel is what has me worried now.

There was some excess rocksett glue that dripped from the barrel threads when I had dropped it off to him. He claims a lot of the dark spots near the muzzle device are just burned rocksett.

The only photos I have of the inside are with my phone, luckily no holes or visible bubbling.

Moral of the story: Send your stuff to Arco or D. Wilson
Holy crap reminds me of a similar situation. I trusted a local guy ONCE. He ruined my grandfathers shotgun. I got my money back after being a total Karen but it didnt salvage my grandfathers shotgun. Sorry this happened to you. ☹️
Theres a special place in hell for incompetence like this.
 
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Didnt t
Holy crap reminds me of a similar situation. I trusted a local guy ONCE. He ruined my grandfathers shotgun. I got my money back after being a total Karen but it didnt salvage my grandfathers shotgun. Sorry this happened to you. ☹️
Theres a special place in hell for incompetence like this.
didnt think it would be hard to mount a red dot...
 

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So there is a local guy who came recommended, has good reviews etc. to do a pin and weld job. Below is the end result on my brand new Noveske Afghan Stainless barrel. Not sure if it's totally ruined yet, going to try and get a bore scope in it a look for sugaring and discoloring inside the barrel.

I put about 30 rounds through it, it's holding accuracy thankfully but the integrity of the Barrel is what has me worried now.

There was some excess rocksett glue that dripped from the barrel threads when I had dropped it off to him. He claims a lot of the dark spots near the muzzle device are just burned rocksett.

The only photos I have of the inside are with my phone, luckily no holes or visible bubbling.

Moral of the story: Send your stuff to Arco or D. Wilson
I am absolutely amazed that any gunsmith would let that garbage leave their shop.

And you are doing no one a favor by not revealing his identity. If he was willing to take your money and let that out the door,. then he was willing to have his name attached to the work. If he didn't want his name attached to it in public, then he should have not let it leave his shop.
 
So there is a local guy who came recommended, has good reviews etc. to do a pin and weld job. Below is the end result on my brand new Noveske Afghan Stainless barrel. Not sure if it's totally ruined yet, going to try and get a bore scope in it a look for sugaring and discoloring inside the barrel.

I put about 30 rounds through it, it's holding accuracy thankfully but the integrity of the Barrel is what has me worried now.

There was some excess rocksett glue that dripped from the barrel threads when I had dropped it off to him. He claims a lot of the dark spots near the muzzle device are just burned rocksett.

The only photos I have of the inside are with my phone, luckily no holes or visible bubbling.

Moral of the story: Send your stuff to Arco or D. Wilson
Here's my guy. Did fantastic.

@flyfisherman246 Is the fucking man. Misery Custom Rifles


14.5 Bartlein 223 wylde pin/weld Surefire SFMB. USMC sniper turned machinist/gunsmiff. Did some contractor shit with him overseas. Much Solid. So tactical. More gooder

Screenshot_20211124-230113_Gallery.jpg
20211122_223017.jpg
 
@TacticalTaco

cosmetic damage. Shoot the snot out of the barrel and enjoy it. Agreed no more work from that gunsmith. It looks shitty but I doubt he actually owes you a new barrel. And it is not really worth the cost of having the barrel cut, re-threaded, form 1 tax stamp, etc. To me that sounds like a separate rifle project.
 
Is that even a tig weld or is that a piece of mig wire sticking out? Or a piece of the, way to long, pin?

And why was there even rocksett on it at all? That shit should have been sparkling clean...

Welding dirty metal is a fools errand IMO... and the results speak as such.
Looks like a mig weld, he must of not known just to fill the hole for about a second. Its just a pin job , your not welding on an axle bracket.
 
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Very poor work..... BUT- clean the shit off of it, polish it, put some coating or paint on it and shoot it is probably the best plan. What did he charge you to do it? With zero prep and the end product it couldn't have been more than a few bucks-- and you are thinking that he will buy you a new barrel and flash hider? Good luck with that one.

Not saying it's right but in a situation like this- well- remember the Jim Carrey rant in Liar Liar? Usually pretty sage advice.
Huh..?? He ranted throughout the entire move..
 
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This is one of mine. Work done at Taran Tactical on my TR1 ultralight. To the OP, that guy owes you a refund, a new barrel, and a new brake. If he is truly a nice guy, he shouldn’t even question it.
 
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What exactly did you pay him to do? Looking at the photos, did he do all the work seen in the photos? If so the weld and grinding/shaping doesn't look all that bad. All welding that isn't cleaned up looks similar. If he used gas slag will be on it as well.

"Finishing" is another story, did you pay him to refinish the muzzle device and barrel?

Are you the one who put Rocksett on the threads and then torqued it down and then took it to him in that condition and said "pin and weld it?" Rocksett should have never been used. I would have never expected a customer to have used Rocksett on a muzzle device/barrel he/she wanted pinned and welded. Did he even know there was Rocksett on the threads, or did he find out after he applied heat and it dripped down onto the barrel? Getting rid of the stuff is time consuming and wouldn't be part of a standard charge for pin and welding.

Either would refinishing. Refinishing would normally include cleaning up the part, removal of old finish, and refinishing. If the person doing the refinishing sees something that will take more time or not turn out right he'll call it to your attention and give you a quote for the extra work. Refinished properly you'd never know there was a problem.

Looking at this I suspect there is a gap between the gunsmith and the customer in what is being paid for and what you expected. Expectations need to be managed by both parties. At this point I'd take it to someone who can clean it up and reapply the desired finish, or use this misunderstanding 5o upgrade your finish.

Good luck with this.

To clarify, there is a gas relief port on the bottom of the muzzle brake to be used with the KAC can. The gas port on the barrel was never touched.

I agree however, a lot of this is on me for not knowing more about pin and weld jobs before trusting someone with my equipment. Lesson learned the hard way.
 
That’s shit work…no doubt about it.

Before I started doing silver solder (and before I had my 4 SBR’d lower, LoL), I had one pinned, but the smith broke a drill bit in the flash hider (OG AAC 51T muzzle device…very hard metal) and when he re-drilled, he slightly egged out the hole. The TIG spot pretty much covered it, but you could see it wasn’t perfectly round if you looked closely. I honestly wouldn’t have noticed if he didn’t point it out.

When I went to pick it up he said “no charge” and if I wasn’t happy he’d buy that one from me / pay for a new barrel and muzzle device. It shot just fine though, and that gun was getting a rattle can paint job anyway, so I told him no worries, and that I appreciated his integrity.

edit: found a pic, and it’s pretty low resolution, but even if it wasn’t I don’t think you’d see the blemish under the paint. I know where it is though…look for that brighter ‘spot’ in the tan stripe on the bottom of the flash hider, the pin is in the middle of that little dark stripe under that:

i-Nz8Qs7B.jpg

edit two: just found another. Ironically, the paint’s worn off from the heat and carbon blast from shooting suppressed (my hearing’s bad enough as it is, so I shoot almost 100% suppressed to save what I have)…still don’t notice the blemish unless you’re really looking for it:

i-GzFpPqL.jpg


That barrel’s still going strong on one of my brother’s ARs now. On it’s second paint scheme, and you still don’t notice the less than perfect spot weld under the paint.

I’d look at it this way, he should at least return what you paid for that hack work, but if it shoots well, don’t sweat it. Clean up the exterior with a wire wheel and paint it…or Cerakote the whole thing if you want it to look spiffy. To me they’re tools…and pretty much all the tools I actually use for work have scratches or wear marks. Well, not my reloading gear or optics, but yeah…I think you get the idea.

I usually try to get a ding or scratch on my ARs right away…takes the pressure off so I don’t sweat actually using them out in the brush. If this is a safe queen/trophy gun I’d raise holy hell…and yes I have some of those too…but if it’s a gun you plan to use in the field, I wouldn’t lose sleep over cosmetic blemishes.

Edit: I just looked closer at pic #3… He clearly used way too much heat, but as long as it shoots fine, tell him to cover the cost of Cerakoting the whole thing and you should be gtg.
 
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First pin weld job I'd done and I've never taken a welding class. I was pissed that there was some contamination in it. Could have massaged it, but I like it to be shallow enough to lightly grind and remove the accessory in the future.
This gun shot sub 3/4 moa at 100 w/ a 14.5" barrel after the pin job.

i-6wHRjJJ-XL.jpg
 
Ouch! That bites, no need to get heat in the barrel at all. Shouldn't need any more than this.

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Off topic, but a muzzle device. Yours made me think of it.

Wasn’t it sig that used to have that 3 prong that rang like a tuning fork. Shit was annoying and loud. Hopefully yours doesn’t do that.
 
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To clarify, there is a gas relief port on the bottom of the muzzle brake to be used with the KAC can. The gas port on the barrel was never touched.

I agree however, a lot of this is on me for not knowing more about pin and weld jobs before trusting someone with my equipment. Lesson learned the hard way.
Yeah good luck ever getting that atrocity off there to ever replace the gas block... He should definitely be replacing everything. That "gunsmith" is a joke.
 
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Yeah good luck ever getting that atrocity off there to ever replace the gas block... He should definitely be replacing everything. That "gunsmith" is a joke.
Didn't even think of that. Christ.
 
Off topic, but a muzzle device. Yours made me think of it.

Wasn’t it sig that used to have that 3 prong that rang like a tuning fork. Shit was annoying and loud. Hopefully yours doesn’t do that.
ACC 3 prong was the first. Sig also had the problem many years later but on the MPX. it wasn't as bad though still annoying.
 
ACC 3 prong was the first. Sig also had the problem many years later but on the MPX. it wasn't as bad though still annoying.
That's what it was.

I got a free MPX with arm brace and sold it, because I'm stupid. Still regret that.
 
I've learned the hard way myself on using local guys with great reviews...This was a "bedding" job I had done by a local builder. Super nice guy, had a few friends that recommended him, but he completely fucked up this stock. Sent it to SAC and they fixed it up right for me. I never did mention it to the first guy, not sure why. It's just a shame people do "work" like this and think it's acceptable. Before and after pics...
IMG_9006
IMG_9007
IMG_9819
IMG_9820
 
Those two bedding jobs look exactly the same, what are you complaining about lol😂😂😂
 
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Did you change actions from first to second bedding job? Those weren't the same rifle action.
Yes actually I did, the same guy that did the bedding job had put together a barreled action for me and chambered the barrel. I was pretty disgusted with the bedding job I ended up selling the barreled action, even though his machine work looked pretty good and the rifle shot pretty well, I just didnt want to pursue the project anymore. The stock was a sentimental piece, was a friend of mine's that passed. Started with a fresh barreled action and sent it all to SAC and they re-bedded to the new action.
 
Would 100% pass visual. Just to be sure johny law doesnt cut your barrel open and fail your weld you should probably turn it in at the next gun buy back.
Have you ever actually soldered anything? I doubt it based on your comments.

1) You can't just melt some solder and "drip some silver solder on the hole". It doesn't work that way. Both the solder AND the metal being bonded must be hot to have the solder flow. What you are suggesting will result in a cold joint. That is, a blob of somewhat conformed solder sitting on top of the pin and hole. It won't be bonded, and it won't stay in place. And it won't fool anyone.

2) Solder doesn't look like a weld. Not even a little bit. You would not fool me, or anyone else that has any clue what they are looking at. And this "drip some silver solder" garbage DEFINITELY would not look like a weld. It would look like monkey snot.

3) The only way to get the solder to flow and actually hold the pin in place is to heat everything up above the solder eutectic point. Once you do that, it will flow around the pin, into the hole, and into the threads. Once solder is in the threads, the only way to remove it is to heat it all up again. If you are going to do all of that, then why even bother with the pin in the first place? Just use the other ATF-legal method and solder the device to the barrel, without the pin.



You strike me as one of those dudes who just can't do things the right way. You always have to do something outside of the rules, just to show the Jack-Booted Thugs that they don't really own you. Or some such silliness. You think all this makes you somehow cool and hip. A real rebel. It doesn't.

There are plenty of bullshit things that go on in this society. All of us on here have issues that, some day, will be worth us taking a stand and risking the consequences, because the demands put on us by the authoritarians are so egregious and oppressive. A pin and weld barrel is not one of them.

If faking a pin and weld barrel is how you want to demonstrate to the world that you are a true individualist, a red-blooded American, a real-life rebel without a cause, you go right ahead with your bad self. But there are people on here trying to learn something, people that are new to firearms and don't really know the full legalities of what is being said and discussed. So do us all a favor and stop passing out stupid, ill-informed. uneducated advice that we should all commit felonies over something as lame as a pin and weld barrel. Pick a better fight.
 
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You actually CAN just simply drip some solder on there if you want.
It literally is physically possible.
 
Only if a gravitational field exists.
Good thing we're on planet earth which just so happens to have a gravitational field.

Cool speech, to each his own.

I actually braze dissimilar metals as part of my job and have pin and welded several barrels both the correct way and not so correct way. Its a joke, the whole thing is a joke.

Your level of compliance of some arbitrary rule depends on the quality of your weld job?

Whos checking it? How are they checking it? Why are they checking it?
 
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Good thing we're on planet earth which just so happens to have a gravitational field.

Cool speech, to each his own.

I actually braze dissimilar metals as part of my job and have pin and welded several barrels both the correct way and not so correct way. Its a joke, the whole thing is a joke.

Your level of compliance of some arbitrary rule depends on the quality of your weld job?

Whos checking it? How are they checking it? Why are they checking it?
There is no difference in what you are recommending and what some knuckleheads telling others to go ahead and recore their own suppressors, who is going to know ? Just wrong and for any new guys trying to find good info, this crap sure is not it.
 
There is no difference in what you are recommending and what some knuckleheads telling others to go ahead and recore their own suppressors, who is going to know ? Just wrong and for any new guys trying to find good info, this crap sure is not it.
There actually is a difference between dripping silver solder and recoring a suppressor.
Literally two different things.
 
There is no difference in what you are recommending and what some knuckleheads telling others to go ahead and recore their own suppressors, who is going to know ? Just wrong and for any new guys trying to find good info, this crap sure is not it.

What part of what Im talking about is not exactly compliant?
 
There is no difference in what you are recommending and what some knuckleheads telling others to go ahead and recore their own suppressors, who is going to know ? Just wrong and for any new guys trying to find good info, this crap sure is not it.
The core isn't the suppressor (relevant serialized part). The tube is. So as long as you don't mess with the tube you're legal. Otherwise companies like Ecco machine would be illegal which they're not.
Ignore. I was wrong.
 
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I've learned the hard way myself on using local guys with great reviews...This was a "bedding" job I had done by a local builder. Super nice guy, had a few friends that recommended him, but he completely fucked up this stock. Sent it to SAC and they fixed it up right for me. I never did mention it to the first guy, not sure why. It's just a shame people do "work" like this and think it's acceptable. Before and after pics...
IMG_9006
IMG_9007
IMG_9819
IMG_9820
surely accuracy before was phenomenal
 
Actually Silver soldering muzzle brake to the barrel is also legal.
 
The core isn't the suppressor (relevant serialized part). The tube is. So as long as you don't mess with the tube you're legal. Otherwise companies like Ecco machine would be illegal which they're not.
Wrong. You CAN NOT replace ANYTHING inside your suppressor; without an SOT doing the work. Whether F1 or F4, same applies. Distal end caps are gray area, but legal; and mounts/proximal end caps have been labeled as "not suppressor parts". Adding or changing any material inside the can is 100% illegal.

As far as the tube goes; even an SOT can't REPLACE it, without a new stamp. Only chop it down, and salvage what they can. Engraving needs to stay/be intact

Ecco Machine is a legit 02/07/SOT. What he does is totally legal; shame on you for suggesting his work is not. He's an upstanding member of the shooting community

Edit: @LeftyJason we might be saying the same thing; now that I've reread it 3 times......lol
 
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