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Sidearms & Scatterguns Knife steels. Which do you like in a folder, fixed?

jasonfaz

jasonfaz

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Feb 27, 2011
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I searched for a thread on knife steels and couldn't find anything, so I figured I would start one up. I personally have had a lot if fun testing some of these out and am curious what other real life experiences have taught folks about the steels they prefer in certain types of knives with specific applications in mind.

First, in a folder with the intent to use as an EDC - let's call it light use every day with an avg of 2 days per week if medium use - what type of steel, blade length, handle material do you like?

Second, in a fixed blade with the intent to use as a hunting/survival knife - let's say you get in a good 5-6 hunts per year and 6-8 camping trips a year - what type of steel, blade length, handle material do you like?

Feel free to include blade designs, grind, advantages & disadvantages with certain types of uses or environmental factors you consider important. Should be interesting too see the responses, and thanks in advance for taking the time to share your opinions.
 
Not surprised the 8CrMo loses it's edge. The BM is nice, but I haven't used S30v in a fixed blade and im not sure how it would be under the impact toughness category as it can get pretty brittle at the edge.

Here are some of my observations with respect to a folder (a knife where edge retention is #1 and impact toughness is last as it relates to steel). Over the years I've carried knives with the following steels: 8Cr14MoV, S30v, N680Co, M390, 440C, Seki VG-10, ATS-34, ceramic, and S110v. The blade steels I prefer in an EDC are M390 and S110v. M390 is what I've had for years and has seemed to hold up as well as any steel I have on a hard use fixed blade. I've only had my S110v for about 6 months but absolutely love it thus far. Not sure it will hold up under stress as well as my m390 has. I'm curious if anyone has lengthy experience with either an M390 or S110v blade that they could compare to spyderco's carpenter steels (xhp, etc), Niolox blades, ELMAX, or even other crucible steels (m4, s90, 10v, etc).

On the fixed blade side I've had far fewer blades to mess with. That said, I can't think of anything that comes close to my CPM3V. I've been astonished at what this blade will endure and remain sharp. In addition to 3v I've had a Tops 1095 high carbon, an AUS 8 blade and a D2. I'm really curious how the stainless blades compare (S35vn) and how the new(er) CPM-20CV is turning out. I'm holding off buying a GSO in CPM-20 before I have a chance to hear some feedback from real field use. Any info is greatly appreciated!
 
Any high carbon steel blade for an edge that holds up well for cutting / chopping hard use with limited corrosion resistance.
Stainless steel for the sharpest edge possible but does not hold up near as well as high carbon steel blades.

I have a few knives of the same style but different blade materials depending on what I am carrying it for.

My daily knife is a Benchmade folder.
 
My M390 Benchmade is used fairly often and rarely ever sharpened. That edge lasts forever it seems. I've had it for 2 1/2 years now and only touch it up by stropping it on a piece of cardboard once in a while. It has yet to see a stone. I do use my knife for cutting only, the Leatherman is my screwdriver!

For fixed, my TOPS blade is very nice but I have not beaten it enough to give it a full review.
 
For survival / hunting fixed blade I think you can't beat the swedish mora knife for $15 bucks or so in 1095 high carbon or in stainless steel. I have used cold steel San mail 3 hunter, knives of Alaska d2 steel knives which are good for a few 100 bucks each but the mora is a super knife you can buy 5 and learn a lot about sharpening and not worry about breaking a valuable knife. The only downside to the mora is that it isn't full tang which really never comes up in daily use. I have plenty of edc folders but I don't have much opinion on what steel is better, for etc I want a decent brand name, assisted opening, and lightweight the features are more important then the type of steel to me.
 
Blade steels have advanced tremendously in the past 20 years. Where it used to be true that carbon steel blades always took and held the best edge, new steels have made that assumption reasonably debatable. I still prefer carbon steel blades, but find that different steels work better for different jobs. A knife for slicing can be much more brittle, therefore more able to hold an edge longer than a blade designed for chopping, as the chopping requires more shock resistance.

I would suggest getting a comparison chart of the various steels where things like edge holding, corrosion resistance, impact resistance, flexibility and so on are compared. That way, you can figure out what will work best for your applications. Other considerations are the area where you live, as living near salt water will require more maintenance to avoid corrosion.

To get top notch performance out of many steels, differential heat treating (like on Samurai swords) is the way to go. However, that gets pretty expensive, and you didn't mention cost as a factor.

I see folders as more "disposable" than fixed blades. I don't really throw them away, but the steels in folders (other than 440) have advanced so much that most good factory makers like Columbia river, Al Mar, Spyderco, Cold Steel and similar makers use good enough steels for the knives to be serviceable for me.

For fixed blades one of my all time favorites is A2. But then when I want a specific size, shape that I find hard to purchase, I make what I want. I made a Scottish Dirk out of A2 and had it heat treated, and cryo treated by a high end lab so I knew the heat treat would be perfect. I ended up with a 14" long razor. I used the same steel to make a Khukuri, and got the same result.

One of the reasons I like A2 is that because it is an air hardened tool steel, it won't loose it's temper unless it is subjected to temperatures far in excess of what I intend to subject it to. There are very few steels you could use to poke around in a fire without worrying about them loosing their temper, and A2 is one of them. A2 and D2 are similar, but they don't work well for all applications.
 
I can only comment on preference for EDC carry. I really like S30V an D2 tool steel for EDC knives. I also have no issue carrying something in 154cm. Those three steels represent what most of my EDC knives are made of. As far as blade length goes, I prefer something in the 3.5-4" area for daily carry. For handle material I have a variety that include steel, aluminum, titanium, G10 or a combo of several. They all seem to do fine for me, it's more about the texturing or shape of the handle that matter most to me.
 
I've used O-1, 420, 440, ATS34, S30V, S90V, and I'm sure some others. I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter. As long as the steel has been treated correctly and isn't investment cast it all holds up, and it's all a trade off.
 
I don't have near as much experience as some of y'all, but for an EDC type knife, I've got zero complaints with 154CM. Seems a bit tough to put a great edge on it, but hold it well and provides great corrosion resistance for a beater EDC type knife.

For a fixed blade, I really like O1. Seems like nothing else I've been around takes or holds an edge like it. The propensity to rust is a downside, but I find that I used fixed knives less, and don't mind "caring" for them more than the pocket beater. In a "survival" knife, I'd guess with such dependance on your knife, taking care of it daily to prevent rust would not be a big deal.
 
Knife steels. Which do you like in a folder, fixed?

Anything BRK&T makes. My favorite knives are in A2, 3V, 4V, and 52-100. I'd take any of those steels in any given knife.

For EDC folders, steel isn't that important. You're not usually excluded from sharpening when needed. I carry a Spyderco Endura 4 FFG in VG-10 that I convexed.
 
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A2, then D2 for fixed blades. 52100 is also a wonderful steel when properly forged and heat treated. Any steel can be ruined, and the ones I mentioned can be made wonderful with the proper heat treat. Without a proper heat treat, no steel is getting a fair evaluation. Most commercially produced knives from reputable manufacturers have good heat treat. Buying a handmade knife requires some additional evaluation as there are some makers whose offerings are beautiful, but poorly heat treated.

However, almost anything from a journey man blade smith will have a good heat treat. They really have to prove their knowledge before they can get the journey man stamp. I see that kind of knowledge like a masters degree from any college. A master smith stamp is like a doctorate. I don't think those smith's get enough credit for their knowledge and work.
 
Most companies with a good reputation (Kyderco, Kershaw, SOG, Al Mar, etc) use really good steels and heat treat in their folders. The only steel that I stay away from is 440C. I have difficulty getting and keeping a decent edge on a 440C blade.
 
I think I've migrated what some might consider 'backwards' in terms of steel preferences. I used to like S30V but have come to prefer 154cm as I can give it a quick 10 second sharpening in the field and be back in business whereas I'm not nearly as efficient in sharpening the S30V.

The only fixed blade knives I have are kitchen knives and I'm not a good enough judge of character to determine which ones hold an edge against tomatoes better than others - they all seem to work well when sharp.
 
banditbump said:
For survival / hunting fixed blade I think you can't beat the swedish mora knife for $15 bucks or so in 1095 high carbon or in stainless steel. I have used cold steel San mail 3 hunter, knives of Alaska d2 steel knives which are good for a few 100 bucks each but the mora is a super knife you can buy 5 and learn a lot about sharpening and not worry about breaking a valuable knife. The only downside to the mora is that it isn't full tang which really never comes up in daily use. I have plenty of edc folders but I don't have much opinion on what steel is better, for etc I want a decent brand name, assisted opening, and lightweight the features are more important then the type of steel to me.
Click to expand...

There is a knife place in Columbus that sells those for $10 or so bucks. Every time I go in I buy one. I put one in all my packs. Excellent knives for the money. cheap and sharp as heck. I used one to butcher a hog. I get the stainless ones and strop them after every use just like my EDC Kershaw Ken Onion designed blur. Also a great knife for not a lot of money.
 
It's hard to pick a specific steel for either a EDC or heavy duty belt knife. I suppose, for a very specific use, there may be a specific superior steel. There are lots of good tool steels like O1, D2. and L6. These have been around for a long time and all are in use by some of the better makers. The stainless, or corrosion resistant steels, have more recent entries but truth be told I think that improvements from 154CM or ATS-34 onward are of little significant relevance (go ahead, pile on).

Unknown's statement regarding heat treat is on the money. He mentions differential hardening which will give you greater ductility in the spine while having an edge which is harder and capable of holding an edge longer. He also points out that proper hardening is the secret to edge performance and again he is right. Good steel, improperly hardened, is about worthless. RC numbers and steel choices are all about the compromise between toughness and hardness. One of the problems big manufacturers have had in the past is that they heat treat in large batches. This can mean that some blades comes out perfect an others not so much. By now, I'm sure they've found ways to overcome this but to some degree it will always exist.

The last point to make is you must learn to sharpen. You can have a super high end custom and once the makers edge is gone you might as well have an old carbon steel Chicago Cutlery if you can't resharpen that custom. At least you can clean up the Chicago Cutlery on the bottom of your coffee cup.
 
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Quarter Horse,
You let out our secret about using the bottom of a coffee cup to sharpen knives....now there all sorts of guys will have coffee cups with discolored exposed ceramic. After all, it is just a more coarse medium like the ceramic used on ceramic sharpening rods.

A friend told me about using the edge of a car window to touch up an edge. He hunted coyotes professionally, and found that when the edge of his knife just needed a touch up, there was enough abrasive glass to touch up the edge of his knife.

There are all sorts of things people can use to touch up, or sharpen an edge. Pieces of a worn out cut off wheel can work great.
Just get creative, and people will come up with all sorts of odd things that will sharpen a knife.
 
My EDC is a BM 710 in M390. M390 holds an awesome edge but is a PIA to sharpen if you let it get too dull.

I do want to try a ZT 560 in Elmax sometime.

For a tough fixed blade I prefer a bark river in 3V.

I would highly recommend learning to convex sharpen. I can put a razors edge on just about anything with less than $20 worth of sandpaper and a leather strop.
 
I'm going to try the top of the window glass first chance I get. I was having bulbs replaced in the barn and the electrician said the old bulbs had ceramic that held the filament made great sharpeners. He was right. Oops, I think they were mercury vapor and breaking them is probably a Class III Felony.
 
There are a lot of very savvy knife dudes in this forum. I like it! There is also a ton of great info in this thread!!

I prefer a carbon steel for fixed blades as, typically, I use my fixed blades in more strenuous situations than I do my folders (not always the case). 1095, Carbon V and D2 are among my favorite fixed blade steels.

I have fixed blades that are stainless and they're great, however, under hard use I've seen the carbon steel blades perform better for longer. I've also seen them break. I guess it depends on the conditions and the blade!

As for folders, I like a good stainless AUS8 or better (154CM also), the Kershaw Sandvik steel has performed well. I even like the PRC 8CR13MOV. I won't buy 440A, B or C as they've failed me often. C is marginally okay, but with all the other great steel choices available, why?

I am a big fan of S30V in both fixed blades and in folders. I know there are "better" more "designer" steels in existence, but I like the fact that S30V doesn't magically turn the blade into a ridiculously expensive venture (well, it can but it usually doesn't unless you go custom). Since CPM introduced S30V in the early 2000's and then subsequently developed other more designer steels, the price has stabilized...making it much more affordable for guys like me who can't/won't fork over $250 + for a blade.

I have owned folders in D2 (which I think is an excellent choice for a hard use folder) but I used it so infrequently due to me always preferring a fixed blade, they ended up being sold or traded.

I really like my Spyderco Manix 2 XL in S30V. It holds a great edge. It's thick steel lends itself well to hard use tasks and it's easy enough to sharpen (I use an EPA)...and it's around $100.
 
Folder S30V
Fixed depends on what it is being used for. CPM-M4 if it is for sharpness such as gutting and skinning. Well treated 440c if I am going to be using the knife more as a tool such as chopping, prying, and strength.

I'm not a knife professional, these are just the steels I have grown to love over the years.
 
Luvman said:
My EDC is a BM 710 in M390. M390 holds an awesome edge but is a PIA to sharpen if you let it get too dull.

I do want to try a ZT 560 in Elmax sometime.

For a tough fixed blade I prefer a bark river in 3V.

I would highly recommend learning to convex sharpen. I can put a razors edge on just about anything with less than $20 worth of sandpaper and a leather strop.
Click to expand...

Luvman, I've come to the exact same conclusion as it relates to steels for my EDC and preferred fixed blade. After deciding on 390 I recently picked up a BM 484 Nakamura. This thing is the most comfortable, ergonomic, well built EDC that I've ever handled. Extremely pleased.

The Bark Rivers are very nice as well. I almost pulled the trigger on one until I heard Survive! Was running a batch of CPM20V. Should be here in a couple weeks. I could have sworn that the Surefire Echo in 3V was about the perfect fixed blade. Wish Surefire was still in the knife making business. They made some fantastic knives!
 
I'm partial to the bravo series bark rivers. I keep a Bravo 1 in 3V handy.

I picked up a benchmade 710 when they first came out. I still have it. It's ATS34steel. When I went looking to replace it with something different I couldn't find anything I liked better.

I found the first run of 710's in M390 I read up on the steel. Then bought one. Since I've had it it's been a love hate relationship. I love how well it holds an edge. I hate the time it takes to bring back to sharp. Which I only have to do every 4-5 months. For me sharp is push cutting the hair off my arm.

The only other folder that interests me in the ZT560. I'll have to break down and try one sometime.
 
I have become a steel snob, preferring Japanese super steels to most anything else. VG2 is great, SG2/SGPS is better. ZDP-189 is best. I would love to get something in Cowry X, but I have a hard time finding and affording that steel. It is offered by very few manufacturers. I used to prefer some of the better carbon steels, but got sick of rust if I don't constantly maintain them. Yes, it is harder to get a sharp edge on one of these very hard super steels, but once you get one on, it takes a long time to dull.
 
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