Hi, do you guys have separate insurance policies for shooting or does it tend to come under the umbrella of another policy ? Is there a company out there that tends to support the sport who might be able to provide broad cover for accidents and legal costs ? Thanks
Insurance for shooting
- Thread starter Timo Turl
- Start date
Re: Insurance for shooting
Wait a minute...do you mean:
a) insurance for firearms, scopes, etc.?;
b) insurance for a shooting range/etc.?;
c) insurance for instructing others in the art shooting, firearms handling, etc....like as a business?; or
d) something else?
Wait a minute...do you mean:
a) insurance for firearms, scopes, etc.?;
b) insurance for a shooting range/etc.?;
c) insurance for instructing others in the art shooting, firearms handling, etc....like as a business?; or
d) something else?
Re: Insurance for shooting
I want insurance so that when I'm at a range, hunting or otherwise using or maintaining my weapons then if there is an accident i want to be make sure that I'm covered, anyone who is injured is covered and can obtain the best medical care and i have enough legal protection to ensure any subsequent costs are also covered. Scopes/rifles are usually covered as part of home contents insurance.
I figure accidents do happen and given how people love to sue i can only see major costs associated with an accidental shooting whether i am the victim or the shooter. It is not unheard of that victims of serious assault who end up using legitimate lethal force can find that a victims family pursuing private suits or they even face public charges. Surely, if you carry concealed or participate in shooting you have insurance ? I guess ranges have to be covered by some sort of policy but i'm not comfortable relying explusively on that.
I want insurance so that when I'm at a range, hunting or otherwise using or maintaining my weapons then if there is an accident i want to be make sure that I'm covered, anyone who is injured is covered and can obtain the best medical care and i have enough legal protection to ensure any subsequent costs are also covered. Scopes/rifles are usually covered as part of home contents insurance.
I figure accidents do happen and given how people love to sue i can only see major costs associated with an accidental shooting whether i am the victim or the shooter. It is not unheard of that victims of serious assault who end up using legitimate lethal force can find that a victims family pursuing private suits or they even face public charges. Surely, if you carry concealed or participate in shooting you have insurance ? I guess ranges have to be covered by some sort of policy but i'm not comfortable relying explusively on that.
Re: Insurance for shooting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I want insurance so that when I'm at a range, hunting or otherwise using or maintaining my weapons then if there is an accident i want to be make sure that I'm covered, anyone who is injured is covered and can obtain the best medical care and i have enough legal protection to ensure any subsequent costs are also covered. Scopes/rifles are usually covered as part of home contents insurance.
I figure accidents do happen and given how people love to sue i can only see major costs associated with an accidental shooting whether i am the victim or the shooter. It is not unheard of that victims of serious assault who end up using legitimate lethal force can find that a victims family pursuing private suits or they even face public charges. Surely, if you carry concealed or participate in shooting you have insurance ? I guess ranges have to be covered by some sort of policy but i'm not comfortable relying explusively on that. </div></div>
I'm insured for when I train others, insured in terms of all my firearms/etc. for loss in fire/theft/etc., and my wife/family will be well cared for if I'm ever accidentally killed (life insurance) or so badly wounded I can't work (Short-term/Long-term Disability Ins.). I also have health insurance that will keep me out of the poor house/medical bankruptcy.
Even an umbrella policy (which I have for a couple different reasons) isn't likely to cover a negligent shooting (someone else by your hand or you shooting yourself), and it certainly is unlikely to cover a civil suit arising from you intentionally shooting someone (regardless or whether its a bad guy or otherwise). The best you could hope for is a reservation of rights letter from the insurance company under the umbrella saying that they'll provide a defense for you. A reservation of rights (ROR) letter from your insurer is basically a notice that they may proceed to handle the claims made against you, but deny coverage for certain losses that the company deems are not covered by the terms of your insurance policy. These are usually accompanied by a quick declaratory action filed by the ins co in which it seeks to have a court declare that it owes you, its insured, no obligations under the policy (or policies) of insurance to provide a defense or to compensate anyone...you or a 3rd party claimant...for any alleged injury.
The NRA (if you are a member) provides $5000/$10000 in accidental Death/Dismemberment Insurance as a standard part of every membership. They also offer other elective insurance benefits including those for firearms/accessories, LEO coverage, etc. HOWEVER...with what you are talking about...you need to check into the NRA's offerings through their "NRA Endorsed Insurance Program" which offers many different coverage options, but specifically for you, 1) Excess personal liability Insurance; and 2) Self-defense coverage. In my experience, at least with the instructor's liability coverage, their premiums aren't bad at all and they offer coverage options that most insurance companies would only laugh at. If you aren't a member...become one!!
http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/members.htm
Good luck!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I want insurance so that when I'm at a range, hunting or otherwise using or maintaining my weapons then if there is an accident i want to be make sure that I'm covered, anyone who is injured is covered and can obtain the best medical care and i have enough legal protection to ensure any subsequent costs are also covered. Scopes/rifles are usually covered as part of home contents insurance.
I figure accidents do happen and given how people love to sue i can only see major costs associated with an accidental shooting whether i am the victim or the shooter. It is not unheard of that victims of serious assault who end up using legitimate lethal force can find that a victims family pursuing private suits or they even face public charges. Surely, if you carry concealed or participate in shooting you have insurance ? I guess ranges have to be covered by some sort of policy but i'm not comfortable relying explusively on that. </div></div>
I'm insured for when I train others, insured in terms of all my firearms/etc. for loss in fire/theft/etc., and my wife/family will be well cared for if I'm ever accidentally killed (life insurance) or so badly wounded I can't work (Short-term/Long-term Disability Ins.). I also have health insurance that will keep me out of the poor house/medical bankruptcy.
Even an umbrella policy (which I have for a couple different reasons) isn't likely to cover a negligent shooting (someone else by your hand or you shooting yourself), and it certainly is unlikely to cover a civil suit arising from you intentionally shooting someone (regardless or whether its a bad guy or otherwise). The best you could hope for is a reservation of rights letter from the insurance company under the umbrella saying that they'll provide a defense for you. A reservation of rights (ROR) letter from your insurer is basically a notice that they may proceed to handle the claims made against you, but deny coverage for certain losses that the company deems are not covered by the terms of your insurance policy. These are usually accompanied by a quick declaratory action filed by the ins co in which it seeks to have a court declare that it owes you, its insured, no obligations under the policy (or policies) of insurance to provide a defense or to compensate anyone...you or a 3rd party claimant...for any alleged injury.
The NRA (if you are a member) provides $5000/$10000 in accidental Death/Dismemberment Insurance as a standard part of every membership. They also offer other elective insurance benefits including those for firearms/accessories, LEO coverage, etc. HOWEVER...with what you are talking about...you need to check into the NRA's offerings through their "NRA Endorsed Insurance Program" which offers many different coverage options, but specifically for you, 1) Excess personal liability Insurance; and 2) Self-defense coverage. In my experience, at least with the instructor's liability coverage, their premiums aren't bad at all and they offer coverage options that most insurance companies would only laugh at. If you aren't a member...become one!!
http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/members.htm
Good luck!!!
Re: Insurance for shooting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TangoDown911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Omg. Really. There is something in the water in NYC. </div></div>
Gotta be sumthin'......
Heard a saying once, kinda stuck in my head.....apply, here, at your own risk.
"On every New Born's ass should be tattooed the words....Caution: Life, can easily cause Death".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TangoDown911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Omg. Really. There is something in the water in NYC. </div></div>
Gotta be sumthin'......
Heard a saying once, kinda stuck in my head.....apply, here, at your own risk.
"On every New Born's ass should be tattooed the words....Caution: Life, can easily cause Death".
Re: Insurance for shooting
jees us not to be a dick buddy but if your opinion about firearms is that accidents happen please stay the hell away from gillette wy or any other place i may be for that matter and if you train others for the love of god please stop.my opinion is that there never is or ever will be a gun accident.if its a gun treat it as always loaded duh.for a gun to go off(fire) when its not pointed at its intended target is not an accident its stupidity or a weapon malfunction.agian not trying to be a dick but you mat reconsider how you state things..
jees us not to be a dick buddy but if your opinion about firearms is that accidents happen please stay the hell away from gillette wy or any other place i may be for that matter and if you train others for the love of god please stop.my opinion is that there never is or ever will be a gun accident.if its a gun treat it as always loaded duh.for a gun to go off(fire) when its not pointed at its intended target is not an accident its stupidity or a weapon malfunction.agian not trying to be a dick but you mat reconsider how you state things..
Re: Insurance for shooting
There have been court cases for just about anything even blowing smoke in someones face. TJ brings up a very a valid question/concern. I am not sure if there is any country that is as sue happy as USA. To be honest though I feel safer from lawsuits on the rifle range than say at a grocery store with a whole bunch of liberals. ORD is right umbrella policies are garbage same thing as waivers (like for instance the ones people sign for kids to go on a "dangerous" field trip or outing". Same goes for the BlackWater sign, which is wrong on so many levels, but nearly all rifle ranges and boyscout troops have them. I wish that is all business had to do was to place signs up like that. Like for Mc Donalds Drinking Coffee is a dangerous Activity!
There have been court cases for just about anything even blowing smoke in someones face. TJ brings up a very a valid question/concern. I am not sure if there is any country that is as sue happy as USA. To be honest though I feel safer from lawsuits on the rifle range than say at a grocery store with a whole bunch of liberals. ORD is right umbrella policies are garbage same thing as waivers (like for instance the ones people sign for kids to go on a "dangerous" field trip or outing". Same goes for the BlackWater sign, which is wrong on so many levels, but nearly all rifle ranges and boyscout troops have them. I wish that is all business had to do was to place signs up like that. Like for Mc Donalds Drinking Coffee is a dangerous Activity!
Re: Insurance for shooting
Guys, cut me some slack. I've been in the country for about 2 weeks and I'm just trying to be sensible. In the UK for $100 a year NRA membership fee we are automatically covered up to $20m on civil liability on all shooting related accidents including reloading, competitions, practising, any events on ranges or shooting grounds. We have personal accident cover, equipment cover and a very high legal expense cover too within that fee that also stretches to attorney fees related to the suspension, revocation, refusal to renew or issue firearms liences. For $100 a yr that is a lot of cover and it includes full NRA membership fees too.
Now if you think i'm dumb for asking if you guys have individual insurance then that's fine by me. I've found several US based insurance policies that cover accidents arising out of lawful use of a firearm, concealed or not. Range accidents, hunting accidents, transporting accidents & also legal fees.
If you are telling me there isn't a need or a market for this sort of insurance in the US then that's great and i'm thrilled. I'm pretty sure 99% of people on this site are safe, intelligent shooters who won't ever have an accident (however we've all read the threads on here about some dumbass that's been encountered when out on a hunt or someone crawling around with a loaded firearm that discharged) but if I could find a policy like the one we have in the UK, even for a bit more money, I personally think that would be money well spent.
The nature of our sport/industry, the desire to push the boundaries, the rise of less-well governed competitions, the increase in concealed carry etc etc mean that is is a certainty that there will be an unfortunate accident or need to justify ones actions at some point. There was a long thread i read on here about the risk from prosecution in using reloaded vs factory ammo when concealed. Appreciate that is a more interesting thread than this but it tells me people are thinking about "now what happens?" after an event and that's all i'm trying to insure against.
Guys, cut me some slack. I've been in the country for about 2 weeks and I'm just trying to be sensible. In the UK for $100 a year NRA membership fee we are automatically covered up to $20m on civil liability on all shooting related accidents including reloading, competitions, practising, any events on ranges or shooting grounds. We have personal accident cover, equipment cover and a very high legal expense cover too within that fee that also stretches to attorney fees related to the suspension, revocation, refusal to renew or issue firearms liences. For $100 a yr that is a lot of cover and it includes full NRA membership fees too.
Now if you think i'm dumb for asking if you guys have individual insurance then that's fine by me. I've found several US based insurance policies that cover accidents arising out of lawful use of a firearm, concealed or not. Range accidents, hunting accidents, transporting accidents & also legal fees.
If you are telling me there isn't a need or a market for this sort of insurance in the US then that's great and i'm thrilled. I'm pretty sure 99% of people on this site are safe, intelligent shooters who won't ever have an accident (however we've all read the threads on here about some dumbass that's been encountered when out on a hunt or someone crawling around with a loaded firearm that discharged) but if I could find a policy like the one we have in the UK, even for a bit more money, I personally think that would be money well spent.
The nature of our sport/industry, the desire to push the boundaries, the rise of less-well governed competitions, the increase in concealed carry etc etc mean that is is a certainty that there will be an unfortunate accident or need to justify ones actions at some point. There was a long thread i read on here about the risk from prosecution in using reloaded vs factory ammo when concealed. Appreciate that is a more interesting thread than this but it tells me people are thinking about "now what happens?" after an event and that's all i'm trying to insure against.
Re: Insurance for shooting
If you want to know the correct answer, your best bet is to ask an agent of a reputable insurance underwriter.
Virtually ALL insurance underwriters in this country understand that firearms and their recreational use are a fact of life. Additionally, they understand that their some of their insured will be involved in a firearms-related accident.
That's what liability polices are for. They cover acts of an accidental or unintentional negligence nature. They will not cover intentional acts like you shooting someone in self defense. Which is why many states bar civil suits against people who lawfully use firearms or deadly force in self defense.
Once again, ask this question to insurance company agents in your state. They, more than anyone, know and understand the legalities of liability insurance in your state and the products offered by their underwriter to deal with them.
If you want to know the correct answer, your best bet is to ask an agent of a reputable insurance underwriter.
Virtually ALL insurance underwriters in this country understand that firearms and their recreational use are a fact of life. Additionally, they understand that their some of their insured will be involved in a firearms-related accident.
That's what liability polices are for. They cover acts of an accidental or unintentional negligence nature. They will not cover intentional acts like you shooting someone in self defense. Which is why many states bar civil suits against people who lawfully use firearms or deadly force in self defense.
Once again, ask this question to insurance company agents in your state. They, more than anyone, know and understand the legalities of liability insurance in your state and the products offered by their underwriter to deal with them.
Similar threads
