Gen 1 Vipzor
Rifle Scopes Is a Viper PST Gen 3 coming???
- Thread starter Tyrich88
- Start date
No, I would say Philippines built instead of China (Strike Eagle) at that price.
Did I say a damn thing about putting Razor quality glass in it? You do realize there's many different levels of glass that LOW offers, right?
But with optics technology being where it is not, they could easily put Razor G2 glass in it and sell it for $1,200-1,500 and still make profit.
Shoot I bet they’d make a profit at lower than that.
But honestly I would be totally up for $1200-1500 with gen 2 razor glass and the new turrets. Sign me up!
But honestly I would be totally up for $1200-1500 with gen 2 razor glass and the new turrets. Sign me up!
The 3-15x44 gen 2 PST I had was great. Replaced it with an AMG for the locking turrets and better glass. After handling an LHT 4.5-22, I opted to hold out for a used AMG.
Hoping for an gen 2 AMG or equivalent in the near future. Something in the 30 oz range with Razor gen 3 glass and good turrets.
Hoping for an gen 2 AMG or equivalent in the near future. Something in the 30 oz range with Razor gen 3 glass and good turrets.
This is exactly what I'm hoping for. Would be my perfect 6 arc optic. Currently have a 1-6 razor on it but want more on the top end, don't have gen3 1-10 budget though.
I 100% agree with this.
I have a razor 1-10 and would absolutely jump all over this if it was as described above.
I almost went Nightforce NX8 but it just didn’t quite fit what I wanted. If vortex came into that space with a 1-10 PST gen 3 with a Christmas tree reticle and horse shoe… MAN. Count me in
That's what gen 2 razors should go for.... atleast what they went for a couple years ago. That's how I ended up with a XRS III. They raised the price a few weeks before I was ready to buy.
If they do come out with a PST 3, hopefully they blow out the PST 2's as well as they have the 3-18 Razor Gen 2's, been a couple times you could get those for ~$1000 the last 2-3 months.
If you see another razor for $1k, can you send that to me? I'd jump all over that!
Dont even care that its 3-18
The 3-18 Razor is slept on. I have one and I love it.
With that said, I do see why they aren’t popular. The 3.6-18 Mk5 does everything the razor does but its lighter and IMO has better turrets.
Optics Planet has had them a couple times over the last few months, that's the only place I've seen them that cheap in the $1000-1100 range. I know there's a love/hate with OP, but sometimes they have good deals and if it's in stock you're pretty safe.
This is just me, but for range only use, I find myself always having an 18x maxed out. I actually bought 3 of them when OP had them on sale back in Oct, and sold two of them. It's a better scope than a PST 2 for sure, but for just paper punching range use, I'd rather have the 25x of the PST 2. The only one I kept is on a Scar 20s. I know for PRS etc. use often folks aren't even using 18x, but for me just shooting groups most of the time, I find myself wanting more than 18x. Not that you can't shoot great groups with lower mag, I have a 10x max on a .308 and it does fine, but given the option I'd rather have more mag for a gun that mostly does bench duty.
This is just me, but for range only use, I find myself always having an 18x maxed out. I actually bought 3 of them when OP had them on sale back in Oct, and sold two of them. It's a better scope than a PST 2 for sure, but for just paper punching range use, I'd rather have the 25x of the PST 2. The only one I kept is on a Scar 20s. I know for PRS etc. use often folks aren't even using 18x, but for me just shooting groups most of the time, I find myself wanting more than 18x. Not that you can't shoot great groups with lower mag, I have a 10x max on a .308 and it does fine, but given the option I'd rather have more mag for a gun that mostly does bench duty.
That’s fair.
I’ll keep my eye on optics planet for those.
Most places don’t even have a page for the 3-18 anymore as it’s discontinued. I find that strange since the 4.5-27 is still around, maybe it’ll get discontinued soon too, idk.
They discontinued the 3-18 as right from the start it never sold well. You can find forum posts from nearly day 1 of launch explaining why it was a flop.
The market for a 46oz 3-18 is basically no existent, other than saving $100 there was no reason to ever buy that model.
The Gen2 4.5-27 will probably hang around for a while longer.
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for it.
There are a bunch of midrange 1-8/10 scopes on the market and none of them get resounding good reviews.
To achieve what the market wants from a 1-10 will put it way out of the price range of any PST Gen3 preplacement.
Heck even the Razor Gen3 gets its fair share of complaints.
The latest 1-10 Delta Stryker is probably the closest thing to what FuhQ asked being $1700. That has a certain compromises made at that price range which most of the reviewers have pointed out aren't the compromises that should've been made.
I always wonder about this with a lot of scopes. You see a lot of scopes offering a 3-15, 3-18 plus a 5-25 offering. Weight is usually almost the same as is price. It seems like the vast majority of folks buying a tactical/target scope are going to prioritize having the range from 18-30x, more than from 3-5x. In fact it seems like the trend the last few years is to clearly have more mag than even 25x, with many opting for 30-36x on the top end.
XTR III is another one......5oz lighter and $200 cheaper for the 3-18.....I'll take the 5-30 every-time. Give up 12x on the top end to gain only 2x on the low end.....no thanks. If I really needed to prioritize the 3x-5x that much, I'd probably be looking into an even smaller/lighter offering. It would be one thing if the 3-18 version was 25% lighter and significantly cheaper. Mark 5HD, 4oz lighter and $200 cheaper but you give up 7x on the top end but only gain 1.4x on the low end.
I'd much rather see them just offer the 5-25, and drop the price a bit because they are not carrying a second 3-18x scope that is not going to sell nearly as well. I could also see it if they were offering like a 3-18 and a say 7-35 where the mag, weight, price gaps were much larger.
Again not that a 3-18 can't get the job done very well, but it just seems like 3-18 range scopes are answers looking for solutions. If you really need the low end power you probably want something even smaller/lighter, and at basically the same weight/price it (outside of sales/closeouts) I have to imagine most are going to opt for 25x+ compared to 15-18x when you are only giving up 1-2x on the low end.
Which magnification range is more appropriate definitely depends on what you plan to do with it. I use low power a lot, so I tend to lean toward somewhat lower power scopes. That's just me though.
One thing I will add is that magnification is multiplicative, i.e. 30x vs 18x is an exactly identical ratio as 5.5x vs 3.3x When choosing 5.5-30x over 3.3-18x you are gaining EXACTLY as much on the top end as you are losing on the low end. It just comes down to which one is more important for you.
ILya
I typically am a magnification whore... And pretty much every single rifle I own has at least a 5-25, 6-24, 5-30, or 6-36 on it...
BUT... My main hunting rifle, wears a Kahles K318i CCW RSW SKMR3. The 3.5x low end and ultra-sharp glass really gives you a nice FOV for scanning downrange. But that 18x top end will allow me to really reach on out there. When shooting at an animal the size of a deer, 18x will let you shoot A LOT farther than you realize, compared to shooting at tiny little orange dots on paper. The dots on paper trick your brain into thinking you need more mag on your hunting rifle, when in reality, you're never going to be looking at things that small in the woods while hunting. Even squirrels are exponentially larger than the 1" dots you're shooting at on paper at 100 yards.
When I'm shooting for groups, and on my target rifles, the more top-end, the better. That way I can really zoom in on those dots and make sure my groups are as tight as possible during load development, so I know if it's the gun not liking the load, or if it's me not centering it up 100% in the same spot every time. If I can zoom in REALLY close, then I can center that crosshair up in the middle of that dot every time.
But for hunting, my main deer rig runs a 3.5-18x50... And my other lightweight deer rifles have Zeiss V4 6-24x50's on top. They're the best compromise of weight, glass quality, and shooting versatility, with the ability for LR shooting with the exposed elevation turret. Not that they're the best thing ever made, but they're the best compromise I've found for all-around versatility of both hunting and target shooting.
BUT... My main hunting rifle, wears a Kahles K318i CCW RSW SKMR3. The 3.5x low end and ultra-sharp glass really gives you a nice FOV for scanning downrange. But that 18x top end will allow me to really reach on out there. When shooting at an animal the size of a deer, 18x will let you shoot A LOT farther than you realize, compared to shooting at tiny little orange dots on paper. The dots on paper trick your brain into thinking you need more mag on your hunting rifle, when in reality, you're never going to be looking at things that small in the woods while hunting. Even squirrels are exponentially larger than the 1" dots you're shooting at on paper at 100 yards.
When I'm shooting for groups, and on my target rifles, the more top-end, the better. That way I can really zoom in on those dots and make sure my groups are as tight as possible during load development, so I know if it's the gun not liking the load, or if it's me not centering it up 100% in the same spot every time. If I can zoom in REALLY close, then I can center that crosshair up in the middle of that dot every time.
But for hunting, my main deer rig runs a 3.5-18x50... And my other lightweight deer rifles have Zeiss V4 6-24x50's on top. They're the best compromise of weight, glass quality, and shooting versatility, with the ability for LR shooting with the exposed elevation turret. Not that they're the best thing ever made, but they're the best compromise I've found for all-around versatility of both hunting and target shooting.
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Well a couple new vortex venom optics came out yesterday, so they’re starting to announce some things in front of SHOT.
Saw on their Instagram post where people were asking for a PST Gen3 in the comments that their replies seem to potentially hint that it may be coming soon.
Fingers crossed
Also MSRP on the strike eagles went up… as did a few other things that I noticed
Saw on their Instagram post where people were asking for a PST Gen3 in the comments that their replies seem to potentially hint that it may be coming soon.
Fingers crossed
Also MSRP on the strike eagles went up… as did a few other things that I noticed
Damn, MSRP on the strike eagle 5-25 and 3-18 are over $1k.
Yeah but it looks like a lot of things went up on MSRP
The razor 1-10 showed $4k when I looked yesterday
The razor 1-10 showed $4k when I looked yesterday
If the glass on that Venom 3-15 is on par with the 3-15 PST, then they'll need to release a Gen3 as the PST Gen2 won't be get many sales.
Capped windage, thicker reticle, wider FOV, more elevation, closer parallax, similar weight, shorter and cheaper price!
The only way it's not a clear replacement/improvement is if the glass is lacking. Lacking illumination but probably not a huge deal for most people.
Capped windage, thicker reticle, wider FOV, more elevation, closer parallax, similar weight, shorter and cheaper price!
The only way it's not a clear replacement/improvement is if the glass is lacking. Lacking illumination but probably not a huge deal for most people.
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Gahhh I was on board until I saw the reticle.
I hate that EBR-7c reticle, with its thicker lines hanging off the horizontal stadia. Their XLR-2 mrad reticle is so much less cluttered up in that 1mil elevation area.
The Venom sorta snuck by me. Too bad the elevation turret isn’t lockable. But they’ve basically improved most of the specs vs. the PST II. Can’t almost believe the FOV at 3x is even wider, as the PST II 3-15’s FOV is already at Tangent Theta levels.
For small varmints, I like their older EBR-2c & d reticles as they are even more clean, as they have .5mil hashes vs .2mil (but their Xmas tree retains .2mil dots). But I get why target shooters like the .2mil hashes.
Anyway, cool scope.
I don’t think mine is worth the $799 MSRP it was when I bought it a few years back. Damn sure not worth over $1K…
True but damn they bumped those MSRPs up! The Gen III 6-36 is now $4799.99 MSRP!
They clearly dont want people shooting production.
A gen 3 razor would be nice. There is nothing in the 700-1200 price bracket that interests me currently. There is a huge market void there.
A gen 3 razor would be nice. There is nothing in the 700-1200 price bracket that interests me currently. There is a huge market void there.
Don’t get me wrong I love my strike eagles… but $1149?!
A bit much… that’s pushing into PST territory
I would bet a Gen 3 pst will be a $2k+ MSRP
A bit much… that’s pushing into PST territory
I would bet a Gen 3 pst will be a $2k+ MSRP
That's the price for the Vortex warranty to replace the china scopes.
Vortex has always been good to me and their discount program is very nice but the sky high MSRPs have all but made the discount useless at this point.
Enough to make their certs useless too
30% off of $4800 = 3360 (yikes)
50% off would still be $2400
Damn, that means I got a smoking deal on my black G3 6-36x from Euro... 50% off the new MSRP...
Thankfully I bought my g3 1-10 6 months ago lol
I did some digging on Vortex’s site and no dice.
Trying out old reticles in Strelok (love it) suggests it’s the older straight-up EBR-7 (no letter after the 7).
Vortex has released a few videos now on their youtube channel stating that Venom sits between the Diamondback and Strike Eagle lines. The Strike Eagle is still below Viper in terms of glass quality so with that being said it should be safe to assume that the Venom’s glass (or the Strike Eagle’s glass) won’t be up to the PST 2’s standards.
As above, EBR-7 reticle, original reticle for the 6-24 AMG.
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Bumping this thread because of a claim there will be a new PST Gen 3 in the next few months.
I'll admit I'm way to excited for the potential release of a midrange scope, but I've been a fan of the PST G2 and am interested to see an upgraded version.
Not sure what a new PST line would look like, whether they would stick to a 30mm tube and aim it at a crossover market, or if would carry on the trend towards 34mm. Not really bothered either way but I hope they don't make all models behemoths.
Would love to see the 3-15x44 bumped up in magnification a bit, say 3-18x50 or 3.3-20x50, capped or lock the windage and keep the weight less than 30oz.
A 6-36x56, 2-12x42 and a FFP 1-8x28 would round this off as my "dream" line of scopes. A bump in glass quality so they compete with the XTR3 and Mark 4/5hd would seal the deal for me.
Probably expecting too much here but if the price jumps up to XTR3i/Mark 4hd level then I think that level of glass should be expected.
If nothing else I just hope Vortex releases a line of scopes like they used to, rather than drip feed them or even not both with some models (RZR 3-18).
I'll admit I'm way to excited for the potential release of a midrange scope, but I've been a fan of the PST G2 and am interested to see an upgraded version.
Not sure what a new PST line would look like, whether they would stick to a 30mm tube and aim it at a crossover market, or if would carry on the trend towards 34mm. Not really bothered either way but I hope they don't make all models behemoths.
Would love to see the 3-15x44 bumped up in magnification a bit, say 3-18x50 or 3.3-20x50, capped or lock the windage and keep the weight less than 30oz.
A 6-36x56, 2-12x42 and a FFP 1-8x28 would round this off as my "dream" line of scopes. A bump in glass quality so they compete with the XTR3 and Mark 4/5hd would seal the deal for me.
Probably expecting too much here but if the price jumps up to XTR3i/Mark 4hd level then I think that level of glass should be expected.
If nothing else I just hope Vortex releases a line of scopes like they used to, rather than drip feed them or even not both with some models (RZR 3-18).
Hard to say, there's already a lot of competition in the $1000-$1400 market range, and with the pricing of the Strike Eagle now they'd have to be well over $1000 street. Be interesting to see where it falls, frankly I was not impressed with the Strike Eagle at all, esp. at an $800 street price. The PST 2 is much better optically, I've had 3 Strike Eagle 5-25's and dumped all of them in favor of PST 2's. People dump on the PST 2 5-25's, but for just a nice range optic that's not getting beat on, or needs to be 1000% reliable for comps etc. it's a lot of optic for the $700 you can get them for. I wasn't overly impressed with the XTR 3 5-30 sample I have, optically it's nice, but knob feel/lash is quite poor, illumination is dim. However it seems like theres a lot of reported variation in quality between XTR 3 samples. Some folks are getting great ones, others reporting not so great, seems like Burris is returning ones users are not happy with saying they are in spec. So that's not ideal either.
Be happy when they do so places will start dumping PST 2's for even cheaper, already picked up a couple 3-18 Gen 2 Razors under $1000 when they were dumping those awhile back.
If I had to guess they'll have to go 34mm just to cave to the market trend, and probably something in the 30x range, I doubt they'll go to 36x. 5-25x is old hat, 3-18's don't sell well usually if there's a 5-25 offering. They are 95% of the price/size/weight but you give up a ton of mag on the top end. They'd be better off doing a smaller format 2-12, or if they did do a 6-36 a 3-18 might pair better with it as long as it was smaller/lighter/cheaper.
All speculation though.
Be happy when they do so places will start dumping PST 2's for even cheaper, already picked up a couple 3-18 Gen 2 Razors under $1000 when they were dumping those awhile back.
If I had to guess they'll have to go 34mm just to cave to the market trend, and probably something in the 30x range, I doubt they'll go to 36x. 5-25x is old hat, 3-18's don't sell well usually if there's a 5-25 offering. They are 95% of the price/size/weight but you give up a ton of mag on the top end. They'd be better off doing a smaller format 2-12, or if they did do a 6-36 a 3-18 might pair better with it as long as it was smaller/lighter/cheaper.
All speculation though.
If true let’s hope they actually have a usable reticle on both high and low mag, as very few get it right.
I'd imagine they'd just use the 7c or 7d for any higher magnification scope.
If they do a 3-15/18 I won't be holding my breath for a thicker version than goes in the 5-25/30, but would be ecstatic if they did.
Question would be what do they do on an LPVO/MPVO.
A EBR9 type reticle in a FFP 1-x might steal sales from their RZR 1-10, so maybe they will stick to SFP, if so I hope it'd at least be a Mil based reticle.
If they did a 2-10/12 (which I'm skeptical they would) and either put a thin EBR-7x reticle or that shitty EBR-4 reticle back in, that would be a major fail in my opinion.
I think Leupold got it right with a 4x erector with a ffl scope, but haven't played with one yet.
I do not think we will see PST Gen3 anywhere near that soon. I have heard this rumor before, and I am not sure how that got started. I do see it pop up every few months.
ILya
As I've mentioned in other threads, I think Vortex created extra challenges for a new pst when they increased their prices. My prediction is it will be too expensive to be attractive given the competition that exists in that space. I'm not excited at the idea of it anymore. If it wasn't for the exceptional warranty, Vortex would be losing even more of the marketshare.
I'd be happy for more valid competition in the $1300-$1700 range. Something to go head to head with the XRS3, MK5, XTR3. Vortex does have a gap there.
@Bakwa mentioned it on a different thread, reckoned he'd heard the rumour from shot show and then it repeated by someone in the know.
Not trying to call out Bakwa here, the reason I bumped this thread was for my own self-interest as been hoping for a new PST for a while now.
I know Vortex keep tight lipped about new product releases these days, so chances of someone having any actual info on this and are willing/able to share it is slim to none.
I found a Reddit post from 3 years ago asking Vortex for a new Gen 3 PST, so definitely a long time coming for some people!
Anyway a lot of people asking for a FFP 1-6/8/10 LVPO.
I think the direct they take with a potential LVPO and MPVO will be the most interesting from this "potential" line up.
As from their other lines (SE and Venom) it's pretty easy to see what a 3-15 and 5-25 might look like.
Anyway a lot of people asking for a FFP 1-6/8/10 LVPO.
I think the direct they take with a potential LVPO and MPVO will be the most interesting from this "potential" line up.
As from their other lines (SE and Venom) it's pretty easy to see what a 3-15 and 5-25 might look like.
Well hopefully if they went the MPVO they change the reticle. If they don’t it’ll be yet another swing and a miss to add to the heaps of others…. Maybe Athlon will come out with a Japanese BTR Gen3 2-12. With a few very minor tweaks to their existing BTR gen2 they would OWN that market.
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