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Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Alpha One Tactical

Alpha One Tactical

Alpha One Tactical
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 3, 2009
13
0
Parsons, TN 38363
Before I post this I would like to make it very clear that I am NOT a trouble maker nor do I EVER get involved in causing any problems or stirring the pot on any forums. I am also doing this as a last resort after exhausting every other avenue I know and before I have to pursue it through legal channels. Not only do I hope to resolve this matter with any help/information I can get here but I also hope it will help my fellow shooters avoid this same kind of problem in the future both with this company and others who are willing to take advantage of their customers in this manner. I will try to keep it as short and to the point as possible as I certainly DO NOT enjoy this and I hope everyone will understand I am ONLY posting this after trying in EVERYTHING else possible to resolve this issue directly with Lawton Machine. With this said, here is my problem. Back in March of 2009 I commissioned Lawton Machine to build a centerfire barreled action for me use in NBRSA matches. After finalizing all of the details of this barreled action I received an email from Lawton Machine stating they had the beginning stages of this same action already started and the approximate build time of my project would be 2-3 weeks if I wanted to go with it. Knowing how long it usually takes to get something like this custom built I just all over it because the timeframe was VERY important to me as I planned to get it in time to compete in the 2009 season. So I immediately agreed on it, signed the necessary paperwork and sent them a $1000 deposit. Well, 2-3 weeks past and nothing, not even any updates from them so after about a month I decided to send an email to see if I could get an update, I even told them in my first sentence I was not trying to rush them in any way, just trying to get an update. I then received an email telling me it was going to take slightly longer and would be a couple more weeks. Finally, after 4 months they still had nothing for me nor gave me any ideas when they would have it for me. In the meantime, I had some issues with my medical insurance which was putting me in a financial bind. So, with this and when I saw I would not get the rifle in time to shoot any matches with it during the 2009 season I emailed them back, explaining the situation with my insurance and asked them if they would just refund my deposit. They said they would and that was 6-7 months ago, they still have my money they do not even make excuses any more about when they are going to send it to me. I have now even told them I was going to have to turn it over to my lawyer if they don’t send it and this hasn’t even phased them. Now I am in the process of having to try to recover my own money using legal means, which I REALLY hate to sue ANYONE, especially a fellow shooter, but I feel they have let me no choice. I feel this is a REALLY sorry way for them to treat a fellow shooter and customer and also feel this would have NEVER, EVER happened if Barney was still alive. If anyone else has had any problems with Lawton Machine or has ANY ideas how I can recover my money from them without taking them to court, PLEASE let me know. Again, I apologize for having to post something like this but I REALLY need my money and I also hope it helps someone else from making the same mistake with them or anyone else. Any help or advice concerning recovering the money Lawton Machine owes me would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks very much for your help with this matter…
Bryant
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Oh boy. Your in for a treat when everyone starts chiming in. Sorry for your problems there is a member here that works for them that may be able to help. Use the search function i believe the topic is labeled lawton machine.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolf81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Before I post this, I would like to make it very clear that I am NOT a trouble maker nor do I EVER get involved in causing any problems or stirring the pot on any forums. I am also doing this as a last resort after exhausting every other avenue I know and before I have to pursue it through legal channels. Not only do I hope to resolve this matter with any help/information I can get here, but I also hope it will help my fellow shooters avoid this same kind of problem in the future both with this company and others who are willing to take advantage of their customers in this manner. I will try to keep it as short and to the point as possible as I certainly DO NOT enjoy this and I hope everyone will understand I am ONLY posting this after trying in EVERYTHING else possible to resolve this issue directly with Lawton Machine. With this said, here is my problem:

Back in March of 2009 I commissioned Lawton Machine to build a centerfire barreled action for me use in NBRSA matches. After finalizing all of the details of this barreled action, I received an email from Lawton Machine stating they had the beginning stages of this same action already started and the approximate build time of my project would be 2-3 weeks if I wanted to go with it. Knowing how long it usually takes to get something like this custom built I just all over it because the timeframe was VERY important to me as I planned to get it in time to compete in the 2009 season. So, I immediately agreed on it, signed the necessary paperwork and sent them a $1000 deposit.

Well, 2-3 weeks past and nothing, not even any updates from them so after about a month I decided to send an email to see if I could get an update, I even told them in my first sentence I was not trying to rush them in any way, just trying to get an update. I then received an email telling me it was going to take slightly longer and would be a couple more weeks. Finally, after 4 months they still had nothing for me nor gave me any ideas when they would have it for me.

In the meantime, I had some issues with my medical insurance which was putting me in a financial bind. So, with this and when I saw I would not get the rifle in time to shoot any matches with it during the 2009 season I emailed them back, explaining the situation with my insurance and asked them if they would just refund my deposit. They said they would and that was 6-7 months ago, they still have my money they do not even make excuses any more about when they are going to send it to me. I have now even told them I was going to have to turn it over to my lawyer if they don’t send it and this hasn’t even phased them.

Now I am in the process of having to try to recover my own money using legal means, which I REALLY hate to sue ANYONE, especially a fellow shooter, but I feel they have let me no choice.

I feel this is a REALLY sorry way for them to treat a fellow shooter and customer and also feel this would have NEVER, EVER happened if Barney was still alive. If anyone else has had any problems with Lawton Machine or has ANY ideas how I can recover my money from them without taking them to court, PLEASE let me know.

Again, I apologize for having to post something like this but I REALLY need my money and I also hope it helps someone else from making the same mistake with them or anyone else. Any help or advice concerning recovering the money Lawton Machine owes me would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks very much for your help with this matter…
Bryant </div></div>

Couple of questions:
Do they have a stated policy regarding deposits on commissioned work?
Have you contacted them via phone or Certified Letter - or only by email?
Will there be any $$$ left after your lawyer gets you a judgement after his fees?
Do you think that a judgement will actually do anything to recover the $$$?

I only ask the questions about the judgement because as the economy began to fail here locally, I received several judgements against local builders for shit they owed and weren't going to pay me for and now, a few years later, all I have to show for it are judgements in my favor - I never received any judgement money. Luckily, I have lawyers in the family ranks, so that didn't cost me.

Regardless of my experience, best of luck to you & I hope that you can get this resolved.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP

"Do they have a stated policy regarding deposits on commissioned work?"

not relevant in a case where he has emails showing delivery times which have not been met by a large margin.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP

If they gave you a date to deliver, then I think you have a case.
You need to post the emails showing that info.

CP
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bruiz86</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh boy. Your in for a treat when everyone starts chiming in. Sorry for your problems there is a member here that works for them that may be able to help. Use the search function i believe the topic is labeled lawton machine. </div></div>

Yep. Never good to raise the alarm as your first post.
Hope it's seeking a contact to get some assistance in obtaining a refund.


That said, whatever your timeline was that is stated in your original contract is all that's applicable. Emails simply won't fly because they could claim that nobody with the authority to give you a date wrote the emails. Phone calls don't apply unless you've recorded them. The best method is this:

Send a hand typed/written, dated, and signed letter; you'll want to include that you will be sending copies to your State's AG and their State's AG. This must be sent return receipt and signature required. Send a copy to your State's Attorney General and file a complaint, do the same with the Attorney General over the State that the business is located in. Make sure you notify both AG Offices that you've sent a copy of the letter and complaint to the other.

Likely that you'll find out that in custom work your deposit is non-refundable and you're either going to be out the money or have to pay for your order once it's completed. It's just tough to get the money out of businesses for custom work, especially these days.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hide or Die</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bruiz86</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh boy. Your in for a treat when everyone starts chiming in. Sorry for your problems there is a member here that works for them that may be able to help. Use the search function i believe the topic is labeled lawton machine. </div></div>

Yep. Never good to raise the alarm as your first post.
Hope it's seeking a contact to get some assistance in obtaining a refund.


That said, whatever your timeline was that is stated in your original contract is all that's applicable. Emails simply won't fly because they could claim that nobody with the authority to give you a date wrote the emails. Phone calls don't apply unless you've recorded them. The best method is this:

Send a hand typed/written, dated, and signed letter; you'll want to include that you will be sending copies to your State's AG and their State's AG. This must be sent return receipt and signature required. Send a copy to your State's Attorney General and file a complaint, do the same with the Attorney General over the State that the business is located in. Make sure you notify both AG Offices that you've sent a copy of the letter and complaint to the other.

Likely that you'll find out that in custom work your deposit is non-refundable and you're either going to be out the money or have to pay for your order once it's completed. It's just tough to get the money out of businesses for custom work, especially these days. </div></div>

This is why if you can you pay with a credit card. Its the only way I managed to get my money back from Lawton.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

This is why if you can you pay with a credit card. Its the only way I managed to get my money back from Lawton.</div></div>

He started this battle in March, you can only challenge charges within 60 days with any CC, he was screwed no matter how he paid.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

This is why if you can you pay with a credit card. Its the only way I managed to get my money back from Lawton.</div></div>

He started this battle in March, you can only challenge charges within 60 days with any CC, he was screwed no matter how he paid. </div></div>

I was over 60 days with Lawton on the deposit on my card. I guess it all depends on who you use. USAA cut me a break I guess.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Hide or Die That said said:
First point is correct and you would have to show an "unreasonable" time over that contract.
Second point is quite incorrect. In a case where Email is listed it's a formal contact method accepted by the company. The same as letter head paper. If the company allows access by any old staff member that's not the customers problem.
Third point, you can "log" calls and take notes. This is acceptable. Must be done at the time.
Fourth point, if they had actually broken the contract then he could get a case against them.

The real "issue" is they are within that period of time and there can be no valid complaint.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Jason, Bank of America gives you 6 months to file a dispute (charge back) so each bank is different.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

I would call them and ask for action only. At least you can then sell it on the internet.
Not here probably, well go to the last thread and see if one of those people that are so happy with Lawton will buy your action. ( that is if you can get them to be honorable enough to try to make it right. )

Second, I would have someone who could drop by un announced, and demand to see work to see if it was done if not get money back.

Third, Call ups because the last excuse Lawton made was it took 12 days to deliver that guy's actions.( but of course that was b/c of Christmas.)This time it is probably b/c of Chinese new year.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jason, Bank of America gives you 6 months to file a dispute (charge back) so each bank is different.</div></div>

Just FYI, maybe your card is different, but here's what my BOA information says...just looked on their FAQ page.

What is a credit card dispute?
If you believe that a credit card transaction has been posted to your account in error, you may submit a credit card dispute. You must write to us within 60 days of the statement date on which the transaction appears. On your behalf, we will research the transaction with the merchant and their bank and contact you with the results. We will do everything we can to help resolve a dispute in a timely and thorough manner.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

If you give them a deposit, or any company for that matter and they begin work... you might see a charge for time spent on project and materials used.

I used a gunsmith not to long ago that I had to cancel the build because he couldnt stay honest with me about cost of parts. He charged me $150 for time spent on it. I told him that was fine and to send me all my stuff back. He delayed me for weeks until my lawyer called him and said your looking at a lawsuit, travel to KY, and my clients legal fee if you do not comply.

Lawton has always done as promised for me. But then again I only deal with Bobby.

good luck
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

It's good to see who I won't be dealing with for future builds not to mention any of my friends if I can help it. Sorry to hear that your going through this crap.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYSHOOTER338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But then again I only deal with Bobby.
</div></div>

A lot of good that has done for about a dozen of us.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Well hrmm..

I have nothing but good things to say about lawton =( Appearently this isnt the thread for me. they make a great quality product especially for the size of the outfit. From the top down everybody I have delt with has been unbelievably helpful.

Im sorry you had a bad go this round, but I dont think this is the norm for lawton. (at least any more than any other business ive seen.)

Just my 2c.

Email [email protected] and perhaps you can get to the bottom of your issue?

 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

I think it was announced on another forum,the employee botching this up was fired and that are addressing the problem.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it was announced on another forum,the employee botching this up was fired and that are addressing the problem. </div></div>

Don't take this the wrong way, but all of use who have had trouble have heard that firing before.

First it was the old secretary, then some jackass working the floor, etc.

This coming from Jackson and Bobby who say they "inspect" each order before it goes out the door
smirk.gif
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP

They have my money also for a rifle that was to be done sept 2010. I did have contact with them in Nov and they had gone under, but were trying to get going again.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYSHOOTER338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But then again I only deal with Bobby.
</div></div>

A lot of good that has done for about a dozen of us.

</div></div>

Ya well I learned the hard way. I will never use them again.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP

Add me to the the list wondering where my job is? I sent them my action Lawton 8000, brux barrel and other items for a build I owned would this change anything? I got a response in late December suggesting they were waiting on the HD stock from XLR industries that was late. Who knows where do I go from here? Thanks for any suggestions. I can hunt down my serial # from my FFL who got it in for me in the first place. Thanks PG
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP

I am also in your boat. I sent them money for the 8500 receiver and barrel back in June. Everytime I call them, they say it is only "two more weeks" from being finished and give different excuses as to what is holding it up. It has been 8 months for an order that was supposed to be finished in 2-3 and I am still waiting. I actually talked to Bobby once and he said that it would be "another week or two," but this was back in October. Are they still taking orders? I have read threads where people have placed orders and received them since the time I ordered mine, but it seems that there are a lot of people who are in this situation. I have had a Manner's stock and Badger bottom metal ready for 6 months now.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP

WOW - I just realized the OP was done over a year ago.

A year later, same BS stories from people.

Good luck all of you.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Same boat here - deposit given January 2010. Last contact October, 2010. Forget my deposit, I just want the custom Manners stock I had drop-shipped!
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Hi i juat want to clarify some things here if you want to get anything done at lawton Machine call and talk to Jackson. Bobby no longer works for them. Bud Williams has purchased the buisness and now has Jackson as the manager and Bobby had a hand in some of the issues that were coming up.

I feel for you if you can call and ask for Jackson and see where it all stands he would then have to pass the info back to Bud and try to get more money inputed into the buisness or use money they have there to fix you up. I know that they are now Only working on actions if they can and some specilised large calibre barrels as they just dont have the trdesmen there to work. the last batch of actions we recieved last week were the best we have ever recieved they were awsome.

They were close to going under i believe because of issues and hopefuly they have cleared that up and can move forward but these issues from when the other workers were there are still coming up and i am sure it is driving them mad because they want to please their customers and also keep trading.

Cheers Bill
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Wild_Bill

What kind of actions did you order and when did you put the order in?
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Hi there were lots from 7000 to 8000 and every configeration they have been on order for 6 months i would say they got here and are the best we have recieved yet. a lot of custom things on them aswell
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

The Lawton 7000 action in my GAP Crusader has been a great performer.
I think if you can get your stuff from them you will be pleased with it.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Get your stuff from them, then have a reputable smith put it all together. Their gunsmithing is a joke.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Kinda related; I gave Surgeon a deposit on a build; $2000 to be exact. After a few months I ran into some financial issues and called Surgeon and told them that I couldn't finish paying for it. They were so courteous during the wait and I felt really bad and told them they could keep the deposit or atleast a major portion of it. Guess what; they wouldn't have that. They sent me a full refund along w/ their best wishes hoping things would get better for me! FYI, I don't own a Surgeon and have no ties to them. Preston, Steven and crew are truly first class, I am sorry for your troubles.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

I ordered 2 7000 and 7500 actions last year and got them within 4 weeks. I called them and was very good to deal with. Order 2 barrels and got them in 6 weeks. I don't know really what is going on but they do make a great product.
Nobody is a winner if the legal system in involved. Try a certified letter stating what you would like.
I had a similar problem with a barrel maker that is well known. Order it in Sept and Got in July. Timeline given was 4 to 6 weeks. I kept hearing it would be 2 more weeks. The one barrel is done. Just waiting on the barrel to be made. Called 1 month later and they didn't have neither barrel made. Was told they would send back my deposit. Never did. I know it is a pain it the ass but sometimes it happens. I finally ordered 2 Kreieger barrels and built my rifles. Then 6 months later 2 barrels showed up on my door. Now I had 2 extra barrels. Shit Happens.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

I hear my build is about to be shipped I will be very happy to report to everyone when I have it. Thanks
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

I got my rifle today from Lawton. I am pretty happy and they really didnt take a crazy amount of time they just promised it way to fast in the first place. Their communication after the project got started was very slow to terrible however over the last few weeks they started returning calls and emails to me. I will report in when I have shot the gun a the part that really matters. It did show up with some scuffs through the finish on the new XLR chassis something I am sure many would be mad as hell about. I am not too bothered by it since I will be using it one day and beat it up myself but a new rifle shouldnt be nicked up in several places. I also spent the money to have a huge pelican case shipped to them so it was not shipping related. I hope they are getting back to normal and I really do expect that the rifle will shoot very well. I hope anyone else waiting or wondering will have theirs soon also. PG
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

I talked to them about the same time they told you that your order was almost ready saying that my order was also nearly complete. I am still waiting and cannot get ahold of anyone on email or phone. In another 2 weeks, it will have been a year since I placed my order. I have been holding onto two letters in hope they will pull through (one will be mailed to the Montana Attorney General and another to my state's Attorney General). I have already spent several thousand dollars on a stock, scope, metal etc. in addition to two thousand dollars of mine that Lawton already has. The way things are going there now, even if I did get order, it would likely not be of quality. After all, a company is only as good as the way it treats its customers.

I am glad that some of you have received and are happy with their order, but it seems as though Lawton has stolen my money and has wasted my time. I would never recommend a friend to this company.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

If you file a small claims case against them, you are sure to win. However you may have to travel to their county, but I am not clear on this part.

I would send a certified letter, with tracking. Courts also look at emails. I have been to small claims court a couple of times, and everything is on your side.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

I had my M2008 barreled, chambered and coated from them....

It all look just about 1 year to do. (Twice the quoted time)

They were a royal pain to get ahold of the entire way through.

The end product was not what I ordered.

BUT....It shoots VERY well, and the barrel, chambering and coating (of which there isnt much left) only cost me $300.00

--------------------------------------------------------------
I concider myself lucky to have ever gotten anything back from them.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Status update. July 14th...over 1 year since my money fell into the thief's hands. I still have not heard from them. Better Business Bureau cannot get a reply from them. Montana only allows for small claim suits up to $3,000 and Lawton has stolen much more than this. I have over $4,000 tied up right now. Who else has been taken from out there? I bet Lawton has $100,000 in orders not being made right now. If you are in my boat, send up a post and maybe we can go after Lawton collectively
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Call Dillon, MT Police Dept and tell them whats going on?

http://www.dillonmt.org/directory.html#eo_police

I know your pain, I delt with these guys for quite a while...
I was fortunate to atleast get a response from them some of the time. I cant help but think they are all but done at this point in time.

Best of luck in either recieving your money back or some sort of product and services from them.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Man what a shame they have ruined the great name Barney built up over so many years. PGG
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Jackson Rose has been advertising on LONG RANGE HUNTING trying to sell some receivers in JULY 2011. At the same time they are really late, late,late on my 8500 ss rifle and do not return phone calls or emails...I have sent the registered letter, they have not bothered to sign for it.. Their MONTANA STREET address is no longer occupied per the Chamber of Commerce...I wonder if the Montana AG knows fraud when he sees it ?
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Just a couple of thoughts...

1. Luckily most in the shooting community are good, honest folks. But we all need to be very careful and research any company before we do business to check if other customers have had any problems.
2. Euro Optics ( www.eurooptic.com ) has a "Wall of Shame" posted on their website to try to "help" those who have problems paying their bills. Perhaps Snipers Hide should start a similar listing for companies that have severe problems with customer service and product delivery?

Bryant, I'm sorry for your problems with Lawton and I know the above won't help you, but perhaps your story will be some help to others. Best of luck to you Sir!
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Someone mentioned in an earlier post that the company "almost went under." If they did indeed file bankruptcy, it will be nigh near impossible to get $$$ out of 'em.
 
Re: Lawton Machine will NOT return MY money...HELP!!!

Sounds like a really bad deal all the way. I believe Barney is rolling thunder right about now.
 
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