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LE shoot in Aurora,CO

Foul Mike

Foul Mike

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 18, 2001
3,082
4,909
Eastern Colorado
#1
I am not going to post an opinion just yet as I have not heard the FACTS from both sides.
However it seems like there was a LE vs Homeowner using a handgun to kill an intruder in his house attacking his Grandson and he busted a couple of caps. When the Police got there and all was said and done, the Homeowner is now dead, shot by the Police inside of his home.
LE arrived after or during the shooting and I don't know how it went down, but the Homeowner was shot and killed by Aurora PD after he killed the perp attacking his Grandson inside of his home.
It is a real Shit Sammich and very few FACTS are coming out on the local News and Aurora PD has not put forth anything other than the shooting took place and the perp and homeowner are dead.
The Attorney for the family of the Homeowner is putting it out that the Police shot him from outside of the house while he was inside but I don't know that to be a FACT. Take that with a grain of salt.
It is such a sad thing and as I said before, I don't have the FACTS but it looks to be a major fuckup by LE, but they are not saying shit until they have it all together. I will wait for the FACTS.
There are many "Homeless" looneys in that area so that may be a factor.
Either way, I pray for the Homeowner's family and also for the Cop who busted caps.
"IF" it was a bad shoot, that LEO will live with that for the rest of his life and I know that is not easy. FM
 
#3
Perfect examples of why I retired after 25 years. If people actually knew how many "bad" officers are out there they would be scared to death. You should try to FTO these pieces of garbage that are coming out of the academy which is where the issues start. There are still some really good officers out there but they are fewer every day.
 
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#4
Last edited:
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#7
Both those cases are pretty messed up and the more you read the more unkind things you want to say.

However I think in the end, in both cases, the LE personnel responsible for killing the innocent hostage and the hero veteran who had just saved a child from a monster will walk away with nothing but a slap on the wrist & nothing will change and the taxpayers will be asked to foot the civil bill for yet another killing.

More apologists will go on about "just a few bad apples" and nobody will do anything to get rid of the bad apples and then the cycle will repeat the next time.
 
#8
I concur.
No feet held to the fire and likely a bad cop still out on duty to sully the good ones.
Too many "slots" filled by people not good for the job.
Fill that Academy up and very few if any fail.
It is hard to find good cops, but they are out there.
They are the ones that need to thin the ranks of people not suited for the job but their hands are tied also.
Bean counters rule.
 
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#9
Too many arm chair QBs don’t go to work for the departments. They have bad cops because who in their right frame of mind would go be a cop when everyone, including the “good guys” hates them. Just about every department is hurting for people to willingly go to work in the gutters of society. Yes there are bad cops. Yes shit happens. So, you tell me if you “good guys” want things to change. What the F*** are you going to do about it? Ahhh yes, crack open a cold one and warm up your typing fingers. lol.

Yes he should be suspended, pending investigation, and most likely fired, but how do you turn this around?

All it takes for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing.

Enjoy your beer.
 
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#10
Unfortunately for us older gents, we are a dieing breed.... those bad apples are slowly replacing us. When our generation is gone, FM, W54, Gf14, those bad apples will be in total.

Cant change the march of time.

However, the "good" ones still in service do need to train their replacements, and for our grandchildren, we, FM. W54, Gf, et al, must hope, there are some who will retain "our" values and continue the line. Like Bender....

But, history is a cruel teacher. But, hope remains. Go Bender...
 
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#13
Reading a lot of the posts on here....I agree that it is hard to understand why we " as good officers" are getting out of the profession. We are being forced to train and try to supervise the garbage coming out of the academy. I unfortunately had to charge a officer with official mis conduct after 3 weeks out of the academy and was told that I just didn't understand millennial's. I should of shot the ass hole and saved us all a lot of grief. He has now been fired and it working in a office somewhere. I have been in 2 lethal force encounters in the last year in which I was able to fight my way to a non lethal resolution. If I could hire for the positions, I would not be hiring the garbage that is being hired but the politicians want sheep that will do their bidding with no common sense.
 
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#15
1J04 said:
Wanna real shit show? Here ya go.

LAPD releases video of fatal police shooting of female hostage held at knifepoint


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/0...ooting-female-hostage-held-at-knifepoint.html
Click to expand...
So let me get this straight....they open fire on a guy bc he is holding a knife to a hostage’s neck and saw imminent danger to the hostage, and decide to just put the hostage out of his misery. They are such shitty shots, they cannot hit a fucking 12” target from 5 yards. Burn them all
 
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#17
mijp5 said:
So let me get this straight....they open fire on a guy bc he is holding a knife to a hostage’s neck and saw imminent danger to the hostage, and decide to just put the hostage out of his misery. They are such shitty shots, they cannot hit a fucking 12” target from 5 yards. Burn them all
Click to expand...

What I read this morning was that he had started cutting her throat. IF that is the case then they were damned if they do damned if they dont. It does seem like ONE well place head shot would have ended. Maybe their training doesnt get them to be able to hit a basketball at 20 feet? there is the element of stress, but damn, ONE headshot ....
 
#19
Maggot said:
What I read this morning was that he had started cutting her throat. IF that is the case then they were damned if they do damned if they dont. It does seem like ONE well place head shot would have ended. Maybe their training doesnt get them to be able to hit a basketball at 20 feet? there is the element of stress, but damn, ONE headshot ....
Click to expand...

I’m not questioning the commencement of shooting; rather the careless flurry of rapid fire from 3 guys. I could have personally dropped that guy myself with a double tap and wouldn’t have come close to the hostage (as long as I had the angle of the guy on the left). Yes I said it. We are talking 5 yards, not 25 and that was a cake shot. If you can’t shoot 5 yards under pressure, turn in your badge
 
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#23
Marinevet1 said:
If you shoot someone that is in your house uninvited, and you call the police, or someone else calls the police........DO NOT have a gun in your hand when the police show up..........or this is will be what happens......
Click to expand...

Ding Ding Ding. Winner.

Shit happens in high stress situations, don't stack the odds against yourself by having a gun in hand when the police arrive. Your house or not.

Aurora has bodycams so we'll see what the deal is when that comes out.
 
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#24
Marinevet1 said:
If you shoot someone that is in your house uninvited, and you call the police, or someone else calls the police........DO NOT have a gun in your hand when the police show up..........or this is will be what happens......
Click to expand...

That was my thought. Under trained, inexperienced, officers who react rather than think, but we havent seen a video, that might clear up a lot.
 
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#26
We were doing active shooter training at the local mall with one of the large local agencies.

One of the take aways was this...I don't care if you have your badge out, or whether you scream " POLICE!" or even if you have a bright green fucking vest on with POLICE on it over your street clothes. If you are on your feet, and holding a gun, your chances of being shot are a little better than 50%.

So, if you engage a threat, and are not IMMEDIATELY identifiable as a member of a local agency in uniform. Then as soon as the shootings done, prone out face down and hide that fucking gun under your body and put hands out, then yell," POLICE" over and over. Then you stand a pretty good chance of avoiding being shot by the good guys.

It was a real eye opener, and it wasn't just the under trained patrol guys either. The SWAT guys were guilty too, and they put more accurate rounds on you in the process.
 
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#27
Rthur said:
Fucking tragic....
Only clean shot I saw was the guy on the left.
They got some trigger on.

R
Click to expand...
Went back and re watched it, youre correct, he had good shot placement. The guy in the second camera angle probably hit the hostage in the head. Id hate to be in his shoes tonight.
 
#28
Local news says same officer in Aurora was involved in a deadly in June.

I know Aurora. Depending on his shift, not that hard to imagine that could happen.

And this is shit.

Hopefully we all can learn something.


Waco was BS to show the power the feds had. And killed a ton of people who didnt need to die.
Koresh was a sick puke and could have easily been nabbed in town and then the other goofballs broken up peacefully.
 
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#29
LA shoot was all kinds of bad. No good angle except for one of them who was perpindicularly faced towards the perp. They're going to claim sympathetic discharge. As was said upthread, no shot, no shoot.
 
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#30
Skookum said:
We were doing active shooter training at the local mall with one of the large local agencies.

One of the take aways was this...I don't care if you have your badge out, or whether you scream " POLICE!" or even if you have a bright green fucking vest on with POLICE on it over your street clothes. If you are on your feet, and holding a gun, your chances of being shot are a little better than 50%.

So, if you engage a threat, and are not IMMEDIATELY identifiable as a member of a local agency in uniform. Then as soon as the shootings done, prone out face down and hide that fucking gun under your body and put hands out, then yell," POLICE" over and over. Then you stand a pretty good chance of avoiding being shot by the good guys.

It was a real eye opener, and it wasn't just the under trained patrol guys either. The SWAT guys were guilty too, and they put more accurate rounds on you in the process.
Click to expand...


I was told by Clint Smith one time that the most dangerous thing that kills SWAT Officers is another SWAT Officer.
 
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#31
powdahound76 said:
Local news says same officer in Aurora was involved in a deadly in June.

I know Aurora. Depending on his shift, not that hard to imagine that could happen.

And this is shit.

Hopefully we all can learn something.


Waco was BS to show the power the feds had. And killed a ton of people who didnt need to die.
Koresh was a sick puke and could have easily been nabbed in town and then the other goofballs broken up peacefully.
Click to expand...
Don't even bother, the Waco bullshit is a red herring that cop hating fucks bring up just to stir the shit. That idiot probably wasn't even alive when it happened.

It was 25 years ago, and no cop made the Branch Davidians shoot the women and children with .22LR in the head before setting the place on fire in three separate places. Yes, the FLIR footage is out there showing exactly where the fires started, unless the helicopter was dropping incendiaries on the interior of the compound, the fires were not caused by law enforcement.
 
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#32
Skookum said:
Don't even bother, the Waco bullshit is a red herring that cop hating fucks bring up just to stir the shit. That idiot probably wasn't even alive when it happened.

It was 25 years ago, and no cop made the Branch Davidians shoot the women and children with .22LR in the head before setting the place on fire in three separate places. Yes, the FLIR footage is out there showing exactly where the fires started, unless the helicopter was dropping incendiaries on the interior of the compound, the fires were not caused by law enforcement.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find a lot of people who were alive at the time and rather busy watching the news and the following cover up will probably disagree with your opinion on the matter.
 
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#35
W54/XM-388 said:
I think you'll find a lot of people who were alive at the time and rather busy watching the news and the following cover up will probably disagree with your opinion on the matter.
Click to expand...
I respect differing opinions as long as they are informed. The feds, were poorly led and they do indeed bear the burden for the incident in it's totality. I don't think any reasonable person or officer or agent would dispute that.

It's just that most of the people that bring that shit up, have no idea what they are talking about. It's just an excuse to spread hate and discontent.
 
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#36
DuneBoer said:
78 people died in Waco. In the Oklahoma City bombing, 168 people were killed. Now, if you want to talk coverup or fuckup? Who had the most to gain?
Click to expand...

Philly, as usual, struggles to hold its collective head up. The MOVE firebombing only resulted in 11 deaths, but it hit the jackpot on urban renewal, with 65 burned out rowhomes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE
 
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#37
Skookum
I am well informed.
If you read, I never said who killed them. A different tactic would have kept most of them alive I believe.

I am very pro-police. The good ones. The power hungry, piss the bed, beat on a puppy ones, not so much. And yes, I have known them.

We have all seen many instances of the feds whipping out their Extend-O-Dick to show who is boss.

Do you really think any of us can even start to trust the FBI?........
 
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#39
DuneBoer said:
I was told by Clint Smith one time that the most dangerous thing that kills SWAT Officers is another SWAT Officer.
Click to expand...
Paul Howe wrote about coverups he knew about in the military and LE. Lots of fratricide is hidden.
Skookum said:
Don't even bother, the Waco bullshit is a red herring that cop hating fucks bring up just to stir the shit. That idiot probably wasn't even alive when it happened.

It was 25 years ago, and no cop made the Branch Davidians shoot the women and children with .22LR in the head before setting the place on fire in three separate places. Yes, the FLIR footage is out there showing exactly where the fires started, unless the helicopter was dropping incendiaries on the interior of the compound, the fires were not caused by law enforcement.
Click to expand...

Who made them pose with the bodies?
DuneBoer said:
78 people died in Waco. In the Oklahoma City bombing, 168 people were killed. Now, if you want to talk coverup or fuckup? Who had the most to gain?
Click to expand...

162 people and 6 ATF Agents.
 
#40
All right, this is the other predictable result of someone mentioning this shit. The thread goes off the rails. I'm surprised none of the other flashpoint subjects have been mentioned yet. None of this pertains to the original post.

It is virtually impossible to discuss anything law enforcement related on here without it turning into an Alex Jones type shit show.
 
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#41
powdahound76 said:
Skookum
I am well informed.
If you read, I never said who killed them. A different tactic would have kept most of them alive I believe.

I am very pro-police. The good ones. The power hungry, piss the bed, beat on a puppy ones, not so much. And yes, I have known them.

We have all seen many instances of the feds whipping out their Extend-O-Dick to show who is boss.

Do you really think any of us can even start to trust the FBI?........
Click to expand...
I actually think I replied to the wrong post when I quoted you. I don't disagree with you. My apologies.
 
#43
1J04 said:
Wanna real shit show? Here ya go.

LAPD releases video of fatal police shooting of female hostage held at knifepoint


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/0...ooting-female-hostage-held-at-knifepoint.html
Click to expand...


Not nearly enough training provided to handle this.

Id say you get the police services you pay for but thats not true.

You get the police services your elected govt provides funds for and reality is those funds dont buy votes, as a result you dont get the police services you pay for.

There is a lot wrong in that video and much of it goes back to training.

I can only "critique" them from the comfort of not having a 10000 percent Adrenalin dump and being in the chaos of the moment. Everyone knows what to do from the comfort of their couch.

The horror of this event, as well the other one, requires a stress inoculation no standard field officer likely gets the exposure to.

In both cases I imagine there is an otherwise good guy that will second guess the rest of his life and wake up daily wishing they could recover one split second moment in time.

Every one of us has some moment in our lives that we wish we could get a do over on. Most of them are stupid issues which really brought no great harm to us or others.

This though, this will nag and burn at every moment of the day.
 
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#44
pmclaine said:
In both cases I imagine there is an otherwise good guy that will second guess the rest of his life and wake up daily wishing they could recover one split second moment in time.

Every one of us has some moment in our lives that we wish we could get a do over on. Most of them are stupid issues which really brought no great harm to us or others.

This though, this will nag and burn at every moment of the day.
Click to expand...

I can only say that I hope so. Sadly, the hostage doesn't appear to have been from a community known for raising a politically injurious hue and cry.
 
#45
Aurora will be making a statement later today. They're anxious to get this out to the public.

This was the monster he killed while attempting to drown his 11 yo grandson.

Dajon-Harper1-e1533174655732.jpg
 
#48
Respectfully McLaine,
The voting record proves "certain areas" get the government service they settle for. And the number of bad incidents from those areas is much greater than the numbers in fly over America.

The FOA areas that hold gov accountable and whose citizens are generally independent and self sufficient, have a much higher level of serve in the "protect and serve" sector.

Training is accountable areas is there. And is notable in the reported incidents.

Those areas not accountable are models of failure, cities in receivership, under decree, highest crime levels, gov officials charged with crimes, ad nauseam....

Many of your posts and MCameron's delineate their shortcomings better than I can articulate. You two have nailed the sources of the problems many times on the board.
It is what it is. You and GF are both correct.
Ymmv....
 
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#49
pmclaine said:
But this isnt what the public settles for.

They want more.

Your elected officials wont provide it.

Typical officers want training.

Its not provided.
Click to expand...
The public settled for the tics, who settled for the chief, or sheriff the public elected. The aforementioned settled for those who train those, behind the badge. When you have to lower your recruitment stds to fill a slot, it's never ending circle jurk. In the case of the home owner, bottom line finish the gun fight before the cops show up, when they do don't have a gun in your hand no matter who you are. The hostage got shot most likely because they (le)were just filling a slot. I doubt many warm bodys could pass a true psyc eval (Se) or quick reaction test (QRT) if they had to, setting at a table drinking coffee. Let alone under real stress.
 
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#50
j-huskey said:
Certain segments of society get the violence they allow and enable. They get the enforcement levels they vote in, and wallow in the shit.
Those on the fringes of those elements get splattered by the shit overflow.
Some live far enough away from it they arent touched by it and are indifferent to it.
Some live far enough away from it, and live differently, holding accountability and responsibility up.

Those who enable dont mix well with those who hold accountability. The indifferent dont mix with or like either of the other two.

Those who get splattered, get hurt by the violence, the indifference, and to a degree, the failure to mix with those who demand accountability.

Back then, when society as a greater whole demanded accountability and taught it in the education system....... Ahhh, those days are gone.....

At some point, a certain segment of society is going to have to demand accountability and responsibility of their own ..... for and by their own....

Another part of society trying to do it for them, historically has proven to fail.
It's on them.
And the truly innocent get splattered. History repeats itself.
Click to expand...

This fits here too...
 
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