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Index pin undersized by .0002 should it be concerning?

URGILOVERR

Private
Minuteman
Mar 6, 2023
85
14
USA
Just got a barrel with the index pin measuring .12480 Colt TDP spec calls for .1255 +0.000/ -.0005 so .0002 undersized I have another barrel from the same company measuring .12505 should this be concerning at all? The .1248 index pin is not sloppy in my upper receiver mouse hole/index pin slot hole. Am I overthinking?
 
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How are you measuring these and how confident are you in the results?

Have you reached out to the manufacturer for their take?

Yes, you’re probably overthinking it if it still fits in the slot with no discernible slop.
 
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How are you measuring these and how confident are you in the results?

Have you reached out to the manufacturer for their take?

Yes, you’re probably overthinking it if it still fits in the slot with no discernible slop.
Mitutoyo micrometers with barrel installed in a vise, the micrometers are forsure calibrated I have a few class zz minus gauges with a tolerance of -0.00020 and it is spot on all of them.
 
How are you measuring these and how confident are you in the results?

Have you reached out to the manufacturer for their take?

Yes, you’re probably overthinking it if it still fits in the slot with no discernible slop.
My worries are getting receivers with a .1275-.128 index slot, then the slop would be out of tolerance according to the TDP.
 
I work as a aerospace grinder. I regularly grind to +/- 0.0002" in inconel.

Are the temps in the proper range for measuring? Matters at these tight sizes.
For measuring that tight we use air gages. You are not likely to have those. $2k each. At work we use 2500:1 (50 millionths = 0.125" on the 0.003" range dial ) and 8000:1 (10 millionths = 0.075" on the 0.0015" dial)
 
Your tolerance on the measuring tool is -.0002 and your measurement is under by 0.0002 also?No I was
You should send it back to Colt.
Your tolerance on the measuring tool is -.0002 and your measurement is under by 0.0002 also?
No I was
Your tolerance on the measuring tool is -.0002 and your measurement is under by 0.0002 also?
no I was referencing that I have a lot of class zz pin gauges that the micrometers read correctly say I want to measure one of my .072 class zz minus gauges my micrometers read .07180 witch is within the .0002 tolerance that the pin gauge has.
 
I work as a aerospace grinder. I regularly grind to +/- 0.0002" in inconel.

Are the temps in the proper range for measuring? Matters at these tight sizes.
For measuring that tight we use air gages. You are not likely to have those. $2k each. At work we use 2500:1 (50 millionths = 0.125" on the 0.003" range dial ) and 8000:1 (10 millionths = 0.075" on the 0.0015" dial)
Yes correct temperature at room temp, I’m not touching anything that Im measuring with my hands that could potentially expand it, also my Mitutoyo micrometers read my .072 class zz minus pin . At 07180 (random sample gauge I came up with to type this up) and all of my other zz pin gauges fall within the -.0002 spec this is how I know my measuring is accurate.
 
I would think that if the .1249 pin fits without slop your hole would be at .1250, when I was at my last machine shop an old man there always said to use an undersized gage pin to check holes because a .1250 pin will not fit a .1250 hole it would have to be a few tenths under to fit.
 
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If it fits ok in the upper you intend to install the barrel on, I wouldn't worry about it. Use a good MI rod for assembly, torque the barrel nut to spec and it should be fine.
 
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Just got a barrel with the index pin measuring .12480 Colt TDP spec calls for .1255 +0.000/ -.0005 so .0002 undersized I have another barrel from the same company measuring .12505 should this be concerning at all? The .1249 index pin is not sloppy in my upper receiver mouse hole/index pin slot hole. Am I overthinking?

Do you really think that the .0002 is going to make any difference, overthinking it.
 
I would think that if the .1249 pin fits without slop your hole would be at .1250, when I was at my last machine shop an old man there always said to use an undersized gage pin to check holes because a .1250 pin will not fit a .1250 hole it would have to be a few tenths under to fit.
Absolutely I use minus gauges to check the diameter of most things and use both plus and minus if I want to be as accurate as possible. it’s under sized there is a specific tolerance, and that tolerance is .1255 +0.0 / -.0005 if it was within That minus tolerance even at the bare minimum I wouldn’t care. The reason I do care it is .0002 undersized Can create issues if I get a .1275 through .128 upper receiver index notch, the slop will be over TDP specifications.
 
Absolutely I use minus gauges to check the diameter of most things and use both plus and minus if I want to be as accurate as possible. it’s under sized there is a specific tolerance, and that tolerance is .1255 +0.0 / -.0005 if it was within That minus tolerance even at the bare minimum I wouldn’t care. The reason I do care it is .0002 undersized Can create issues if I get a .1275 through .128 upper receiver index notch, the slop will be over TDP specifications.
May have missed it, but have you considered you’re overthinking this?
 
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Absolutely I use minus gauges to check the diameter of most things and use both plus and minus if I want to be as accurate as possible. it’s under sized there is a specific tolerance, and that tolerance is .1255 +0.0 / -.0005 if it was within That minus tolerance even at the bare minimum I wouldn’t care. The reason I do care it is .0002 undersized Can create issues if I get a .1275 through .128 upper receiver index notch, the slop will be over TDP specifications.
Have you considered that it would be easy to buy another index pin? Have you considered that if the pin were “to spec” it might not work with this upper receiver?

I may have missed it, but maybe your are overthinking this.
 
The amount of "slop" you are worried about is a little smaller than the diameter of a red blood cell (assuming numbers i pulled up on a quick search are accurate). Even with tolerance stacking I think you will be fine.
 
This thread is proof you can buy all the tools (that you think are correct) but if you don't understand how to use them properly they are useless.

Ive said this before but there is a reason school trained machinists spend a whole year learning how to use measuring devices and why its done the way its done.

Picking up a mic or pin gauge with no experience is like picking up a baseball bat and thinking you are Hank Aaron.
 
Honest question:
What do you think you stand to gain by trying to hold literally ANY part of a DI gas gun to .0002” worth of scrutiny?
Or any firearm for that matter?

The colt tdp likely relates back to the reamed hole in the barrel extension and the desired interference fit, more than the index slot clearance
Bingo.
 
This thread is proof you can buy all the tools (that you think are correct) but if you don't understand how to use them properly they are useless.

Ive said this before but there is a reason school trained machinists spend a whole year learning how to use measuring devices and why its done the way its done.

Picking up a mic or pin gauge with no experience is like picking up a baseball bat and thinking you are Hank Aaron.
I’m in machinist school lmao ok broe
 
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The colt tdp likely relates back to the reamed hole in the barrel extension and the desired interference fit, more than the index slot clearance.

At worst, you'll be off 0.01 degrees beyond the tdp spec....
C74828E4-FE9D-4CE8-9537-F850C7AD7B50.png
 


Yes, that looks like a print for a pin that will always be an interference fit with the barrel extension, according to this print. Also only calls for 30 minute angular accuracy, or 0.5 degree, a lot more than the 0.01 degree caused by the undersized pin.

Also a pretty standard spec for a dowel pin.

Just posting the print didn't add any content to the thread.

You have to understand why the spec is what it is. In this case, it's a pressed in alignment pin, the fit needs to be correct for it to stay put.

Colt may use a 0.1245 reamer, thus a 0.1255-0.0005 pin. Your specific manufacturer may use a 0.1240 reamer, and go with a 0.1255-0.0010 pin.

Very unlikely that the -0.0005 spec relates to alignment
 

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Haven’t gotten to our own projects yet 😂
Fine. Let me teach you something. I was messing with you saying you should make your own. That is the hard and expensive way to go about it. Learn this lesson. Why make it yourself when somebody else can do it much cheaper and better? McMaster Carr is your friend.
$11.48 for 50 pcs.
3 other options in other materials.

Your time is worth more than making it yourself.

Another suggestion is take the pin to your teacher and have them measure it. You might get a different measurement.
 
You’ve made two threads about parts not being to “TDP specs.” Maybe rifle assembly isn’t for you. Bendy Bill might assemble it for you if you suck his dick a little harder.
 
You’ve made two threads about parts not being to “TDP specs.” Maybe rifle assembly isn’t for you. Bendy Bill might assemble it for you if you suck his dick a little harder.
Well the mk16 rail specs out with my 1913 picitiany gauge and my Geissele trigger specs out with .155 minus gauges, spring tension checks out, no rust , trigger pull gauge reads constantly great company and customer service from my experience . Don’t have any other parts but that from them. Not sure why you’re so mad but you can go ahead and slap a bunch of out of spec parts together if that’s what you’re into.
 
Did you not read that I have 3 other barrels from the same company that measures well within the TDP tolerance
 
Your questions in your original post were should this be concerning and are you over thinking it.

Both of these questions have been answered numerous times that you should not be concerned and you are over thinking it.

If you don't like those answers then return the barrel to the manufacturer for being "out of spec".

I'll give you $20 for the barrel and $10 for shipping just to not see any more posts about it.
 
Well the mk16 rail specs out with my 1913 picitiany gauge and my Geissele trigger specs out with .155 minus gauges, spring tension checks out, no rust , trigger pull gauge reads constantly great company and customer service from my experience . Don’t have any other parts but that from them. Not sure why you’re so mad but you can go ahead and slap a bunch of out of spec parts together if that’s what you’re into.
Funny you should mention that. I’ve put together 4 ARs with zero “gunsmithing” courses or experience. One was with premium parts and the other three were whatever I could get on sale at various times. What mattered most to me was bolt interface to barrel and that things fit without slop and functioned correctly. Never measured anything to the thousandth or the ten thousandth. Each one shoots great, and by great I mean Moa or better. That includes the 7-1/2” pistol.

That’s why we’re telling you that you’re overthinking it. Maybe you are cut out to be a gage calibration guy. You sound like most of them that I’ve dealt with.

Good luck with your project and let us know what you end up doing and the results. I know that I’m truly interested.
 
That’s why we’re telling you that you’re overthinking it. Maybe you are cut out to be a gage calibration guy. You sound like most of them that I’ve dealt with.

Good luck with your project and let us know what you end up doing and the results. I know that I’m truly interested.
Can you let me know how I can filter out this thread for precision machinist only please ?
 
And you thought gas gun people are crude barbarians; look at the precision instrumentation they’re capable of!
lmao ok bro
Move it here https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/

But that's for "practical" machinists so they probably won't be any help either.
if there’s a tolerance that allows.0005 of leeway, and what I’m measuring is over that actually you know what nvm, I’m rejecting it anyway becuse after further inspection it has pitting/ corrosion In the barrel even after soaking it in wipe out for 24 hours thread is dead by now.
 
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Well, who could have predicted that outcome? 🧐

Besides everybody that wasted their time trying to help. 🙄