F T/R Competition LC brass for club level F/TR

chefcam864

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Like most of us, I have been having a time getting components and as such must go with what I can get. I am unable to get Win. or Lapua brass, and most of what I have now is on its last leg. However, I just got 200 pcs of 1x fired LC from Midsouth. I'm sorting it by headspace as I type this. I don't know what most of this was fired from, but it sure wharn't no machine gun. Most of it measures about the same or smaller than what comes out of my bolt gun, and some looks like it it might have been from an M14.(trust me, I know what that looks like) Maybe the snipers train at short range with M80 or something. It's all 2012 headstamp with a few pcs of LR thrown in. Anyways, I know I know it's not ideal, but if I match prep it (turn necks, uniform, deburr, and sort) can it be competitive at the club level? Anyone ever use it to make LR ammo? I've re;oaded tons of the stuff, but it was for my M1A that will only hold about a minute no matter what you do. I'm thinking of working up some loads with 190 Nosler CC's and RE17.

Any thoughts or experience?
Thanks for any input guys. My local range is closed till July and my oppurtunities to shoot are few and far between until then. I just don't have time to waste if you know what I mean.
 

walley2960

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It seems like lower case capacity and not the quality is why some people prefer Winchester. If you can't get what you want, run it? sorry not much help
It would be nice if you could prep some and prove it before your season starts.
 
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chefcam864

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I wonder what cas capacity is compared to lapua... I've measured necks on both, and there's not much difference. They're pretty close in weight too
 

JWV

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I wonder what cas capacity is compared to lapua... I've measured necks on both, and there's not much difference. They're pretty close in weight too

Put each case on a scale and measure how much water it will hold. I do believe on accurate shooter older LC 223 brass had a very large capacity.
 

chefcam864

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That is correct. LC 5.56 brass typically has larger case capacity than its civilian counterparts. However, the 7.62 brass is whole other can of worms...
 

George Az

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Using water measure the internal capacity. One is trying to measure what the case can hold. I am in the same boat as you and my buddy turned me on to some once fired L/C a little older. I am cleaning it, checking for OAL, primer pockets - internal and external and going to shoot it. Chrono it and watch your primer pockets. I will probably do a small form of the "ladder" on grains from minimum to mid point on my manuals. I never run near max anyway. Brass in hand in worth more than being on a waiting list.
 

chefcam864

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Using water measure the internal capacity. One is trying to measure what the case can hold. I am in the same boat as you and my buddy turned me on to some once fired L/C a little older. I am cleaning it, checking for OAL, primer pockets - internal and external and going to shoot it. Chrono it and watch your primer pockets. I will probably do a small form of the "ladder" on grains from minimum to mid point on my manuals. I never run near max anyway. Brass in hand in worth more than being on a waiting list.

"Brass in hand is better than being on a waiting list..."
More true words have never been spoken, good sir.

I sorted them all by headspace last night( put aside everything over 1.624" for M1A use) sized them all and set head space about .003" over what I want to have in the end. Next ill deburring, uniform, trim, and turn necks. Once all that is done ill sort by weight and start loading. Gonna go with a 190 Nosler CC and RE17. Hopefully it doesn't turn out to be a waste of time.
 

Ol Rob

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I have run the LC LR for many years. Weight sorting the LC will be the key. If you can get it full length resized to go into your chamber you will be fine. Due to its thickness you will find it will be brittle after a few firings. You will need to bend a wire and check the inside for case head separation signs after 4 or five firings and sizings. Mine did fine until it wore thin from sizing. Neck tension can get inconsistant if you don't anneal. I don't.
as always YMMV,
Rob
 

chefcam864

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I loaded some 190's over RE17 in match prepped LC brass today. I went in .5 gn increments from 44.0 to 46.5. The results were abysmal... Nothing was under 1.5" @ 100yds. Velocities looked good, but there is very little satisfaction in shooting a terrible group and knowing the SD was 7. I think I got up around 2650fps at 46.5gn. That's a pretty good clip for a 190 in a 308.
I'm not sure what the problem is, but I doubt it's the brass, as I've had good results with LC in my M1A. I think the 190 might be a bit too much for my 1:12" bbl. I'll work up a few more loads with 4064 & RE15, but at this point I have little faith.
Just to make sure it wasn't me, I shot 4 rounds with my go to load of RE17, 178 A-Max, Fed 210(M), and match prepped Win brass. It wasn't me or the rifle...

C0C9F1A9-634F-4997-ADEB-D296352292A0-3928-00000443ADF83E7D.jpg

That's 3 rds through 1 hole. The group at bottom left was a load I was working on with a 155 Palma(2156) and Benchmark. I'm not sure Benchmark is gonna work for me in 308. It's Fantastic in 223 though.

Any Ideas about my twist rate and the 190's? Anything else jump out at you that could cause such poor results? I really hope I can make them work because I have a 250ct box of them.
 

jasper1573

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I will tell you that if you want to shoot long range, that 1:12 twist barrel isn't sufficient to stablize a 190 grn bullet. I shoot 175 matchkings and 178 A-Max in my 1:11.25 twist and I could shoot 180 grn bullets, but nothing heavier out past a few hundred yards.

Recommend you drop down to 175s with some 4064 or Re-15. the 1:12 twist should stabilize those bullets at least out to 600 yards, or even farther.

There are other choices in bullet and powder, but you mentioned these before.

Concerning the brass, I have used a lot of LC brass and pulled 175 matchkings and find that they shoot about 90% as well as the new high cost stuff from Lapua and Sierra. Having said that, I still like to shoot new bullets, but I avoid the high cost brass...the LC works well and lasts a good long while.
 

chefcam864

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I will tell you that if you want to shoot long range, that 1:12 twist barrel isn't sufficient to stablize a 190 grn bullet. I shoot 175 matchkings and 178 A-Max in my 1:11.25 twist and I could shoot 180 grn bullets, but nothing heavier out past a few hundred yards.

Recommend you drop down to 175s with some 4064 or Re-15. the 1:12 twist should stabilize those bullets at least out to 600 yards, or even farther.

There are other choices in bullet and powder, but you mentioned these before.

Concerning the brass, I have used a lot of LC brass and pulled 175 matchkings and find that they shoot about 90% as well as the new high cost stuff from Lapua and Sierra. Having said that, I still like to shoot new bullets, but I avoid the high cost brass...the LC works well and lasts a good long while.

Thanks Jasper, that's what I wanted to hear. My go to load is a 178 A-Max over RE17 and Win brass. It shoots lights out at short range(300). I'm going to Butner next week to shoot the practice on Wednesday. I'll find out for sure where I stand after that. I've never shot LR, so I'm excited to see how my rifle and I can do. I was worried about the twist when I ordered the 190's, but I can't find anything else. Grafs has 168 and 175 blems, but they're not much cheaper and it's a crap shoot to boot.