And then when you finally finish you have to market it in a EXTREMELY competitive market. And what's worse is, you can have a better mouse trap but without the marketing...
"I wish they made a ______?"
- Thread starter TexasTightwad
- Start date
And then when you finally finish you have to market it in a EXTREMELY competitive market. And what's worse is, you can have a better mouse trap but without the marketing...
Yeah, certainly does take a lot of trial and error to make most things. I am still working on an initial design, but if I can get one that at least looks good on paper I plan on buying/making test equipment to objectively find out what works. So many companies make muzzle brakes based on "that would look cool." I really love the tests that Cal Zant did for precisionrifleblog.com, because they show precicely what the brakes do. Even on the very best brake in his recoil reduction test, the company that makes it still slightly lies about percent reduction (they have had 3 years since that was published to correct their numbers). Many of the other brakes don't even come close to their claimed numbers.
I would want to get a testing setup similar to Cal's and be able to say my brake is the best because I tested and redesigned and tested and redesigned until it was the best, and then show the data to prove it.
I have lots of patience to make it through frustrations, and while I don't have a fortune, I am very frugal and have managed to save $110k (I'm 27). That is not enough to make my own machine shop, but I think it is enough to do everything else and partner with a shop for the manufacturing.
I would want to get a testing setup similar to Cal's and be able to say my brake is the best because I tested and redesigned and tested and redesigned until it was the best, and then show the data to prove it.
I have lots of patience to make it through frustrations, and while I don't have a fortune, I am very frugal and have managed to save $110k (I'm 27). That is not enough to make my own machine shop, but I think it is enough to do everything else and partner with a shop for the manufacturing.
drug dealer?
porn star?
lottery winner?
union boss?
....or did you just do the smart thing and go into a skilled trade and skip college so you didnt start off life in crippling debt......
I am a machinist. I did community college while I was working. I have no debt whatsoever, but I do have two associates degrees in machine technology and music. And my parents did not pay for the college. I got scholorships and got on with a company that would pay for what I had left of the machine technology degree.
Enjoy looking at your savings, once you start getting into business for yourself, especially manufacturing & marketing, you might find it's some time before you once again have those same savings levels. Starting out a business is a whole lot of paying out before much starts coming in.
I fully expect that. I am a patient man. Are you speaking from personal experience?
Q
QuickNDirty
Guest
I also went to bible college. No gun bunnies!
Man, you gotta have beautiful women showing off your products. Don't you watch the news?
If you don't want to drink while backpacking switch to wool baselayers. The smart wool phd that has silver in it supposedly, is great. Way better than synthetics.
I'm a machinist also and you can get a couple decent used machines, tooling, and fusion 360 for well under 100K. Make some chips in the garage and start testing designs.
I don't have a garage, so the cost of some sort of shop space would have to be factored in. I think I would do better to start out with someone manufacturing for me. Think of them as a business partner that owns machines. Yes, they get a cut of the profit, but they are also bringing a lot of value and would make my capitol go farther. At any point I could "buy out" my "partner" if I have enough money to buy buy everything necessary for manufacture. If I don't have that much left, then I would have run out of money in the first place if I had tried to do it on my own.
Some other costs to consider are test equipment, buying competitors' brakes to test, advertising, travel and booth at trade shows, creation of a website, a small amount of warehouse type space, travel to meet with prospective distributers, travel to meet with firearms manufacturers to convince them to include the brake on their rifles OEM, and goodwill.
I plan on getting into PRS , and I could offer my brakes as prizes for competitions around the country. The best kind of advertising is word-of-mouth, but it is often the hardest to come by.
You are not going to create a successful company making brakes.
Every Tom, dick and billy bob with a larthe are making brakes..... and doing it cheaper than you can.
Find a market that no one is covering and start out in that.
Don’t try to break into a market that is already over saturated......especially when what you are going to offer is not going to do anything. Drastically better than anyone else
Every Tom, dick and billy bob with a larthe are making brakes..... and doing it cheaper than you can.
Find a market that no one is covering and start out in that.
Don’t try to break into a market that is already over saturated......especially when what you are going to offer is not going to do anything. Drastically better than anyone else
Why would they be able to do it cheaper? And if they are continuing to make brakes, wouldn't that indicate that they are making a profit? I would love to find a brand new market that no one else is in, but that is a unicorn hunt. Most companies break into an existing market, and do so by bringing something that customers will find more appealing than the current offerings. There were lots of people making suppressors when AAC was founded, but they took it up a notch and carved out their share of the market.
I believe that my idea for a brake would be drastically better than current offerings. But like I said before, I can't tell particulars until I get a provisional patent filed.
They are doing it cheaper because they already have manufacturing up and running..... and their machines are already paid off.
And they are making a profit because they are making more than just brakes.
And those small operations that are making just brakes have already beaten you to the market and established themselves when the market was smaller than it is now.
Also what makes you so sure your design is vastly superior?
Have you done any engineering?.... built and tested prototypes?..... or just drawn up something that looks cool?
And they are making a profit because they are making more than just brakes.
And those small operations that are making just brakes have already beaten you to the market and established themselves when the market was smaller than it is now.
Also what makes you so sure your design is vastly superior?
Have you done any engineering?.... built and tested prototypes?..... or just drawn up something that looks cool?
If I use someone else to manufacture, they will already have machines that are running and paid off. Sure, they will take a part of the profit.
Say company X sells a $100 brake and makes $50 profit on each brake they sell. If I sold a $100 brake and made $30 on each brake I sold (because my manufacturer is taking $20 above their costs per piece), I would still be making a profit. Not as much as company X, but still a profit. So yeah, starting off I would probably be making less profit than competitors.
It does not make sense to say they are making a profit beause they are making more than just brakes. If I was making brakes and pistols, and I was making no profit or losing money on the brakes but making a profit on the pistols, guess what I would stop selling?
You are right that breaking into a market with lots of competitors will be hard. I might even fail. But that is a risk that every business owner must face.
No, no prototypes yet. I just got the idea about 2 days ago. I don't even have something that looks cool yet! I just have a design feature that, as long as I can implement it, will improve performance. Once again, I cannot give particulars.
I need to work on designs, and once I figure out which would be the best candidate to start with, I will get it into design software, file a provisional patent, have a shop prototype it, and begin testing.
I appreciate your comments, because they are helping me to evaluate possible obstacles.
If you are outsourcing the production to a machine shop, they do Not need to be a "Partner" you are simply contracting them to produce an item to exact specs & design for a set price you and them agree on. They do it all the time. Trying to have them as "partners" will just lead you to the poorhouse quickly.
If you are going to be making muzzle brakes, here are a couple thoughts.
It needs to have minimal to no measurable effect on POI as compared to it not being on.
It needs to be more effective than your competition
It needs to produce less noise than the competition
It needs to produce less muzzle blast to the shooter / bystanders
Significant weight savings are always a plus
Pick a few of those and it would help.
It needs to have minimal to no measurable effect on POI as compared to it not being on.
It needs to be more effective than your competition
It needs to produce less noise than the competition
It needs to produce less muzzle blast to the shooter / bystanders
Significant weight savings are always a plus
Pick a few of those and it would help.
In my opinion the most important aspect of a muzzle brake is reducing muzzle movement, followed very closely by a reduction in recoil. A muzzle that does not move not only allows for faster follow-up shots, but allows your optics to stay on target so you can see where your shot impacted. If you made a bad windage call, for instance, and can see your bullet impacted 2 mils left of your point of aim, you could adjust by 2 mils and be on target for the rest od your shots. If you can't see the impact, all you know is that you missed.
Brakes that are most effective at recoil reduction must direct gasses back toward the shooter. Think of it like a rocket sending propellants rearward in order to thrust foreward. To stop some of the rifle's rearward motion (recoil) the brake sends gasses rearward causing foreward thrust.
When the gasses go rearward, it increases felt blast and sound levels. But those things don't effect how the rifle shoots, and so I consider them a lesser priority. To me shot performance comes first. So I would only try to reduce sound and blast if I can do so without sacrificing performance. If your top priorities are reducing blast and sound, no muzzle brake can compete with a suppressor, but a suppressor will not reduce muzzle movement and is limited on how much it can reduce the recoil.
I agree that POI shift is a concern, so I will try to consider that in my design. However, I wonder how much it will really matter. Do you guys often remove yourbrakes to shoot with a bare muzzle? I don't.
I will have to see about weight reduction. On a small item, large changes still only have a small effect on the overall weight of the rifle. So if a change in material will force my price point up significantly, it may not be worth it to the consumer. But I get that every little bit helps with weight. Maybe offer it in steel or titanium?
Making my brake measurably better than the competition would be my guiding principle, and I would use my new design idea to help accomplish that.
Hi,
Design a quick changing color filtering/polarizing system that can attach to scopes and spotting scopes so that shooters can "weed" out colors to help them search an area faster.
Sincerely,
Theis
Design a quick changing color filtering/polarizing system that can attach to scopes and spotting scopes so that shooters can "weed" out colors to help them search an area faster.
Sincerely,
Theis
Sounds like you might have a good idea. What colors would you be looking for or wanting to weed out? Are you envisioning using it for competition, hunting, both?
look at camera lens filters and polarizers. they are pretty standard. it's not which ones to produce, it is a way of developing a system to make them fit into existing scopes
Hi,
Get the "competition" genre out of your mind IMO....competition shooters are the MINORITY in terms of the quantity of shooters. The competition market is saturated in pretty much every component, accessory, and add-on.
And correct.....the filters and polarizers are already out there. Finding a way to quickly change them in your rifle and spotting scope is a different story.
Filters are great for "weeding" out unnatural colors from natural colors and THAT is your market
Sincerely,
Theis
Get the "competition" genre out of your mind IMO....competition shooters are the MINORITY in terms of the quantity of shooters. The competition market is saturated in pretty much every component, accessory, and add-on.
And correct.....the filters and polarizers are already out there. Finding a way to quickly change them in your rifle and spotting scope is a different story.
Filters are great for "weeding" out unnatural colors from natural colors and THAT is your market
Sincerely,
Theis
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If you can utilize the internal threads on the bells, you can screw on a polarizer or filter. Or you can snap one on the ocular. Hensoldt actually makes one, but it is kinda expensive for what it is. Make them for ⅕ the cost for multiple popular scopes and I am sure people would buy them
glad i saw this ...was actually going to make a riotous suggestion on a manufacturing angle......but me thinks i shall demure on the subjectIs it possible? Two "PoopGnocchi" newbies in one week? Huzzah, boys, huzzah!
For a polarizing filter to work best, you need to have it where you can rotate it depending on the exact angle of polarization you wish, so you may find it easiest to stick it near the eye piece.
If you want to become the richest person in the history of the world, you simply need to invent a contraption that takes your clothes out of the dryer and folds/hangs everything properly by itself.
You'd make so much money on this that you'd have your own GDP rating.
You'd make so much money on this that you'd have your own GDP rating.
I agree. And it seems to me that the most important consideration would be having no POA shift.
I agree. And it seems to me that the most important consideration would be having no POA shift.
Be careful with this, and read all of the regs. I’m not sure about refuges, anD would guess the regs vary by location, however, wilderness areas designate ANY wheeled contraption as a vehicle and ban them. Foot or hoof power only...
That's my point. A hand cart is prohibited within national wilderness areas. ANYTHING with wheels is. Refuges may be different, but make sure before-hand.
From the wilderness restrictions...
"Travel and Equipment:
- Motorized equipment and equipment used for mechanical transport is prohibited. This includes the use of motor vehicles, motorboats, motorized equipment, bicycles, hang gliders, wagons, carts, portage wheels, and the landing of aircraft including helicopters.
- To lessen erosion, shortcutting of switchbacks is prohibited. "
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So possibly get them back by dragging an old Indian style pull pack resting on 2 long poles... no wheels... way more damage than if they let you use wheels.
Dang. Those National Wildlife folks are party poopers. I get the ban on motorized stuff, but carts?
*National Wilderness folks
The people running Aransas National Wildlife Refuge were fine with my stand/cart.
The people running Aransas National Wildlife Refuge were fine with my stand/cart.
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